[Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

[jrsthethird]

Any fat will due for what I proposed; BSK, Jotun Grunt, Goyf, KotR.. I'm sure other 4+/x creatures. The idea is just that having something that wails on your opponent and can be plowed for value has treated me well next to the regular "SoLaS or Jitte, equip, lol you lose" that gets burn a reasonable amount of the time.

KotR was especially effective since I'd waste myself to avoid Price a reasonable amount of the time, so Plowing my 6/6+ was *very* effective. Goyf is only ok for this purpose; but he also starts swinging a turn earlier and spreads your manabase less thin so you can avoid price. I think your list with a Karakas, 3 KotR, -1 Souls, -1 Drana, -1 something would have reasonable combo game against S&T/Reanimator while beefing up Burn. I think Sculler is also reasonable against Burn, but the Blazing cards they added last year really hamper it from being reliable unless you take one of the blazing card (lol)

I do miss playing with KOTR. He was such a boss 5 years ago. That does open up the option for a mini-land toolbox with Pendelhaven and Horizon Canopy with Bojuka Bog in the sideboard.

Also, looks like I dodged the Burn matchup for the semifinals so I'm playing Miracles again. :D

[tescrin]

I do miss playing with KOTR. He was such a boss 5 years ago. That does open up the option for a mini-land toolbox with Pendelhaven and Horizon Canopy with Bojuka Bog in the sideboard.

Also, looks like I dodged the Burn matchup for the semifinals so I'm playing Miracles again. :D

I always had mixed results with Bojuka Bog. Sometimes it was good; but it's probably better just having real gravehate that has crossover. Bog served me better against Delve decks, Lands, Jund, and opposing KotR decks; but didn't feel very good (REALLY slow) against Dredge or Reanimator other than accidentally having it naturally and making them restart; but even then.. I'm not so sure.

I like the card in theory, but it's a lot better in Crop Rotation decks since it's instant speed T1, instead of in KotR decks where it's instant speed T3/T4.

[Offensive_username]

Hey guys, I was just wondering if anyone here has tested Karlov of the Ghost Council in a gBW DGA shell yet? The incidental DRS and Jitte activations could potentially make it bonkers...

Something I was brainstorming, but haven't tested yet (61 cards still, manabase may be wonky):

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Dark Confidant
3 Karlov of the Ghost Council

3 Lingering Souls
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Cabal Therapy
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Vindicate
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Abrupt Decay

1 Batterskull
1 Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Feast and Famine

4 Scrubland
4 Wasteland
4 Marsh Flats
2 Windswept Heath
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Forest

Thoughts?

[Mr. Safety]

There is definately synergy, but what are you gaining? The cost is good at two mana but if you're activating jitte, solas, or slamming with bskull you're already doing well. I always pictured dga as an equipment deck that uses dorks that provide advantage, ie it doesn't need a goyf to work it has equips to put soul tokens, bob, mystic over the top as threats.

I think testing is great but I'm a bit skeptical. Without evasion or trample this guy will be big but potentially dissapointing. Let us know how it works. I've toyed with the idea of other synergistic adds like Athreos, vizkopa guildmage, high priest of penance, orzhov charm. They all seem to be worse than tidehollow sculler (disruption on legs, another equip target) or something at a higher mana cost (elspeth, sorin of some flavor, hero of bladehold.)

[tescrin]

Hey guys, I was just wondering if anyone here has tested Karlov of the Ghost Council in a gBW DGA shell yet? The incidental DRS and Jitte activations could potentially make it bonkers...

Something I was brainstorming, but haven't tested yet (61 cards still, manabase may be wonky):

4 Hymn to Tourach <-
2 Abrupt Decay

1 Batterskull <-
1 Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Feast and Famine <-

4 Scrubland <-
4 Wasteland <-
4 Marsh Flats
2 Windswept Heath
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Forest

I think you'll need more synergies than that or you'll be playing less optimally. Additionally, what makes him better here than just goyf? You already have access to 12 sources of green including basic forest? Is he better than KotR here? A worriesome point is Karlov promotes suboptimal plays that could result in you skewing your lines for bad things, as in, gain life from DRS to pump 2, they then remove Karlov and never take the extra 2 that DRS could've done. Same with Jitte counters.

Either way, I highlighted what I thought you could trim (even though I think 61 in non blue decks is fine):
-4 Equips is never kosher
-4 of the same Dual is rarely Kosher (I'd rather have a 3/1 with a fetch.) Drawing 3 of the same land sucks
-4 Hymns is a bit OTT because discard (especially Hymn) quickly hits diminishing returns.
-A lot of people run fine on 21 lands. IMO, I've hit a rocky road recently where my 21 lands has started to bite me; though I'm adding more cheap library manipulation to fix it. (Trying Mirri's Guile over Library since I have a lot of 2-drops.) At 61 cards, I could add "half a land" by trimming the 61st card; which is to say; I use it as a way of dividing between my desired land counts
-I think Karlov is best next to Scooze, and probably best as a 2-of


I think the way I'd do that list would be:
-16-
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Dark Confidant
2 Karlov of the Ghost Council <-
2 Scavenging Ooze <-

3 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Cabal Therapy
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Hymn to Tourach <-
3 Vindicate
3 Lingering Souls

1 Batterskull
1 Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
<-

-22-
3 Scrubland <-
4 Wasteland
4 Marsh Flats
2 Windswept Heath
3 Verdant Catacombs <-
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Forest

[jrsthethird]

Lost to Miracles in the Source tourney; had mana/tempo problems games 2 and 3 and he hit Entreat every game. Vent did some work with a SOFI game 1 though, which was pretty awesome. Not bad for throwing a pile together the night before.

[tescrin]

Lost to Miracles in the Source tourney; had mana/tempo problems games 2 and 3 and he hit Entreat every game. Vent did some work with a SOFI game 1 though, which was pretty awesome. Not bad for throwing a pile together the night before.

I would expect your list to be favored outside of lucky mid-game entreats. lol@activate + equip; but dealing 6 a turn is no joke. What does your side look like? (basically make sure you have access to Choke, a Pithing Needle effect (probably actual needle), some number of Decay and/or Engineered Explosives, and I like bringing in Bridge against them (Prowess limited to instant speed castings or they can't attack if you're hellbent, and Angels are big.)

If doing that you/I should be fine with our batch of recurring evasive beaters to deal with the Jace problem and them with DRS to end it. Keep a good number of enchants post board so you can overload their removal so it hopefully runs dry and you keep Choke/Library/ or blossom on.

[Warden]

...
I think the way I'd do that list would be:
-16-
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Dark Confidant
2 Karlov of the Ghost Council <-
2 Scavenging Ooze <-

3 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Cabal Therapy
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Hymn to Tourach <-
3 Vindicate
3 Lingering Souls

1 Batterskull
1 Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
<-

-22-
3 Scrubland <-
4 Wasteland
4 Marsh Flats
2 Windswept Heath
3 Verdant Catacombs <-
2 Bayou
1 Savannah
1 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Forest

Personally, I'd run green for the DRS ability and abrupt decay. I think Scooze gets borderline cute in the maindeck. I could see him as an inclusion for the 75. Otherwise, you're better off going Maverick with Karlov in the mix.
Thinking about lifegain, is Vampire Nighthawk still playable? I would rather be on BW with some ability to gain life than spread myself too far for conditional lifegain a la Scooze. I love that little 1G-engine-that-could, but he seems inappropriate here.

[jrsthethird]

I would expect your list to be favored outside of lucky mid-game entreats. lol@activate + equip; but dealing 6 a turn is no joke. What does your side look like? (basically make sure you have access to Choke, a Pithing Needle effect (probably actual needle), some number of Decay and/or Engineered Explosives, and I like bringing in Bridge against them (Prowess limited to instant speed castings or they can't attack if you're hellbent, and Angels are big.)

If doing that you/I should be fine with our batch of recurring evasive beaters to deal with the Jace problem and them with DRS to end it. Keep a good number of enchants post board so you can overload their removal so it hopefully runs dry and you keep Choke/Library/ or blossom on.

No Choke, that's one I forgot to include. He hit the Entreat every game, which was super annoying. I had Revoker (Needle probably better), 4 Decay main, no EE or Bridge. I honestly didn't think of EE against Entreat until now (also great vs. Mentor, but neither of the lists I played against had him).

The finals ended up being Miracles (dsck, who knocked me out) vs. Mentor Miracles. Grabbing Top 4 for a deck I cobbled together the night before the event is something I'm completely satisfied with. I started picking up some pieces in trades and will work towards building this long-term.

[sdematt]

If you're considering running Nighthawk, why not run Drana and pump all yo' dudes. Amiright?

-Matt

[tescrin]

I honestly didn't think of EE against Entreat until now (also great vs. Mentor, but neither of the lists I played against had him).

So.. sort of. EE is OK but you have leave up mana all the time. It's an out, but most of the time they instant-speed their angels EoT and you just die. I've played with EE a lot over time, even maindecking them instead of Plow in a weird build that was aiming to avoid 2-drop permanents so I could maximize EE against the opponent. (Souls, Knight, DRS, Bob, something as threats)

EE is mostly there as Decay #5 in that MU (you can pay the colors to 2 colors, then use the rest of your mana to overload the CMC, making it difficult for Balance to find a card. Same goes for GSZ.) The fact it works against both is neat, but try not to predict what's going on, as they'll play around it while you tax yourself for 2 every turn.

EDIT: @Matt
I don't think Drana or Karlos Mencia are good enough.

[Warden]

If you're considering running Nighthawk, why not run Drana and pump all yo' dudes. Amiright?

-Matt

VNH has lifelink. Unless I read the card wrong, Drana does not. She's crazy attractive for token strategies though (Lingering/Blossom/Sorin lists). She's also a legend, which would complicate on the Karlov-abusing idea

[maharis]

Just FYI, I just noticed that we missed the 10th anniversary of this thread/deck by a few days. The thread started on 11/15/2005, and the GP where Pikula got second was two days earlier.

Kind of interesting to think about some tech from the old days, like Cursed Scroll or Gerrard's Verdict. I've played Cursed Scroll, it can be good sometimes, but I think Top is just better as a way of turning on the top of your library.

[jrsthethird]

I miss Gerrard's Verdict. So outclassed anymore. No other card like Cursed Scroll though.

[tescrin]

I miss Gerrard's Verdict. So outclassed anymore. No other card like Cursed Scroll though.

Cursed scroll seems quite usable; it's just that it basically takes a creature slot and often you have to wait until T4 to do anything with it. I loved it in the Pox shell, but until we start running Small Pox, it's a bit difficult to take the patience to work it in.

That said, it may be fun to brew a tiny bit with DGA + Smallpox (using Souls, Bitterblossom, and/or Bloodghast to support it next to Liliana.) It feels pretty good when you miss your T1 play, they do something like "USea Delver go" or "Plains Mom, go" and you wipe them while dumping a Ghast/Souls in the grave.

Ah Christmas Land, why do I envy you so?

[Megadeus]

A BW Pox build with Flagstones and Urborgs is probably a lot of fun. I enjoyed it with myth realized in modern

[tescrin]

A BW Pox build with Flagstones and Urborgs is probably a lot of fun. I enjoyed it with myth realized in modern

As I recall, there was a build like this a year or two ago that had a reasonable sized Top 8; whenever it was that TNN was the hot new thing and everyone was trying to run 3-drops that were "invulnerable", other capitalized on it between Jund Depths and random pox/etc.. brews.

[Wilkin]

Played at scg jersey. 0-3 drop. Ugh. Managed to cash at every scg event until now. Lost to miracles, loam and elves. Played a few win a box tournaments, splitting one of them to somewhat salvage the day.
Got to test out Gideon vs miracles at a win a box. It's awesome. Making it 3 abrupt decay in board now.

[Ganfar]

Hey guys. It seems Painfully Truth is good in three color decks, so can we play it as well?

Right now I don't know what to cut for one Painfull. I don't want my curve to be higher but ZP seems to be the card to cut, if the meat is not pyromancer and elves.

4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Thoughtseize
3 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Zealous Persecution
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Lingering Souls
2 Mirran Crusader
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Batterskull
4 Marsh Flats
3 Verdant Catacombs
1 Windswept Heath
4 Scrubland
1 Savannah
1 Bayou
3 Wasteland
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Council's Judgment
1 Hero of Bladehold
SB: 1 Nihil Spellbomb
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 Manriki-Gusari
SB: 1 Zealous Persecution
SB: 1 Duress
SB: 1 Maelstrom Pulse
SB: 1 Spirit of the Labyrinth
SB: 3 Hymn to Tourach
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Kor Firewalker
SB: 1 Grafdigger's Cage

[Megadeus]

I'd rather have nights whisper personally and I never even came close to playing that.