how is DnT an issue? Izzet Staticaster, Pyroclasm, Terminus, Mentor, Wear/Tear
you simply drop the "counter" plan because of Aether Vial and Cavern of Souls.. you also play Priest for Renimator and Sneakshow anyway
Last edited by Poron; 01-10-2016 at 08:16 PM.
It can be, yes. W/ our predict build, a lot of matchups where we miss ETA are more difficult, since, well, we don't have ETA =P.Originally Posted by raistlinim
Prioritize your mana development, remove your CB's, and play a 1 for 1 removal game. Predict will pull you ahead enough to trump a lot of stuff. Bring in Blood Moon, if you have it, along with any other creatures in your board. It'll keep you afloat. Thalia+Karakas is usually how we will lose our games so do your best to not have your mana development hindered too much.
Thanks! I currently play a bigger hybrid version and was just curious on the plan. My LGS has both fish and D&T with competent pilots. I do like how smooth the predicts make the deck. (pseudo DTT feel) I top 8ed at the scg Cincy event, placed 7th, but lost to delver because I was too clunky in games 2 and 3. Good luck with taking the deck in a different direction.
I'm quite new to miracle, but allways played self made UWx control decks. I have some random questions for you.
a) Ever tried Baneslayer maindeck ? (2 < copies < 3) The more vial and tempo decks there are, the strongest he is. The more Delver of Secrets there are, strongest he is.
b) Ever tried "annoying cantrips" such as Tsabo's Web, Relic of Progenitus or Nihil Spellbomb maindeck next to a couple of ponders ? (I mean cantrips that annoy opponents)
c) Ever tried lands in the sideboard ? they can be useful to:
i) introduce recursions (artifact + Academy Ruins or Karakas + Legends) vs slow decks
ii) increase land count vs decks aggressive on our manabase (rug or vial decks e.g.).
iii) change your colours post side. For example using a couple o black spells maindeck, and 1/2 red lands + 2/3 red blasts in the side.
d) Ever tried different draw spells other than predict to make a little more of card advantage ? I think of:
Tithe, Painful Thoughts (see above for black), Esper Charm, Trinket Mage with a tool that can be splitted between sideboard and mainboard (for Top, E.E., Relic, Nihil Spellbomb, mana artifact, Voltaic Key etc.)
e) (This is strange) Ever tried changing the miracles block: less Terminus, more Temporal Mastery and Supreme Verdict ?
The two packages have pros and cons, are they ever been tested in comparison (I've never seen a build without terminus but timewalk) ? I don't want to be unkink .. We all know fashon/trend/vogue is part of the metagame and evolutions of a deck.
.. of course all these options in the same deck is impossibile. are some of them viable in your experience ?
A) Baneslayer used to see play in some sideboards, but it can be difficult to get to 5 mana, through wasteland/stifle or waste/port. Tempo then has daze to get through as well. One could very well be dead by the time the angel could successfully hit the board.
B,C,D,E) Relic was played mainboard sometimes during the Delve Debacle, but I don't think it is worth it main anymore. The "established" groupings of miracles are pretty streamlined at this point. 4 Ponder builds, Legends builds, the Predict builds (work in progress from what I understand), the Reid Duke creatureless build (would leave this alone and just let Reid Duke play it) and hybrids of these thereof. Red provides more than black does for this archetype. Terminus is one of the best cards. Temporal mastery is just not good in the deck unfortunately, and some people play some nonzero number of supreme verdicts.
Overall, a lot of the ideas you present have either been explored and dropped or simply not touched because they aren't as good as what is already established. Hope that helps. :)
Actually I was thinking of doing like that
http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=18619&iddeck=141087
- 1 Counterspell - 1 Entreat The Angels + 2 Baneslayer Angel
That is to say - 2 slow cards (vs fast decks) for + 2 slow cards (vs fast decks).
Not allways a cc5 creature is slower to cast than a non-creature spell vs U-based fast decks (Spell Pierce anyone ?)
this is interesting: http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=18295&iddeck=138293
it has 4 mentors, 4 ponders, 2 tithe, 2 predict, 1 wear//tear maindeck
I wouldn't call it "creatureless build" but "the turn-4 Jace build"
For sure. Red Blast are so important. But they are sideboard cards.
I am pondering if something like that is smart or not:
4 Flooded Strand
1 Marsh Flats
1 Arid Mesa
2 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
4 Island
2 Plains
3 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
1 Swamp
4 Brainstorm
3 Ponder
4 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Jace, The Mind Sculptor
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Monastery Mentor
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 Tasigur, The Golden Fang
4 Force of Will
3 Counterbalance
2 Thoughtseize
4 Swords To Plowshares
3 Terminus
1 Council's Judgement
Sideboard ( I guess )
1 Mountain
1 Academy Ruins / Karakas
1 Volcanic Island
1 Plateau
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Blood Moon
1 Wear//Tear
1 Entreat The Angels
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Pithing Needle
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Extirpate
so that we can play our strong red spells g2 (if needed)
but chose if we want UWR, UWB or UWBR
the "cost" is to use 2/3 sideboard slots to change colours
Thank you
If you are going esper I can't think of a reason not to run at least 2 Painful Truths.
don't know yet which cards to take out
I'll find room for sure
sorry guys, I might be not the best of the thread.. but weren't we thinking of Esper just for Massacre and Vindicate?
They gave us Counci's J. for Vindicate, so the only playable Esper card is Massacre (which is absolute great anyway...) and you're not playing it?
Streaming Mackan's version of Predictable Miracles for the 7 pm daily!
twitch.tv/minnifer
The only way dnt can win is vial and cataclysm. Keep all fows, lol. Board out cb an that's it.
infact!! if you counter Cataclysm and you have Priest/Needle on the battlefield how can you lose?
Mentor blocks all
Pyroclasm, Terminus kill all
Staticaster makes a massacre in 2-3 turns and can block as well
Either the DnT players you play against is incompetent or you've simply haven't played the matchup a lot.
The comments in this thread is borderline embarrassing, it's frustrating.
No, we can't lose if we "just counter Cataclysm and vial". No, Terminus + Pyroclasm doesn't equal win.
Sure, if we draw godlike and they don't, and we have everything and they don't the matchup is good. How is that not true for EVERY matchup for every deck?
We draw 3 non-basics, and get wasted/ported to death. We don't have a terminus quick, and no force for their vial and they revoker our top, and we don't have a swords or terminus pretty quick, but instead a lot of blue cards that finds nothing of value. jesus, please be reasonable with your replies.
1. This is the internet, your expectation seems a bit high.
2. Not to pile on,
Once SFM would put SoFI into play, this equipment will present a huge problem down the road, even after you get rid of first wave of creatures.
Assume DnT has Thalia + Karakas going, it's gonna take a lot of resource to deal with that Thalia, and DnT might just drop another one.
When Vial on 2 counters gets activated, you better brace yourself by activating SDT and prepare yourself for the worst, even if the Vial activation could just be a bluff.
Yeah, You might be right. I just hoped people would actually contribute rather than just post random stuff with no real relevance as well as just being downright untrue.
Honestly, if you land a Priest all the techies with Vial just shut off..
that matchup is a matter of priority
1) Priest
2) Izzett Staticaster
2) Mentor
3) Wear/Tear for equipments
if DnT should become a real pain, I will add 1 Staticaster to blow up pretty much everything in that deck which is not Brimaz or Crusader
Pay attention to Cataclysm and drop a Mentor as soon as possible. If it sticks you normally win
yea, I mean, they don't play Stifle so you fetch for basics.. if you manage to block Vial (Needle/Priest) and land a Staticaster (and protect it) you just win normally..
Overall their Equipments are: Jitte, Skull, SoFI
The last 2 just need chump blockers from Mentors (just kill their fliers and you're safe).
The first one is problematic for real and we need Wear/Tear, Judgment and/or Needle on it.
Anyway, we can surely lose games and matches, but hey don't tell me you don't want to see this matchup!
Also this matchup doesn't need Counterbalance that much.. try Serenity for Equips, Revoker and Vials.
at that point
4 StP
3 SnapMage
3 Terminis
1-2 Pyroclasm
1 Staticaster
will they be enough?.. In case you land a Jace, they have 0 removals to it, even Cataclysm does nothing to it...
@ Minniehajj:
Stop trying to make Predict happen..
..It's not going to happen
I've been testing 2 Predicts in 2013 quite a bit and was majorly disappointed. As a matter of fact, it didn't meet my expectations every single time I drew it. And no, Monastery Mentor doesn't justify its inclusion.
On a different note I'd recommend running at least 1 non-creature removal spell along the lines of CJ, EE. You don't want to get blown out of the water by Chalice / Lili / Vial and the likes.
Cataclysm kills Jace.
1) You don't play 4 swords, 4 terminus, 4 snapcaster as well as mentor. If your main plan is mentor as wincon, you usually go for 3 terminus. 4 Snapcaster is usually only played in the Predict lists which, to be fair, is likely very strong on modo, due to a pretty grindy metagame, as well as an overall preference towards blue decks.
2) I even said "Sure, you draw godlike and your opponent draws poop, you are going to win". You all tend to think that you have it all, every game. You don't. You don't always have an active top, a stable manabase (you draw 2 tundras and 1 arid mesa, they draw 2 wasteland) and your manabase is shit then.
Miracles is a GRIND, and as soon as you don't recognize that, you're seriously setting yourself up for failure. DnT is in no way a really good matchup. It can obviously be excellent, if you get a staple manabase, you get to shut off their vial, you get to get them hellbent ie. That's not really true just for the DnT matchup. That's also true for every single other matchup. Miracles is obviously favored in the late-game, that's true for most of the format. Stating that you reach this point by default is just...
*Regarding "You're unfamiliar with the matchup and just spouting shit: They have 0 things against Jace." They have Cataclysm, 4 Revoker, Sword of Fire and Ice (which is always the equipment they go for. They don't ever go for batterskull or Jitte). They have 4 Thalia, 4 Wasteland, 4 Rishidan Port, x (usually 3) Pegasus. Jace is awful in this matchup.
**Regarding Pyroclasm: No1 plays Pyroclasm, so considering it as a staple in Miracles is a stretch.
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