I'm curious why disfigure didn't come in against the 4-color delver deck, since I thought one of the reasons for running it in the SB was for DRS.Originally Posted by nevilshute
Dear stormriders please explain me 2 situations:
1 - Why some players play 3 decays+2 grips instead of 4+1 split?
2 - Vs what kind of decks player(Claudio Bonanni, here is the link http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=19194&iddeck=145893) uses confidants in that sb:
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Flusterstorm
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Massacre
3 Dark Confidant
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Echoing Truth
1 Dread of Night
Krossan gets rid of top without chance.
If you duress them and they have a flusterstoem on top its dificult to win. But you just grip top they loose it forever and then you go off.
Also balance + melddling mage on decay is light out. 2 grip lets you win there.
Dark confidant is good vs miracles and can be ok vs combo since it lets you be very aggressive with discard, but it's risky since you might just die because you played a bob while your opponent plays their combo and wins.
Togores, Narcind, thank you!
I have one more question.
I'm on grinding station (playing 2-3 ToA and 2 pif in main). If i face a classic ANT, will it be right to hit him on 16-18 with ToA on first turn to prevent AdN-combo and ToA-goldfish-up-to-34dmg from his side to buy some more time for collecting my ToA for 2-4 dmg?
Thanks Robert! I'll try and do another one soon :)
Depends on what you're left with afterwards and if you could kill them next turn otherwise. If you can't kill them on your next turn, you probably want to go for it, but that seems like a constructed scenario. If all you have afterwards is like one land, I think you're wasting too many resources. If you have like land on board, cantrip in hand and Past in Flames in your graveyard, it seems good.
Don't mind me, i'm just writing about Pauper these days: theweeklywars.wordpress.com
deckstats.net archive
Thank you!
Enjoyed the videos! Thanks for the links.
Are you still running Empty in the maindeck? How has it been working out for you so far? I've been finding that I use it pretty rarely now, so I'm wondering how often it's been coming up and how often it's been working.
https://youtu.be/s9Ldlusw63Q?t=1m58s
I like what you did there, this is the most valuable out of the 31 mins, if Ad Nauseam was SDT it's even more interesting
to add to the question - isn't Grim Tutor better running EtW or are you just sure DP is better?
Thanks for watching! Yes, still running Empty in the main deck. I think it's damn near impossible to properly assess it as there are just too many variables. Even if I were to a: determine what constitutes Empty being successful in a game and what doesn't and b: record my findings over a prolonged period of time and see how often Empty is being successful more so than not. These variables include different matchups, different builds, different levels of my different opponents, my own mental constitution at different times while playing.
So having said that we're back at looking at our feelings based upon experiences; gut feeling; intution and whatever. I really like Empty. It feels to me like it often does a lot of heavy lifting. I will have spells of like several game sessions where I don't use it and if such a spell runs for a long enough amount of time my faith in the card might lessen and I might decide to try and cut it. That said I'm still liking it a lot.
You are refering to playing into a potential wasteland? And how does AdN being top enhance this?
I'm honestly not sure about Grim... I hadn't really considered its difference in application in relation to Empty but you are right in that it is better there as a potential turn 1 play.
I've really enjoyed playing with Dark Petition. It effectively being 1 less mana and also not having the built in life loss just feels pretty sweet. But I've had a lot of success with Grim Tutor in the past and I'm still not completely ready to abandon it.
You probably didn't pay that much attention because of double queueing but imo you chose the least effective play to assemble the combo yet the most effective play to win the game.. it's interesting because vast majority would Island->Preordain which is the most effective in Cantrip order but quite bad in case of this unknown MU... I believe this is one of the things that separate good players from mediocre - thinking in contextYou are refering to playing into a potential wasteland? And how does AdN being top enhance this?
I'm honestly not sure about Grim... I hadn't really considered its difference in application in relation to Empty but you are right in that it is better there as a potential turn 1 play.
I've really enjoyed playing with Dark Petition. It effectively being 1 less mana and also not having the built in life loss just feels pretty sweet. But I've had a lot of success with Grim Tutor in the past and I'm still not completely ready to abandon it.
Unknown Opp might play Miracles, xC tempo, Storm, maybe Shown and Tell for relevant decks because of the Volcanic->Ponder
by Ponder you give the Opponent the incentive to screw up by misjudging the MU - holding back relevant cards and actions or plaing cantrips wrong ... because by Sea->Ponder for 3/4 of the mentioned decks you're first and foremost FoW+Daze tempo deck, only an Ant player would put you on Storm as an equal possibility... even better - you're a deck that has fixed it's hand... so you upped your chances to not get CB slammed on the table T2, Opp cantrip for a Fow but play a threat instead, get dead T2 or Shown and told something ugly... in other words you got time (which should compensate lower quality of Ponder) and possibly much more (not bad if you can realisticaly T2 Ad Nauseam) out of very simple thing and the worst what can happen is a Wasteland+Delver
by Preordain you scream STORM and get the exact opposite of above
by playing a land and passing you get less imo
Ad Nauseam being SDT would be interesting because you can emulate Miracles very well by Island-Ponder, SDT-Tarn or Island-SDT, Tarn (the thing is - would this be more beneficial? I think not) and you aren't pressured to get mana fast by the presence of Ad Nauseam
by Usea+Ponder you do not play the deck but play the game that is why I think it's an interesting/important situation
Hi guys,
I have not played ANT for more than a year now, but I think it's time to count to ten again and kill some people with tendrils.
As far as I can see most of the current successful lists run a different configuration of business/kill spells than I was used to – my last list back in 2014 „only“ included the usual 1 Ad Nauseam, 1 PiF and 1 ToA with 4 preordain as fillers. Reading through the last 100 pages of this Thread (took some hours...), I found some nice inspiration to „update“ my deck but would like to hear your opinion.
With Miracles everywhere it seems just reasonable to get more resilience by running more copies of PiF and/or Storm spells. I really like Pascal Wagners approach to the MU with 2 PiF/ 3 ToA and I definitely want to have at least 3 Tendrils in my 75. But so far I can't see how to get rid of Ad nauseam in the maindeck with so many other combo decks in my local metagame. Have a love-hate-relationship to that card ...
While some SCG guys run Ad Nauseam in the maindeck with 4 cmc4+ spells, I don't like to have more than a maximum of 3 when running it because otherwise I always felt it was quite risky. Dark petition seems to be an interesting addition to the deck, but for now I dont see it in my list.
First thing I would like to know is which of the following different configurations would have the strongest synergy with Ad nauseam in the maindeck:
2 PiF / 1 ToA or 1PiF / 2ToA or 1PiF/1ToA/1EtW ?
Most people seem to prefer the first one.
To draw PiF also offers a lot of strong plays like cantrip chaining or reuse of discard to totally destroy your opponents hand. But I also really like drawing into tendrils against blue decks.
Beside this I would like to test Rain of filth as a „5th dark ritual“ and one copy of chrome mox as an additional initial mana source in the maindeck . Both cards to make Ad nauseam more reliable.
Any experiences with the mox?
I would appreciate your help to get back into stormriding!
I played in the CardKingdom 1K Legacy tournament on Saturday with Storm. Dropped at X-2 after picking up my second loss round 6. Jumping in here mostly to share my experience with Empty and Grim Tutor since they're relevant to the discussion.
Here's the list. Nothing groundbreaking, just a few tweaks from the MKM lists and others that have been doing well.
1 Bayou
1 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
1 Swamp
1 Tropical Island
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Ad Nauseam
4 Brainstorm
4 Cabal Ritual
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Dark Ritual
3 Duress
4 Gitaxian Probe
1 Grim Tutor
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
2 Past in Flames
4 Ponder
1 Preordain
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Tendrils of Agony
Sideboard:
4 Abrupt Decay
1 Carpet of Flowers
1 Chain of Vapor
1 Dread of Night
1 Empty the Warrens
2 Flusterstorm
1 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Xantid Swarm
Ad Naus is still kind of mediocre but I ended up using it a few times. Empty was great out of the sideboard, but I don't think that you can have Empty, 2 Pif, and Ad Naus all in the maindeck, and I think Ad Naus and 2 PiF are better against the maindeck of the field at the moment. I killed D&T with Empty for 14 t1 on the play, won a game against Canadian Threshold, and was generally happy with it.
Grim Tutor was never worse than Dark Petition, and being able to Grim Tutor for a ritual to set up for next turn came up. I still think it's better. That being said, I cut it in about 50% of sideboard games.
I took my losses to Grixis Delver an RUG Delver. The former is a super tough matchup. Early Empty is great, but if their draw is halfway reasonable it's hard to keep up with the combination of discard, graveyard hate, counterspells, and mana disruption. RUG Delver isn't an awful matchup. I wish I had drawn Carpet a couple times but didn't see it. Still not sure if it's good.
1 Dread of Night didn't punish me against the one white deck I played, so why waste slots?I also beat Sneak and Show with only 1 Xantid Swarm. There's less Reanimator and Show and Tell than before, and I think that playing the control game against them is a better plan anyway. Also a ton of the field was Storm so I was very, very happy with Fluster and Surgical.
Languages and dates for every set. For all you true pimps.
the second one is the answer to the question, imo the 1st one is simply not good, as I once said I usually end up with the 1st configuration when I can't let go of AdN in the 75 or want to retry playing it MD but I'd consider it optimal by no means.. I'd not play the Mox unless on 2AdN, RoF experience vary, I'm not a fan but some like it a lot
I've been pretty lucky against the former and I do not feel it as tough so far... nice 1of Sb btw. I was thinking a 1of Carpet 1of Swarm might be an interesting choice after watching some Jamie's MKM action
2 ToA / 1 PiF vs. 2 PiF / 1 ToA is about the same against decks that mostly interact with counterspells, but I think drawing PiF tends to be better against the field so I favor that in the main. The reason is PiF plays through discard much better, and usually is quicker to kill. I like boarding in another Tendrils and / or Empty against counterspell decks though.
Haha thanks! Not going to say it's optimal, but didn't seem terrible. I used all of the cards.
Languages and dates for every set. For all you true pimps.
Sloshthedark, phazonmutant, thanks for your quick replies!
So maybe I just get you wrong, but you say the second one (1PiF/2ToA) has the better synergy with Maindeck AdN but nevertheless you prefer the first one (2PiF/1ToA) when you play AdN MD ? Please explain this!the second one is the answer to the question, imo the 1st one is simply not good, as I once said I usually end up with the 1st configuration when I can't let go of AdN in the 75 or want to retry playing it MD but I'd consider it optimal by no means..
Is the advantage of PiF over in-hand-tendrils against discard still that big with Deathrite Shaman being more present again, especially in the relevant UB Counter+Discard Decks?2 ToA / 1 PiF vs. 2 PiF / 1 ToA is about the same against decks that mostly interact with counterspells, but I think drawing PiF tends to be better against the field so I favor that in the main. The reason is PiF plays through discard much better, and usually is quicker to kill. I like boarding in another Tendrils and / or Empty against counterspell decks though.
I know we can still go the grave loop and play around an active DRS with double tutor, but if we get hit by discard with Shaman in Play there isnt a difference between PiF or ToA I guess. But I got your point, there is still an advantage I have to consider. And concerning additional Tendrils / Empty in the SB I will definitely include 2 additional storm spells in the SB !
the 1 Pif 2Toa has objectively better synergy with AdN, to be clear I don't MD Ad nauseam (I'm mostly on 2Pif 2ToA EtW for more than a year) but I ended up with now so popular setup in times when I forced myself to MD it to try out different MD/SB setups or as a last minute change, I don't like it both theoreticaly and practicaly
Last edited by Sloshthedark; 01-14-2016 at 04:02 AM.
[QUOTE=Sloshthedark;926088]
Could you write your current list please?
[QUOTE=OlegtheSuper;926116]2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island
1 Badlands
1 Island
1 Swamp
4 Polluted Delta
3 Scalding Tarn
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
3 Lotus Petal
4 Cabal Ritual
4 Dark Ritual
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Thoughtseize
1 Duress
4 Brainstorm
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ponder
4 Infernal Tutor
1 Grim Tutor
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Empty the Warrens
2 Past in Flames
2 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Tropical Island
SB: 1 Bayou
SB: 2 Massacre
SB: 1 Karakas
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 3 Abrupt Decay
SB: 1 Ad Nauseam
SB: 2 Xantid Swarm
SB: 2 Pyroclasm
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
the last 3 vary a lot, I have a lot of non-U at the lgs currently, sometimes I have 1CoV, up to 3XS (those are for local tempo special not Miracles), Extirpate or another KG
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