[Deck] 12 Post

[bruizar]

Here's one for u Booze - Sinkhole, countered several yesterday. Don't get me wrong though, i'm not as excited about wail, more so with the new kozilek. Most of the time he draws me a hand and wins me the game, if i get to cast him... Not so good off SnT i think, since i'm low on cards most of the time in UG, which is unfortunate really, since I'm running blue right? However, he is better with top in play.

Does anyone know what to pitch to Koz for 2cmc in UG post, that would be impressive not mehhhh, like wail, trickbind, moment's peace, phyrexian revoker, etc etc is? Something like 2cmc = If an effect causes you to discard ?, you may draw 2 cards or deal 2 damage or gain 4 life or put 2x 1/1 spawns or ... I'm currently running a 0 cmc=2 build so new koz doesn't fit well in there...

Life from the Loam. You dredge him back every turn and helps against land hate. Also helps get back Misty Rainforest and Crop Rotation fodder.

[Blastoderm]

I've played Exploration for 4 years. I've replaced them all with Warping Wail. Never looking back.

Do not use Nature's Claim over Grip. At least, not if you want your spells to resolve past a Chalice, which is kind of a thing in Tezz and Stompy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yea seriously, warping wail looks like the real deal. I think I'll do the same and jam 4!

[TheBoozeCube]

Life from the Loam. You dredge him back every turn and helps against land hate. Also helps get back Misty Rainforest and Crop Rotation fodder.

Loam is pretty bad when you dredge into an original Eldrazi. Sylvan Scrying is a strong 2cmc if you're looking to add more. I jammed 1-2x of those for a little while.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TheBoozeCube]

Is no one playing Oblivion Stone anymore? You should try that if you feel that Blood Moon (or Magus) gives you problems. If you need to consider Abrupt Decay matchups, Perilous Vault is an option, I guess.

I play one in the board, and it is quite handy. The real problem card for me has been Magus of the Moon. Blood Moon is easy to deal with postboard with K Grip. But Magus, less so. I've never had room in my board for cards like Dismember, so the only way I've been able to answer him is O Stone, All Is Dust, or Ugin. With Warping Wail replacing Exploration in my deck, getting to 7-8 land drops vs Stompy seems much less realistic.

But with Warping Wail upping my maindeck game vs combo, it might be feasible to add in a sideboard Dismember or two. My current board is:

4x Mindbreak Trap
4x Sphere of Resistance
1x Trinisphere
2x Surgical Extraction
3x Krosan Grip
1x Oblivion Stone

Not sure what to cut without seeing Warping Wail in action first, but I'm guessing I could stand to lose 1x Trap.

Not sure whether to cut Trini or a Sphere though; Sphere's *much* better than Trini on the draw, but Trini is better overall. I think it will probably come down to whether WW helps me win enough game 1s vs Storm, which will in turn determine how likely I am to be on the play if we go to game 3.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Zotmaster]

The real problem card for me has been Magus of the Moon. Blood Moon is easy to deal with postboard with K Grip. But Magus, less so.

This is exactly what I was complaining about last page I already made some cuts to your board to fit in Dismember, but I'm only running 2 and that sometimes doesn't feel adequate. Oblivion Stone obviously works but it can be killed off and also takes out your artifacts. It might still be the best option but I feel like that's a bit of a tough trade. I'm also thinking of possibly running Beast Within: I sort of feel like I can manage the 3/3 drawback due to the presence of Maze of Ith, and Beast gets rid of hatebears, planeswalkers, and anything else that looks at you funny. I'm going to be streaming a little later today so I think I may give them a whirl: nothing lost with digital cards, right?

[TheBoozeCube]

This is exactly what I was complaining about last page I already made some cuts to your board to fit in Dismember, but I'm only running 2 and that sometimes doesn't feel adequate. Oblivion Stone obviously works but it can be killed off and also takes out your artifacts. It might still be the best option but I feel like that's a bit of a tough trade. I'm also thinking of possibly running Beast Within: I sort of feel like I can manage the 3/3 drawback due to the presence of Maze of Ith, and Beast gets rid of hatebears, planeswalkers, and anything else that looks at you funny. I'm going to be streaming a little later today so I think I may give them a whirl: nothing lost with digital cards, right?

Beast Within does sound intriguing. I will definitely need to test with that. I do like that it takes out all of the core problem cards in Stompy: Moon, Magus, and Chalice. I would gladly see a vanilla 3/3 over any of those things.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Zotmaster]

Beast Within does sound intriguing. I will definitely need to test with that. I do like that it takes out all of the core problem cards in Stompy: Moon, Magus, and Chalice. I would gladly see a vanilla 3/3 over any of those things.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Got some testing in today while streaming. Split 6 games, which is a little disappointing. Still on the fence about Kozilek, the Great Distortion. I had one game against a Loam deck where I used him to fill my hand, then repeatedly used Kozilek, Butcher of Truth to dig for my Emrakul.

Warping Wail keeps getting better and better. Seriously, you guys. Buy four and play them. In the worst case, cut one.

Beast Within was a pleasant surprise today and I think you'll feel the same way since we both run Maze of Ith. Even without Maze, hitting a Young Pyromancer in the absence of a Wail is fantastic because if the Grixis player is able to cast even one instant or sorcery, he's already at parity with the Beast, and any more than that and he'll outstrip the damage the Beast would do to you. With a Maze, though, Beast Within is pure value: it also gets rid of Deathrite Shaman. I'm gonna play it at my LGS tonight and see how it works.

[TheBoozeCube]

Warping Wail keeps getting better and better. Seriously, you guys. Buy four and play them. In the worst case, cut one.

I've been on the fence about trying to fit a fourth in. Mostly because I'm honestly not sure what to cut to make room for it. Unfortunately, I haven't had much of a chance to actually test with it yet (a few games between rounds of drunk EDH aren't the best data). But it sounds like it's exceeding my already-high expectations. Would you say that it's been good enough for you so far that I should seriously look a difficult cut to make room for a 4th?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Zotmaster]

Would you say that it's been good enough for you so far that I should seriously look a difficult cut to make room for a 4th?

And how. Today at my LGS featured the first match where I actually boarded all of them out. I was playing against StifleNaught. That is the first match where Warping Wail actually wasn't good. Here's my list right now:

ARTIFACT
3 Candelabra of Tawnos
4 Expedition Map
3 Pithing Needle
4 Sensei's Divining Top

CREATURE
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
2 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

INSTANT
3 Crop Rotation
4 Warping Wail

LAND
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Cloudpost
1 Eye of Ugin
5 Forest
1 Glacial Chasm
4 Glimmerpost
1 Karakas
2 Maze of Ith
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Vesuva
1 Windswept Heath

PLANESWALKER
2 Karn Liberated
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

SORCERY
4 Ancient Stirrings

SIDEBOARD
4 Sphere of Resistance
3 Beast Within
3 Krosan Grip
3 Mindbreak Trap
2 Surgical Extraction

Obviously, our lists are very similar: yours was very much the inspiration for mine. Our philosophies differ slightly: I value Sensei's Divining Top more than you do, and you value Crop Rotation more than I do. For me, for a card to be a 4-of, I pretty much have to never wish the card was something else. I often don't mind drawing a second Top because then I can draw, or draw and fetch, with abandon and not lose access to card quality. This sort of reasoning is why I'm still running 4 Warping Wail right now: minus an out-of-left-field matchup, I pretty much never regret drawing it. In the worst case scenario, you can always just make a 1/1 idiot with it. That having been said, I can very much see reasoning behind dropping it to 3 copies. But especially in our mono-green lists, with access to Ancient Stirrings I can't imagine a compelling reason to not run at least 3. In other words, I won't tell you sticking to 3 is wrong.

For me, and I imagine for you, most of my list is pretty set in stone. Here are the wiggle spots for me:

1. Kozilek, the Great Distortion. I had a few more games today where he drew me five or more cards. I love the fact that he counters most of the cards that opponents would use to get rid of him. Menace kind of sucks, but it still makes him harder to chump block. He still hasn't been bonkers, and I've still sided him out several times, but I still don't have a great opinion in either direction. For now, he stays until I can have more games with him.

2. Karn Liberated. Karn is in a very weird spot for me. He's colorless. He can win games by himself. He's cheaper than Ugin. He handles things Ugin can't. But there are also several matchups where he just kind of blows. Ultimately, I think Ugin is a touch stronger. At the same time, though, I've had matchups where I boarded out Karns because he sucked and kept Ugin, and there have been matchups where I boarded out Ugins because he sucked and kept Karn (Lands, in particular). Perhaps this is a sign that both planeswalkers are actually fine and I can just trade them out for more appropriate kill spells as necessary.

3. Beast Within. This is what I was alluding to earlier before I went to play at my LGS today. Magus of the Moon is a pain in the ass to kill when you don't have access to blue or red. I like most of the other common matchups in mono-green, but Magus is an asshole. Today, I took out a Magus, a Liliana of the Veil, and a Phyrexian Dreadnought. Is it better than Dismember? I don't know. But with Maze of Ith the card can actually be pretty unfair, and I like that. And hey, it's another 3-CMC spell I can potentially pitch to Kozilek if I keep using him.

The other million dollar question I've been thinking about is whether or not those Karns might actually just be better if they were additional copies of Nulamog. Sure, it's more expensive, but holy shit is the card strong. As always, your mileage may vary.

[Mr. Froggy]

I've been loving my list on MTGO, 3Spheres is killer for the meta I've been facing.

Dryad Arbor might get the boot though, not a card I've been feeling.

Might want an extra Eldrazi. Also noticed that I usually (more often than not) wish for Newlamog more-so than Emmy. His ability to exile is just completely ridiculous.

EDIT: Last 10 matches, 7-3 (not bad for someone who picked up the deck a couple days ago)

[Blastoderm]

Here's one for u Booze - Sinkhole, countered several yesterday. Don't get me wrong though, i'm not as excited about wail, more so with the new kozilek. Most of the time he draws me a hand and wins me the game, if i get to cast him... Not so good off SnT i think, since i'm low on cards most of the time in UG, which is unfortunate really, since I'm running blue right? However, he is better with top in play.

Does anyone know what to pitch to Koz for 2cmc in UG post, that would be impressive not mehhhh, like wail, trickbind, moment's peace, phyrexian revoker, etc etc is? Something like 2cmc = If an effect causes you to discard ?, you may draw 2 cards or deal 2 damage or gain 4 life or put 2x 1/1 spawns or ... I'm currently running a 0 cmc=2 build so new koz doesn't fit well in there...

At two mana I run 2-3 Sylvan Library.

[MechTactical]

Guys thanks for the feedback. Last night you got me thinking about the two suggested cards: Loam and sylvan library. Both felt very strong at 2cmc, as promised. So I took into consideration Booze’s advice on the old eldrazi graveyard triggers and quickly threw together a list without them:

Land (25)
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Cavern of Souls
4x Cloudpost
1x Eye of Ugin
1x Forest
1x Glacial Chasm
4x Glimmerpost
1x Island
1x Karakas
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Tropical Island
2x Vesuva

Artifact (8)
1x Candelabra of Tawnos
3x Expedition Map
4x Sensei's Divining Top

Creature (8)
3x Kozilek, the Great Distortion
4x Primeval Titan
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

Instant (8)
4x Brainstorm
4x Crop Rotation

Enchantment (3)
3x Exploration

Sorcery (8)
4x Life from the Loam
4x Show and Tell

Sideboard (15)
2x Engineered Explosives
4x Flusterstorm
3x Krosan Grip
3x Pithing Needle
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

The Distortion Loam felt very sporty, like it wants to race more than control, with 7 acceleration cards in the MB it is fast, very fast. My hand was never empty and I was just powering through the deck with amazing speed – too fast sometimes as I made many misplays with loam specifically. Exploration felt awesome, since I could avoid drawing it (sensei + brainstorm) or just pitch it to kozilek, even 2 on the board is sometimes fine with loam. Furthermore I am so excited to play exploration in UG, since this is something I wanted to do for a while now.

The build seems very resilient to hand disruption and land destruction, but opens up to graveyard hate – which could be fine as you can use loam aggressively or passively. This also means they have to bring in graveyard hate from SB they previously didn’t have to. In this case you don’t have to dredge that much, right? Or on the other hand dredge it intentionally in response to gy hate?

No emrakul - Most of the time the opponent still takes his turn, when I have kozilek out, but quickly forfeits, when I counter their first or second spell – muahaha. The beauty with loam is that you always have a 2cmc to pitch, just tap sensei or play brainstorm and voila. In any event I usually just beat down with titan and kozilek for the win, which is more than enough – emrakul seems like overkill, although the deck could play a copy of it, as you could avoid dredging it with sensei, right?

In any case I’m not exactly sure what I’m doing here or if the proposed build is balanced enough to be taken seriously. I didn’t play that many matches and I could be wrong about the whole thing and i was just lucky with the hands and draws i got… Looking forward to your valued suggestions and comments.

[maCHOOga]

Warping Wail keeps getting better and better. Seriously, you guys. Buy four and play them. In the worst case, cut one.

One of my LGS had four foils ones so I snap purchased them. Then I opened my two boxes of Oath and got two more foil ones. Does anyone need any foils? I don't need six; but I'll take it as an omen that I should be playing this card!

[MechTactical]

in the mean time i went all in on the lands plan and am testing something like this:

Land (29)
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Cavern of Souls
4x Cloudpost
1x Dark Depths
1x Eye of Ugin
2x Forest
1x Glacial Chasm
4x Glimmerpost
1x Island
1x Karakas
1x Maze of Ith
4x Misty Rainforest
1x Thespian's Stage
4x Tropical Island
2x Vesuva

Creature (7)
2x Kozilek, the Great Distortion
4x Primeval Titan
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

Instant (8)
4x Brainstorm
4x Crop Rotation

Sorcery (7)
4x Life from the Loam
3x Show and Tell

Artifact (5)
3x Mox Diamond
2x Sensei's Divining Top

Enchantment (4)
4x Exploration

Sideboard (15)
2x Engineered Explosives
4x Flusterstorm
3x Krosan Grip
3x Pithing Needle
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

any thoughts?

[mykatdied]

in the mean time i went all in on the lands plan and am testing something like this:

Land (29)
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Cavern of Souls
4x Cloudpost
1x Dark Depths
1x Eye of Ugin
2x Forest
1x Glacial Chasm
4x Glimmerpost
1x Island
1x Karakas
1x Maze of Ith
4x Misty Rainforest
1x Thespian's Stage
4x Tropical Island
2x Vesuva

Creature (7)
2x Kozilek, the Great Distortion
4x Primeval Titan
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

Instant (8)
4x Brainstorm
4x Crop Rotation

Sorcery (7)
4x Life from the Loam
3x Show and Tell

Artifact (5)
3x Mox Diamond
2x Sensei's Divining Top

Enchantment (4)
4x Exploration

Sideboard (15)
2x Engineered Explosives
4x Flusterstorm
3x Krosan Grip
3x Pithing Needle
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

any thoughts?

I actually am started to form a list that runs similar to turbo lands. It is interesting thus far. But horn of greed it hilarious.

[TheBoozeCube]

in the mean time i went all in on the lands plan and am testing something like this:

Land (29)
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Cavern of Souls
4x Cloudpost
1x Dark Depths
1x Eye of Ugin
2x Forest
1x Glacial Chasm
4x Glimmerpost
1x Island
1x Karakas
1x Maze of Ith
4x Misty Rainforest
1x Thespian's Stage
4x Tropical Island
2x Vesuva

Creature (7)
2x Kozilek, the Great Distortion
4x Primeval Titan
1x Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger

Instant (8)
4x Brainstorm
4x Crop Rotation

Sorcery (7)
4x Life from the Loam
3x Show and Tell

Artifact (5)
3x Mox Diamond
2x Sensei's Divining Top

Enchantment (4)
4x Exploration

Sideboard (15)
2x Engineered Explosives
4x Flusterstorm
3x Krosan Grip
3x Pithing Needle
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

any thoughts?

If you're going this route, you might want to consider Volrath's Stronghold, Academy Ruins, and/or Haven of the Spirit Dragon.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mr. Froggy]

Players on MTGO are so freaking slow OMG....

I try to keep an relatively normal pace but wow... Not even in real life people are this slow..

I do really like what the deck is doing for me though, extremely powerful.

[k_omega]

I've been loving my list on MTGO, 3Spheres is killer for the meta I've been facing.
Dryad Arbor might get the boot though, not a card I've been feeling.

I used to play Dryad Arbor but cut it for Khalni Garden, and haven't looked back. It's nice to be able to get a creature with Crop Rotation, and although the Garden is not fetch-able it can be reused with Vesuva and doesn't set you back a land when you block (a huge deal for 12 post). It does make Green Sun's Zenith less useful but we don't have the space for a GSZ toolbox anyway and I've come to question the value of playing that card.

[Mr. Froggy]

I used to play Dryad Arbor but cut it for Khalni Garden, and haven't looked back. It's nice to be able to get a creature with Crop Rotation, and although the Garden is not fetch-able it can be reused with Vesuva and doesn't set you back a land when you block (a huge deal for 12 post). It does make Green Sun's Zenith less useful but we don't have the space for a GSZ toolbox anyway and I've come to question the value of playing that card.

I, for one, love GSZ. Playing Titan 5-8 is just amazing.

I'm gonna try Khalni Garden though. Forgot that land existed.

[TheBoozeCube]

I know it's probably heresy, but I'm leaning towards cutting a Top to make room for the 4th Warping Wail. I don't want to cut an Eldrazi, land, or sweeper. This leaves me the following:

4x Ancient Stirrings
4x Crop Rotation
4x Expedition Map
4x Candelabra
2x Top

Ancient Stirrings is the backbone of the deck. As long as I have a green source, it's almost always the best possible topdeck at any point.

Crop Rotation is a bit more dangerous because of countermagic, but it's still insane at any point. It stifles Wasteland, finds silver bullets at instant speed, and upgrades my extra Forests. I know some people don't play the full 4x, but I think it's far too powerful not to.

All things being equal, I'd rather see an Expedition Map than Top 90% of the time. It's not as fast as Crop, but I'd rather find the precise card I need than hope to get lucky in my top 3.

I could maybe see cutting a Candelabra. I played with 3x for a long time. But the raw power of Candelabra, especially in multiples, makes me extremely hesitant to cut it.

Since I don't play fetches (I hate Stifle and want guaranteed basics on the draw for K Grip), Top has been good but not as good for me as it is for other people. Even at 2x, it's not a card I ever want to see multiples of. I already have a tremendous amount of card selection between Ancient Stirrings and 8x straight-up tutors. Going down to 1x is painful, but it seems like the right call, assuming Warping Wail is as powerful as I hope.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk