Hey! I haven't posted here in a few years. I've played mainly RUG Delver and Storm whenever I've had time to go to Legacy events away from school, so I figured I'd try something new. The deck I'm listing below is a bit unconventional, but I'll explain some of my choices:
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Underground Sea
3 Volcanic Island
1 Tropical Island
1 Island
1 Swamp
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
4 Young Pyromancer
1 Grim Lavamancer
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Gitaxian Probe
3 Cabal Therapy
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Forked Bolt
1 Abrupt Decay
4 Force of Will
2 Daze
1 Spell Pierce
1 Counterspell
1 Umezawa's Jitte
Sideboard:
1 Mountain
3 Blood Moon
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Pyroblast
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Darkblast
2 Thoughtseize
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Pithing Needle
Explaining some of my choices:
1) Dark Confidant/Grim Lavamancer over Delve Cards: I think Bob is really good in the current metagame. Against any deck that's not attacking your life total, he's generally going to be a must-answer bomb. Bob punishes you for expensive Delve cards, so I put a Grim Lavamancer in instead, since without the Delve guys you have a lot more fuel for the Lavamancer, especially if you play intelligently with Deathrite.
2) No planeswalkers: I'd rather play a slim, low-to-the-ground game and try to overwhelm the opponent with Bob or beat them down with Pyromancer. By not having expensive cards, you can play 17 lands maindeck.
3) Blood Moon: The Moon is just brutal against Lands and can get you a lot of auto-wins against decks with greedy manabases.
4) Abrupt Decay: I think this is pretty self-explanatory. Having one in the maindeck as a flex slot can get you out of a lot of sticky situations - it's not difficult to cast off 4 Deathrite/1 Trop and it can be shuffled away with Brainstorm/Fetch. Out of the sideboard, it's very good against Miracles and is in general a good removal option against decks that aren't attacking your mana.
My big questions are:
1) I'm really unsure about the 2 Daze in the maindeck. Daze is bad, but if I have 8 creatures that I want to be deploying on turn 2, I want to have some more ways to defend them. They're also easy sideboard fodder, which is kind of a crappy reason to put a card in, and if the opponent sees one they may play around it in the future.
2) Is the basic mountain worth putting in the sideboard? I really like the idea of having a solid source against D&T and Grixis so you can guarantee Lavamancer activations, and against Lands so you can make sure you land Blood Moon (though I'd only fetch it if I already had Island and Swamp).
3) What do you guys think about Jitte? Since the deck's relatively dude-heavy, I wanted to give it some more hitting power and have a bomb against Elves, D&T, and Delver.
4) Should I put the fourth Therapy in the sideboard? I'm afraid four would be kinda clunky.
Things I would consider adding to the main to replace the Dazes:
1 Spell Pierce
1 Counterspell
1 Vendilion Clique
1 True-Name Nemesis
1 Kolaghan's Command
1 Snapcaster Mage
Thanks - feedback is hugely appreciated.
Sign in Blood is better than either of those. At least you can kill your opponent with it.Originally Posted by atopebenidorm
Hey everyone,
just wanted to show you a decklist
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=11034&d=262823&f=LE
Someone won the Finnish Legacy Championship, a 109-player tournament, with Grixis-controll. I got the list send to me by a friend the evening bfore I went to a 100-person tournament myslf, so i gave it a try and I finished Top4. Cause we splitted prices in Top4 and it was close to 10 pm, we didn't play for the semifinals and finals, so cannot tell you if I would hav won or not, but I will write a detailed tournamentreport today. Hope your looking forward to reading it.
*Tournamentreport*
Last edited by Lightless; 12-07-2015 at 02:24 PM.
Welcome back!
Hi Lightless, this was my list for the Legaxy Open:
Lands (19)
4 Scalding Tarn, 3 Flooded Strand, 2 Polluted Delta
4 Volcanic Island, 3 Underground Sea
2 Island, 1 Mountain (I don't want to lose to Wasteland)
Creatures (10)
4 Young Pyromancer
2 True-Name Nemesis
2 Gurmag Angler
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Snapcaster Mage
Spells (31)
4 Force of Will, 4 Brainstorm, 4 Ponder, 4 Gitaxian Probe
1 Preordain
2 Counterspell
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Lightning Bolt
1 Pyroblast
1 Forked Bolt
1 Kolaghan's Command
1 Umezawa's Jitte
Sideboard (15)
2 Pyroblast
2 Blood Moon
1 Sudden Demise
1 Sulfur Elemental
1 Flusterstorm
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Pithing Needle
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Dack Fayden
2 Engineered Explosives
Cards I liked:
Dack Fayden - he's the reason I drew to RUG Delver and didn't lose. He eventually found the Jitte that gained me enough life to stabilize. Would love to have stolen my MUD opponent's Blightsteel Colossus both games he killed me with it. I will be putting 2 in my main deck next time.
Blood Moon - Seemed like a great way to beat Shardless BUG, 3+ color Delver, Infect, and MUD, which were 6 of my 9 rounds.
Umezawa's Jitte - If I have some mana, combat was always in my favor.
Gurmag Angler - When I delved properly, it stopped Tarmogoyfs and avoided common removal spells all day. I played against a lot of them, so with Dack Fayden helping to stock the graveyard, I want to try a 3rd main.
Cards I did not like:
True-Name Nemesis - Sometimes I didn't have 3 mana to cast him. Other times in this tourney, I got blown out by Toxic Deluge, Night of Souls' Betrayal, and Golgari Charm. Since Young Peezy + tokens also die to all of those, I don't want 2 TNNs anymore.
Kolaghan's Command - It's versatile, but too expensive for what I needed throughout the day.
Grim Lavamancer & Forked Bolt - I thought I'd face Delver and Deathrites and little white creatures all day. I instead lost to Tarmogoyfs.
Cards I want to try:
Baleful Strix & Murderous Cut - I want nice answers to Tarmogoyfs.
Notion Thief - Now that I want 2 Dack Faydens main deck, I gotta consider him somewhere in the 75, right?
I might be playing in a $1K legacy tournament on December 19th, so if I do, I'll ask some more questions leading up to that.
Sent from my Nexus 5X using Tapatalk
Dack Fayden was already falling out of favor when Cruise and DTT were legal in the format. Without a substantial payoff spell I think he gets much harder to justify. I think the lessons from that era still apply. If more filtering and card selection is what you want then I think Preordain (or now Jace, Vyrn's Prodigy) are the cards you should be looking at. I like Command a lot as a sideboard card - it's where you want to be against D&T - but I get not wanting it maindeck. I think Strix and Murderous Cut are great replacements for TNN and Command. Neither helps with being soft to -x/-x effects, but GAngler helps with that. I've run a singleton JTMS in the past for exactly that reason. 4 is a lot of mana, but as a 1 of you can dig to it and don't end up with it early too often. Forked Bolt and Lavamancer are also valuable against elves, infect, and D&T - I feel like they'd compete for spots with EE, Demise, etc. from the board though, so I think cutting them is very defensible.
Am I to understand from this post that we're lumping all the Grixis Control and Grixis Delver lists together into a deck called 'Grixis Pyromancer' and then putting the Grixis Control thread into DTB, when in reality the Delver build is vastly more popular and is putting up far more results?
Roses are colorless.
Violets are colorless.
Everything is nothing.
Di PM'ed me for clarification but I was in bed. It will be fixed today.
It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
Thanks, I think this is to the benefit of the community.
Roses are colorless.
Violets are colorless.
Everything is nothing.
I'm still having success with this archetype. Lent a version (check my previous post) after going 7-2 in an event myself. My friend lost his win-and-in to eventual winner Dylan Donegan, with multiple harsh mulligans.
Check my friend's result here:
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=97048
And check out a recent article by myself:
http://manadeprived.com/grixis-control-legacy/
I'd like to congratulate you for both your results and your very well written article.
Still, I'm not convinced. Painful truths is quite bad against Tempo decks, that's why you have 1 murderous cut 1 innocent blood 1 forked bolt as non bolt removals (I don't quote Kolaghan which can be used differently), among which only 2 deal with tarmogoyf (+jace if opponent = non tempo) and that you can't really find as you could have with dig.
These 3 cards are quite useless in the Miracle MU (as well as bolt to a certain extent). And unlike Dig, Painful is very hard to cast against Miracle, since you will most likely tap out and open yourself to Entreat/CB/Mentor. In my opinion, Grixis has to be a reactive deck as long as CB is in the metagame, which Painful Truths can't provide. My guess is that you will have hard time beating any decent Miracle player (I know how easy it is when the Miracle player doesn't know what he's doing - ie keeping stp postboard for instance, etc).
But, if you still have faith in this deck, which I can only support, I would suggest some sulfur elemental in the sideboard. Also I would play null rod instead of needle. I find Ob nyxilis a bit narrow (here mainly for shardless I assume ; I think you can have better - against Miracle, taping 5 for a threat that can be dealt with by Mentor doesn't seem great). You should also try grim lavamancer in the sideboard (if so, remove forked bolt main). I would also play more flusterstorm in the sideboard.
Jemand musste Joseph K. verleumdet haben, denn ohne dass er etwas Böses getan hätte, wurde er eines Morgens verhaftet.
Any idea what the 60th card was? Just curious since the list in the scg link only shows 59 cards.
Sent from my LGLS991 using Tapatalk
Thanks for the replies thus far. To respond to some criticism from you, JosephK
You write:
"Painful truths is quite bad against Tempo decks, that's why you have 1 murderous cut 1 innocent blood 1 forked bolt as non bolt removals (I don't quote Kolaghan which can be used differently), among which only 2 deal with tarmogoyf (+jace if opponent = non tempo) and that you can't really find as you could have with dig."
This is all true, though I haven't been convinced that the consequences are as you make them out. In the case of painful truths against tempo, I have been cutting them post-board. My friend's mistake in his win-and-in was to leave them in, where he was punished accordingly. That said, the pieces of spot removal go some distance and you up your interaction against delver variants post-board. Dismember is the removal-piece of choice precisely because of Tarmogoyf, and with respect to Tarmo the logic thus far has been that Young Pyromancer simply outclasses him once things get moving.
You then say:
"These 3 cards are quite useless in the Miracle MU (as well as bolt to a certain extent). And unlike Dig, Painful is very hard to cast against Miracle, since you will most likely tap out and open yourself to Entreat/CB/Mentor. In my opinion, Grixis has to be a reactive deck as long as CB is in the metagame, which Painful Truths can't provide. My guess is that you will have hard time beating any decent Miracle player (I know how easy it is when the Miracle player doesn't know what he's doing - ie keeping stp postboard for instance, etc)."
I can't speak to the skill level of the miracles opponents I've faced thus far, except that they've seemed relatively competent (of course that doesn't say much, especially given the skill requisite for strong legacy play). You're right that the spot removal is poor against them (murderous cut has a reasonable chance of killing a mentor under a CB, worst case scenario), and we cut most of it post board in order to bring in pyroblasts, Ob Nixilis, Tar Pit, Needle, and Clique. It's been a smooth transformation for me, most of the time. As for casting painful truths, I haven't found it to be a liability at all. You always need to be smart when you cast the card. Situations in which they go on to resolve a CB right afterwards can be (and should be) mitigated by waiting to cast PT until you have the prospect of holding up additional mana for a pre-emptive therapy or counter. Alternatively, save your forces as you normally would. Cabal Therapy simplifies the game state just by being played, and so the scenario in which your miracles opponent is resource-rich by the time you cast PT are not as ubiquitous as you might think, at least in my experience.
Finally:
"But, if you still have faith in this deck, which I can only support, I would suggest some sulfur elemental in the sideboard. Also I would play null rod instead of needle. I find Ob nyxilis a bit narrow (here mainly for shardless I assume ; I think you can have better - against Miracle, taping 5 for a threat that can be dealt with by Mentor doesn't seem great). You should also try grim lavamancer in the sideboard (if so, remove forked bolt main). I would also play more flusterstorm in the sideboard."
I do like sulfur elemental. I've opted for Staticaster because A) it pitches to force and B) has wider applications against other archetypes (and pyro mirrors). Finding room for both is a possibility, though I'm not sure what your thoughts would be in that department. Null Rod is a card I always love to find room for: Needle has been chosen because it has applications against Lands, which is a real consideration these days. Finding room for both, again, is a possibility for which I'm not too certain how to proceed. On Ob Nixilis, you note its manacost as the primary issue: I think JTMS is not so different in this regard, and if your opponent is going to slam a mentor right after, Nixilis can kill it on the untap (though not any tokens that may have been generated, hopefully without the double-top engine). If Mentor's already in play, then indeed you're just slamming Nixilis to kill it. The reason to play control is to prevent Mentor from being on board too frequently. Moreover, if mentor's already in play, slamming a Jace is perhaps equally poor, or worse.
Lastly, you say that we can jam more flusterstorms - my friend had similar misgivings about our fast combo matchups. Any suggestions on what to cut?
Also, @Slayer89, the final card is a mainboard JTMS.
*necro time*
I wanted to share the list I've 4-0'd the last 2 dailys with on modo, for reference:
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles...ily-2016-01-28
I've been going back n forth between this, more controlling build, and another lower to the ground build featuring 4 drs and less countermagic, but the controlling version suits my personal playstyle a bit better.
Nothing groundbreaking by any stretch but though you lot might appreciate seeing that the deck can perform, even though it's tier 2 nowdays.
Also, the 2nd Mire should be 4th Tarn but was not been changed for budget reasons.
Just removed my basic Mountain for the 3rd Island, which led to switching 3rd U. Sea for Badlands to have access to 4 featchable red sources. Black is almost a "splashcolour" and one of the best axis of attack against the deck is going after the red mana, a little less so for this blueheavy build, but still..
Hopefully the deck will function without the basic Mountain but time will tell, but it's almost like playing 18 lands with it since it's not possible to keep a 1 lander with only Mountain.
The deck probably wants to 20th land as well, which should imply cutting Izzet Charm or 2nd Painful Truths, but I'm greedy... So greedy... ^^
TTP
Nice to see some results from the deck.
My advice would be to completely cut the overrated painful truths and try a 1-of skeletal scrying instead. Also, I'm not a fan of Spell Pierce / Izzet Charm in the deck. What about Kolaghan's Command ? The card seems very good as a 1 of in a snapcaster deck. I could even see 2 in there.
Jemand musste Joseph K. verleumdet haben, denn ohne dass er etwas Böses getan hätte, wurde er eines Morgens verhaftet.
Regarding your concerns JosephK.
- In my opinion Painful Truth is not overrated, I even go as far as considering it MVP in several MUs, especially Miracle, Shardless and midrange-ish decks.
I could see trying our Skeletal Scrying though, hav't tried that card for 7 or 8 years probably, might be good.
- I've been playing Kolaghan's Command though for the last 2 months and havn't been overly impressed to be honest. It has it's moments when it really shines, but those tend to be few and far between. Might be that the meta on modo is less favourable for it since you don't get to play against alot of fringier decks. It's really good value in the delver MUs but as a 3drops demands a great deal of setup. Sweet card though.
Have you had any experience with the changes you're suggesting..?
TTP
I haven't seen Skeletal Scrying be good in any deck in a very long time, and it's certainly not as good as Painful Truths has been.
I have tested the deck since the banning of dig through time, obviously, especially since GP Seattle. I also tested Painful Truths as a 1, 2 or 3 of in different Grixis lists (with daze, even with ascension). My post is not a one liner since I already explained why Truths was not reliable vs Miracle (thanks for your input hsck btw).
My point is that Painful truths remains a conditional card : it is close to uncastable in several MUs, and goes against the "spirit" of the deck against combo and Miracle, which involves choices that you shouldn't make ; Truths into force on CB/Mentor is a lot worse than snap counterspell, just to give an example. Certainly, this 3 mana sorcery is great against Shardless, Jund, midrangy decks, but this isn't the whole metagame. Kolahgan s command is a grinding tool which has broader application in my opinion. Painful Truths needs Deathrite Shaman and Decay to be good in legacy.
Skeletal scrying can be cast versus delver (for 2 or 1) even if you end up boarding it out G2, is almost as good versus Jund/Shardless (sometimes better, when I need to hold a counerspell during their turn, sometimes worse), and is a lot better vs Miracle and Combo, which allows nice eot setups (into mainphase threat). You should test it.
Jemand musste Joseph K. verleumdet haben, denn ohne dass er etwas Böses getan hätte, wurde er eines Morgens verhaftet.
Greetings :)
Just wanted to check back with some updates.
Ive been testing Skeletal Scrying over the weekend, was supposed to play in two live tourney but they fell through. But managed to play 4-5 DEs and 4 8mans on modo, and some random 1v1s, so some testing at least.
Thanks JosephK, the card has really been performing well, it suits the style of the deck very well and in the MUs where it shines it's incredibly powerful. Tha ability to consistently draw 4-5 cards EOT in the grindier MUs has proven powerful, very nice catch.
Cheers
TTP
Post list pleasE?
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