[Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

[nedleeds]

nedleeds you should never lose to Storm combo in a best of 3 match if you're playing MUD. Do you play 4 Revokers in your 75? I play 4 Revokers in the SB of every MUD deck I bring to tournaments and it's the only way you really guarantee crushing Storm because once you have 4 Chalice, 4 Revoker, 4 Trini, AND 4 Lodestone, you don't have to mulligan to get enough hate in your opening hand. I also play 2 Thorn of Amethyst in the SB as well, which might be overkill but I absolutely DO NOT want to lose my good matchups.

Game 2 I demolish him on a mulligan to 6 when I get cards with text like Revoker. Game 3 I keep a good hand for the draw but am vulnerable to a fast empty (I board in Ratchet Bomb on the draw vs. storm because their best turn one is an empty). He empties for 12. I feel like MUD should almost never lose a game on the play.

Did you even read? Yes, I play 4 x Revoker ... 4 x 3Ball, 4 x Chalice, 4 x LSG. I also had 2 Thorns in my board. I also had 4 god damn Envelops in my deck and still managed to not have a keepable hand. There's a reason this deck is a crap shoot. Even worse *I knew* he was on storm, had the play and mulled to 4. My first 3 hands had no plays. My 4 had a Wasteland, another land, 3ball and Metalworker. My scry showed me a fucking sick looking Wurmcoil Engine. After that debacle I dropped at 3-2 in a 7 round event, I had no desire to continue to 'play'.

[L10]

There's a reason this deck is a crap shoot.

That's just Magic. Sometimes, you just get really unlucky.

[Fry]

Nedleeds, I've done everything from a turn 2 Ugin to doing virtually nothing and being slaughtered. It happens sometimes. If you don't like how this deck can do that, then find something else that probably has blue in it so you don't whine about how some decks crap out sometimes.

[Bobmans]

He plays moon decks, he should know this.
I couldn't even begin to count i opened with Blightsteel Colossus in my hand or had it as a first draw. Every deck does that, especially non blue and especially this deck with it's big CMC's.

[ZEROorDIE]

Nedleeds, I've done everything from a turn 2 Ugin to doing virtually nothing and being slaughtered. It happens sometimes. If you don't like how this deck can do that, then find something else that probably has blue in it so you don't whine about how some decks crap out sometimes.

Yes, this deck definitely suffers from variance. I've had to put it down for a while due to the prevalence of black and green decks at my lgs. Been blood mooning the crap out of greedy mana bases lately though.

[nedleeds]

Nedleeds, I've done everything from a turn 2 Ugin to doing virtually nothing and being slaughtered. It happens sometimes. If you don't like how this deck can do that, then find something else that probably has blue in it so you don't whine about how some decks crap out sometimes.

I wasn't whining in my initial report, I stated why I lost. I was directly responding to somebody who clearly didn't read what I wrote and responded directly to me, in that response I guess I whined about losing what should be a positive matchup. Why should I 'go play blue'? I explained that I lost to the same thing this deck and other stompy decks often lose to, of which I've played every variety. You on the other hand are just instigating. I don't need to find anything.

[Silverflame]

I don't want any of the Eldrazi creatures. There are painful choices already between the bounty of available artifact creatures. None of the eldrazi play well with Lodestone which is the best attacking creature in the deck. I played Warping Wail and it is the real deal, it shores up many of the most problematic situations for MUD, especially on the draw. Wail gets bumped by 3ball and potentially golem but it's still amazing against a huge portion of the legacy netdecks.

I agree with you that just splashing eldrazis on the deck doesn't work (I tested about 30 games, the build sucked), but maybe a dedicated list works. It wo'nt be like what we are used to do, but may be playable. I found said list, but hadn't tested it yet. http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/363500#online

[Barsoom]

I'm having success recently (on cockatrice) with this version of Legend MUD based on the list posted by MGB on 3674

Legend MUD

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
3 Vesuva
2 Eldrazi Temple
1 Eye of Ugin

2 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
3 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
3 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
3 Karn Liberated

4 Basalt Monolith
4 Grim Monolith
3 Thran Dynamo
2 Hedron Archive
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
4 Coercive Portal
1 Staff of Nin
2 Voltaic Key

Sideboard:
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Warping Wail
2 All is Dust

MUD is together with OmniTell the deck i played mostly in Legacy, from the first version without Post lands to MUD Post to now, and i must say i really like this Legend version.
In a few words, we have in this version less mana problems and the ability to draw cards, the two historical problems of the MUD archetype.
We doesn't play creatures either (outside Eldrazi), and this many times is a big advantage.

About my list, what i'm not sure about and possible changes to test with are:
-1 City of Traitors +1 Eldrazi Temple? is 4 City of Traitors too much?
-1 Karn Liberated it's one of the card i side out the most, Ugin is in most situations the best planeswalker to play
-1 Basalt Monolith +1 Voltaic Key could improve the mana artifacts suite, and is Basalth Monolith better than Worn Powerstone? the answer is probably yes but i never tested the stone

From the side, is All is Dust really needed? i side it in a ton, but Warping Wail is awesome too, so maybe -2 All is Dust +2 Warping Wail (for Delver expecially) can work

I'm quite happy with the rest of the deck and i suggest MUD lovers to try it.

[Admiral_Arzar]

About my list, what i'm not sure about and possible changes to test with are:
-1 City of Traitors +1 Eldrazi Temple? is 4 City of Traitors too much?
-1 Karn Liberated it's one of the card i side out the most, Ugin is in most situations the best planeswalker to play
-1 Basalt Monolith +1 Voltaic Key could improve the mana artifacts suite, and is Basalth Monolith better than Worn Powerstone? the answer is probably yes but i never tested the stone

From the side, is All is Dust really needed? i side it in a ton, but Warping Wail is awesome too, so maybe -2 All is Dust +2 Warping Wail (for Delver expecially) can work

I'm quite happy with the rest of the deck and i suggest MUD lovers to try it.

I've been considering putting this type of list together for a while. I would go ahead and test -1 City of Traitors, +1 Eldrazi Temple (or maybe a Cavern of Souls, which I like here as well). If it impacts your ability to play stuff on turn 1 you can always put it back in. Karn is probably fine as a 2-of, as you said, Ugin is generally better. Playing more Ugins also cuts down on the need to play All is Dust in the sideboard. I feel like you want at least 3 Voltaic Key here. 4 might be too many, but it also might be good - it's been a while since I've played Key in MUD but I like the card and it is very powerful with this number of mana rocks. Keep in mind that Key also allows you to counter Swords to Plowshares with Kozilek, which is a strong interaction if you lack a Chalice. Warping Wail is amazing and definitely deserves some slots in the board IMO.

[Barsoom]

I made a typo in the original list, i'm playing 3 Thran Dynamo and not 4, so the mana rocks are

4 Grim Monolith
4 Basalt Monolith
3 Thran Dynamo
2 Hedron Archive

Hedron is good with it's ability to draw cards, the only slot i can change here is 3 or 4 Basalt Monolith, Voltaic Key is really good, but in 3x can conflict too much with Chalice of the Void; this needs to be tested.
I'll definitely try -1 City of Traitors for Eldrazi Temple/Cavern of Souls; the good think about the Eldrazi is that their abilities works on cast, so they still do most of the work even if countered.
Another change i thought about was to put the Trinisphere in the sideboard and put Warping Wail in the main; they are good versus combo like the sphere but can be useful, maindeck, against other kind of decks too.
All is Dust is Eldrazi too, so with 3x Eldrazi Temple it's value can go up.

[MGB]

I'm having success recently (on cockatrice) with this version of Legend MUD based on the list posted by MGB on 3674

Legend MUD

4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
3 Vesuva
2 Eldrazi Temple
1 Eye of Ugin

2 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
3 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
3 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon
3 Karn Liberated

4 Basalt Monolith
4 Grim Monolith
3 Thran Dynamo
2 Hedron Archive
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
4 Coercive Portal
1 Staff of Nin
2 Voltaic Key

Sideboard:
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Tormod's Crypt
2 Warping Wail
2 All is Dust

MUD is together with OmniTell the deck i played mostly in Legacy, from the first version without Post lands to MUD Post to now, and i must say i really like this Legend version.
In a few words, we have in this version less mana problems and the ability to draw cards, the two historical problems of the MUD archetype.
We doesn't play creatures either (outside Eldrazi), and this many times is a big advantage.

About my list, what i'm not sure about and possible changes to test with are:
-1 City of Traitors +1 Eldrazi Temple? is 4 City of Traitors too much?
-1 Karn Liberated it's one of the card i side out the most, Ugin is in most situations the best planeswalker to play
-1 Basalt Monolith +1 Voltaic Key could improve the mana artifacts suite, and is Basalth Monolith better than Worn Powerstone? the answer is probably yes but i never tested the stone

From the side, is All is Dust really needed? i side it in a ton, but Warping Wail is awesome too, so maybe -2 All is Dust +2 Warping Wail (for Delver expecially) can work

I'm quite happy with the rest of the deck and i suggest MUD lovers to try it.

I tried using Voltaic Key but I didn't like the situations where you'd have Chalice @ 1 and you couldn't play the key. Often times you want Chalice @ 1 ASAP so you can't really hold back on Chalice until you get Key in play, so they are at odds with one another. The other option is to cut Chalice, but I would never want to do that in Legacy because Chalice @ 1 is just too powerful.

Karn Liberated is sometimes underwhelming but it gives you the ability to stack exile effects (along with Ugin's exiling, and Ulamog's exiling). It also comes down very early because 7 is a key mana cost in this deck (2 sol lands + mana rock). You could theoretically just play Wurmcoils instead of Karn, and it would give you better game against decks like RUG Delver, BUG Delver, and other creature based decks without Swords to Plowshares, but my goal with this deck is I want to destroy Miracles in G1 as often as possible. Wurmcoil Engine is downright bad against Miracles because they have so many ways to just exile it, whereas Karn (when it resolves) against Miracles is a deadly threat to them. I guess it depends on what matchups you want to focus on. If you don't mind Miracles as much, or you feel confident in your ability to beat Miracles with the rest of the deck, then maybe you could just play wurmcoils instead of Karn, or maybe 1-2 Karn instead of 3. I just personally like Karn's ability to threaten Miracles and other decks that wouldn't really mind Wurmcoil (like Storm decks that don't care about Wurmcoil attacking as much as Karn exiling their lands or their hand).

Re: Worn Powerstone vs. Basalt Monolith - Powerstone lets you activate it more times without paying untap costs, so it can be better in some situations, but it also taps for 1 mana less. Often times that 1 mana can be the difference between playing Ugin next turn or having to wait. So I tend to err toward the side of "more mana" because I just want to play the bombs as early as possible. However, I haven't tested Powerstone much, so if you test Powerstone in place of Basalt Monolith please tell me how you feel about it.

[Gnagno]

I have a question for everybody: how do yoy handle a monastery mentor resolved?
I noticed it's a big threat for MUD and even if you have chalice at 1 and/or trinisphere miracles is able to make an army of monk quiete easily.
In my sideboard I have two Ugins but I feel only two cards it's not enough. I don't like ratchet bomb because it destroys the tokens but not mentor and I wouldn't play all is dust just for this MU (for aggro decks I have spatial contortion and warping wail).

[potatodavid]

I have a question for everybody: how do yoy handle a monastery mentor resolved?
I noticed it's a big threat for MUD and even if you have chalice at 1 and/or trinisphere miracles is able to make an army of monk quiete easily.
In my sideboard I have two Ugins but I feel only two cards it's not enough. I don't like ratchet bomb because it destroys the tokens but not mentor and I wouldn't play all is dust just for this MU (for aggro decks I have spatial contortion and warping wail).

Dat ugin activation

[Stuart]

I have a question for everybody: how do yoy handle a monastery mentor resolved?
I noticed it's a big threat for MUD and even if you have chalice at 1 and/or trinisphere miracles is able to make an army of monk quiete easily.
In my sideboard I have two Ugins but I feel only two cards it's not enough. I don't like ratchet bomb because it destroys the tokens but not mentor and I wouldn't play all is dust just for this MU (for aggro decks I have spatial contortion and warping wail).

As David said, Ugin is a tremendous way of dealing with Mentor (and pretty much every permanent in Legacy). I know you find Ugin to be win-more, but I'd strongly recommend running him maindeck.

Besides that, I think proactivity is your best bet. Chalice, Lodestone, Trinisphere, Sundering Titan and Wasteland all limit your opponent's ability to either cast spells and refill their hands, both of which Mentor is fairly reliant on. If you can stick a Trinisphere and a big threat (Wurmcoil is great, here), you should be able to race a Mentor.

I'm also not a fan of All Is Dust (I don't like that you can't Forgemaster it) or Ratchet Bomb (too slow/awkward). I play 1 Contagion Engine in my sideboard, and love it. You can tutor it with Forgemaster, and it's pretty reasonable to hardcast. Most people just don't see it coming.

[Gnagno]

As David said, Ugin is a tremendous way of dealing with Mentor (and pretty much every permanent in Legacy). I know you find Ugin to be win-more, but I'd strongly recommend running him maindeck.

Besides that, I think proactivity is your best bet. Chalice, Lodestone, Trinisphere, Sundering Titan and Wasteland all limit your opponent's ability to either cast spells and refill their hands, both of which Mentor is fairly reliant on. If you can stick a Trinisphere and a big threat (Wurmcoil is great, here), you should be able to race a Mentor.

I'm also not a fan of All Is Dust (I don't like that you can't Forgemaster it) or Ratchet Bomb (too slow/awkward). I play 1 Contagion Engine in my sideboard, and love it. You can tutor it with Forgemaster, and it's pretty reasonable to hardcast. Most people just don't see it coming.

I don't play wastelands because it happened almost never to use. I rather have 4 mishra's factory to deal with planeswalker. I let my 3 sundering titans to destroy my opponents manabase
About contagion engine it's a solution but for now I added another spatial contortion; il board in 2 of them so I will be able to manage mentor and I'll have another removal vs aggro in a cheaper way.

[MGB]

If you're not playing at least 2 Ugin the Spirit Dragon in any MUD deck, you're insane.

[movingtonewao]

I'm seconding (thirding?) this. One of the catalysts for me taking this deck seriously was when ugin showed up. Before that it was just big dudes but finally we have a board wipe and a wincon all rolled into one.

[Gnagno]

I don't feel comfortable with Ugin MD because there are a lot of MU where it stays in your hand doing nothing in 80% scenario.
For example delver deck and d&t (which are a large piece of the metagame) doesn't allow you to land Ugin due to daze, pierce, wasteland, rishadan, thalia and revoker unless they make 4 orrible topdecks/they are noobs.
It's not good against combo, too.
It gives the best against miracle and decks that lets you build your manabase, which are few.

If you feel brave enough to say: "who cares, I'm always able to cast it" it's good to play it MD beacus it's simply too much for your opponent.
I'm coward, or simply unlucky, because I got stroken every time by two wastelands and I barely add 6 mana for wurmcoil

[Stuart]

If you feel brave enough to say: "who cares, I'm always able to cast it" it's good to play it MD beacus it's simply too much for your opponent.
I'm coward, or simply unlucky, because I got stroken every time by two wastelands and I barely add 6 mana for wurmcoil

I can appreciate that feeling, and it's possible that you just play in a meta that's overloaded with Wastelands. If that's the case, MUD might not be the right deck for you: Sundering Titan, Platinum Emperion, Blightsteel, and Ugin are the most powerful cards in our deck, and they all cost 8+. When you play MUD, I think you have to be brave and admit to yourself that sometimes, you just won't get to cast your cards. However, it's easy to think pessimistically and assume that the worst-case scenario will always happen. If that was true, no one would ever play Miracles for fear of running into 12-Post

I'll admit that Ugin is slightly harder to cast than the others, because he can't be protected by Cavern of Souls and can't be tutored with Forgemaster. However, when you do cast him, he's the most devastating card in the deck. I think that's worth the tradeoff.

[Griselpuff]

For people who play Forgemaster, what are your thoughts on Sundering Titan as a 1 of vs. Delver? It's either him, or the 4th Forgemaster as the final cut for me.