Even with Adarkar Wastes and Talisman, main problem I see is getting 2 colored mana for Rasputin since Cavern for Elrazi doesn't work on him. Instant speed removal of your opponent can also break the chain. Still a very cool use of the combo, though.Originally Posted by bruizar
Contortion is definitely the better removal spell, but I've found the counter Sorcery mode to be pretty damn good.
It hasn't come up yet, but I look forward to making a token EoT, and slapping a Jitte on it on my turn. Despite getting pummeled by flipped Delvers and 2/2s yesterday, I'm still going to be running Wail.
The best I can make for now. 3 cards need to go, but I cant choose. Phantasmal Image also copies enters the battlefield and devoid. Looks like an eldrazi, quacks like an Eldrazi, Eldrazi to me.
UW Eldrazi
Land
4 Eye of Ugin
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 City of Traitors
4 Adarkar Wastes
4 Cavern of Souls
23
Non Eldrazi 09 (Sorted by CC)
4 Mox Diamond
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Rasputin Dreamweaver
Eldrazi 31 (Sorted by CC)
3 Phantasmal Image
3 Endless One
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Eldrazi Skyspawner
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Drowner of Hope
1 Ulamog, The Ceaseless Hunger
Warping Wail is the death knell against combo decks after playing Chalice of the Void, TKS and then countering their Natural Order / SNT / Reanimate, etc.
Was Jitte ever relevant? I find myself hardly wanting it because of how mana constrained i am the first turns to just equip things.
No. I'm used to playing all manner of Stompy decks in Legacy, and almost none of them play Wasteland. This deck is mana-hungry anyways and I don't particularly want to use my land drops for that purpose.
It ate Force of Will against Merfolk. I boarded it out against the combo decks for obvious reasons. Jitte is there for fair matchups where you have much more time to get things going, and it turns your shitty little guys into actual threats. If I was playing a more ramp-focused strategy I wouldn't run it.
Lord of the Chalice
Stompy Discord: https://discord.gg/6cesvkz
It ramps, too. Unlike Lotus Vale, which only puts you up +1 mana when you play it (same as just playing any other land), Scorched Ruins takes you from 2 mana on board to 4.
I don't necessarily endorse it in a deck where you have 12 Sol Lands already doing the same thing, but that's a consideration.
See Page 10 Post 200:
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post930197
You can easy adjust the following stuff:
Lands:
2 Urborg/Vesuva/2 "Colorless Duals" (like Brushland) or other Utility Stuff
Artifacts:
3 Mind Stone/Guardian Idol/Talisman (if you need a Color Fix for Stuf like World Breaker)
Creatures:
1 Kozilek/World Breaker (need a "Green Mana" fix!)/Platinum Angel/ Any other Big Target
2 Oblivion Sower/can be other 5-6 Mana Eldrazi, i like Barooks Tech with 2 more Conduit of Ruin and World Breaker
Note: If you follow the little GW Splash idea, you can also try a number of Eldrazi Displacer Main (Slot: Matter Reshaper), the risk is you need W (Cavern, Brushland, Talisman) for cast (or a lucky Reshaper Trigger) BUT: Displacer is a very underestimated Guy. Body with 3/3 is not Bad in legacy and his ability is very good, sure you can't abuse your own Eldrazi (besides Seer), but you can protect them and more important, control the battlefield. The biggest upside will be against Matchups with Big Stuff like Lands (Token), Sneak&Show, MUD, 12Post, Mirror etc. but you also can keep Delver and Gofy in check until you get them.
I only played 1 Matchup (Pox) with this Splash so far but Displacer destroyed his plan with recurring Mishra's Factory.
Yeap more Conduit (do you cut Sower?) should work well in this case. As mentioned a lot i still like Urborg (played 2 of them) but with World Breaker (and Displacer) i am still unsure (not enough test games) if i want 2 Brushland here.
Elves: I was brainafk... Sage is still good, so you need to kill (mostly a single one) him first. The good thing is, that Sage will come down soon to kill Chalice/Sphere - but yes, Elves can be very resilient, it will need Chalice/Sphere AND Warping Wail (NO) and should follow up with a Sweeper as soon as possible.
Sideboard: Lands should be a bad matchup, but it is not a common deck and will also struggle if more players bring in Manadenial or Hate like Blood Moon (against Eldrazi^^). I still want to improve that matchup, yes more Graveyard Hate can be work, if you don't like Faerie i would use 4 Leyline of the Void which can be ready Turn 0 (no Reanimate Counter) is hard to remove, will work against other GY Stuff (Aggro Loam etc.) and Combo (Storm etc.). Before this, i would try some other tools against Lands (because i like my 3 Faerie Tech a lot) which can be: World Breaker Main and some Eldrazi Displacer at Main/Side. I also still don't like the Needle Idea, so i will try 2 Tsabo's Web. So with Chalice, Ramp-Artifacts, World Breaker, Faerie, Displacer and Web the Lands Matchups shouldn't be so bad anymore.
Yes - the spell saved me so many times (Terminus, Entreat, Show&Tell, NO, Glimpse, even Hymn, Small Pox lately or simply ramp into more Mana EoT or bother Planeswalker like liliana) - Warping Wail is clearly a 4off till i started with this deck.
I tried 1-2 and while Jitte can always be a good tool, it also needs 4 (non Eldrazi) Mana. For me the best case was: Reshaper dies, trigger into Jitte, attack the following turn with another Dude and Jitte. As you described it, the first Turns this deck will try to play a lot of other stuff. I am unsure if Jitte will get to my final 75 for the next tournament.
TEAM MtG Berlin
I like you sideboard... Side out and side in Vs principal tier? Thanks
@MD.Ghost: I cut the Sowers early since they were only mediocre to make room for the additional Conduits. That said, World Breaker is really, really good. I'm actually considering adding a second copy since you want it as Conduit target and it's nice as hard-cast target as well. In one of my latest matches, I cast Conduit and had World Breaker already used.Not too sure what to cut - Ulamog is extremely expensive, but can also hit creatures and PWs.
About Eldrazi Displacer: I think as a SB card it's nonsense and a waste of space. But as a MD card? Sounds good. Matter Reshaper has been pretty meh so far. Most of the times, it's either StP fodder, a meh beater or a glorified chumpblocker with a suprise "Oops, I ramp!" factor. Not terrible, but not exactly great, either. I could easily see Displacer stealing its spot.
About Displacer + TKS: Miracles has no chance to fire off a Miracle as long as you have both and mana for an activation open. As soon as they put the trigger on the stack, you flicker your TKS and take their sorcery, similiar to Clique. Be careful about flickering if they have set up their Miracle on top - the discard has the wrong timing to hit the Miracle in this scenario. Something to keep in mind. That's some D&T level of trickery right there - I like it.
Let's assume the deck runs 2 World Breaker and 4 Displacers. That would mean the needs a minimum of 9sources - Cavern covers 4 already, with a combination of 5 Brushland/Talisman bringing the rest to the table. Question is:
1 Urborg/1 Brushland with 2 Monolith/4 Talisman
or
2 Brushland with 3 Monolith/3 Talisman
Surprised you guys are having trouble casting Trinisphere and Jitte off this manabase. These cards have been great for me so far. Jitte is really nice because it turns some of your threat-light hands that maybe only resolve a 2/1 or two into much more of an issue for your opponent. For reference the manabase I'm testing is as follows:
4 Wasteland
4 Cavern of Souls
1 Mishra's Factory
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
I can't give you some detail advise for the common matchups because i played a lot of different builds and the "new" Version (with Ramp) is still a brew (see posts above, with a lot of room for improvment).
If i would enter a tournament now i would play the build with the latest GW Splash (World Breaker, Brushland, Talisman, 1 Displacer Main etc.) and the following experimental side:
1 All is Dust (and 2 Main, I still like the idea of a Planeswalker here, but they will not be supported from all the avaible Eldrazi Lands...)
1 Eldrazi Displacer (and 1 Main, as mentioned above this little guy can win matchups which can be hard for most Eldrazi Builds, this slot is "Single Removal" which can also be Dismember, Endbringer, Bearer of Silence if you have Urborg etc.)
4 Leyline of the Void (or 3 Faerie and 1 Tsabo's Web, but i have the feeling Lands and - in germany - Aggro Loam will still be played and aren't easy matchups if you can't break the manadenial/loam - the biggest issue i have with leyline is that my GW Build will not have a Urborg for Hardcast, i really would avoid all that Tormod's Crypt stuff - Graveyard Hate in form of Faerie or Leyline is perfect if you understand how all the decks work)
2 Phyrexian Revoker (remember you can search him with Eye too!)
2 Ratchet Bomb (had 3 before, but with 3 All is Dust and Eldrazi Displacer 2 Bombs should be enough, see below)
1 Culling Scales/Nevinyrral's Disk/Oblivion Stone (All have their pros and cons, but i liked vs Painter if they name Bomb with Revoker that you can still kill the field, Culling Scales can hit all the stuff up to 3 mana, which is a lot in legacy, but this slot is very experimental - 3rd Bomb should be fine as well)
3 Thorn of Amethyst (against Storm Mindbreak Trap would be better, but Burn can be a problem and Thorn will help here and in other Combo Matchups)
1 Wastes (more for the "lol" but i can see more Blood Moon, Path to Exile, Ghost Quarter in decks if Eldrazi will rise up in Legacy, so it is ok to have 1, it will also be as one more land against heavy Manadenial decks, but this Slot can also be anything Else!)
EDIT:
Still not sold to cut Reshaper (because without Mimic, Reshaper is a solid fast drop with "any" mana), but yeah if the build tends to "more GW" i could see a test of all the numbers of 1-4 Displayer, 1-2 World Breaker, 1-2 Brushland, 3-4 Talisman.@MD.Ghost: I cut the Sowers early since they were only mediocre to make room for the additional Conduits. That said, World Breaker is really, really good. I'm actually considering adding a second copy since you want it as Conduit target and it's nice as hard-cast target as well. In one of my latest matches, I cast Conduit and had World Breaker already used.
About Eldrazi Displacer: I think as a SB card it's nonsense and a waste of space. But as a MD card? Sounds good. Matter Reshaper has been pretty meh so far. Most of the times, it's either StP fodder, a meh beater or a glorified chumpblocker with a suprise "Oops, I ramp!" factor. Not terrible, but not exactly great, either. I could easily see Displacer stealing its spot.
About Displacer + TKS: Miracles has no chance to fire off a Miracle as long as you have both and mana for an activation open. As soon as they put the trigger on the stack, you flicker your TKS and take their sorcery, similiar to Clique. Be careful about flickering if they have set up their Miracle on top - the discard has the wrong timing to hit the Miracle in this scenario. Something to keep in mind. That's some D&T level of trickery right there - I like it.
Let's assume the deck runs 2 World Breaker and 4 Displacers. That would mean the needs a minimum of 9
1 Urborg/1 Brushland with 2 Monolith/4 Talisman
or
2 Brushland with 3 Monolith/3 Talisman
Note: As an early "replacement" of Reshaper i can also see more Endless One, which will also Scale very well with all the Mana/Game etc. so their is room for improvments here like -4 Reshaper -2 Urborg, +3 Displacer, +1 Endless One (3 total) +2 Brushland or anything else in this direction. As i said, Reshaper is very good vs BGx (nice Toxic Deluge, Liliana, Gofy etc.)
I like your 3 Conduits Idea and will also test them in that number (but yeah with 3 i think a 2nd World Breaker or other Target like the Angel should be in the 75 besides Ulamog).
Lets find a good mana base for this brew :)
TEAM MtG Berlin
What's the rest of your decklist? Are you running any artifact mana?
Pretty much this. People complaining about not being able to cast a two-mana artifact when their deck is built about Chalice are wearing their pants on their head. Trinisphere I have no issue casting, I just dislike the inability to cast it turn one. It's debatable whether that's enough of a problem to run Thorn instead, but my meta is overrun with fast combo so it might be a meta call even if Trinisphere is better in the wider meta.
Lord of the Chalice
Stompy Discord: https://discord.gg/6cesvkz
I never had problem actually casting them, it's more that jitte is 4 mana plus an attack phase, and is good vs "fair" decks which honestly didn't feel problematic to me. Also, 4 mana when a lot of your temple tap for 1 and ugin give 0 is comparatively like a 6 mana eldrazi, even if it's castable in two turns instead of 1.
Trinisphere vs thorn to me is the fact that trinisphere slow your development down if you cast it early, while thorn is a T1 play that does nothing to your curve while slowing significantly most decks. There's no doubt 3Sphere is a much stronger effect and just kills some decks (elves, BUG cascade) where thorn does little to nothing.
I write the list of gw version and its side thanks
Went to another tourny tonight and i had my first loss since picking up the deck.
5-1
Bug delver 2-0
Elves 2-0
Miracles 2-1
Storm 2-1
UR delver 2-1
Miracles 0-2
He just drew the fucking nuts. not alot to do about that, list was the same as last time.
im now 15-1 in rounds over 3 tournys
Like a boss
I already run 3 Displacers in the main (and only 2 Endless One due to space issues; since it's a vanilla beater, I can live with that), so the 4th Displacer seems redundant, at least for my build.
Wastes is a waste of space. We already have 6 artifact sources to dodge Blood Moon and nobody in Legacy is going to play the aborted Modern versions of Legacy staples.I would rather invest those slots into additional problem match-ups or stuff that shores up our match-ups across the field.
This begs the question: What are actually the weak/strong match-ups of the deck?
From I've gathered so far from this thread/playtesting on Cockatrice (take their player skill as a grain of salt):
- Lands is terrible
- Burn is bad
- Goyf is annoying to deal with (although it seems (uncounterable) World Breaker actively shits on him in terms of size)
- what else?
World Breaker recycling has been pretty unexplored yet. I crushed my latest RUG opponent, but getting back my first World Breaker might have been a feasible option after two 4/5 Goyfs ganged up on him.
I've seen people suggesting Crystal Vein at various points in this thread as extra copies of City of Traitors for extra turn 1 explosiveness. Is this actually reasonable? What kind of hands are you happy to sacrifice your first land drop for a 2cmc disruption piece? It seems straight up horrible in land-light hands or in the blind against decks against which you're unsure about the value of Chalice or Thorn.
It's not as much about T1 disruption, it's more about that T2-T3 reality smasher to close the game or T4 all is dust, T5 ugin. It make basically your top end cards easy to cast in exchange for a land which you don't care that much about at that point, and in exchange for any utility since it's essentially a land that just tap for C most of the times.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
