Played something along the lines of Julian's Order-less list today at a 91 person 5k in Baltimore, Maryland.
Went a rather disappointing 2-2-1 (dropping before the last two rounds to just relax and grab some food), but at least felt like the matchups I played were manageable given the list. I made a couple mistakes and had some harsh mulls, but the matches were generally within reach.
A few times during the day I missed the ability of Natural Order to just close out a game. There were some instances where I was in favorable position, but couldn't assemble a kill before my opponent found a way to dig themselves back into the match. However, I think with a bit more sideboarding practice, and a slight modification of how I evaluate my Zenith's with this list, it would be fine depending on what kind of field I expect. Which, I was preparing primarily for Storm and Miracles in this instance, with a mixture of Lands and D&T being the remaining major forces at work.
R1 - L - (1-2) - Miracles
R2 - W - (2-1) - Dredge
R3 - UID - (1-1-1) - Stoneblade with Countertop
R4 - W - (2-1) - Esper Deathblade
R5 - L - (1-2) - MUD
And a few notes..
- Cavern was very good. Only came up as a mana issue once.
- Crop Rotation was generally Cradle (as a Ritual) or Cavern.
- Deck felt like it wanted Wirewood even more than normal.
- White splash felt awkward to fetch into at times. Rarely came up though.
- Miracles match felt much easier than usual. I generally think it's near even, but it felt slightly favorable today - especially with some increased odds in game one.
Tusk up.
(Not so) Current Decks: GB Elves, GW Maverick, GWb Maverick, LED Dredge, ANT, TES, Jund Storm.
I'm sorry and I know it's off-topic, but....
Oof. That's quite a spew unless entry fees were ~$50. Kind of story that makes you worry about Legacy.Originally Posted by haganbmj
BORN TO PLOW
META IS A FUCK
GRIP EM ALL 1989
I am green man
410,757,864,530 DEAD TOPS
It was $40 entry in the Baltimore Convention Center. They put out at least a hundred table numbers and had ~8 judges or something, so I'm sure they weren't too satisfied with the attendance.
Tusk up.
(Not so) Current Decks: GB Elves, GW Maverick, GWb Maverick, LED Dredge, ANT, TES, Jund Storm.
Hey guys,
they published my very first pre-recorded Daily Event video with Elves. It has has a couple of comments of on deckbuilding in current Legacy.
Check it out on http://mindsportsacademy.com/Article...0Julian%20Knab
Hope you're enjoying my matches against a couple of fancy brews :-)
Julian
The seven cardinal sins of Legacy:
1. Discuss the unbanning ofLand TaxEarthcraft.
2. Argue that banning Force of Will would make the format healthier.
3. Play Brainstorm without Fetchlands.
4. Stifle Standstill.
5. Think that Gaea's Blessing will make you Solidarity-proof.
6. Pass priority after playing Infernal Tutor.
7. Fail to playtest against Nourishing Lich (coZ iT wIlL gEt U!).
Those were some pretty brewy brews. Good matches! I wonder what the round 3 guy was playing. I didn't like the Zenith for Ranger against Delver game 1, I would have gotten symbiote there. He still lets you untap DRS for racing, but gives you an engine for drawing cards and also the ability to fog/rec sage the batterskull when it comes up. (Plus, as you mentioned, it would have been great when you ripped that glimpse).
BORN TO PLOW
META IS A FUCK
GRIP EM ALL 1989
I am green man
410,757,864,530 DEAD TOPS
Huge congratz Julian
Destroyed in MKM Milan with Chaos Elves
Here's a link to a description of the championship match, with photos.
http://series.magiccardmarket.eu/201...s-julian-knab/
LoR
Any deck lists for Julian's deck?
http://series.magiccardmarket.eu/cov.../#top8profiles
IT SHOULD BE ON THAT PAGE
SRY CAPS LOL
THANKS FOR THE LINK, SHAG. ;)
Here's the list for simplicity.
Tusk up.
(Not so) Current Decks: GB Elves, GW Maverick, GWb Maverick, LED Dredge, ANT, TES, Jund Storm.
Hi and first, congrats Julian!
I really like your NOless build. Especialy the possibility to T2 Teeg storm.
I've always been fan of a MD multi GSZ-targets oriented build.
I have a couple questions thought:
- what about NO as a one of? You already have a hoof, and sage, WRP, Ooze, SotP so it offers a lot of utility.
- why run Thalia over Thorn? It may forces you to fetch savannah while you want bayou for discard against thorn, open you to massacre and eventual -1/-1 effects. I can imagine that Thalia is ok vs miracle while thorn isn't playable there.
- why did you favor 2nd Llanowar over 4th quirion or 2nd birchlore?
- how much did you like crop? What about a 2nd one over the 4th craddle main for one bog SB, for more utility vs lands, ANT, S&T, rea?
- I felt that WRP and SotP were battling for the same slot. Was it great running both?
Congrats again!
(I addressed my question to Julian, but of course more than welcome answers from you all)
I think this is a good direction to move in with the deck - Elves is a midrange deck at heart, and our "Shardless mode" is the one thing the deck does truly excellently. Furthermore, WRP is near a win button in many fair gamestates, so needing NO for the oops feels suspect. G1 vs. Storm we still don't have disruption, but this build gains a ton in speed from GSZ@2 being a kill and having more manadorks to do it T2. Glimpses get more threatening, too, esp. because GSZ@2 is a kill from Glimpse. It in practice also ups our count of realistic kills vs. Storm (3 NO, kinda 4 Glimpse => 4 GSZ, 4 Glimpse, raw Teeg). Teeg & Cavern do work vs. Miracles, too. 1 Arbor for less clunky draws and more real lands, I love as well.
Overall, I think it's a build that just plays to the deck's strengths - lots of creatures, midrange grindy gameplan vs. fair decks, good beatdowns vs. Miracles, Teeg as a trump for Storm. Can go wide, can go big, and do good damage indirectly. It's a work of art, all told. If only they printed a green Thalia.
I'd maybe consider a second Crop Rotation instead of a second Needle.
Interesting. I love NO but this NOless build intrigues me.
So if i understand correctly: our worst matchups are Miracles and Storm. Having NO doesn't help either of them because NO is clunky vs storm and near useless against miracles with terminus and removal up the ass. However, NO really shines in the fair matchups (Jund, BUG, Delver, DnT, etc) where we're favored anyways. So basically we're trading NO for more mana dorks, more disruption, and basically matchups across the board. So instead of being like 65-35 against fair decks and 35-65 against miracles/storm, we becomes closer to 50-50 against miracles/storm and 60-40 against the fair decks.
Don't know about percentages but yeah.
If your access to RecSage is limited by not running NO and with Miracles & Chalice.dec running rampant, I think you should stock up on them
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I think Miracles and Storm are bad matchups but not as bad as the trainwreck that is Show and Tell matchups. This build gives us Teeg against Sneak, though.
BORN TO PLOW
META IS A FUCK
GRIP EM ALL 1989
I am green man
410,757,864,530 DEAD TOPS
what's the lands tech if you pull NO?
Uh... Ooze, I guess?
Ok gents, since Julian dropped this gem in our laps but went afk when the questions flooded in, I decided to take matters upon myself to test this in a "fairly" competitive event. It wasn't a gp or an open, but the meta contained no joke decks and all the players I went up against were at least competent and knew their decks well.
(disclaimer: I don't blame him, it's just atypical from most players who find something fun/good. I'm sure he's a busy guy!)
Since I am at work atm and don't have time for a full match by match write-up I'll share my thoughts which can sum things up in regard to the deck.
1. I wanted NO basically the entire event. I could see shaving down to 2-3 copies, but losing our "I win" button hurt more than a few times. I had several glimpse turns where if they just had a pyroclasm afterward I all but lost...I had several fair decks which normally scoop to progenitus beat me because my deck consisted of mostly abrupt-decayable, lightning-boltable duders. If I had access to 4-mana 20+ dmg or 10/10 screw you, I would've won more games plus the same games I won anyway...but easier.
2. The deck basically plays the same, but having the main deck teeg and ooze was nice. Obv Teeg is a non-bo with NO, so I wouldn't ever play the two together in the main...but I think scooze main and teeg sb might be a consideration going forward.
3. WRP should be in everyone's 75 by now. The only exception is if you play in a super combo meta...otherwise the card is the stone colds. It wins games that you can't win with NO, glimpse, etc. So many decks fear this card that don't even know they fear this card... it's hilarious and stupid good.
4. Cavern of Souls is the bees knees. I feel bad for the people who were suggesting this card in the past couple years and were met with statements from forum regulars such as "unplayable garbage," "not a forest--gtfo," and "lol cavern??." This card beats miracles, chalice decks and to a lesser extent, delver decks. Setting it to creature type-Beast is particularly hilarious vs your blue opponent who has kept the same 2-3 cards in hand all game (repping FoW).
5. The added noncreature spells were great too...crop rotation and library main won me a few games, by extending glimpse turns when I'd normally have run out of mana-- or by presenting yet another must-counter threat that would take over the game if left unchecked.
6. I won the event, but it was pure luck that I even made top 8-- one dark confidant dealt 11 damage to his controller over 3 turns, and another opponent's Ad Nauseam dealt 20 dmg to its controller on turn 2 on the play...
TL:DR version: Chaos Elves is good, fun, and challenging; and harkens back to what makes the deck great overall--the grindy midrange strategy. That being said, I probably won't playing this deck over the NO version unless the meta is like 25%+ storm and miracles (vast majority)...because the deck definitely seems ready to prey on a very specific metagame.
Elves! is still Elves! and is still jawesome.
I played few test games against friends and i have pretty same experience like u.Ok gents, since Julian dropped this gem in our laps but went afk when the questions flooded in, I decided to take matters upon myself to test this in a "fairly" competitive event. It wasn't a gp or an open, but the meta contained no joke decks and all the players I went up against were at least competent and knew their decks well.
(disclaimer: I don't blame him, it's just atypical from most players who find something fun/good. I'm sure he's a busy guy!)
Since I am at work atm and don't have time for a full match by match write-up I'll share my thoughts which can sum things up in regard to the deck.
1. I wanted NO basically the entire event. I could see shaving down to 2-3 copies, but losing our "I win" button hurt more than a few times. I had several glimpse turns where if they just had a pyroclasm afterward I all but lost...I had several fair decks which normally scoop to progenitus beat me because my deck consisted of mostly abrupt-decayable, lightning-boltable duders. If I had access to 4-mana 20+ dmg or 10/10 screw you, I would've won more games plus the same games I won anyway...but easier.
2. The deck basically plays the same, but having the main deck teeg and ooze was nice. Obv Teeg is a non-bo with NO, so I wouldn't ever play the two together in the main...but I think scooze main and teeg sb might be a consideration going forward.
3. WRP should be in everyone's 75 by now. The only exception is if you play in a super combo meta...otherwise the card is the stone colds. It wins games that you can't win with NO, glimpse, etc. So many decks fear this card that don't even know they fear this card... it's hilarious and stupid good.
4. Cavern of Souls is the bees knees. I feel bad for the people who were suggesting this card in the past couple years and were met with statements from forum regulars such as "unplayable garbage," "not a forest--gtfo," and "lol cavern??." This card beats miracles, chalice decks and to a lesser extent, delver decks. Setting it to creature type-Beast is particularly hilarious vs your blue opponent who has kept the same 2-3 cards in hand all game (repping FoW).
5. The added noncreature spells were great too...crop rotation and library main won me a few games, by extending glimpse turns when I'd normally have run out of mana-- or by presenting yet another must-counter threat that would take over the game if left unchecked.
6. I won the event, but it was pure luck that I even made top 8-- one dark confidant dealt 11 damage to his controller over 3 turns, and another opponent's Ad Nauseam dealt 20 dmg to its controller on turn 2 on the play...
TL:DR version: Chaos Elves is good, fun, and challenging; and harkens back to what makes the deck great overall--the grindy midrange strategy. That being said, I probably won't playing this deck over the NO version unless the meta is like 25%+ storm and miracles (vast majority)...because the deck definitely seems ready to prey on a very specific metagame.
Elves! is still Elves! and is still jawesome.
Unfortunatly i didnt play against miracles or storm...
But i missed NO very often... especially againts stompy deck
I agree, that should be nice to keep 2 copies in main. But this decision probably force you to put second hoof to main.
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