The list is clearly tailor-made for the GW build and it still proves that the development goes in the right direction! It shows also some cards against the common colorless Eldrazi Builds that running rampant now. It should be interesting to see if the Meta will use more of the named Hate-Stuff, if Eldrazi become a real legacy contender.Originally Posted by Barook
First, i read all your posts about DnT/Batterskull, i clearly see it not as an issue (besides T1 Vial followed with Manadenial for several Turns). Second I can't understand, that you dislike the GW Idea, because it easily take care of Batterskull and other Equipment and is full with tools that will help vs DnT stuff. (Karakas, Manlands, Talisman/Mox, All is Dust!, World Breaker, Jitte, Displacer). I also won a game vs Smasher equipt with Batterskull (which is more scary than most DnT Creatures), cast World Breaker vs Skull and block/kill Smasher all day long...
And why you don't understand that Displacer is so good and that Rest in Peace is not only here for Reanimator Hate (hint: Gofy, Lands etc.) There is no reason to discuss the idea behind the cards if you understand what matchups can be problematic for Eldrazi.
I am glad that you also use this tech. I imagine a similar situation against MUD, they will have a hard time against this Combo (and All is Dust/Ugin is also pretty bad tech vs Eldrazi). Priest also take care of most forgemaster shenanigans.
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I think the problematic permanents are widely immune to Wasteland Strangler: What does it help against Emrakul, Griselbrand, Ensnaring Bridge, Humility, Moat, Worship, ... (see some posts above).
We should more go into a direction like the white and GW versions which try to be a generally good deck with undercosted stuff and lots of solutions to "everything".
The Strangler is not that - he needs to first be turned on to do anything and then he is ok against creature, but he is in an undesirable color.
Chalice on 1
SSG is castable under moon which is way more relevant if you play colorless.
I think CotV technically is counter-magic. Most of the creatures also dodge Bolt, CB, and Decay (and unlike MUD beaters the also dodge Disenchant).
Creatures are not all this deck has. It has lock pieces too!
Incidentally, have you consdered that creature decks are currently weak because Miracles and Storm are currently prominent? Eldrazis Shops should have solid MUs against both these decks.
- Eldrazi.dec may be Modern legal right now, but I can't see it staying that way for very long. Most likely this deck is actually too strong for Modern.
- Modern Eldrazi doesn't have Tomb or City of Traitors. running 14-16 sol lands is a big part of what makes Eldrazi Shops more appealing than traditional MUD. Some people think that MUD only needs a little boost in consistency to be tier one. Extra sol lands plus a smoother curve should provide consistency. Other people believe MUD is already sufficiently competitive but needs a wider player base to really make a splash. Disgruntled banned-out Modern players should provide that in spades!
Supremacy 2020 is the modern era game of nuclear brinksmanship! My blog:
https://fieldmarshalshandbook.wordpress.com
You can play Lands.dec in EDH too! My primer:
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/t...lara-lands-dec
I think that's a good reason to run SSG, but then again that depends on your game plan. If you use Jitte's SSG might be better, but if you're running World Breakers I think ESG is better due to the cast trigger giving you a hard-out against Blood Moon. Blood Moon is played in Imperial Painter, red Mud variants, Dragon Stompy and Miracles. Out of these match-ups I think the SSG plan is viable against Miracles, but loses against the other decks because 2/2 equipped creature isn't going to help you (Jitte might help against Imperial Painter, but they may as well just blast it or combo you out before you get enough counters to do something about it). That said, World Breaker costing 6 lands and an ESG is a lot to ask.
No clear answer before I get in more testing with the various builds, but good point Gheizen.
I said "if you play colorless" which implied no World Breakers. If you play World breaker ESG is probably better, but if you run World breaker you also probably don't want to run a spirit guide in the first place :p
Eldrazi Shops is colorless but plays Mox Diamond and 2 sideboard World Breakers though.
I answered that list intentionally with maindeck cards to show the deck has outs to most things. After boarding, it gets even better when you have access to Priest, Thorn, etc.
If Duplicant could be tutored with Conduit, it would be nice. But as it stands, Priest does almost the same with Displacer for a way cheaper price.
On the xSG vs Mox diamond debate:
In general, i think in a deck with so many sol lands, xSG are better than diamonds.
If you have 2 land starter
- Mox and xSG give you the same mana T1, but only the hand with xSG can have 4 mana T2 as you could have 2 sol lands in hand.
On the other hand, with a 3 land starter,
- mox and xSG give you the same mana T1, but mox can also give you 5 mana T2 instead of 4 mana T2. Again, SSG is better on T3 because you are 5 mana potential vs 6 mana potential.
Basically, if you have an X-lander hand, mox diamond give you better mana in the turns 1<turns<X. SSG give the same mana on T1, and better on turn X. 1-landers with moxens are unkeepable, with xSG they are slightly better but still unkeepable in most situations. 2 and 3-landers which are the most common hands, are described above. 4 landers are debatable, but you probably don't keep what is essentially a 2 business spell hand. SSG could be marginally better as it could work as a slow clock, especially if you have a T1 chalice. 5 landers + accelleration is a mull.
When you have multiple accelleration pieces, moxens are way worse than SSG, but both are really bad.
Mox has also the ability to cycle multiple legendary lands. This is more relevant if you run like 4 ugins and 4 traitors obviously. And Crucible of Worlds too. Mox also can give you colored mana which is relevant for Dismember, and in case you run colored eldrazis.
xSG can be emergencly casted as grey ogres and are castable (SSG) under blood moon. It's also good to kill dazes, and isn't effected by spheres effects. They also get better in lists with equipments. It also make Eye of ugin activations easier as it doesn't make you discard sol lands so you get to 7 mana faster in most cases.
Gemstone Cavern as a 1 or 2-of (plus 1 more in side) is also essentially a mox diamond on the draw, but with way less drawbacks if not drew on T1 , and able to give you C as well.
That said, in a pure colorless list, i'd run 3 SSG and 1-2 caverns (plus 1 in sb) in place of mox diamonds. I'd also run a single jitte and sofai to make Warping Wails and SSG a bit more relevant. No crucible either, so possibly factories in place of wastelands. 2-3 Traitors and 3 Ugins to avoid multiples early on which are awkward.
If you run some colored spells/eldrazis and/or crucibles, moxens become more interesting. I'd max on watelands for wastelocks with crucibles. Play some colored spells to make diamond slightly more relevant. 4 Traitors become more appealing, as well as 4 ugins.
Just my 2 cents.
EDIT: i did a mistake in the turn evaluation, as i assumed you always fire up xSG on T1 (which is probably often because you want chalice T1, but not always). It's not only about the first and X turn, the point is that SSG can give you more maximum mana because it doesn't remove you your lands, as well as giving you a +1 mana boost for 1 turn. Which is less relevant than Moxens the more lands you have, and the higher your curve. To elaborate a bit on this, if you have a three land starters, you still can have 5 mana turn 2 with SSG like with moxen, you'll just have 1 less mana T1 (2 vs 3 or 1 vs 2). Which, i think, make for a bit better of case for xSG. With three lands and a ESG for example, this mean that you could even get 7 (world breaker) mana on T3 whereas you'd be need a fourth land.
Last edited by Gheizen64; 02-19-2016 at 01:07 PM.
Played in a small 5-rounder yesterday. Beat ANT, Eureka-Tell, and Infect. Lost to D+T and Abzan Nic Fit.
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Eye of Ugin
1 Karakas
2 Mishra's Factory
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Wasteland
2 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Endbringer
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Endless One
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
3 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Trinisphere
2 Tangle Wire
1 Umezawa's JItte
3 Warping Wail
Sideboard
3 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Pithing Needle
3 Ratchet Bomb
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Dismember
Observations:
- Was trying out Tangle Wire for the first time in a competitive setting - wasn't good at all, actually. Always felt really win-more.
- Revokers were bleh as usual, still don't really feel like the deck needs that in the maindeck.
- Endbringer was great and people should play more of him.
- Simian Spirit Guide was also great, and I think 3 is about the right number. You want a little extra help to power out 3ball and Chalice on turn 1, but you don't need to overload on it.
At this point, I've tried nearly every single sphere or artifact lock piece, and they have all been disappointing except Chalice, Trinisphere, and Warping Wail. I am starting to think that maybe I should just be less interactive and play Matter Reshaper, if only because it falls on the right spot on the curve. I know he kind of sucks. But a thing that happened often was that if I had only one Sol land in the opener, I got stuck with turn 1 Chalice/Endless One/Mimic and didn't have a good turn 2 play. I'd be happy to try out -2 Tangle Wire, -2 Revoker, +4 Matter Reshaper going forward. This makes the deck a lot more like a normal linear aggro deck, but maybe that's ok.
I like this idea better than slowing the deck down for colored reactive cards like World Breaker and Eldrazi Displacer. Having reliable T1 spheres is basically this deck's only saving grace against combo, and having to cut Sol lands like people are doing and play Talismans (which are -1 mana net the turn you play them) instead of accelerants like SSG seems like it makes that angle much, much worse.
I like the Gemstone Cavern as well as the Spirit Guide - How about this:
4x Ancient Tomb
3x Cavern of Souls
4x City of Traitors
4x Eldrazi Temple
3x Eye of Ugin
1x Gemstone Caverns
1x Karakas
4x Wasteland
3x Warping Wail
4x Eldrazi Mimic
3x Endbringer
4x Endless One
2x Phyrexian Revoker
4x Reality Smasher
4x Simian Spirit Guide
4x Thought-Knot Seer
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Thorn of Amethyst
Sideboard
1x Dismember
4x Faerie Macabre
1x Grafdigger's Cage
3x Pithing Needle
3x Ratchet Bomb
2x Umezawa's Jitte
1x Warping Wail
This is closer to a Dragon Stompy manabase if you count the Waselands as spells (20 lands, 4 SSG) - maybe we should play Trinisphere. The Thorns have been a bit lackluster to me.
Last edited by hofzge; 02-20-2016 at 05:22 AM.
Chalice on 1
3-0'd Friday Legacy tonight. Technically it was 2-0-1 splitting the final round, but we played the match out for fun and data and I won 4 of 5 games. He was playing Burn. So much for that deck being an "auto-loss." >_>
I also beat Elves and Esper Deathblade.
We're still keeping the full list under wraps for this weekend, but I can tell you we've settled on a colorless Shops list without Moxen or Spirit Guides.
The real test will be Sunday. We're testing more tomorrow and we'll be playing 7 rounds of Swiss on Sunday. I'll update when the dust has settled.
Roses are colorless.
Violets are colorless.
Everything is nothing.
Can you disclose your sideboard at all?
I went 3-1 last night we my list and my only lose was to elves. I'm curious how you sideboarded against elves.
I said "Fuck it" and bought back into MTGO with my GW build since I'm fully convinced the deck is the real deal. I'll also track all all pre- & post-board wins as well as total match %.
Went 2-3 on the first run, but got also unlucky since I got 2 bad match-ups. Losses were against Burn, Lands (ugh) and Shardless BUG (made some mistakes here). Wins were against Deathblade and LED Dredge.
I cut my Thorns for more removal. It was the only thing that really was available to me based on my sideboard. Keep in mind it was my first time piloting the deck.
One of my testing partners showed up halfway through the round and gave me advice on the matchup after it was over. He basically said, kill all mana dorks on site. Shut off whatever seems most likely with Revoker. Keep them from doing broken stuff and your creatures will eventually outclass theirs.
Roses are colorless.
Violets are colorless.
Everything is nothing.
Went 3-1-1 but drew on the 5th turn due to slow playing opponent. I had tks + reality smasher + jitte, he was on 1 eith no board and 1 card in hand.
2-0 omniscience
2-0 delver
1-2 goblins (wasteland and rishadan ports are problematic)
2-0 burn
1-1 stoneblade
Build was suboptimal due to mail not arriving. World breaker is a beast, never leaving him out of the 75 again.
Considering serum powder as i mulled 5 times alone in the first 2 matches.
I sided in 2 gutshots for dnt/elves/infect/lackey/mimics/dark confidant. If you play urborgs, consider perish
I play 3 Warping Wail main which seems to be very good verses those matchups. I play 1 all is Dust in the sideboard and won me a game vs elves. I'm considering going to 2.
I play 4 Warping Wail, 2 Dismember main and 2 All is Dust sideboard.
From the Ashes is a disgusting card against us. Almost won twice vs Miracles post-board before it wrecked my shit each game.
Finally faced some S&T. G2 was really satisfying:
Opponent plays T2 S&T into Griselbrand, I put in Displayer with activation mana up next turn. He draws 14 of Grisel and plays another S&T. Since I expect Sneak Attack shenanigans, I do the right thing:
No sneaky noodle monsters, just a perma-exiled Griselbee and a dead opponent next turn. It's nice to see my opponent doing all the work for me.
Krosen Grip has been solid so far. I'm thinking about adding a third Containment Priest due to its usefulness in various unfair match-ups or just going ham with Displacer in matches where you don't have anything else to board in. Not sure what to cut - maybe I'm going down to 2 Ratchet Bombs again.
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