[Primer/Deck] Nic Fit

[Ricardio]

i 5-0'd a league see above.

[Arianrhod]

What if any of your card selection decisions were because of MODO availability? I'm guessing none since you've been on there for forever, but I wanted to check.

Otherwise seems fine. Not quite my flavor, but there's nothing wrong with that.

I've been testing vs Eldrazi at home (proxied up a list close to what I expect Delvis's list to be, since his team has put in the most work with the deck at this point). So far it's been a positive matchup overall. There are games we lose, certainly, but by and large the sacrifice to consistency over explosiveness compared to Metalworker MUD seems to allow us to actually play a game.

The more control I've gone (the more removal in the list), the worse the matchup seems to be. They're going to focus on getting a Chalice@1 pretty heavily, so I don't like Path to Exile at all. That being said, when they don't have Chalice, Path is great -- and it's good vs a lot of the rest of the room, so.

I am very much more concerned about the explosive growth of RG Lands as a result of their very favorable Eldrazi matchup. Lands is a serious problem for us and if it's gaining that much popularity, we need to worry about it...especially because of the window for fast combo's re-entry that it allows. Belcher is threatening to be very, very good in the upcoming metagame a couple weeks from now.

[Ricardio]

What if any of your card selection decisions were because of MODO availability? I'm guessing none since you've been on there for forever, but I wanted to check.

Otherwise seems fine. Not quite my flavor, but there's nothing wrong with that.

I've been testing vs Eldrazi at home (proxied up a list close to what I expect Delvis's list to be, since his team has put in the most work with the deck at this point). So far it's been a positive matchup overall. There are games we lose, certainly, but by and large the sacrifice to consistency over explosiveness compared to Metalworker MUD seems to allow us to actually play a game.

The more control I've gone (the more removal in the list), the worse the matchup seems to be. They're going to focus on getting a Chalice@1 pretty heavily, so I don't like Path to Exile at all. That being said, when they don't have Chalice, Path is great -- and it's good vs a lot of the rest of the room, so.

I am very much more concerned about the explosive growth of RG Lands as a result of their very favorable Eldrazi matchup. Lands is a serious problem for us and if it's gaining that much popularity, we need to worry about it...especially because of the window for fast combo's re-entry that it allows. Belcher is threatening to be very, very good in the upcoming metagame a couple weeks from now.

The windswepts over verdant(i havent noticed a difference)
Lotv missing.
That is it for cards i dont play because i dont have them.

[Echelon]

@Ricardio: Nice job on the league. What were your MUs?

[Bobmans]

i 5-0'd a league see above.

Well done.

I've been testing vs Eldrazi at home (proxied up a list close to what I expect Delvis's list to be, since his team has put in the most work with the deck at this point). So far it's been a positive matchup overall. There are games we lose, certainly, but by and large the sacrifice to consistency over explosiveness compared to Metalworker MUD seems to allow us to actually play a game.

The more control I've gone (the more removal in the list), the worse the matchup seems to be. They're going to focus on getting a Chalice@1 pretty heavily, so I don't like Path to Exile at all. That being said, when they don't have Chalice, Path is great -- and it's good vs a lot of the rest of the room, so.

I am very much more concerned about the explosive growth of RG Lands as a result of their very favorable Eldrazi matchup. Lands is a serious problem for us and if it's gaining that much popularity, we need to worry about it...especially because of the window for fast combo's re-entry that it allows. Belcher is threatening to be very, very good in the upcoming metagame a couple weeks from now.

Fast combo is going to be an issue for us, but i am not sure how that is going to develop.

That said, Path to Exile takes in imprtant role in both Lands and Eldrazi MU. Looking at alternative creature removal anything gets more narrow (Dismemeber, Go for the Throat, Diabolic Edict, Terminate, Punishing Fire, just to name a few).
VS the Lands MU our best weapon seems to be Surgical Extraction. Since that cards is already within our "standard" gameplan we might aswell stay close to what we do already.
Plus Path to Exile is obviously an all star vs basically every creature based deck.
So in the end, the Eldrazi MU seems to resolve around hitting Chalice with Therapy/Decay/Deed, take out beef like TKS/Smasher with Path and possible sweep with Deed and finally locking the board with "bigger" or "better" creatures.
In testing i felt like we (junk) have a good game against Eldrazi, but it takes some manouvring to overcome them in time. Siege Rhino in this MU is not bad, but also it can fall short. And lists run 1-3 Dismember.

All in all, i do feel Junk to be good choice yet i am uncomfortable with it and feel that i/we must also look into another direction. In this regard i am more and more drawn to BUG colors to provide more value to the table (recurring Strix for example), while being able to shift to combo-hate game 2/3 (FoW/Surgical Extraction). This are yet just "gut feelings" but i am curious to further see how you or others think towards the direction NicFit might or should go to combat in this shifting meta.

[Echelon]

Junk vs. BUG to me comes down to do you want to focus more on combat or on the combo MU.

Junk is better equiped to handle opposing creatures and combat, BUG is better equiped to handle the combo MU.

It's probably a meta call. BUG's combat capabilities can be improved with a Glissa, the Traitor that can also provide some added value when combined with Strix (which falls in the realm of cute but possible). For the lands MU you could fall back on Submerge to deal with Merit Lage. Try to recur w/ Meren & Eternal Witness for the win.

[helvetios]

i 5-0'd a league see above.

Congrats!
A question to you (and anyone else playing a one-of vindicate/maelstrom pulse): wouldn't it be better to run council's judgement? gets around hexproof, indestructible (marit lage), doesn't target (if i am not misinformed), so takes out reality smashers. it doesn't kill problematic lands, but in the lands-MU, they just get returned with loam anyway. double white could be a bit awkward early game, but i think between verteran/deathrite we should manage to get it consistently? what do you guys think?

[Bobmans]

Congrats!
A question to you (and anyone else playing a one-of vindicate/maelstrom pulse): wouldn't it be better to run council's judgement? gets around hexproof, indestructible (marit lage), doesn't target (if i am not misinformed), so takes out reality smashers. it doesn't kill problematic lands, but in the lands-MU, they just get returned with loam anyway. double white could be a bit awkward early game, but i think between verteran/deathrite we should manage to get it consistently? what do you guys think?

Sorcery speed is "never" a solution against Marit Lage. A Lands pilot will always try to create the token at the end of your turn.

[Echelon]

Sorcery speed is "never" a solution against Marit Lage. A Lands pilot will always try to create the token at the end of your turn.

Yup. So always keep that W open to threaten with the PtE (regardless of if you actually have it or not).

[helvetios]

Sorcery speed is "never" a solution against Marit Lage. A Lands pilot will always try to create the token at the end of your turn.

Yeah, you're right. Could council's judgement still be of use in some matchups? Maybe cloudpost when they go for an ulamog? Or is the option to destroy a land more important?

[Echelon]

Yeah, you're right. Could council's judgement still be of use in some matchups? Maybe cloudpost when they go for an ulamog? Or is the option to destroy a land more important?

Same thing. PtE answers Ulamog for 1 mana instead of 3 and at instant speed to boot, so why bother?

[Jain_Mor]

See Ricardio, league is much better :P
Congrats, what were your matchups? Did you fight miracles? What was your sideboard plan?

At the moment my most consistent losses are to my self, and then miracles (though my sample size isnt that big)

[Bobmans]

At the moment my most consistent losses are to my self, and then miracles (though my sample size isnt that big)

Hahaha lol. Nice one.
Anyway, i also found the Miracles Mentor MU disturbingly difficult. Unlike PFire NicFit.

[rubblekill]

Congratz Ricardio, my man. From the 3 s games its clear that you really hate that miracles mu! When do you board in the full 3 copies?

[Warden]

Congrats Ricardio! Very nice streamlined list.
How was 0 tusk for ya?

[Ricardio]

@Ricardio: Nice job on the league. What were your MUs?

They are on the previous page

Well done.

Thanks, man.

Congrats!
A question to you (and anyone else playing a one-of vindicate/maelstrom pulse): wouldn't it be better to run council's judgement? gets around hexproof, indestructible (marit lage), doesn't target (if i am not misinformed), so takes out reality smashers. it doesn't kill problematic lands, but in the lands-MU, they just get returned with loam anyway. double white could be a bit awkward early game, but i think between verteran/deathrite we should manage to get it consistently? what do you guys think?

Vindicate was absolutely invaluable. Killing lands was impressive along with "flashback" by ewit. 10/10 one of.

Yeah, you're right. Could council's judgement still be of use in some matchups? Maybe cloudpost when they go for an ulamog? Or is the option to destroy a land more important?

Between pte and karakas, you don't need anything else. CJ was poor in my testing.

See Ricardio, league is much better :P
Congrats, what were your matchups? Did you fight miracles? What was your sideboard plan?

At the moment my most consistent losses are to my self, and then miracles (though my sample size isnt that big)

Luckily, I got to dodge miracles bc that deck gives me a headache. Plan is to cut the superfluous stuff and add threats. games terminus and jace etc.

Congratz Ricardio, my man. From the 3 s games its clear that you really hate that miracles mu! When do you board in the full 3 copies?

Thanks man. I brought it in a few times but its mostly for combo and miracles.

Congrats Ricardio! Very nice streamlined list.
How was 0 tusk for ya?

Thank you. Its a labor of love.
It felt absolutely fine. most of the time you want rhino or sigarda and tusk is just an afterthought. Tuskless was fine.

thanks for all the feedback and praise. Makes me excited to continue working on this deck.

[Bobmans]

Congratz Ricardio, my man. From the 3 s games its clear that you really hate that miracles mu!

Thinking about SGames vs the current Miracles it is not so much more threatening. They run less Entreat, some 1 some even 0. between 2-4 Mentor. 1-2 Clique and 1-3 Snapcaster Mage. Still SGames hits Jace, which is the most annoying card, but it feels like that SGames doesn't perfom like it used to. How do others feel about this card vs Miracles?

[Ricardio]

Thinking about SGames vs the current Miracles it is not so much more threatening. They run less Entreat, some 1 some even 0. between 2-4 Mentor. 1-2 Clique and 1-3 Snapcaster Mage. Still SGames hits Jace, which is the most annoying card, but it feels like that SGames doesn't perfom like it used to. How do others feel about this card vs Miracles?

I bring it in to deal with jace and terminus. Those are their best cards against us. We have decay/deed for their counterbalance/mentor. running out rhinos is unbeatable when they have no jtms or term.

[Nerubian]

Hi guys, potential new Nic Fit player here. As someone moving from Modern into Legacy - I enjoy these decks that seem to play the oddest cards/toolbox decks. I played Pod, followed by now Abzan Company in modern as a reference.

Moving into Legacy the Junk Rhino version of Nic Fits seems to excite me in odd ways. I like the idea of casting Standard Staples like Thragtusk and Rhino or EDH cards like Meren, Titania or Sigarda in a format notorious for playing 'the best cards'.

Now, a few questions for you - Besides 4 Cabal/Vetern and some mixture of Deeds/Rhino/Fatties what is core to the deck. Is top a necessity to the deck - or would more draw/tutors be alright.

This is something i'm looking at right now - tell me what I'm doing wrong guys :)

Land (22)
2x Bayou
1x Dryad Arbor
3x Forest
1x Karakas
1x Phyrexian Tower
2x Plains
2x Savannah
1x Scrubland
2x Swamp
4x Verdant Catacombs
3x Windswept Heath

Creature (16)

3x Deathrite Shaman
1x Eternal Witness
1x Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1x Nissa, Vastwood Seer Flip
1x Scavenging Ooze
3x Siege Rhino
1x Sigarda, Host of Herons
1x Thragtusk
4x Veteran Explorer

Instant (6)

2x Abrupt Decay
4x Path to Exile

Sorcery (12)

4x Cabal Therapy
4x Green Sun's Zenith
3x Painful Truths
1x Vindicate
Enchantment (4)

3x Pernicious Deed
1x Recurring Nightmare

Sideboard (15)

1x Abrupt Decay
1x Deathrite Shaman
1x Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1x Gaddock Teeg
1x Pithing Needle
1x Qasali Pridemage
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2x Thoughtseize
1x Titania, Protector of Argoth
1x Toxic Deluge
1x Vraska the Unseen

[Navsi]

I'd say the common core of most Nic Fit decks is:

4 Cabal Therapy
4 Veteran Explorer
4 Green Sun's Zenith (can be cut in some pod / bug lists)
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Sensei's Divining Top
2+ Abrupt decay
1+ Draw Spell (Truths, Read the Bones, Skeletal Scrying)
1 Eternal Witness
2+ Bayou
2-3 Forest
1-2 Swamp
1-2 Other Basic Land
4 Verdant Catacombs
1-3 Other Green Fetchland

IMO Top is pretty important since you really want some repeatable card selection. You have a lot of variance in your draws, particularly lategame - you play huge bombs like Meren, Sigarda and so on, but also 1/1 dorks like Veteran Explorer. Having card selection lets you leverage your potential excellent topdecks and you access to a large number of shuffle effects.

The only real replacement is Sylvan Library, which has a few advantages (dodging chalice@1 which is already awful, and being free / potential actual draws) but also harms the deck in other ways- mainly, it makes Deed a lot more awkward and is a lot easier to remove since you can Abrupt Decay it.