[Deck] Sneak and Show

[Sigi85]

You're right, FoW will probably be useless against TKS because of Cavern... well, that's the card which scares me the most.
But we have many combo pieces (8x fatties and 8x enablers) and lots of cantrips to find others, so I guess the only lethal combination would be both Chalice @1 (to stop cantrips) and TKS (to remove pieces): one of them alone shouldn't be too problematic.

Your analysis is correct!
in fact i'm moving to play again Through the Breach on my sideboard, card that is a bit i'm not running but can be a one more bomb to play!
i think aslo that a card or 2 between Intuition and Jace tms will have space in my mainboard, to exit better from the Chalice Lock!

[Ciubulu]

I would like to do some questions to the comunity:

-1 Are you so sure that Eldrazi stompy is a good MU? in my opinion about the test on cocka the match is not so obvious... they have lock cards such as Trinisphere and Chalice , and if you aren't able to assemble your combo in the first 3 turn, the eldrazi that exile a card and the 5/5 with haste, could race your life point very fast...is also true, that if you are able to do a fast show and tell, they cant win.

-2 As JPA , i'm testing Kozilek's Retun and the results are really good, the istant speed and devoid are Amazing, i do some really good play with it(resp to a fetch for the Stonforge activation- eot against D&T with mother of the runes and other hate bear).

Bye bye

1 - the best they can do is a Chalice on the play when you have only one piece of the combo in hand. They cannot directly interact with the combo except for TKS and, if they play it, warping weil. They have a very fast clock but I think is definitely a good mu.

2- in my testing the +1 mana is never been a problem and I found kozilek's return is superior to pyroclasm in any other way.


Inviato dal mio iPad utilizzando Tapatalk

[genuine fugazi]

What's the sideboard plan against Grixis Delver? Let's take this list as an example.

My line of thinking:
+2 Kozilek's Return - kills all their threats except for the zombie fish.
+2 Flusterstorm, +1 REB - cheap way to deal with their counterspells.
+1 Boseiju - likely to get wasted, but if it let's you force a S&T through, then it's game over.

-1 Repeal - bouncing a DRS or an elemental token doesn't seem impactful enough.
-2 Force of Will - not that great against discard and we have plenty cheap counterspells postboard.
-1 Preordain, -2 Probe - when in doubt, take some cantrips out :)

Not sure about Blood Moon. They don't seem to have any basics, but they still can play Young Pyromancer, which ends games quickly by itself.

Does this make any sense? :)

[JPA]

Does this make any sense? :)

It does!

I don't bring in Blood Moon, but it can be a viable strategy on the play. It's way too slow on the draw and they can often even let it resolve and win with a Young Pyromancer army backed by REBs and FoWs.

Repeal is much more useful in the matchup than you think, it buys time by bouncing flipped Delvers for U, hits the 1-of Needle many Grixis Delver lists play and is basically never dead.

My boarding plan against Grixis (4c) Delver:

+2 Flusterstorm, +2 Kozilek's Return, +1 Wipe Away (for Needle), +1 Sudden Shock (killing Young Pyromancer buys a huge amount of time), +1 Red Elemental Blast

-3 Gitaxian Probe, -1 Misdirection (doesn't do much against Cabal Therapy and FoW is a bit more versatile, since it can hit hateful cards like Pithing Needle / Clique or even Young Pyromancer if you know they don't have anything else going on), either -3 Force of Will or -2 Force of Will -1 Preordain or -1 Emrakul -2 Force of Will or -1 Emrakul -1 Force of Will -1 Preordain.

This plan might change depending on unusual card-choices from my opponent or my general feel for the opponent/matchup.

Your plan is just as viable and your reasoning makes total sense.

[Ragdoll]

It does!

I don't bring in Blood Moon, but it can be a viable strategy on the play. It's way too slow on the draw and they can often even let it resolve and win with a Young Pyromancer army backed by REBs and FoWs.

Repeal is much more useful in the matchup than you think, it buys time by bouncing flipped Delvers for U, hits the 1-of Needle many Grixis Delver lists play and is basically never dead.

My boarding plan against Grixis (4c) Delver:

+2 Flusterstorm, +2 Kozilek's Return, +1 Wipe Away (for Needle), +1 Sudden Shock (killing Young Pyromancer buys a huge amount of time), +1 Red Elemental Blast

-3 Gitaxian Probe, -1 Misdirection (doesn't do much against Cabal Therapy and FoW is a bit more versatile, since it can hit hateful cards like Pithing Needle / Clique or even Young Pyromancer if you know they don't have anything else going on), either -3 Force of Will or -2 Force of Will -1 Preordain or -1 Emrakul -2 Force of Will or -1 Emrakul -1 Force of Will -1 Preordain.

This plan might change depending on unusual card-choices from my opponent or my general feel for the opponent/matchup.

Your plan is just as viable and your reasoning makes total sense.

Is it possible to get your current list somewhere? (latest version)

[JPA]

Is it possible to get your current list somewhere? (latest version)

Let's take this list as an example.

[Ragdoll]

Oh shit, I've missed it. Sorry and thanks

[genuine fugazi]

Thanks for the feedback JPA.

Repeal is much more useful in the matchup than you think, it buys time by bouncing flipped Delvers for U, hits the 1-of Needle many Grixis Delver lists play and is basically never dead.

Sounds pretty good, maybe I should give it a try :) I'm currently playing with 1x Fire // Ice MD, which also seems like a solid one to keep post sb.

On a slightly unrelated note, I've been playing with 2x Goblin Rabblemaster in SB yesterday (just because I like the card...), with an intention to use it against mirror, Lands and Miracles. Didn't get a chance to try it in those matches, but got some mixed results from 12 Post games. G2 I drew Rabblemaster too late to matter, G3 played him turn 2 and a few turns later my opponent was dead to a gang of goblins
What do you people think about some Rabblemasters in SB?

[Tokugawa]

Did I miss something? I don't see the Eldrazi deck taking over Legacy anytime soon (quote me in a few weeks if I was wrong xD ) and the matchup is close enough to not require specific sideboard answers. Chalice and Trinisphere do nothing against the actual combo part of our deck and Needle/Revoker effects can be fought with bounce spells and Through the Breach (which doesn't get hit by Warping Wail).
The only card out of their deck that actually scares me is Thought-Knot Seer.

This time, you and 2 Eldrazi players reached top8 in the event. Did you meet them during your rounds?

http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=11612&f=LE

[JPA]

This time, you and 2 Eldrazi players reached top8 in the event. Did you meet them during your rounds?

http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=11612&f=LE

The lists posted all went 5-0 in Legacy Leagues over the last few days, so we probably didn't face each other. Funnily enough, my list is from 2014 (Dylan Jones Top 8d both SCGIndy and SCGNash with it, going undefeated in all 18 swiss rounds), I just played it for fun and because I really like how the configuration feels.

I didn't keep record of my matches with the posted list, but with my own current list I faced the Eldrazi deck in 7 matches and went 4-3, which confirms my theory that the matchup is pretty close and even.
I'm 2-5 pre-board (Warping Wail + Revoker can be extremely annoying to deal with if I don't find Repeal) and 8-4 post-board against them. Blood Moon, Through the Breach and Wipe Away give us more outs to whatever they throw at us, so I like our chances post-board.

Boarding plan against Eldrazi:
+2 Through the Breach
+2 Blood Moon
+1 Wipe Away
+2 Kozilek's Return
+1 Sudden Shock

-3 Spell Pierce
-3 Gitaxian Probe
-1 Misdirection
-1 Force of Will

[Sigi85]

The lists posted all went 5-0 in Legacy Leagues over the last few days, so we probably didn't face each other. Funnily enough, my list is from 2014 (Dylan Jones Top 8d both SCGIndy and SCGNash with it, going undefeated in all 18 swiss rounds), I just played it for fun and because I really like how the configuration feels.

I didn't keep record of my matches with the posted list, but with my own current list I faced the Eldrazi deck in 7 matches and went 4-3, which confirms my theory that the matchup is pretty close and even.
I'm 2-5 pre-board (Warping Wail + Revoker can be extremely annoying to deal with if I don't find Repeal) and 8-4 post-board against them. Blood Moon, Through the Breach and Wipe Away give us more outs to whatever they throw at us, so I like our chances post-board.

Boarding plan against Eldrazi:
+2 Through the Breach
+2 Blood Moon
+1 Wipe Away
+2 Kozilek's Return
+1 Sudden Shock

-3 Spell Pierce
-3 Gitaxian Probe
-1 Misdirection
-1 Force of Will

Hi JPA,

As i wrote in some previous post, the MU against Eldrazi can be annoying, their clock is very very fast, and their lock is systematic , the most time when i win is a fast show for Emarkul, praying that they dont have Endbringer (i dont use gitaxian probe).
In this moment there are more eldrazi list (online i faced the GW Barook's List loosing 2 set on 1, his list is even more hateful...), on this purpose i think about a change in my sidebord, what did you think about Blazing Archon? he can bring us more time, and they difficoult remove it.
i also think that Jace tms or/and Intuition, in this moment need a 2 slot in main, for the fact that they didn't go under Chalice of the Void.

Bye

[JPA]

on this purpose i think about a change in my sidebord, what did you think about Blazing Archon? he can bring us more time, and they difficoult remove it.
i also think that Jace tms or/and Intuition, in this moment need a 2 slot in main, for the fact that they didn't go under Chalice of the Void.

I don't think Eldrazi will be popular enough in non-mtgo tournaments to warrant specific sideboard lots. I like my chances against them with my current sideboard.
Blazing Archon seems terribly narrow and does nothing with Sneak Attack and Through the Breach, I'd rather play Propaganda.

Intuition might be a better choice than the 1-of Preordain in my list, if Chalice-decks keep getting more popular.

[Tokugawa]

Hi JPA,

As i wrote in some previous post, the MU against Eldrazi can be annoying, their clock is very very fast, and their lock is systematic , the most time when i win is a fast show for Emarkul, praying that they dont have Endbringer (i dont use gitaxian probe).
In this moment there are more eldrazi list (online i faced the GW Barook's List loosing 2 set on 1, his list is even more hateful...), on this purpose i think about a change in my sidebord, what did you think about Blazing Archon? he can bring us more time, and they difficoult remove it.
i also think that Jace tms or/and Intuition, in this moment need a 2 slot in main, for the fact that they didn't go under Chalice of the Void.

Bye

Thoughtknot seer and Reality smasher have just eaten JTMS for breakfast. His -1 can't buy much time against Eldrazis.

Blazing Archon does not have good synergy with sneak attack. How about trying Ashen Rider?

[Tokugawa]

I didn't keep record of my matches with the posted list, but with my own current list I faced the Eldrazi deck in 7 matches and went 4-3, which confirms my theory that the matchup is pretty close and even.
I'm 2-5 pre-board (Warping Wail + Revoker can be extremely annoying to deal with if I don't find Repeal) and 8-4 post-board against them. Blood Moon, Through the Breach and Wipe Away give us more outs to whatever they throw at us, so I like our chances post-board.

Boarding plan against Eldrazi:
+2 Through the Breach
+2 Blood Moon
+1 Wipe Away
+2 Kozilek's Return
+1 Sudden Shock

-3 Spell Pierce
-3 Gitaxian Probe
-1 Misdirection
-1 Force of Will

Nice analysis. So keep all 4 Petal postboard for a fast combo?

[HeartNana]

Hey guys :)
I am trying this list at the moment (inspired by JPA)
and I'm very happy with it.
MAIN(60):
4 Emrakul,the Aeons Torn
4 Griselbrand
1 Fire/Ice (I prefer it over Repeal)
1 Flusterstorm (I prefer it over Misdirection)
3 Spell Pierce
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Force of Will
3 Gitaxian Probe
1 Preordain
4 Show and Tell
4 Sneak Attack
4 Lotus Petal
1 Polluted Delta
2 City of Traitors
1 Mountain
3 Ancient Tomb
3 Flooded Strand
2 Island
3 Volcanic Island
4 Scalding Tarn
SIDEBOARD(15):
2 Defense Grid (I would never go to a tournament without them)
2 Blood Moon
1 Flusterstorm
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Kozilek's Return
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Sudden Shock
2 Through the Breach
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Wipe Away

At the moment it seems Miracle is a little bit dead and now eldrazi can become the most played decks like modern.
Online you can see them and in regionals the number is also raising.
So maybe we have to change the preordain against intuiton like JPA said a few posts before :p
Blazing archon would be great but not in a deck like sneak show :(
Maybe i will change the clique against an ashen rider for the eldrzi mu.

About kozilek's return I can say this card is fucking awesome against most of our fucking mu's.
1) Death and Taxes it kills mother which is amazing
2) the instant speed against decks infect and dredge ist also very awesome
3) blue elemental blast fail haha
4) i tested a lot of matches against elves and i never had the feeling that i wanted to have pyroclam over it .

[wolfstorm]

Just went undefeated into a top 4 split with the highest standings at GP Houston's legacy showdown, 96 players total - deck list and pairings to come later, only lost 1 game in 7 rounds and 2 in the top 8 :D

[Tokugawa]

Just went undefeated into a top 4 split with the highest standings at GP Houston's legacy showdown, 94 players total - deck list and pairings to come later, only lost 2 games in 7 rounds and 1 in the top 8 :D

Well done! How about the metagame? Is it flooded by Eldrazis?

[Tokugawa]

I don't think Eldrazi will be popular enough in non-mtgo tournaments to warrant specific sideboard lots. I like my chances against them with my current sideboard.
Blazing Archon seems terribly narrow and does nothing with Sneak Attack and Through the Breach, I'd rather play Propaganda.

Intuition might be a better choice than the 1-of Preordain in my list, if Chalice-decks keep getting more popular.

9 Eldrazis players advanced to day 2(total 64 players) of SCG Philly.

Maybe it is time to have some minor tweak to our deck.

[wolfstorm]

Well done! How about the metagame? Is it flooded by Eldrazis?

Two Eldrazi decks out of 96 players, both using similar lists - one went 2-2 drop and the made it to second place, I beat him in the Swiss and after playing out the top 4 for bragging rights (final top 4 was Sneak and show 1st, eldrazi 2nd, Aggro Loam 3rd, and GW Loam knight fourth). 5-8th contained 2 lands, miracles, and I think mud? Also the top table didn't have many blue decks and only one eldrazi, 5 or so burn decks, 2-3 lands, aggro loam, gw knight, only one miracles and only 1-2 delver, didn't see any storm.

My matchups:
R1 Merfolk 2-0
R2 BR Reanimator 2-0
R3 UG infect 2-0
R4 Burn 2-0
R5 Eldrazi 2-1 (2nd place player)
R6 GW Knight Loam 2-0 (fourth place player)
R7 ID
Top 8 Lands 2-1
Finals Eldrazi 2-1 (The other two players wanted to go home after we split top 4 prize)

And finally the deck list that I chose to rock -


//Spells
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Preordain
4 Force of will
4 Spell Pierce
4 Show and Tell

//Enchantments
4 Sneak Attack
2 Omniscience

//Critters
4 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4 Griselbrand

//Mana
4 Lotus Petal
3 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Flooded Strand
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
3 Volcanic Island
3 Island
1 Mountain

//Sideboard
2 Blood Moon
2 Through the Breach
2 Flusterstorm
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Kozilek's Return
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Wipe Away
1 Echoing Truth
1 Pyroclasm
1 Pithing Needle

Putting Omniscience into play is insane vs Karakas / Maze of ith, and makes S&T for Griselbrand stronger, usually enabling a win either on that turn or on the following.

I also was able to Show and tell Omniscience twice in two different games vs Eldrazi on turn 2, both times he dropped a Thought-knot seer, one time hiding a Emrakul ontop and revealing grisel/ponder/petal, the second time hiding Griselbrand off brainstorm which I free casted on the following turn into d14 into Emrakul.

Edit - Funny, I just now realized I managed to make it on camera during r1 - https://twitter.com/CFB_Events/statu...72247999963137

[chuckado]

Do you guys think this deck is well positioned in an open meta such as a GP or a SCG event?

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk