I just imagined how running a W/R build with both Eldrazi Obligator and Displacer sounds like a hilarious way to dominate creatures (shame Obligator is on-cast instead of ETB).Originally Posted by CovenantElite30
Manabase could look somewhat like this:
1 Karakas
3 Battlefield Forge
4 Eldrazi Temple
2 Eye of Ugin
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
2 City of Traitors
4 Wasteland
2 Mox Diamond
3 Simian Spirit Guide
With additional SB Karakas, even Containment Priest might still work as a board card thanks to Cavern (not RiP, though).
EDIT:
If Obligator works (regardless of my silly R/W idea), I would consider lands that tap for C and allow you to sac creatures, like Phyrexian Tower or High Market.
I asked about this one page earlier. The (excellent) response was that it would take something like the addition of 4x Grove of the Burnwillows to make the red splash reliable.
Also, I played this at my LGS last night. My two losses were close games against Nic Fit varieties. These results made me want Winter Orb very badly. It seems like we've given up on discussion around Winter Orb. Has anyone had any new thoughts or results with the card?
Discussing the GW build with MD.Ghost made me reconsider some choices and update my build with "proven" cards and some of the latest tech:
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
3 Eye of Ugin
2 Karakas
4 Brushland
2 Mox Diamond
3 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Conduit of Ruin
2 World Breaker
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Dismember
1 Umezawa's Jitte
With the Cities and ESGs, it becomes alot faster compared to my older build, while also packing more disruption in form of MD Thorn. It still retains its strenghts of Displacer and access to World Breakers. Dismember helps me answering the mirror better.
Not sure about the SB options. Containment Priest might still be runable due to Caverns, but Rest in Peace becomes clunky with the lower amount of white sources. I consider Faerie Macabre as GY hate of choice. A 3rd Karakas is a must (especially with Priest). A 4th Dismember goes into the board. Jitte #2 and All is Dust are options, just like Krosan Grips to get more outs against troublesome permanents.
I despise this archetype, and sadly don't think that they will touch it in Legacy, but your primer seems well written and should be promoted to the Established decks at this point.
I'd like to see a breakdown of the Lands and Infect matchup myself.
Check out my Legacy UBTezz Primer. Chalice of the Void: Keeping Magic Fair.
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Playing since '96. Brief forced break '02-04. Former/Idle Judge since '05. Told Smmenen to play faster at Vintage Worlds.
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Most of the 'Ban brainstorm!' arguments are based on the logic that 'more different cards should get played in Legacy', as though the success or health of the format can be measured by the portion of cards that are available and see play. This is an idiotic metric.
Holly is a Saint! Great Job!
Has there been a consensus on what the ideal number of City of Traitors is? I see lists with 3 and lists with 4, seems like 4 is a bit more common.
I checked http://www.tcdecks.net/archetype.php...&format=Legacy for the numbers.
As i mentioned 3 City of Traitors seems to be the "balanced" number for colorless builds.
I see 11 decks with 3x City of Traitors, 7 decks with the Playset and 1 deck with only two copies and one with 0x City. Since it is not common for everyone to play Spirit Guides or Mox Diamond, runing the full Playset seems like a Gamble.
So 3 copies are ok, if you try a color splash 2x City should be ok, since you need more colored mana (and Mox/Guides).
TEAM MtG Berlin
Harlan Firer's team (Next Ridge Gaming) played 2 in their sideboard at the Open. I think it's a viable choice. I especially like it with a set of Thorns, which I may return to playing soon since Trinisphere has underwhelmed.
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If we're moving this to the Established forum, I'd like to file a motion. Since there's a number of different builds of this deck, including Stompy-like decks and Shops-like decks and ramp-style decks. I move we consolidate them into one name - but rather than it just being "Eldrazi," can we call the deck "My Tentacle Romance"?
This would just make me the happiest.
Roses are colorless.
Violets are colorless.
Everything is nothing.
Today I'm going to add some sample decklists, remove the errors with card tagging because I mispelled the cards (did everything out of memory) and rewrite some minor parts of the matchups-analysis after some feedback.
I guess if no mod is going to move its, I'm just going to repost everything in the established part :)
Anyway which matchups would you like to see covered next?
Infect, Painter, Jund, Bladedecks, Reanimator, Burn and Dredge would be my next choices otherwises.
Just PM Dice_Box, if he feels the primer is adequate I think he'll move it. He might also just be reading the thread.
Roses are colorless.
Violets are colorless.
Everything is nothing.
The deck called "No U" would also fit!
But sadly Eldrazi Stompy is just too widespread by now. Gone are the days with amusing legacy names.
Tentacle Stompy
Modern Smasher
No U
Tentacles in a cup
I have tried a huge number of variations of the deck over the past 2 months but always keep going back to the original cloudpost based build I used as the strongest performance, due to it's more consistent and resilient mana development, and stronger mid/late game.
For reference, here is the current list I'm playing...
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Eye of Ugin
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Cloudpost
3 Glimmerpost
3 Vesuva
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Endless One
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Conduit of Ruin
1 Ulamog's Crusher
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Dismember
2 All is Dust
SB:
3 Trinisphere
2 Wastes
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Dismember
2 Oblivion Sower
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
I would love to get feedback on this build. Thanks.
Explanation of some of the more controversial decisions.
Yes, Eye is legendary but it's such a powerful land for our mana development, it's tutoring effect is so useful in this build, and its always the first target of Wasteland that I don't mind playing 4 even if it means the occasional opening hand with 2 Eye of Ugins.
Glimmerpost while solid is the only land the list plays that doesn't on average produce atleast two mana, this makes it the land I prefer as a 3 of.
The large land count both gives the deck resiliency to wastelands and between Conduit, Eye, All is Dust and the two Ulamog's you rarely mind having tons of mana.
I continue to feel that Conduit of Ruin is the most underrated and underutilized Eldrazi. It's a beater, a mana accelerant and a tutor all in one card.
The sideboard is a metagame choice. The mirror and slower controllish matchups are common and the Oblivion Sowers are solid beaters there and Kozileks are great to side in vs controllish matches. Tendrils sees little play so main deck Thorns aren't worthwhile and Trinisphere is the far more potent mana denial card in all other situations.
Thoughts?
First impression after playing a few games yesterday and today with this list, I do think it has the potential to be very strong. It retains most of the speed of the colorless aggro lists while playing high impact cards like Displacer instead of underwhelming filler like Matter Reshaper. Running City and ESG solves previous speed issues.
After the suggestion of MD.Ghost, I'm gonna try out 2 Conduit/1 World Breaker. I still think Conduit is pretty good if you pair it up with World Breaker, although the accel aspect is kinda overrated since Conduit already costs 6 fucking mana. Depending on how further playtesting turns out, I might also go
-1 City
-1 Eye
-1 Mox Diamond
+3 Wasteland
which would give the deck the Wasteland angle of attack back the colorless version possesses. But first I need to ensure that 4 Displacer still havr enough mana to be reliably castable, since it's a core part of the deck.
While the MD looks promising, I'm still puzzled about the board. It somehow feels unsatisfying, but I can't point my finger onto the issue. It currently looks like this:
3 Containment Priest
1 Dismember
3 Faerie Macabre
2 Krosan Grip
2 Warping Wail
1 Karakas
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 All is Dust
If Priest is too hard to cast with the current white mana, I might go down to 2 copies. I want a certain amount of GY hate, be it Faerie or otherwise. 3rd Karakas is also pretty much set, just as the 4th Dismember.
I'm still looking for more catch-all solutions. Krosan Grip could catch alot of problematic cards (Blood Moon, Moat, Ensnaring Bridge, equipment, SDT, etc). A second World Breaker is a consideration. All is Dust might be another keeper due to its goodness vs control. I'm not completely sold on Wail and 2nd Jitte yet. Revoker might be another card I might want against various decks.
Thoughts?
Why 2/1 split of conduit/World breaker instead of 1/2, what's the point of the intermediate step?
I have died way too many times to 3 City of Traitors now. I have to go down to 2.
Don't you think Endbringer deserves a place in your list? It's been incredible every time I've cast it, and it seems really easy to cast with your mana base.
Re: Eldritch Moon and Emrakul
I've played Endbringer a lot and its been pretty slow everytime I resolved it but I'm willing to give the card another chance. Conduit usually wins the game within a turn or two after it's cast so I'm not willing to cut it. Given that, what card would you cut from my list below to make room for an Endbringer? Dismember? All is Dust? Revoker? Mimic?
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Eye of Ugin
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Cloudpost
3 Glimmerpost
3 Vesuva
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Endless One
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Conduit of Ruin
1 Ulamog's Crusher
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Dismember
2 All is Dust
SB:
2 Trinisphere
2 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Wastes
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Dismember
2 Oblivion Sower
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
I would cut Mimic. If you are going for fatties, then you are on a different plan from beatdown. "Traditional" Eldrazi Stompy wants to beat down and win turn 4-6. The Cloudpost version is more like standard 12-post and wants to make land drops and land a fatty and win turns 6-8 on the back of a resolved fatty along with disruption.
I think your list is lacking disruption - I don't think 2 Dismember is enough.
I also think you want 4 of each Cloud land [Cloudpost, Glimmerpost, and Vesuva] because the lands work better with multiples in play - if you could you would just run 20 Cloudposts, so anything less than 4x seems counterproductive. You are also running 27 lands, so I would cut at least 1 and add some removal.
My land suggestion:
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Vesuva
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
That's 26 land, which is still a lot. 25 might be better. Colorless mana {not generic} is going to be a problem with the Cloudposts lists, unless there is a shift to generic-mana-only Eldrazi Expedition Map is an option that would allow you to run fewer silver-bullet lands like Eye of Ugin and Urborg, ToY.
Another thought on the twelve post list is to drop Eye all together because the Cloudposts provide a lot of generic mana and you need more colorless mana producers like Eldrazi Temple, Ancient Tomb, City of Traitors, Crystal Vein Wasteland, Mishra's Factory, and Cavern of Souls. I think you need at least 14 colorless sources, so with 12 12-post lands, you can't run Eye
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Vesuva
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ancient Tomb
5 of the following - Crystal Vein, Wasteland, Mishra's Factory, Cavern of Souls, Eye of Ugin, Karakas, Tabernacle of the Veil, Glacial Chasm, Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth, {and you're getting into colorless 12 post here...}
4 Expedition Map
or
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Vesuva
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
2 Crystal Vein
Last edited by Water_Wizard; 03-10-2016 at 02:50 AM.
"Never argue with a fool, people might not know the difference."
I have played the colorless version of this deck to death and achieved moderate success with it. From my perspective, I basically don't know why people who are interested in the colored lists are trying to splash so heavily. For instance, why Containment Priest? We have a lot of fine colorless graveyard hate options, Sneak/Show is already pretty favorable, especially if you're packing a significant amount of Endbringer, and Aether Vial is not the reason why D+T and Maverick are hard matchups. Similarly, Ensnaring Bridge and Moat are just as well handled by World Breaker as they are by Krosan Grip (I realize Blood Moon isn't handled as cleanly because of the 7 CMC issue, but let's be honest: Blood Moon is not a common card in the format right now).
The colorless version has completely perfect mana, and you really don't want to mess that up if you can help it. The point of splashing should be to fix some weaknesses of the colorless list, ideally in a way that doesn't introduce new problems (i.e. horrible mana! inability to cast one's own sideboard!). So what are the colorless Eldrazi deck's weaknesses? The three biggest ones that clearly need to be addressed are: problematic utility lands (Maze of Ith, Thespian's Stage, Rishadan Port, opposing Wastelands), Stoneforge Mystic, and Tarmogoyf. Eldrazi Displacer and World Breaker have clear applications in those situations. Aside from those two, no other colored card that has been suggested seems to have anything to do with those problems at all.
If the only cards you really want to splash are Eldrazi Displacer and World Breaker, then playing Brushlands and Corrupted Crossroads is the way to go. It will give you many easy sources of mana to cast all your cards, Eldrazi and non-Eldrazi, alongside Cavern of Souls, Karakas, and Elvish Spirit Guide. The question is then: is this better than Wasteland and Mishra's Factory? Mishra's Factory is just a nice-to-have, I'll grant that. But Wasteland plays an extremely key role, since it's one of the few precious forms of maindeck counterplay you have against Rishadan Port, Maze of Ith, Thespian's Stage, etc. If you cut those to enable Displacer and World Breaker, are you really fixing that problem?
One last thing I want to mention is that Matter Reshaper sucks compared to all the other Eldrazi, but it's still pretty good versus the decks that don't have StP. It usually costs them a card, and the fact that it's yet another way to neutralize Liliana is actually somewhat relevant (since the Liliana decks are among our worst matchups). I think the card is underrated, and I've come around to it despite being a hater for a long time.
@Clark Kant: Intriguing list. I don’t think you need Endbringer at all. Your endgame is to tutor up and cast Ulamog, either via Conduit of Ruin or Eye of Ugin.
I agree with Water Wizard’s assessment of your list lacking disruption. Given your life gain from Glimmerposts, I would run another Dismember. I do not agree with his other points. You don't need four Vesuvas. They’re dreadful in multiples in an opening hand, and unlike 12-Post (which also doesn’t run a full playset of that card), your list can’t tutor for Cloudpost. Also, the comparison of other lands to Cloudpost is inaccurate: If you could play 20 Cloudposts, clearly that would be the best, but Glimmerpost is not Cloudpost. Vesuva is not Cloudpost unless you already have Cloudpost in play. Also, there's no way that cutting Eye of Ugin from the deck would make sense, since it helps you speed up powering out Ulamog and finds the Ulamog.
I like Mimic because it enables your fastest starts, thus allowing you to have two game plans. The first is the standard plan of surviving to the midgame to cast Ulamog; the second is the fast rush that Eldrazi Stompy can achieve on the play with an Eye of Ugin. I like your build because it has the capacity for both.
If I made any changes, it would be to run Cavern of Souls instead of City of Traitors and to run one or two more ways to kill troublesome creatures. I would be inclined to trim back a Revoker.
That's a mischaracterization of the deck. The list I'm running still plans to beat down and win by turn 4-6. And it is more than capable of doing that fairly often. It just also happens to have a back up plan to win in the mid/late game to win via Conduit->Ulamog (which also allows for turn 4-6 wins btw) if the opponent manages to stabilize from the initial Mimic, Seer, Smasher beatdown plan.
You suggested manabase is far too reliant on a cloudpost on the board to be decent. The manabase I'm playing functions just fine without cloudpost. However, going up to 4 Glimmerpost and 4 Vesuva makes the deck overly reliant on cloudpost, which is a mistake. Cloudpost is best used here as just another sol land, not as the core of mana production that the rest of the manabase revolves around.
You're mistaken. Cloudpost doesn't make generic mana, it makes colorless mana, the same as all of the other lands you just listed.
I agree completely with everything you said.
Yes, the deck doesn't need Endbringer, it doesn't add anything to the deck. Cutting an All is Dust or a Revoker for a Dismember probably does make sense.
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