Originally Posted by Pelikanudo
"they CAN have removal" is the most jarring argument here as you act that they run 8+ sweepers postboard while ALSO being able to fight back plan A of ramping into a ToA. Its atrocious that you keep shooting down approaches people championed in ANT to justify your Autumns Veil bullshit.
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Thats why i did not bother to write about builds/boards. Its always the same....
"they CAN have removal" is the most jarring argument here as you act that they run 8+ sweepers postboard while ALSO being able to fight back plan A of ramping into a ToA. Its atrocious that you keep shooting down approaches people championed in ANT to justify your Autumns Veil bullshit.
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I don't think there's anything wrong with Autumn's Veil, I was using it instead of Silence when we were playing Gemstone Mines because I could cast it off of Bayou and it was just as strong then vs Islands as it would be now. As for Empty the Warrens and Xantid Swarm, I think they're both a really hit or miss strategy vs Miracles depending on whether or not they SB out their removal, SB in more removal or SB in Flusterstorms, so while I don't think it's right to dismiss them out of hand I do think it's legitimate to question whether or not they should be your default strategy. Personally, I tend to avoid playing with them on the draw or in game 2 and prefer to "hail marry" them for game 3 instead of having static post-board plans since I think people are more inclined to SB out removal game 3 after not seeing Empty and Swarm than game 2.
The cards are pretty high variance, I love Empty to death but even I'm not really comfortable betting on it in tournament play.
Hi all I'll relate my experience at the BOM
I was able to get a 5-2 Loosing uniquely vs 2 Eldrazi Decks both playing 4 Thorn and 4 Chalice main... that was sad..
the rest of the match ups were 2 BUG - tempo and control, 1 ANT, 1 Painters, 1 miracles, and the last match up - If I won and was relatively easy I had topeighted... the guy was a known nice boy which I usually win. and really was bad luck as I didnt know the deck he was on..., In 1st game - I just was going to combo and he plays an unexpected Venser after I took 2 B.S. with C.T. he played senseis...., the 2nd game I took 1 fluster and he draws the 2nd in the critical moment, he had senseis so I didnt want to pass the turn because I didnt board in any decay or extirpate knowing he was going to play at least 3 flusters - he finally had another in hand.
NOTES:
Agains Miracles just was absurd... the 1st game happens as always - he just don't know what I am on and keeps a bad hand
the 2nd game he starts and keeps a hand with 2 c.b. and 1 c.spell I just G.P. and next B.S. and didnt see therapy and either decays - I had 4 so I need to go for Empty - they won me the games. but he told me that he left 4 terminus and staticaster... bad luck for him...
Well, Eldrazi is now a deck to have in mind - at least in the BOM there were a good number of Eldrazis deck - I faced 2 in my 8 rounds...
and now I need a strategy vs them...
This was the list and how I sided, but I didnt have any stragegy vs them and either didn't expect to face many...:
4 Brainstorm
4 Dark Ritual
1 Ad Nauseam
4 Burning Wish
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Ponder
4 Rite of Flame
3 Duress
1 Empty the Warrens
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
3 Chrome Mox
2 Misty R.
2 Polluted Delta
2 Underground Sea
2 Volcanic Island
4 Gemstones
//Sideboard
SB: 4 Abrupt Decay
SB: 1 Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 Thoughtseize
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Pyroclasm
SB: 1 Past in Flames
SB: 1 Dark Petition
SB: 1 Bayou
SB: 1 duress
SB: 2 Extirpate
SB: 1 Void snare
My approach both on the play and on the draw was:
+4 Decay, +1 Duress, + 1T.Seize +1Bayou
-4 Ponder -3 C.Therapy
1. I just preferred Duress vs C.Therapy to just hit the spells I know which are both Thorn and Chalice - sure in case I start...
2. I'm not sure which card is better about C.T. vs Duress as sure you want to take out Thorn and Chalice, but the critters they play are also a good target well paired with G.P. they also tend to side Trini and Revoker and warping...
3. My experience is that this deck is even worse pairing than MUD as the position they take in the board is just blazing fast, they play the Eldrazi mimic which is just the nuts and they can make you 8 to 10 damage in 2nd turn... depending if they play the Reality smasher or the shitty T Knot Seer... Therefore apart of trying to avoid Throns, Chalice and Trinis... you need to deal with the fact that by turn 5 you are death AND that Ad Nausem will be worse once you reach te 3rd turn. Even Goblins may be not enough if you play them around 3rd or 4th turn...
4. In the 4 match ups I fought, I just won 1 of them by playing EtW in the 1st turn - the others 3 was like starting them and chalice or thorn in 1st turn and the other was just because they killed me in 4th turn starting them and I just wasn't able to win before - I needed to decay a f*** mimic to stay at 1 life...
5. The fact I play TES is better than playing ANT, as we are just faster - I found Rodrigo had a lot of luck not facing Eldrazis until the top 8.... the hell of luck he has...
Well now I want to propose options to handle the match up...
1. what is better vs this C.T. or Duress? for me Duress.
2. I'm thinking in switching the manabase to play 13 lands - 2V.I. 2 USea 8 fetches and 1 badlands to handle pulverize in the side - what do you think?
3. related to the side, I think the best card could be hurkils recall, what do you think? serenity is an option but we would need to use White...
4 having 14 lands vs this is better tan having 13...
a proposed side:
//Sideboard
SB: 3 Abrupt Decay
SB: 1 Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Pyroclasm
SB: 1 Past in Flames
SB: 1 Dark Petition
SB: 1 Bayou
SB: 1 duress
SB: 1 Void snare
SB: 3 Hurkils
SB: 1 pulverize
anyway, looking how irrelevant is beeing A.D. vsmiracles I'm still deciding if to take out this card and definately Green... sure you want them vs lands and like but we have now Hurkils...
Opinions?
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I think as aggro-prison becomes more popular, having more discard as opposed to Chrome Mox and aggressively fetching for Swamp into discard is going to be a bigger deal. Either that or just going balls to the walls with acceleration and Empty the Warrens on the play, as I find that match to be really coin flippy.
I'm leaning towards cutting a Chrome Mox tho', just because it reduces the impact of Chalice of the Void on the draw and improves the Miracles match up.
I think it's a ridiculous suicidal plan to rely on the diceroll and T1 discard/combo to stand a chance against their Turn 1 Chalice/Thorn/SphereOfResistance/etc.
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Your hyperbole is getting really old, its not a MD combination - 3 Duress 2 Chrome Mox - or a SB combination - 3 Empty the Warrens - that hasn't already been tried before in the metagame or against D&T. The Belcher plan aside, nothing is preventing you from SBing in removal or adjusting your strategy on the play/draw as well. Regardless, I think the deck needs to change a bit to take aggro prison into account, and I'm pretty sure Trygon Predator isn't fast enough.
We agree here, that Trygon isn't going to cut it speedwise
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While I do agree that a turn 1 into discard is the way to go vs these decks OR just win, I do not think taking out 3rd C.M. is going to make the match up better.
As opposite to lets say Merfolk, they will tend to play Chalice at 1 agains us as they play 8 A.Tombs and they know is effective against us instead of Chalice at 0,sure unless they have both cards in hand...
I'm also thinking in switching to 1 swamp in base taking out 3rd duress...
I have several thinkings agains this new archetype...
1. I finally discarded the idea of playing 1 pulverize in side - I do not think it is worth as you'll need to play B.W. and a lot of Volcanic Badlands wich will be wastelanded...
2. likely the best card vs them is Ingot chewer as it is a 1 Mana cost against both thorn and chalice. BUT the sad thing about this is that is not good with A.N., on the other side, we could just take out this for 2nd and 3rd games and go into the EtW route OR just play any kind of ANT/TNT build
3. I really dont know how good is A.D vs them as seems just slow,
4. I've been thinking in taking out all of the decays and just play some number of hurkils or I.Chewer... because of the irrelenvance of Decay vs Miracles for me...
5. I really think that duress is better tan C.T. and maybe because can be better vs miracles I've thouth in withicng te number of Duress vs C.T. BUT I just love C.T. and really do notthink I will decrease the number of C.T.
6. the deck is just fast, therefore the EtW or A.N. route seems bad once we reach the 3rd turn... likely from this turn the PiF route is the best think, there can happend that they harm themselves with A.Tomb, and then Natural tendris can be a way...
What I'll do by the moment is just adding 1 hurkils or I.C. to my side... however maybe I switch to a TNT like build, in here I'll be slower but a 2 basic mana base and possibility of playing several inglots....
Well just thoughts..
EDIT: Question: with a Thorn of Amethist and a Chalice at 1 in play, Shattering Spree, in order to destroy both artifacts need to be casted by 1RRR right?
.
Last edited by Pelikanudo; 03-10-2016 at 08:53 AM.
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Yes, I am advanced and you know it...
Suggestion: Play Magic as a Hobby. Competitiveness is uniquely usefull in this Era and just to evolve the human being to a certain extent...
AJ Kerrigan's first article for theepicstorm.com:
http://www.theepicstorm.com/storming-rise-eldrazi/
Great article! I read Caleb's article after this, and I had no idea he tried TES. I searched his lists on SCG and didn't see any TES top 8s but saw that he got 2nd at a Classic with ANT in January. Did he switch back to ANT? If so I would love to hear a follow-up from him. Thanks for the content.
He was testing it toward the end of Dig Through Time, once that got the axe he switched back to ANT. The ability to go under DTT was very crucial, I think we're back to a similar metagame with Eldrazi.
If you're looking for more in-depth based discussion, I would recommend facebook messaging him. He's typically fairly quick to respond.
What's good about the Eldrazi decks taking over the "budget aggro" role from Death&Taxes is that it has shifted the permanent based hate away from creatures and towards artifacts, so the number of discard and the Swamp become more important. Since I've moved back from Thoughtseize to Duress, I find the 3rd Chrome Mox to be redundant and I'm experimenting with cutting Chrome Mox altogether again for 2 Cabal Ritual, 1 Bayou and replacing the MD Empty the Warrens with the 3rd Duress.
I wouldn't get hung up making changes to the mana base and the acceleration, with Chalice becoming a MD consideration I think cutting down on the number of 0cc artificats makes sense. And you're kind of underestimating how often they cast Chalice for 0, it's not like they get Tomb/City openings every game.
August marks ten years of The EPIC Storm, I'm beginning to feel a little reminiscent of the last ten years: http://www.theepicstorm.com/tes-memories/
Hm..
Harness the Storm - 2r
Enchantment
Whenever you cast an instant or sorcery spell from your hand,
you may cast target card with the same name as that spell from
your graveyard. (You still pay its costs.)
Very interesting...... more so for modern than legacy but this is still a very interesting card
For what it's worth, I wish you would keep playing the Grapeshot. In my experience, people can get a little salty when you start to storm off on them... a single dose of Grapeshot tends to cure that right up.
Behold the Beyond 5BB
Sorcery
Discard your hand. Search your library for three cards and put those cards into your hand. Then shuffle your library.
Interesting card. If it was just a little cheaper, I'd think it could be a powerful wish target.
If it were cheaper, I'd probably run it instead of Ad Nauseam.
But as is, CMC7 is probably too steap to run this in the TES wish board.
My TNT (Wish ANT) list makes more mana though. I'll try it in that.
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