Dutch here is the link to the Team America (BUG Delver) thread http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...580#post937580
Ahh there we go! Thank you!Originally Posted by grizzle_grizzle
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Hey everyone. Have not played in a few months, How are we sideboarding against eldrazi?
I am on 3 Strix 4 Fow 2 hymn 1 disfigure 1 pulse 1 deluge
Currently only 2 Lily otv and 1 Jace Vryn.
1 Pulse main and one in the board against eldrazi/mentor/mud
Lands has been big so I am leaning more of a 3-4 Leyline side vs the white splash (not much combo, meddling mage was amazing against lands when I played in in Seattle but I am sure I sided wrong and Dont want to lose like 6 sideboard spots to the white splash
I managed to beat lands at a legacy challenge at GP:DC yesterday. I feel like that should entitle me to an extra 100 prize wall points or so...
From nothing came teeth.
I usually just bring in disfigures and a sylvan library (or life from the loam) taking out 1 Ancestral Vision, 1 Force of Will, and 1 Hymn to Tourach. I am not sure if this is correct, but I am 16-0 in matches against them so I figure I'm doing something right.
So you're MD'ing the Disfigure? If that's the case, I'd go -1 Disfigure, +1 Pulse. It's hard to offer advice without the full 75
Sweet.
Played in a IQ this saturday, Showed up late (been dealing with a ton of family issues/depression so super hyped to play some Legacy so dragged myself there just in time and scribbled down my decklist)
Lost round 1 to Aaron Barich playing infect, I feel like our cards pair well with theres on paper but I get destroyed most of the time I play this matchup against a good pilot. I had pithing needle/deluge/Golgari charm/Disfigure/Pulse to bring in, I took out 2 Ancestrall/1 Agent/2Creeping tarpit. Pretty sure this is wrong lol. How do you all Side against Infect?
Round 2. 2-1 vs Storm
Round 3. 2-0 vs WU stoneblade/delver
Round 4. 2-0 vs Miracles
Round 5. ID with a buddy
top 8 I get deck checked and yup....scribbled down my deck wrong 1 card off I changed a few cards from my list so I messed up. Killer get a game loss in top 8 now lol.
Top 8 play against ur STORMCHASER mage/delver/swiftspear with price of progress. I lost a boring game where I live way too long and cant find any pressure and he finally plays a 2nd stormchaser and does ponder/bolt/ price.
O well, I feel like I would of stomped him in 3 games
4 DRS
4 Goyf
4 Shardless
3 Strix
1 Jace, Vryn Prodigy
4 Brainstorm
3 Ancestral visions
4 Force of will
4 Abrupt Decay
1 Maelstrom pulse
2 Hymn
1 Disfigure
1 Toxic deluge
2 Lily of the Veil
1 Swamp
1 Forest
3 Underground sea
2 Bayou
1 Tropical
2 Creeping tarpit
3 Wasteland
4 Polluted delta
4 Verdant catacombs
1 Misty Rainforest
Last edited by SilkyPimP; 03-14-2016 at 04:14 PM.
Not sure what you mean by 2 Shardless/1 Agent, but I would try cutting a couple of Tarmogoyf. We don't really need more than 1 beefy ground dude. Shardless Agents are great post board because we have more live cards to cascade in to. I trim an Ancestral too. Baleful strix is MVP, sometimes they will just have trample and kill you, but being able to hold off an inkmoth nexus is great. I cut 1 Hymn too, because you want to answer the board, but it can be good in the right circumstances.
Oops. Meant I cut 2 tarpit/2 visions/1 Agent.
Greetings. I played Shardless at the GP DC legacy challenges. The deck performed great. I entered two challenges and finished 3-0-1 in both.
Main:
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Shardless Agent
2 Baleful Strix
4 Brainstorm
3 Ancestral Visions
1 Sylvan Library
4 Force of Will
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Hymn to Tourach
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
2 Tropical Island
1 Forest
1 Swamp
4 Polluted Delta
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Misty Rainforest
3 Wasteland
Board:
3 Meddling Mage
1 Scrubland
2 Disfigure
2 Golgari Charm
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Hymn to Tourach
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Null Rod
1 Pithing Needle
Matchups:
Challenge #1:
Beat Miracles 2-0 (Board strategy: -1 Baleful Strix, -3 Wasteland [did not see Karakas]; +2 Golgari Charm, +1 Null Rod, +1 Pithing Needle)
Beat Merfolk 2-1 (-4 Force of Will; +2 Disfigure, +1 Toxic Deluge, +1 Null Rod)
Beat Dark Maverick 2-1 (Did not see any discard after a long and grindy game 1 and opponent ran at least two copies of Mirran Crusader so I opted to keep in some Force of Will; -1 Force of Will, -3 Hymn to Tourach; +2 Disfigure, +1 Toxic Deluge, +1 Null Rod)
ID
Challenge #2:
Beat Miracles 2-0 (Same as above)
Beat Burn 2-1 (-1 Maelstrom Pulse, -1 Toxic Deluge, -2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor; +2 Disfigure, +1 Golgari Charm, +1 Hymn to Tourach);
Beat Elves 2-1 (-2 Baleful Strix, -3 Hymn to Tourach, -1 Forest, -1 Swamp; +2 Disfigure, +2 Golgari Charm; +1 Toxic Deluge, +1 Grafdigger's Cage, +1 Pithing Needle)
ID
There isn't really anything to fancy about this list other than a few small tweaks.
I opted to run 21 lands instead of the customary 22. I found more often than not I would flood out on mana. Throughout the challenges I never had any sort of mana problems, so that is encouraging despite the small sample size. Cutting the land allowed me to add a second Jace main.
I cut the fourth Ancestral Visions for a Sylvan Library. Ancestral is a pretty bad late game topdeck. Sylvan at least provides value the turn after it resolves. Of course it is a great cascade target and also helps set up some nice cascades.
I played no copies of Thoughtseize/Duress in the 75 in order to support four Hymn to Tourach. In the matchups where one mana discard spells are relevant (i.e., combo), those decks run enough card selection to recoup the lost card. Since our clock is not the best, the one mana discard spells are rarely high enough impact and function more like treading water in my experience.
I look forward to any feedback. Cheers.
Infect is 50/50 I would say. We have great answers but they have to allign to their draw too. Their abillity to counter decay with Vines and Inkmoth is crucial.Lost round 1 to Aaron Barich playing infect, I feel like our cards pair well with theres on paper but I get destroyed most of the time I play this matchup against a good pilot. I had pithing needle/deluge/Golgari charm/Disfigure/Pulse to bring in, I took out 2 Ancestrall/1 Agent/2Creeping tarpit. Pretty sure this is wrong lol. How do you all Side against Infect?
Top 8 play against ur STORMCHASER mage/delver/swiftspear with price of progress. I lost a boring game where I live way too long and cant find any pressure and he finally plays a 2nd stormchaser and does ponder/bolt/ price.
O well, I feel like I would of stomped him in 3 games
I would like to give you SB advice but you didnt list your SB ;)
Winners are: Disfigure, NOSB, Deluge, Needle, Thoughtseize, FOW, Sylvan
Dont like: Jace, lilli (fetch for Dryad), Pulse (slow), Hymn, 4th goyf
Cutting a land and playing 21 Lands with 3 Wastelands and putting in Jace really seems greedy to me. You dodged Delver in both challenges but I wouldn"t feel comfortable against Grixis Delver with Deck.
Against Miracles the golgari charm is against mentor tokens and cb? I like Deluge+maybe Hymn better here, because one spell counters charm and cb also can counter it (they may even board it out).
You Cut 2 Lands against Elves? So you are going down to 16 Lands+3 Wastelands? Seems really risky to me, especially since you have to expect your DRS to be unusable.
For your Point of going to 3+1 Hymns no Seize: It is right what you say about them replacing the piece. Hitting with hymn is so big, but first of all it takes time, which is really crucial against ANT (I feel like surviving the first 3 Turns is half way to winning.) And if You are on the draw and you have your interaction on T2 rather than T1 it can easily be game. And since we are already very likely to loose G1 I want to have the lower mana curve on disruption.
Twenty one lands may very well be greedy. However, there really is not much Delver in my meta. If I brought this to a large tournament I would probably cut one Hymn for a Creeping Tar Pit. I figured the challenges would be a good place to test it.
I like Golgari Charm a lot in the Miracles matchup. Both Miracles opponents seemed like beginners so I expected them to keep in some number of Counterbalance postboard. It also is a nice answer to RIP, Blood Moon, Mentor monk spam, Clique, Snapcaster, etc. I did keep in a singleton copy of Deluge postboard. I also like Hymn a lot in the matchup, but four seemed excessive. I was content with three.
The Elves player is a good friend of mine. I know his exact 75. He was not running Choke. For that reason I decided to be greedy and take out the basics.
You raise a valid point about Thoughtseize and the ANT matchup. However, I am not really sure what to cut in order to make room for them.
Hey there everyone! If you ever wanted to learn about the history of Shardless Sultai and how it was developed, we have quite the treat for you. Gerry Thompson features on MTG Training Grounds' latest episode to tell the tale of Legacy's grindiest powerhouse.
YouTube: https://youtu.be/5X4uCPLvPb8
Podcast: https://archive.org/details/LegacysA...hGerryThompson
This is obviously geared towards newer players of the deck, but there is always valuable info when getting direct from the source
Maelstrom Pulse is really necessary in BUG "Shardless" Control？
I think it is bad in lots of match up and i don't want to see it when begin.
It was a good conversation, though I think it could've benefitted from more depth on some points, particularly where you were contrasting conventional and unconventional decks. I felt like the issue of the deck's simplicity was left somewhat unresolved at the end (unless "it plays a lot like a Standard/Modern midrange deck" was the point of that segment). Also, I would've liked to hear Gerry's thoughts on how well the deck is positioned now, especially in light of his recent statements about trying to win more and play the best deck.Hey there everyone! If you ever wanted to learn about the history of Shardless Sultai and how it was developed, we have quite the treat for you. Gerry Thompson features on MTG Training Grounds' latest episode to tell the tale of Legacy's grindiest powerhouse.
YouTube: https://youtu.be/5X4uCPLvPb8
Podcast: https://archive.org/details/LegacysA...hGerryThompson
This is obviously geared towards newer players of the deck, but there is always valuable info when getting direct from the source
It would take a huge meta shift to make me go below one copy in the 75. There are times when I want a second. You can cut it, but if your meta has lots of Grixis or BUG Delver, the mirror, Miracles, Loam, or Eldrazi, I woud advise against cutting it.Maelstrom Pulse is really necessary in BUG "Shardless" Control？
I think it is bad in lots of match up and i don't want to see it when begin.
I won the Tales of Adventure 5K Satellite for Eternal Extravaganza today, going 5-0-1 (ID) in the strangest Swiss of my life, where I played Eldrazi three times (2-0, 2-0, 2-1) and Lands twice (2-1, 2-0) before drawing into Top 8. In Top 8 I played against Grixis Delver (2-1), UR Delver (with Set Adrift, 2-1), and TES (2-1). I'll post a list sometime tomorrow.
Congrats on the win. You faced tough MU and managed to win them. It would be nice if a part from your list you post a quick summary of the lands games.
Thanks!
The list was:
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Shardless Agent
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Baleful Strix
1 Tombstalker
4 Force of Will
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Hymn to Tourach
1 Thoughtseize
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Brainstorm
3 Ancestral Vision
4 Polluted Delta
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
3 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
2 Bayou
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Creeping Tar Pit
Sideboard
2 Disfigure
2 Duress
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Toxic Deluge
1 Golgari Charm
1 Thoughtseize
1 Null Rod
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Dismember
1 Planar Void
1 Sylvan Library
My first Lands opponent was on the traditional RG list, while the second was on a Jund list similar to the one David Long used to top 8 SCG Philly. I wasn't sure what the RG player was on, but we were next to the Jund player, so the next round I had relevant information for mulliganing game 1. I incidentally kept a hand with DRS and Force against RG in game 1, and aggressively used Force to stop Gamble when he cast it, then Brainstormed into a Decay for his Exploration. He can't find a Punishing Fire to kill my Deathrite before I find a second one, and I draw all 4 Wastelands in a long, grindy game 1. Goyf and Agent close it out. I lose a close game 2 where I try to play around Punishing Fire + Marit Lage hit (he has the combo on board but can't go off through my Wasteland) by going to 23 life with a Deathrite activation, but this line leaves me a damage short of lethal when he finds Port and a Punishing Fire off of his next Loam and my Agent can't get through Marit Lage. I get a fast start with Deathrite and Force for his Gamble in game 3, but I break up the combo with Wasteland and force him to make the token in combat while I have Liliana and Planar Void in hand with DRS on board, stopping him from using Loam to re-assemble the combo. He kills the DRS with a topdecked Punishing Fire, then turtles up behind Maze of Ith and Stage copying Maze to hold off my Tombstalker and Goyf, but I continue to get through with a Shardless Agent. I ultimate Liliana at 7, split his colored sources against his Mazes, and he scoops. I basically got a free win against the Jund player in game 1 when he punts by comboing into my untapped Wasteland. He realizes his error when I waste the Stage with its Depths trigger on the stack, leaving him with a Wasteland and a Mox Diamond. He Decays a Deathrite at one point, but never really recovers. In Game 2 I mulligan to Force, 3 lands, Agent, Clique, scry Decay to the top, and he starts with Gamble that I Force pitching Clique. I play fetch, pass, and he plays Exploration into Grove and a Wasteland. I fetch basics, Decay Exploration, and pass again. I find Deathrite at about the same time he finds Loam, and he meticulously plays around me eating Loam by holding up Tranquil Thicket mana after Loaming it back to his hand, so I fight it by eating his lands to advance my board instead. Tombstalker shows up and starts taking big chunks of his life total and is joined by a Goyf soon afterward. Cutting Punishing Fire for Molten Vortex bites him here as it not only puts in Enchantment in the bin for Goyf, but also means that he can't use Loam to find his removal. He finds a Maze and then Crop Rotates for Glacial Chasm when he's at 9. He combos on my endstep at 3 life before sacrificing Glacial Chasm in his upkeep. He swings, I chump with Tombstalker, and he scoops to lethal on board.
I boarded as:
-2 Hymn
-2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
-1 Thoughtseize (this is arguably incorrect on the play since turn 1 Thoughtseize lets you take something like Vortex, Decay, or Gamble)
+2 Nihil Spellbomb
+1 Planar Void
+1 Vendillion Clique
+1 Sylvan Library
in both Lands matchups.
EDIT: My notes as a whole aren't great, and the wins against TES and Lands obviously involved a measure of luck (I blind hit a Hymn that I absolutely needed off of a Shardless Agent in game 1 against TES and drew running hardcastable Forces to beat his running bombs in game 3). If any of my opponents read this and I got something wrong, feel free to correct the record.
Last edited by btm10; 03-21-2016 at 12:47 AM.
Nice job! Planar Void is sick tech. I am going to give that card a try. I love how much Eldrazi is everywhere right now, makes a Shardless player's life pretty easy.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
Reply With Quote