I play 0-1 Crop Rotation. I know how the card can win games out of the blue, but it can also be completely useless in some cases, like when you're short on mana to activate Inkmoth, or against Chalice (which is everywhere these days) or against Miracles with Counterbalance in play. Since my primary plan against Miracles is to let Counterbalance resolve and win through it, I always try to reduce the number of dead 1-drops in my deck. Plus I don't play Wasteland main. It is great as a Become Immense enabler, I agree with that.
That was probably mine. Great surprise against decks that tend to delay their removal, as you say.saw a list with 2 stonewood invocation in the sb, cant remember where...
It is almost impossible to cast on an activated Inkmoth (6 mana), so I would advise against it if you have a non zero number of Dazes after sideboarding.
Were you in the first page of results from the SCG classic this last weekend? That list had the two stonewoods and a JVP in the main. Sweet infect listOriginally Posted by Cartesian
I was so excited to see JVP putting up results as a one of in this list.
No that wasn't me. I was playing 2 Stonewood Invocation in the first Legacy Premier on MTGO. But that's sweet, I wonder if that guy won any games with it. I didn't use it much tbh, and I doubt that it would be correct to play more than 1 in the sideboard.
Hello! I would like to talk about some choices of standard list that I don't understand:
why don't we play 4 x gitaxian probe? Is strong to choose the initial strategy and can help us to the turn where we want to play all in! All this manaless!
-why only 1 become immense? The second would be interesting and certainly not impossible to play!
-why 1 wasteland maindeck? Why not play the second pendelhaven? Wasteland can be stay in sideboard
-What is the right number of vines? What can be depends the Number?
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Great questions!
because they are generally pretty bad in this deck, while they are free and do replace themselves you rarely want to cast more than one and they are always the first cut post board once you know what you are playing around. What do you propose cutting for more? Ponder is honestly a better card letting you pick the answer/shuffle away while still replacing itself.
fueling the delve is more difficult than it seems, there are some advocates of running two in this forum. I'm not all that impressed by it and feel like it is a necessary evil in this deck because there are no better options. When it works it is amazing, when it doesn't it is the feel bads. if you can fuel two become immense and haven't won yet something went horribly awry-why only 1 become immense? The second would be interesting and certainly not impossible to play!
unlike the modern version of this deck we have ways to find utility lands (crop rotation). Main deck maze of ith and grove of the burnwillows can be a problem so you need to have an answer hence the wasteland. Wasteland is by no means required to make this deck good. You can easily cut it and run a maindeck savannah for the white side board plan, or add another rotation to find the specific land you need. In my MTGO version I run 0 wasteland cause the price is silly and it works well.-why 1 wasteland maindeck? Why not play the second pendelhaven? Wasteland can be stay in sideboard
Vines can be anywhere from 2-4 depending on your comfort level with the deck and meta. As discussed on the page before casting vines kicked is rarely a preferred play but some times is necessary.-What is the right number of vines? What can be depends the Number?
What does your meta consist of?
What build are you thinking about trying?
Do you currently play the modern version and are thinking about switching to legacy?
Hi shocked439 and thanks for the answers!
Now, my metagame (Italian) it is infesting of Eldrazi, much like in the rest of the world, also there are U\/R delver, Ant and Bug decks.
This is my current list that use on MTGO, with I made 5-2 last Sunday in a tournament by 65 people:
4 elf
4 noble
4 agent
1 Jace
3 Fow
3 Daze
1 crop
3 vines
1 become
4 invi
2 berserk
4 bs
4 probe
2 pierce
1 phiracy charm
4 trop
8 fetch
1 pendel
1 wasteland
4 nexus
1 forest
SIDE:
1 viridian
1 seal
1 krosan
2 stp
1 wasteland
1 flusterstorm
2 rip
1 Fow
1 necropede
1 savannah
1 needle
1 blue elemental
1 surgical
I started a few months ago to play the deck and I also tried the modern version.
I wanted to try to make some changes to the list as deduced from previous questions, also I would also try IMPULSE!
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5 and 2 is really good, what did you lose to? Were there any cards you felt under or over performed?
I love the Jace in your creature package, how was he for you?1 Jace
In your spells package I see lots of choices, I'm intrigued by the 2 pierces main. I totally understand wanting the 4 git probes in the deck, information is great. As I was tuning infect for the legacy GP last year probes 3 and 4 were the cards I looked to get rid of in favor of additional flex spots. however in my first build on MTGO in preparation for the same tournament it started as a 4 of dot deck. Slowly it evolved into a deck with more one and two ofs that were good in situational plays and would often be shuffled away with a brainstorm.1 crop
3 vines
4 probe
2 pierce
1 piracy charm
If it is working for you then keep it. I really like your configuration I would want one more rotation and a couple ponders but there is not much room for it.
Your land package is pretty standard minus the dryad arbor. It makes for a terrible opening hand, but can be good against an opposing lilly, or to combine with exalted triggers for a normal damage win. Just a consideration to add in here.4 trop
8 fetch
1 pendel
1 wasteland
4 nexus
1 forest
I waffle back and forth on the white sideboard. It has been a debate on here for awhile too. Again I have no recommendations here other than play what you're comfortable with and what is working for you.SIDE:
1 viridian
1 seal
1 krosan
2 stp
1 wasteland
1 flusterstorm
2 rip
1 Fow
1 necropede
1 savannah
1 needle
1 blue elemental
1 surgical
Impulse is another fun card to try, give it a whirl and let us know what you think. There are so many choices for cards 57-60 in the main deck that it can be daunting to test them all out. Buona fortuna!I started a few months ago to play the deck and I also tried the modern version.
I wanted to try to make some changes to the list as deduced from previous questions, also I would also try IMPULSE!
I have lost by Merfolk 2-1, where the opponent in game1 did chalice of the void second round, and game3 He played 2 wasteland in the early rounds it I was not allowed to close the gap on the board; and i have lost by U/R Delver 2-1, too many price of progress!!
I like Jace because he did different things than Sylvan Library, like flashback pump spells and gives -2/0 at chumpblockers, like deathrite!
Lately I've had problems with spell pierce; as another user said in this thread (maybe Cartesian) flusterstorm could be counter cc1 need to protect our pump spells, because in the mid-late game pierce a bad backup card!
I have some doubts about piracy charm; and I believe I could get to 3 gitaxian probe by inserting so 1 ponder.
I have tested for some time Dryad Arbor with GSZ, but with today's metagame I preferred to go down from 20 to 19 lands also removing the Zenith, considering it no longer necessary!
I'm going to try 1 or 2 impulse, maybe instead of piracy charm and also try to play 2 flusterstorm the main instead of 2 spell pierce!
Grazie, ti auguro di vincere tanti tornei con Infect!!
Flusterstorm is most excellent but Spell Pierce has it's merits as well. The most crucial difference for me is Pierce countering Counterbalance, Chalice and to some extent planeswalkers as well. Flusterstorm destroys any stack but lock pieces are a real weakness for it.
Two pierce and one Flusterstorm has been working for me but eventually it's all meta dependant.
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Good point! My meta hates delvers and braintorms, thus lots are playing chalices. Ive maindecked the 4th FOW, my 2 pierces however was split to 1 pierce/1 flusterstorm (when it arrived in the mail, before i dont own 1) a late game pierce is nothing compared to a fluster, but both really have its advantage and disadvantage. It really is a a meta call.
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Hey Guys,
I'm one of the owners of SouthFloridaMagic.com and as such, I spend more time commentating and organizing events than actually playing in them. I've fallen in love with Legacy Infect over the last 6 months though, and the events I've played it in I've experienced a fair amount of success. I went 6-3 @SCG Philadelphia losing my last round to miss day two, and recently won a local GPT for GP Columbus. I would like to get some constructive criticism on my list and sideboard options so I can continue testing the 75 prior to the June GP.
Lands (19)
1x Wasteland
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Tropical Island
1x Pendelhaven
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Inkmoth Nexus
1x Forest
Creatures (14)
1x Viridian Corrupter
1x Jace, Vryn's Prodigy
4x Blighted Agent
4x Noble Hierarch
4x Glistener Elf
Spells (27)
1x Become Immense
3x Force of Will
4x Invigorate
3x Daze
2x Gitaxian Probe
3x Vines of Vastwood
1x Crop Rotation
2x Berserk
2x Spell Pierce
1x Ponder
4x Brainstorm
1x Green Sun's Zenith
Sideboard (15)
1x Force of Will
1x Viridian Corrupter
1x Krosan Grip
1x Sylvan Library
1x Seal of Primordium
3x Rest in Peace
1x Necropede
1x Spellskite
1x Flusterstorm
3x Swords to Plowshares
1x Savannah
Explanations for some of the less common choices:
1. Jace has been amazing. I like him over the main deck Sylvan Library because they fill similar roles, but Jace pitches to FOW and offers even more flexibility to the deck.
2. GSZ+ Viridian Corrupter. I've gone back and forth between having the Corrupter main or not, but with the rise of Eldrazi I've found it to be greatly effective. Deals nicely with Chalice, Baleful Strix, and Jitte, three of the best cards against the deck. I've tested Dryad Arbor and never felt comfortable with it in the deck.
3. Sideboard Spellskite, not sure why I don't see this in more boards. I bring it in against decks with p.fire and also 4c Delver.
4. 3 RIP. When you want graveyard hate, you really want it. I've thought about making one an Absolute Law though to play around the rise of Molten Vortex in lands. Not sure about the change yet.
I look forward to hearing your thoughts on the list, and any changes you would suggest going into a large field event like the Legacy GP. Thanks!
-Mike
A couple of things about this post:
In fairness I have yet to playtest new Jace in this deck. That said, is letting your creatures match deathrite in combat really one of his selling points? Your 1/1 Elf crashing into his now 0/2 shaman gives him two turns of blocks in addition to however many activations he can squeeze in before your Jace flips (at least 3.) To say he does different things than Library isn't technically wrong, but what exactly is he doing that makes him so valuable? A 0/2 looter that dies to every form of creature removal isn't exactly enough justification to be legacy playable. Once he flips, you get one sorcery speed flashback then another one two turns later when you decide he's expendable. I'm not sure what matchups he's best in, as these all seem like pretty minor upsides, but he definitely doesn't seem like a replacement for Library, which is a source of card selection and card advantage against grindier decks, such as Lands, Miracles, and Shardless. You don't have to play Library in your main deck, but a looter will not be remotely close to a substitute if you should run into those matchups.
You were the one who was having trouble with Eldrazi in your meta, yes? If that's correct, don't cut the Spell Pierce for Flusterstorm. If anything, go for the 2/1 split of Pierce and Flusterstorm, as the Pierces are going to be very important against many, many things that Flusterstorm can't hit.
Piracy Charm is a versatile but weak card. Tom Ross plays it as a pet card, just understand that you're doing the same if you choose to play it.
Impulse seems... bad? Maybe I'm hung up on the 2 mana, but it just seems like Ponder is going to be so much better for fixing hands that are otherwise unkeepable. I guess 2 mana instant speed is overall better against Chalice decks, but any sort of Delver or mana denial strategy is going to give you a really hard time if you're trying to cast impulse. The ability to plan out turns in advance should also be noted, as this is a deck that often has to think several turns ahead.
Currently at work, but I'm noticing a lot of people are advocating for Jace, Vryn's Prodigy in the main deck. Anyone who has experience with this card, can you elaborate on why you feel he does/doesn't deserve a spot in the main deck?
The card filtering is obviously fine, but the best parts come when it is flipped. Being able to "flash back" invigorate for its alternative casting cost, or a kicked vines has been great. I was able to win a game against a lands player with Maze of Ith by playing kicked Vines on an elf, getting in for five, then flashing it back for the same next turn. The -2-0 has been quite good against flipped delver to both slow down their clock and stop a delver from trading with an inkmoth+exalted.
It is true, sometimes my opponent lightning bolts Jace. Which is great, one less bolt to deal with.
Infect is well equippped to win against a resolved Chalice/Thorn or Counterbalance/Top, it has much better chances than the average Delver deck. Only 4 of our threats cost 1, and we have Invigorate, and Become Immense (and Flusterstom). I have many times let a Chalice or Counterbalance resolve with FoW in hand, simply because I was confident that I could win through them.
Against Eldrazi, consider this:
- Spell Pierce is a dead topdeck with Chalice in play, Flusterstorm is not.
- Eldrazi plays 5-6 maindeck removal spells that Flusterstorm does a much better job at stopping than Spell Pierce.
All fair points, I definitely agree that we're better suited to fight through Chalice and Counterbalance than any other Delver deck. That said, however, there's a couple of things I disagree with you on
- The cards that aren't affected by Chalice on one make up on average half of the deck, depending on flex slots and the particular build of Infect. This is much better than a deck like RUG Delver, but a turn one chalice is still going to give us trouble as it turns off all of our cantrips, a good number of pump spells, and our mana accelerant/pseudo Pendelhaven creature. I'm by no means saying that we can't with through Chalice on one, only that the card can give us some serious trouble if it comes down early against the right hands.
- We might be facing against different builds of Eldrazi if you're seeing that much maindeck hate. The lists on the source are similar to what I've seen at my shop, which is 1-2 copies of Dismember and 1-2 copies of Warping Wail, with the decks light on spot removal opting for more copies of Endbringer / Jitte. Of note is that Spell Pierce also hits Jitte, a situation I've run into in some of the last couple of weeklies I've played.
- There's also the concern of Eldrazi's main deck taxing artifacts (sphere, thorn, trinisphere out of the board.) Same as Chalice, these are cards that we can win through but do slow us down if played early against the right hands.
Overall, I'd say Spell Pierce gives us a couple of more options here while Flusterstorm is better against a more narrow aspect of the Eldrazi deck. From a metagaming perspective, I'd still go with the increased Spell Pierce count if I'm expecting a lot of Eldrazi, but will agree that an increased Flusterstorm count is one of the stronger and more underrated ways to fight against Miracles.
Hey Mike, great to have you here. Jumping right into the deck:
1. I've been pretty vocal about my thoughts on New Jace, he seems just a bit too slow to fit a deck like ours. The interaction between the planeswalker -2 and Invigorate however is sweet enough for me to try testing one in the near future. I guess maybe default to others experiences in the mean time.
2. Big fan of main decking this, but it does raise the question of whether you need another Corrupter in the board. I've taken after Svyelunite's idea of playing a Sylvan Safekeeper in the board as an inexpensive green utility creature.
On the topic of artifact hate, I'm not much of a fan of Seal of Primordium as it costs more than Claim and telegraphs your play if not played at sorcery speed. Consider swapping it out for a Nature's Claim or Krosan Grip, the former being better against non blue non chalice decks.
3. Spellskite used to be a lot worse when there were Goyfs running around everywhere. These days, it's just not all that necessary. Spellskite plays poorly into Krosan Grip and Ancient Grudge both, and it's really the sweepers that you need to watch out for anyway.
Safekeeper will fill a similar role of you feel you need it, and it's fetchable with GSZ.
4. I've found 3 RiP's to be excessive, as they're often just a step too slow to matter against the decks you want them against. 2 has been a good number for me, though I suppose 3 is defensible given the meta conditions.
Absolute Law is an interesting one. I'd wait until Columbus is closer before deciding whether you want one over RiP, as the typical build of Lands (Jund vs. Christmas) will determine which you prefer. Of note is that Needle is incredibly flexible, and will go a long way to putting lands off of their game plan (Vortex, Port, Stage, I wouldn't recommend Wasteland as it's our only out to Glacial Chasm.)
Overall the maindeck looks fine. Consider making changes to the sideboard, something like
-1 Corrupter
-1 Deal of Primordium
-1 Rest in Peace
-1 Necropede (Idk, maybe? Haven't played with him much, but was not impressed when I did)
+1 Sylvan Safekeeper
+1 Nature's Claim
+1 Absolute Law (meta call)
+1 Pithing Needle (some people swear it's strong enough for a two of, I'm personally on a 1/1 split with Null Rod)
Yes, I gave an explanation a bit superficial about Jace because I have not used many times but I do not think I said that is the final card for the main! He does different things Sylvan library and worth trying in the deck!
As for spell pierce dont think its the right solution for chalice, for the simple fact that when it is played by our opponent often we are tapped out, or we still have our turn 1!
it is rare to be open mana to use spell pierce on chalice, we might as well play the fourth force of will!
Pulse is interesting because it is the fifth instant manipulation, which allows us to search deeper than a brainstorm! 2 mana end of turn can be castable, certainly I find this most interesting card than Zenith, far too situational!
I have been playing at a weekly event with a lot of control. These are small, 15 man tourneys with 2 elves/maverick, 1 Jund, 1 RUG delver, some Miracles, more Mentor control lists, and some fringe Blood Moon, MUD, and Reanimator decks.
I am struggling with RUG the most and got blown out of the water by Oops! All Spells....! That was quite amusing for me, but oh well!
I wanted to find opinions on BI #2. Right now, it is in place of Berserk #2 for financial concerns.
That was the only viable replacement that I could think of. What are thoughts on the viability of this? My list is stock with corrupter in the side and mained GSZ and Savannah.
Thanks,
Second Become Immense is not bad if you have a reliable way to cast one, meaning being heavy on Probes and Crop Rotations. If you draw two early, you might tilt a bit. I would test both Become Immense and Double Cleave heavily to assess which one is better shoestring-Berserk.
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