So anyone playing this deck right now or switched to other storm variants?
"Everything is better topless"
Yes. People still play this deck.Originally Posted by l33twash0r
Someone made Top 8 in Memphis with the deck.
Looking to pick up some doomsday on mtgo again and give this another whirl. Has anybody had any luck using Dark Petition in any way, shape or form? I'm thinking about including one in the main deck. Haven't played this deck since the days of Treasure Cruise so not really sure what to expect.
If you play Burning Wish, here's no real reason to add Dark Petition.
I think playing 4x Wish and 3x Doomsday should be plenty of business.
For non-Wish builds:
The fact that you can't easily cast it from LEDs also makes it weaker.
I'd probably advise Peronal Tutor or Lim-Dul's Vault before Dark Petition.
Pretty much this. Burning Wish is more mana efficient, doesn;t force you combo combo in the same turn, and has way more utility. If you feel x3 Wish x3D lacks business add the 4th Wish. I doubt you'd want DP on top of those...or Personal Tutor / LDV for that matter.
Some people tried cutting all Wishes for DP. It wasn't very elegant. You had to cut lands or cantrips, both of which this deck wants more of typically, and add more rituals to make DP viable which lowered card quality. You had to value cantrips so much it stifled card filtering.
Lately most people are working on different sideboards. A few MD ideas kicking around but nothing radical.
Thanks for the replies. Back when last I played the deck I ran just 1 petal and then 3 wish, 2 treasure cruise.
I like going up to 2 petals in lieu of one of the cruises, not sure what the other slot should be. Guess it could be wish #4 but I find that too many wishes a clunky hand makes. That was where I was considering the DP, but I think what you guys are saying makes sense regarding how it needs more rituals to really be viable. Don't really like LDV nor Personal Tutor so actually maybe the 4th wish just really is my best bet...
Don't suppose something like Painful Truths falls in your taste in the old Treasure Cruise slot? With just a grixis base and dark rituals I'd be worried about not being able to always draw 3. Further more the life loss seems way too relevant.
I saw someone playing 3 petals so yeah... maybe.
Jup. Wish trumps almost all other options easily.
It also allows you to play the kill on side, making the list smoother.
The only question is: are you willing to play a colour just for Wish?
I decided it's worth it, but some prefer to not splash red just for Wish.
So I have all of the pieces to put Doomsday together. I've been playing ANT and I assume it is very similar. What is the "optimal" build right now. I found this online and I'm wondering everyone's thoughts on it.
Prentice Britton
7th Place at StarCityGames.com Super IQ on 1/31/2016
Main Deck:
1 Laboratory Maniac
4 Gitaxian Probe
3 Scalding Tarn
4 Ponder
1 Ideas Unbound
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Polluted Delta
2 Bloodstained Mire
3 Burning Wish
3 Cabal Therapy
2 Island
2 Swamp
4 Duress
4 Brainstorm
4 Dark Ritual
1 Rain of Filth
3 Lotus Petal
3 Doomsday
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
1 Badlands
1 Volcanic Island
2 Underground Sea
Sideboard:
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
1 Shelldock Isle
1 Empty the Warrens
2 Xantid Swarm
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Cabal Therapy
1 Massacre
1 Meltdown
1 Time Spiral
1 Doomsday
1 Tropical Island
Also, where is the a great place to find primers, general play tips and Doomsday pile lists? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.
https://login.proboards.com/register/2500671
there is a ton of info there.
-rob
This list seems pretty close to where you want to be. I would probably swap out a Lotus Petal to add a Chromatic Sphere for Lab Man piles, but that's the biggest change.
Does anyone have a link to the old cheezeburger list of piles or any other documents like that? I have basically a packet printed out at home of all sorts of obscure piles that I used when learning the deck.
Team Serious
1000% Serious
Seriously
Found it: https://docs.google.com/document/edi...QmAMgTkY&hl=en
All of this stuff is on the storm boards like mistercakes suggested.
Team Serious
1000% Serious
Seriously
There is no real optimal list for doomsday because it has so many options it will always be meta game dependant. There are a core few cards most people would say are uncuttable.
3 Doomsday
3 Burning Wish
1 Ideas Unbound
4 Brainstorm
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ponder
4 Sensei'S Divining Top
4 Dark Ritual
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
6 Discard/Chants
7 Flex (More Protection Spells, 4th Burning Wish, Lotus Petals, Laboratory Maniac, Rain of Filth, More Lands)
16 Land
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand/Scalding Tarn
2 Underground Sea
1 Island
1 Swamp
2 Fetchable Red Sources
2 Flex Spot(Tundra+Scrubland,More basics/Fetches/Duals)
SB
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Doomsday
1 Massacre
12 Flex
Trop+ Decays
CoV
Meltdown
Laboratory Maniac
Karakas
Infernal Contract
Empty the Warrens
2nd Tendrils
So much more
Last edited by Mhenlo; 04-22-2016 at 06:53 PM. Reason: Autocorrected CoV to Cover
MTGO Leagues Report
I am trying a new build of Doomsday that goes all in on a transformative sideboard (see below) and decided to cut red, opting instead to use Lim-Dul's Vault over Burning Wish. I am still trying out various numbers of Mox Opal. I took the deck through a League with a 4-1 result, where my 1 loss may have been due to a misplay.
Round 1 - Miracles
Game 1 - I lose the die roll and draw my opening 7:
Doomsday
Ponder
Ponder
Preordain
Gitaxian Probe
Underground Sea
Flooded Strand
This hand is great! A single Dark Ritual away from a turn 2 win with 2 extra cantrips. My opponent mulligans to 6 and leads with Island and Top. I draw Tendrils of Agony for my turn, which means that I cannot use the standard 2 cantrip pile. I fetch an Island and preordain, drawing a Brainstorm leaving a Top on top. I Brainstorm into an LED, a Dark Ritual, and a second copy of Doomsday and decide to not go for the win this turn, but look for discard, especially since I have Tendrils of Agony on top of my deck. My opponent untaps and plays Counterbalance. We draw-go for few turns and I sculpt my hand. My opponent plays a Mentor and on turn 8 I have two Tops in play and my hand is Tendrils of Agony, Dark Ritual, LED, Probe, Probe, Doomsday, and Ponder. I lead with a Probe and my opponent responds by looking with Top, then tapping it. In response I play a Dark Ritual, Top into a Brainstorm, Brainstorm into a Dark Ritual. I play out all my spells where most are countered and I end with a Tendrils for 22.
Win - Turn 8 Natural Tendrils (with turn 2 combo available without protection)
TRANSFORM
-4 Doomsday
-2 Lim-Dul's Vault
-1 Ideas Unbound
-4 Lion's Eye Diamond
-3 Dark Ritual
-1 Tendrils of Agony
+4 Monastery Mentor
+4 Dark Confidant
+2 Cavern of Souls
+2 Meddling Mage
+3 Abrupt Decay
Game 2 - I mulligan a no-land hand into:
Meddling Mage
Abrupt Decay
Brainstorm
Cabal Therapy
Duress
Tundra
Hooray, Brainstorm fixes everything! My opponent leads with Tundra into Top. I draw a Scrubland and Duress away a Counterbalance, leaving a Ponder, Terminus, Mentor, and Snapcaster in hand. I play a Meddling Mage naming Monastery Mentor. My opponent misses on a Ponder. I Brainstorm into a Top and 2 Decays. My Meddling Mage is hit by Terminus and my opponent starts making land drops. I draw Mentor and my Cabal Therapy is met by a Force of Will. I Decay my opponent's Mentor and draw a Meddling Mage. I cast it, naming Force of Will, play a Mentor, make 3 tokens and pass. I attack for the win next turn through a Snapcaster.
Win - Turn 8 Monastery Mentor/Meddling Mage beats
1-0 (2-0)
Round 2 - UR Delver
Game 1 - I win the die roll and draw my opening 7:
Brainstorm
Ponder
Gitaxian Probe
Lim-Dul's Vault
Lotus Petal
Lion's Eye Diamond
Flooded Strand
This hand is great. I fetch an Island and Ponder into a Flooded Strand, leaving Brainstorm and Duress on top. My opponent plays Probe, Island, Delver. I draw Duress and pass. I cast Lim-Dul's Vault end of turn, pay 4 life, and find Dark Ritual, Doomsday, and Land... wow. I cast duress, discard a Force of Will, leaving Force of Will, Price of Progress, Forked Bolt, and 2 lands in hand. Sadly, due to the life loss from Lim-Dul's Vault, I am 1 mana short of winning due to the Price of Progress preventing me from casting Probe for free (cannot fetch a swamp with my Flooded Strand). My opponent does not find a blue card and I win with 1 life to spare with the standard cantrip + LED pile.
Win - Turn 4 Doomsday
TRANSFORM (see above)
Game 2 - On the draw:
Monastery Mentor
Dark Confidant
Gitaxian Probe
Duress
Lotus Petal
Cavern of Souls
Island
Great. My opponent leads with Volcanic Island into Delver. I draw a Preordain, cast it, and draw a Polluted Delta. My opponent flips Delver with Brainstorm and passes. I play Lotus Petal, Cavern of Souls (Human), Monastery Mentor, Probe, Probe, and laugh at my opponent's hand of:
Force of Will
Force of Will
Flusterstorm
Daze
Daze
Brainstorm
I Brainstorm and Therapy my opponent, leading to a concession.
Win - Turn 4 Mentor (cast on turn 2)
2-0 (4-0)
Round 3 - Storm
Game 1 - I lose the die roll and draw my opening 7:
Lim-Dul's Vault
Ideas Unbound
Ponder
Dark Ritual
Mox Opal
Polluted Delta
Scrubland
Probably the worst keepable 7 card hand. My opponent fetches an Underground Sea and Ponders. I regret keeping this hand. I draw an LED and Ponder, keeping a Cabal Therapy, Lotus Petal, and Land. My opponent cantrips. I play a Cabal Therapy on Infernal Tutor and miss, seeing Dark Ritual x2, Cabal Ritual, LED, and Cabal Therapy. I play out my artifact mana and pass. My opponent mirrors me, and I cast Lim-Dul's Vault at the end of their turn, finding a Doomsday. I punt by not putting 2 Tops in the pile to generate extra storm (I have 5 extra mana) and lose by 1 storm.
Loss - Turn 3 Doomsday (Ideas Unbound) PUNT
-1 Doomsday
-1 Preordain
-2 Ponder
+2 Dark Confidant
+2 Meddling Mage
I am unsure about this plan, but I figure that Dark Confidant will be good in a discard-heavy matchup, and Meddling Mage naming Tendrils of Agony is likely unanswerable post-board.
Game 2 - On the play:
Meddling Mage
Meddling Mage
Doomsday
Lion's Eye Diamond
Lotus Petal
Sensei's Divining Top
Flooded Strand
This hand is a great 5-card hand, so I keep. I play a Top and pass. My opponent probes and cantrips. I draw Dark Ritual and win.
Win - Turn 2 Doomsday (Top + LED)
I sideboard back to my mainboard configuration since I expect my opponent may bring in Abrupt Decays for Meddling Mage.
Game 3 - On the draw:
Doomsday
Dark Ritual
Dark Ritual
Dark Ritual
Tendrils of Agony
Cabal Therapy
Flooded Strand
I try to mulligan, but I can't. My opponent mulligans, cantrips, and passes. I draw a Lim-Dul's Vault, cast Cabal Therapy on Dark Ritual, hit one, and leave my oppoent with Infernal tutor, Dark Petition, Duress, and Flooded Strand. My opponent Duresses a Doomsday. I draw Top, play it and pass. My opponent cantrips and passes. I tap Top to draw Brainstorm and Flooded Strand and pass with mana open to protect my 3 Dark Rituals from a Cabal Therapy. My opponent casts Tendrils of Agony for 14, leaving me at 5 and them at 31; this was correct as I was about to win with a natural Tendrils next turn and Doomsday usually has difficulty storming far past 10. I brainstorm, putting two Tops into play and sculpt my hand. A few turns later, I cast Duress, 3 Dark Rituals, Doomsday (4x Dark Ritual + Doomsday), Probe, cycle my Tops 6 times, and cast Tendrils for 30.
Win - Turn 7 Natural Tendrils.
3-0 (6-1)
Round 4 - Miracles
Game 1 - I lose the die roll and draw my opening 7:
Brainstorm
Brainstorm
Brainstorm
Preordain
Gitaxian Probe
Mox Opal
Lotus Petal
I have two chances to draw either a land or a Petal/LED (22 outs), so I keep. My opponent leads with Flooded Strand and passes. I draw a Top and Probe (Force, Snapcaster, Terminus, Venser, 2x Scalding Tarn) into a Polluted Delta, fetching a Sea, play Top, Petal, and Mox Opal. My opponent plays a land and passes. I draw a Doomsday and my attempt to Brainstorm is hit by Pyroblast. I Brainstorm again, find Ponder and Lim-Dul's Vault, but no land. My opponent plays a land and passes. I attempt to cast Lim-Dul's Vault on my upkeep but am met by a Snapcaster on Pyroblast (I should have remembered this from Probe). My opponent finds a Counterbalance. I cantrip and pass. My opponent plays a Mentor, attacks, and passes. I find my Tendrils and lead with Duress, taking a Swords to Plowshares (if I find a 0-1 CMC spell in my top 4 cards I win). I Brainstorm into Island, Doomsday, Doomsday. I spin Top, miss, and am forced to Tendrils my opponent to 4. I lose soon thereafter.
Lose - Turn 8; I think I punted with terrible sequencing on cantrips.
TRANSFORM (see above)
Game 2: I draw my opening 7:
Cabal Therapy
Cabal Therapy
Duress
Sensei's Divining Top
Lotus Petal
Polluted Delta
Tropical Island
I open with Sea into Duress, which is met by Force of Will. I cast Therapy off of Petal, naming Top and hit, seeing Counterbalance, Flusterstorm, Island, and Scalding Tarn. My opponent plays an Island and passes. I draw a Cavern and play Therapy. My opponent responds with a Brainstorm (boooo). I miss, seeing a Venser and a Jace. I play Top. My opponent plays Counterbalance. I play a Tundra and pass. My opponent plays a land and passes. I find a Mentor, tap Top, play Cavern, Mentor, and Top (Force of Willed). My opponent topdecks an Izzet Staticaster. I Brainstorm into Probe, and hold up Brainstorm for the Staticaster. My opponent reveals Rest in Peace on top, so I flashback both Cabal Therapies and attack for 6. I Brainstorm in response to the Staticaster activation and my opponent scoops.
Win - Turn 6 Mentor
Game 3 - On the draw:
Monastery Mentor
Dark Confidant
Cabal Therapy
Brainstorm
Flooded Strand
Flooded Strand
Island
My opponent mulligans and plays Island, Top. I respond with Sea into Therapy, naming Counterbalance. I miss and see Brainstorm, Force of Will, Mindbreak Trap, and Venser. My opponent brainstorms into a second island. My Dark Confidant is Forced (Venser). My opponent finds a Counterbalance. I play a Mentor and make 2 tokens. I Ponder into Top, flashback a Therapy on Red Blast (hit), and my Meddling Mage is hit by Mindbreak Trap. A better play would have been to flashback Therapy (I miss out on 4 damage this way), and play Meddling Mage on Terminus. My opponent miracles Terminus in response to the Top. I topdeck Cavern and Mentor, but am met by a Snapcaster Mage flashing back Mindbreak Trap and I lose soon after.
Loss - Not sure if I punted this game
3-1 (7-3)
Round 5 - Aggro Loam
Game 1 - I win the die roll and draw my opening 7:
Doomsday
Brainstorm
Gitaxian Probe
Sensei's Divining Top
Cabal Therapy
Polluted Delta
Underground Sea
This hand is great and I lead with Sea into Top and pass. My opponent plays Barren Moor and passes. I draw a Ponder, Brainstorm into land, Probe (to check for Chalice) into Mox Opal, see Sylvan Library, Punishing Fire, Knight of the Reliquary, and lands. My opponent plays Sylvan Library. I find a Dark Ritual and win (Mox Opal was needed).
Win - Turn 3 Doomsday (2 Cantrip Pile)
TRANSFORM (see above)
Game 2 - On the draw:
Monastery Mentor
Brainstorm
Sensei's Divining Top
Abrupt Decay
Duress
Lotus Petal
Scrubland
This is fine. My opponent leads with a Bojuka Bog. I draw Dark Confidant and play it off of a Lotus Petal. My opponent plays a Chalice on 1. I miss on lands and pass. My opponent plays a Dark Confidant. I draw a land and Petal, Decay the Confidant, and attack. Next turn I cast Mentor, Petal, and cast Brainstorm into Chalice. My opponent gets a Knight off of Green Sun's. I cast many spells into Chalice and win.
Win - Turn 6 Mentor/Dark Confidant Beats
Win Cons
-Won with Doomsday 3 times (1x Turn 2, 1x Turn 3, 1x Turn 4) (1x Turn 3 punt)
-Natural Tendrils 2 time (1x Turn 7, 1x Turn 8)
-Monastery Mentor beats 4 time (cast on turn 2, 2x turn 4, turn 7)
TLDR
4-1 (9-3) in MTGO Daily Event
2-0 vs. Miracles
2-0 vs. UR Delver
2-1 vs. ANT
1-2 vs. Miracles
2-0 vs. Aggro Loam
Thanks for reading and I'll be interested in any feedback!
Here's the deck:
Mainboard
4x Sensei's Divining Top
4x Brainstorm
4x Ponder
4x Gitaxian Probe
1x Preordain
4x Cabal Therapy
3x Duress
4x Doomsday
2x Lim-Dul's Vault
1x Ideas Unbound
1x Tendrils of Agony
4x Dark Ritual
4x Lion's Eye Diamond
4x Lotus Petal
1x Mox Opal
4x Polluted Delta
4x Flooded Strand
2x Underground Sea
1x Tundra
1x Tropical Island
1x Scrubland
1x Island
1x Swamp
Sideboard
4x Monastery Mentor
4x Dark Confidant
2x Meddling Mage
2x Cavern of Souls
3x Abrupt Decay
Notes
Lim-Dul's Vault vs Burning Wish
Not having Burning Wish can often lead to having 1 less storm in the pile (which led to my miscount in game 1 of round 3), which can be mitigated by using two Tops to generate storm.
Also, having a Tendrils of Agony in the deck also allows us to fight against Counterbalance relatively well, using Top to make land drops and naturally cast 10 spells. I believe this configuration has the best pre-board game of any storm deck against a resolved lock-piece.
Lim-Dul's Vault overperformed and I am unsure if I was especially lucky with the results or if finding Dark Ritual + Doomsday is a relatively common outcome. This allows us to play only 4 Dark Rituals without having to run Rain of Filth.
Monastery Mentor/Cavern of Souls/Dark Confidant
Previously I would board in 4 Monastery Mentor and have a hybrid post-board plan. I have found that this leads to many games drawing half of each strategy, so I decided to increase the size of the transformative sideboard which required the aforementioned switching from Burning Wish to Lim-Dul's Vault. Cavern of Souls outperformed my expectations (see round 2 game 2) and allowed me to ignore many hands stacked with countermagic. I am unsure if Dark Confidant is the best support creature to Monastery Mentor and this needs more testing.
The 4-1 post-board result is encouraging.
Mox Opal
I have tried running different numbers of this very powerful card. With 2-3, we need to also include at least 2 artifact land, but I think the first copy provides the most value for the least risk. This card and the one copy of Preordain are the flex slots in the list and I will be happy to hear any opinions on this.
Viability
In my limited testing I did not feel as though there was a matchup I was heavily unfavored in (other than Eldrazi pre-board; post-board I believe we are favored). Even against Miracles with Counterbalance+Top, I think that with Tendrils of Agony mainboard we are able to win this matchup much of the time. Monastery Mentor gives us a very high game 2 win % (obviously worse if opponents know about it), and sideboarding for game 3 is something I am still trying to figure out; whether or not to board back into the storm plan or to stay with Monastery Mentor.
Last edited by DireNTropy; 06-16-2016 at 02:38 AM.
good ideas. have you been on stormboards? i tried a list with a transformative sb but i dont think i had cut the red. considered it but didn't. glad to see you're doing well with it. keep it up and keep posting results! :)
-rob
You forgot to list tendrils in the main. :)
Thanks! Fixed.
Interesting approach and I applaud you for trying it out. I hope you keep at it... We need way more data than a single league to really make any kind of assessment.
Very interesting build.
I am a Doomsday enthusiast so I am glad to see innovation about this archetype.
My question: against Storm, G2, why did not you go for T1 Meddling Mage?
For sideboarding, my gut feeling is you can go up with Meddling Mages (completely unexpected) and remove Confidants. I would add some removal too like a couple of Echoing Truths.
I would like to explore a build with a couple of artifact lands and one more Mox Opal.
Congrats
I have tried some flavor of the transformative sideboard and various counts of Mox Opals in this deck to reasonable success in the past. This is the first iteration where I cut Burning Wish and the wishboard. I definitely agree that we need more data (I'm hoping that I will get some help with this) before we come to any meaningful conclusions.
Lim-Dul's Vault is great in pre-board games where we do not mind trading card disadvantage for speed (post-board storm games punish card disadvantage, and Lim-Dul's Vault is sub-par post-board). I think the 4x Doomsday/2x Lim-Dul's Vault is faster than 3x Doomsday/3-4x Burning Wish and allows us to find Doomsday on turn 2 with basic lands.
Thanks!
I knew I was 1 Dark Ritual away from winning on turn 2 (turns out I only have a ~20% chance to hit) and playing a turn 1 Top is almost automatic. However, I do realize that Meddling Mage on Tendrils of Agony likely wins the game against a Storm opponent that does not expect permanent-based hate (I would like a confirmation on this assumption), so in hindsight the Meddling Mage play is better since it protects against a turn 1 win from my opponent.
I have tried 2-3 Mox Opal with 2-3 Seat of the Synod and I have found that the deck's turn 1-2 potential increases but the consistency drops (opening hands with 2 Mox Opal and no metalcraft, null rod becomes unbeatable, wasteland is worse, etc). I have been happy with 1x Mox Opal and the traditional 8x Fetch/2x basics manabase.
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