How did you manage lose against Storm, despite running 4 Thorns and Leylines post-board?Originally Posted by Noloam_
because displacers and obligators are not gonna cut it game 1. game 2 he was just lucky :(How did you manage lose against Storm, despite running 4 Thorns and Leylines post-board?
Matter Reshaper in the colorless build isn't any better in that regard. At least Obligator has haste.
I still don't understand why you fear Storm so much. It feels like you overestimate what they're capable of because you have years of Storm experience while I don't give a shit and it just works out.
thorn main is better in that regard. it is gg from the moment that hits the board.
well one of the best stormplayer of europe is always playing it in my local store. so this has some inpact on my thinking in paper game for sure. i guess you just have been lucky till today. if you only play chalice or TKS main. there is a great chance you have none in your opener. if you dont know where you are playing against, you keep and get wrecked.
i also became quite unsatisfied by a game against burning reanimator today. i will mulligan to leyline in the future.
i kept on the play: 3 eldrazi temple, TKS, endbringer, thorn, smasher...... and the labresults were that i got owned.
Last edited by Noloam_; 05-21-2016 at 06:40 AM.
Burning Reanimator is "Leyline or bust" - everything else is doomed to fail because they WILL reanimate something T1 to wreck you.
thanks for confirming that. i believe i almost kept the best non-leyline hand. so we will stick with the hate-only plan
i got a question concerning the legacy challange. how do you join these and when are they held?
If you have 4 thorn 4 TKS maindeck there's an 80% chance you have at least one in the opener if not more. Though one TKS isn't going to stop storm unless you get lucky. Storm can beat thorn in theory with a big pile of ritual effects, but it's unlikely if you have a significant clock to back it up. If you want to beat storm, you can easily do so with this archetype out of the sideboard with the amount of hateful permanents you can throw down from leylines to sphere's to thorns to 3spheres. Warping wail is insane against them too as they are dependant on key sorceries resolving to win the game/straight counterspell for 1C usually.
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Finished 2-1-1 last night ,bringing my overall record to 55-26-3 with the white version. I tested an obligator last night in the slot of one of my displacers, it was ok. ( i stole an ulamog and that was cool.) I had some interesting things occur last night while playing and wanted to share
RD1 U/R delver he wins the roll,and takes game 1 with swifspear into the 1/3 flying prowess dude into p.o.p. Game 2 and three i had chalice .thorn draws (1-0)
RD 2 MUD Dont remember the details other that it was three games and ensnaring bridge and Ugin
won him both games.. very hard to beat decks that go bigger ,faster. ( 1-1)
RD3 esper stone blade HE wins the roll and play a tnn into tnn into batter skull it was over. Game 2 i smash him with turn 2 tks into run 3 tks into smasher. Game three was very drawn out. I all is dust his board of jace, stone forge and batter skull ,leaving me with just one mimc in play and him at 24 ..I play an end bringer and a 3/3 endless on just to try to get him dead asap. he supreme verdicts ,I have another end bringer. We go to turns. One more turn i would have had him ...LLLLLAAAAMMMMEE. (1-1-1)
RD4 12post . They win the roll and an early primetime followed by a propaganda into an early ulamog gets there . This is the game i stole an ulamog with obligator ...still doesn't get there.. Game 2 went mimic,mimic, endless one for 2 , TKS turn 2 ,Endbringer turn 3. This last game is the interesting one . i get off to a good start but he plays 3 propaganda and a tabernacle..but not a lot of post lands .. Essentially because of the propagandas i can't attack and pay for my creatures to stay alive so i wait...eventually drawing into a end bringer which i start pinging him with and then i find a world breaker that i don't pay the tabernacle tax for and i keep looping the world breaker every other turn killing his locust lands that he slowly starting to assemble ( he has 4 cards in hand ) . i eventually get him down to 5 at which point i pay for tabernacle and the 3 propagandas and end the game. (2-1-1)
I could see obligator being good. i could also see it being very bad.colored eldrazi slow the deck down a lot . As far as the storm matchup goes i have heard people say that storm is hard (local players)but i have lost a grand total of 1 GAME to storm and am current 8-0 in matches. i honestly don't understand how people lose this matchup. and i'm only on 4 chalice 3 warping wail with 2 thorn and 4 leyline in the board.The plan is to play a lock piece and beat them down.. is super simple..
Last edited by metronome2charisma; 05-21-2016 at 09:32 PM.
I find Storm incredibly easy as well. I remember one match, it was game one and I didn't really know what he was on but I was pretty sure it was Storm since I know it's one of the 2 decks he plays regularly. I took a chance and played Chalice for 0, followed by Chalice for 1 and he scooped instantly lol. Game two, I played first turn thorns and got there off that alone. One lock piece generally gets there but in an ideal world you'd want a second due to abrupt decay out of the board in games 2 and 3. Sometimes you are just too fast for it to matter though... So far I'm 4-0 against Storm in matches, losing the odd game to their nuts draw and I'm also 2-0 against Sneak and Show. Surprisingly have not faced any reanimator at all, but I'm sure the leylines coming in likely gets the job done majority of the time.
I tried out the Obligator too and found him pretty underwhelming. Right now I'm bouncing back and forth from the colorless build to Barook's list and currently playing the latter, as Displacer is such a beast in so many unwinnable matchups. It gives me a fighting chance against Lands, for example, where as with the colorless version I just get stomped. Both are great against Miracles and the white splash has been better for me against Shardless. These are common decks in my area, though I'm still surprisingly having a lot of trouble against burn. PoP is a freaking BEATING and I need my lands in play to cast my creatures. Generally I don't play more than 3 against burn and I still get PoPed for 6, then generally followed up with a fireblast to the face to get there. Chalice for 1 does help a lot obviously (and maybe I should be going for Chalice for 2, especially post SB) but they also bring in StS, which is huge if they resolve it.
Burn is a hard matchup, but my general experience beating it has either been t1 lock piece into t2 thought knot pulling PoP or fireblast, or landing chalice for 2 and stabilizing. Chalice for 1 is great if u are on the play. In games 2 and 3 u will want chalice more on 2 just for smash to smithereens in addition to the usual targets.
Indeed. It can be hard. Boarding in sphere of resistances + thorns on the play also does the trick. You should mull a lot of hands with ancient tombs, is my experience
First of all thanks to Barook for this amazing list.
I played it today at a small Local event with about ~25 people and ended top 4. :)
We played 5 rounds and then played top 8. We splitted top 4 at the end.
1. Round: Burn 2:1
2. Round: Elves 2:0 MVP: All is Dust. He played Natural Order into Progenitus. On my turn All is Dust...gg :D
3. Round BUG Delver 2:0
4. Round Aggro Loam 2:1 MVP: All is Dust
5. Round Nic Fit, ID we played afterwards. I won both matches on the back of two early Reality Smashers
Top8:
1. Round: Eldrazi Mirror 2:0 MVP Eldrazi Displacer + Jitte
Then Top 4 split
I love this list and i prefer it over the colorless list because Eldrazi Displacer is such a bomb
Cockatrice: Deckerator
(
) Reanimator
Death&Taxes
As much as I love praise as the next guy, people give we me way too much credit for my list. I'm thankful that you enjoy my list and have success with it.
@maraxusofkelds: Are fast PoP/Fireblast kills bad for us? Yes, definitely - that's our main way to lose. It's mainly a dance on the razor's edge vs Burn and those matches are often won in the 1-2 life range. I can't really comment on the overall quality of Burn players that talked to me, but what surprised me most is that they (aka the common Burn player) fear us more than we fear them due to our lock pieces and fast clock to race them. And i found that insight pretty interesting.
I've switched back to your list after trying out colorless a bit. Yes it is explosive, but it just doesn't have strong enough answers against match-ups that are questionable. Lands for example with Displacer, just makes me wish I had Displacer always. I've noticed you went back to Brushlands? Any reason for that than the Corrupted Crossroads?As much as I love praise as the next guy, people give we me way too much credit for my list. I'm thankful that you enjoy my list and have success with it.
@maraxusofkelds: Are fast PoP/Fireblast kills bad for us? Yes, definitely - that's our main way to lose. It's mainly a dance on the razor's edge vs Burn and those matches are often won in the 1-2 life range. I can't really comment on the overall quality of Burn players that talked to me, but what surprised me most is that they (aka the common Burn player) fear us more than we fear them due to our lock pieces and fast clock to race them. And i found that insight pretty interesting.
i want to ask you all about your experiences with displacer vs lands? one of my friends is an experienced lands player. i dont see how displacer will do the trick. they end of turn tap your lands with r.port and make a swing for lethal in his turn. the deck also plays a lot of decays these days.
Last edited by Noloam_; 05-22-2016 at 06:57 AM.
If they have it they have it. My strategy vs lands is to bring in all 4 leylines or bust like vs reanimator to shut off their loam and punishing fire engine. If I am on the play, I mull hard for a t1 chalice or leyline. Lands is extremely slow without their loam engine, so I just try to race them and force them to draw into both thespian and dark depths in addition to port, which chances are they wont have all 3 without loam letting filter through their decks hard. If we include karakas, they would need exactly all 4 of waste land and port and thespian and dark depths all together to deal with any of our karakas and displacers.
I bring in needles, my last displacer, world breakers, and all 4 leylines vs this matchup. They have 0 tools to deal with leyline. Game 1 is a crapshoot depending on if i get to go first and land t1 chalice, or they just dont draw loam.
yes i know. my plan is the noloam plan: hope you dont get loam locked and aggro them before they can kill you XD
yes the multiple karakas plan does seem great. im also interessted about how worldbreaker rocks this match. it seems like a very expensive card in that matchup.
i almost forgot about lands tbh. i played 2 times against esper stoneblade and 1 vs shardless yesterday and still managed to go 5-0. shardless and esper is all i worry about online
here is my list as of yesterday.
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Eye of Ugin
3 Cavern of Souls
2 Corrupted Crossroads
2 mishras factory
2 karakas
1 waste
1 urborg ,tomb of yawgmoth
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
3 Endless One
3 Eldrazi Displacer
3 matter reshaper
2 endbringer
1 world beaker
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Lotus Petal
1 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Warping Wail
1 Dismember
Sideboard:
2 phyrexian revokers
2 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Dismember
1 Warping Wail
4 Leyline of the Void
2 All Is Dust
1 World Breaker
1 waste
1 oblivion sower
SO as you can see my list is set up to deal with lands a little better than most just because it pretty popular in pa/ny/nj area . Essentially what I've been doing is mulliganing to the leyline ( Which has actually been a mantra of mine since i began to understand the importance of actually doing it and not just having leyline in your deck.) But even beyond that having displacers,karakas, and end bringers and in my case world breaker have all been super good. and i have had all of them win me games against lands. Also don't be afraid to sandbag a karakas if you can. Its actually been a winning line for me a couple times which is why i bring it up.
Lands is a hard matchup but being able to untap with displacer in play is huge (or end bringer) Chalice is really good in this matchup unless they turn1 exploration ,Then you're better off waiting to set the chalice at 2 so they have to decay the chalice before they can loam lock you.
I also bring in oblivion sower , it works well with leyline and sometimes can just give you the dark depths/stage combo which is sweet!
One last thing . MULLIGAN TO THE LEYLINE. Its very important.
I've dabbled with both decks, and the match-up is a strange one. Eldrazi have Chalice and TKS (and potentially Jitte) while Burn has PoP. Generally Chalice/Equipment-decks are strong vs. Burn, but the fact that Eldrazi generally want at least 3 lands in play to do their stuff and all the lands are non-basic including painlands makes PoP so good that they can win even through Chalice at 1. However, TKS can nab PoP, which is on average game-winning (if they only have 1). They can rarely afford to kill TKS in spite of the death effect; only if Grim Lavamancer is in play and even then I'd only do it with Searing Blaze/Searing Blood. The match-up is not so much about the overall quality of the draws as those few particular cards; it's one of the few places where I'd consider mulliganing for something in Burn (but TKS punishes mulligans really hard so still generally not worth it).
It's not a match-up I'd want to see as either the Burn or the Eldrazi-player, because you can't really follow a gameplan to a likely win like with most match-ups, but you kinda have to just pray to the topdeck gods and roll with it. With the stock lists, there is no real strategic superiority to be had. It'd certainly be possible to design a Burn-list that would have strategic superiority over Eldrazi though (MD solutions to artifacts/enchantments, varied casting costs) and that may actually be worth doing in the current meta, provided the same tools can be used vs. Miracles as well. Likewise, it'd of course be trivial to design an Eldrazi-list with strategic superiority over Burn (Wastelands to reduce PoP effect by Wasting your own lands, a higher number of equipment and lock pieces, cheap ways to destroy Bridge post-board) but that's of course not worth doing if those tools can't be leveraged against more popular decks like Miracles/Delver/D&T/Lands/etc.
I like the look of Brushland than Crossroads. There is no other reason.
@Noloam_: Displacer is one of the best cards you can have vs Lands. Karakas is only so-so at stopping Marit Lage as they can either tap it down or waste it before producing the token at your EoT.
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