You are assuming that is the only action they have. I would prefer Sorin GM more of the time.Originally Posted by Brael
MTGO: Ricardio
Nic Fit: legacy's magical EDH deck
I came here to party and resolve prime time triggers.
"Well, I ain't calling you a truther." -Josh
IMGUR:http://ricardio69.imgur.com/all/
It's also making the assumption that Elspeth is the only action you have. If you curve Rhino into Elspeth and then +1 for example, you're going to be in much better shape against the Smasher plus whatever else they throw at you.
My opposition to Sorin in this list is threefold.
First of all it's a budget list which means cost is a factor, and I think that paying the Standard tax on a card like Sorin is a bad idea. It's better to put that money into at minimum your first Bayou, and pick the Sorin up in a year if you still want to play him and he has proven his worth.
Second he's not proactive enough. Yes, his -X can effect the board but I think it's better to add to your board than subtract from your opponents. The plus can be nice with Top but again being a budget list there's not access to a full selection of Tops either, and other topdeck manipulation like Courser is missing as well.
Third and this somewhat ties back into my first point. If you're playing the deck on a budget I think it's a bad idea to play cards that are still unproven. Sorin is 3 months old, instead focus on the stuff that you know you're going to want to still be using in a year or two. There's much better times to get a card like Sorin in the future, he also really only shines against Miracles which isn't listed in the meta this guy is going to be in. And honestly, I think the opinions of Miracles are a bit overblown. Yes it's 20% of the current meta, but that's still 1 match in 5. You can dodge it in smaller tournaments and in larger tournaments if you hit it in the early rounds you still have a pretty good chance of running into a bad pilot. It's really only the good pilots that make Miracles a formidable deck.
Looking at current decklists, I am amazed how well this deck is able to make use of new cards... Sorin GM, Tireless Tracker, Gitrog Monster e.t.c. The types of cards WotC likes to print these days really goes well with decks like these.
Creature decks are the future of Magic, big dumb green beaters are exactly where this deck wants to be. It seems like every block if not every set we get a goody or two that are atleast worth testing.
There's only so far that can take you though, short of another really powerful piece of acceleration or an interesting spell we're probably not breaking into T1, though I remember a point a year or two ago where we made it into DTB for a bit.
Really, it just goes to show how strong the GB shell is in Magic (GB dominates Modern too), we have a good 10 variants all based around that same shell and they're all formidable. Plus we have the best non tribal acceleration in the format. The Sol Land decks have stronger acceleration but they're also more restricted in what they can play. So many cards are options for us because we can ramp into playing basically anything.
Alright I'll make the switch to Elspeth
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
Budget? this is legacy and sorin is like $20. wtf did I just read...
EDIT: looked up price - $12.46 mid. PLEASE DONT BREAK THE BANK
MTGO: Ricardio
Nic Fit: legacy's magical EDH deck
I came here to party and resolve prime time triggers.
"Well, I ain't calling you a truther." -Josh
IMGUR:http://ricardio69.imgur.com/all/
What is this Standard format, and why does it sound disappointing?
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
because it is.
MTGO: Ricardio
Nic Fit: legacy's magical EDH deck
I came here to party and resolve prime time triggers.
"Well, I ain't calling you a truther." -Josh
IMGUR:http://ricardio69.imgur.com/all/
And he's basing it on a SaffronOlive list (he did a piece on several Legacy decks because of EMA) which is based on the article here http://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/...ons-for-legacy
It begins with a $500 list (and the most expensive of everything he posted) intended as a starting point for the format. I'm going to stand by my point, cheaper cards that are still effective while you get the more expensive stuff is better. For example getting a Bayou: Going with cheaper creatures over Walkers, dropping Teeg, and dropping a Tomb saves you $100 on the list which gets you 2/3 of the way to one and saving money where you can so you can get a Bayou rather than having to shock on an Overgrown Tomb every game will do way more for you than a Sorin and a few other cards combined will.
I do too.
Actually, it's for real.
As I'm more on a prison/lock list, I need time to set up. Chromanticore when casted at the right timing, buy a lot of time and is also a very good finisher.
The set up relevant depends on the opponent mostly.
A burn like deck: you can rush for it blinded.
A bug deck, just have to be aware of Jace/Liliana. Bringing it EoT on a rector is a planeswalker kill.
A StP deck, you will need an untapped tower or a sterling grove. If miracles, will quickly call a council or a terminus by itself.
Against Eldrazi (and agro deck generally), it's doing great since they mostly can't manage it (yes, there's end bringer..). Can't block it (yes there's Endbringer..). So it keep giving you life and prevent your opponent from attacking with most of his creatures. Which is quite complete when Starfield+3 other enchantements for a +1/+1, or a dead weight to weaken his big ones. (and sometime deed to wash everything else).
Against Marit Lage it gave you an extraturn with >20 life and can block each turn with starfield.
Against reanimator, it's a long shot but can help blocking Grisou.
Against infect.. it's a big flying creature.
In reality, there's only against combo (and painter) that it's not relevant at all.
Mostly, post side I keep it against discard deck, burn deck, bug deck and Eldrazi deck. Often against D&T too because of flying ability.
Yes, I thought I would need keeping answers to needle to freed deed from it. But perhaps primordium seal will be enought. I agreed F'sF is strictly superior (no decay, gain life, no return post deed at 3).
I'm still not convinced by Eldrazi Conscription. Even if it's doing great sometimes, you're not that happy when drawing it. Need set up to be bring in (most of time that means you're already winning anyway). And double the cases where you draw a quite uncastable card (with my beloved chromanticore).Otherwise
So, tomorrow I will try to remplace it by Living plane. Why this obscure enchantement?
It's also a finisher but a castable one with immediat effect. Great combo with Doomwake giant on field, it mostly gave me the game with starfield + pernicious. Or post side with Humility or Curse of death's hold. Even miracle can't came back after that.
I thougth about it in side on my firsts version (before multiple starfields and doomwake). But now it appears like an evidence. Sort of an Armagueddon tutorisable on Grove or rector. I will give it a try tomorrow.
So on my previous list I will try:
- Lili
- Eldrazi conscription
- O Ring
+ 1 Sterling grove
+ 1 Faith's fetters
+ 1 Living plane
@Ulysse, yea those kind of cards appear out of the sideboard so seal is much better I think. And living plane, I love it, great find, hope it works out :)
Junk and Stoned Rhinos.
But we aren't taking into account their replacements. What am I going to replace Teeg and other creatures with?
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
Sakura Tribe Elder, Scavenging Ooze, Sylvan Safekeeper, and Courser of Kruphix are 4 inexpensive options.
So cut Sorin and Teeg for 2 Coursers or a Courser and a Scooze is what I'm thinking. Maybe chop Sigarda for another large creature. I definitely think I want a large flying beater for my meta.
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
Sigarda is a big flying beater. I've tried to go without her several times and I've always regretted it. If you're playing white, play one.
I like Courser most as a 1 of, it gets exponentially better with Volrath's/Arbor and Top shenanigans but it's playable with 2 tops. You can also play Tireless Tracker instead of Truths, or since you're looking for good cheap cards add a Courser and a Tracker, again they compliment each other nicely and you're low on 3's anyways.
Hmmm I guess I have a lot of options. I'll have to do some testing. I like the idea of Tracker as card advantage. Honestly Painful Truths seems kind of harsh, but maybe that's just new to Legacy
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
One bonus from removing Eldrazi Conscription (and perhaps Chromanticore as well) is that you can remove the Lili's and Oppression since now you are adding in castable things that don't rely 100% on bringing into play with either Rector or Starfield. I think this is what I meant by clunky earlier, movements in this direction (if those changes do well) are going to make this deck more streamlined which is a big goal, if anyone wants to go back to some analytical drawing boards like what was written here a month ago.
Also, I will also comment on the OMG Living Plane tech. I have -always- wanted to play with Living Plane + Humility. All lands become 1/1 creatures that...no longer tap for mana lol.
I got my eyesight working again...dropped into a league for the first time in over a week and just got crushed twice in a row by Miracles. Guess I'm out of practice
Tracker is the rare exception to the rule where it's right to jump on the bandwagon of a new card (Siege Rhino was one as well). Tracker lines up really well in Legacy. If it dies you just trade 1:1 which is fine, but if it lives it will literally run away with the game. I would say that it only lives 1 game in 5 where it makes an appearance, when it dies it's the same as anything else in that slot, when it lives it's a Tarmogoyf with an Ancestral Recall attached to it and fetchlands/land drops help to always get value out of it.
If you look through the thread it's been a very popular 1 of lately, some lists are up to 3 now. I don't know what's optimal (I'm on the 3-4 plan myself) but I do know it's cheap and powerful.
If you're running white in the regular Nic Fit build don't ever, ever skip on Sigarda. It's one of the best threats vs. the format. She's good beyond compare.
About Tracker - I want to go up to 3 but am having trouble finding any. I'll get them eventually. They're beyond good.
Don't worry too much about Painful Truths. As long as you make sure your build gains enough life, you don't really feel it. Plus, this deck drawing 3 cards can be crazy dangerous.
Don't worry too much about duals. With enough fetchlands (10 or so) you can go entire games without ever fetching a shockdual that needs to hit the field untapped (roughly 70% of your games if memory serves). I did it for years. Yes, there will be situations where you lose 3 life on your first turn and that sucks, but it really doesn't happen that often.
That being said, getting my duals is one of the most rewarding things I've done when it comes to MtG. Hurray for store credits and insane price increases of cards I bought in yesteryears.
While I mostly agree with this, I think the first Bayou is too good to skip on. It's just involved in too many good opening lines like casting both sides of the Vet/Therapy combo.
In the usual 2 Bayou/1 Scrubland/1 Savannah split I think you can budgetize that to 1 Bayou/1 Overgrown Tomb/1 Godless Shrine/1 Canopy Vista and still operate at around 90% efficiency but the Bayou is king. Something like Painful Truths has a much higher opportunity cost if you have to shock during the game and the price of having it Wastelanded is just way too much.
Agree 100% on the most rewarding thing being actually getting the duals though. I got my Taiga's for Burn a year ago, and I got my duals for Nic Fit back in November after having taken a lot of advantage of our proxy tournaments. It's just very satisfying to know you've got those pieces, since they were pretty major purchases for me. I'm still missing Karakas but I imagine I'll have a bit of pride in owning one when I finally get one of them too.
There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)
