Wouldn't Abzan death blade just be some form of maverick?Originally Posted by Whit3boy316
Ehh similiar...
Bobs
Stoneforge w/ the standard equipts
Lingering souls
Goyf
Swords to plowshares
Abrupts
Lili
Siege rhino?
Hey guys I'm new to legacy as well as the shardless bug. I want to ask about which version is the best that you guys have ever seen. Please tell me about that cause I will attend a small tournament in a few weeks. Thanks in advance.
At risk of coming across as even more arrogant than I ordinarily do, I'm increasingly convinced that my list is pretty close to optimal for an open metagame. I'm deliberately sacrificing some points against D&T and Elves to shore up Eldrazi, 4c Loam, the mirror, Delver, combo, and Miracles while having a robust sideboarding plan against Lands.
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Shardless Agent
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Baleful Strix
1 Tombstalker
2 Liliana of the Veil
4 Brainstorm
3 Ancestral Vision
1 Ponder
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Force of Will
2 Hymn to Tourach
2 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Polluted Delta
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Wasteland
3 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
1 Swamp
1 Forest
Sideboard
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Leyline of the Void
1 Disfigure
3 Thoughtseize
2 Hymn to Tourach
1 Null Rod
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Dismember
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Umezawa's Jitte
I view the flex slots as:
Maindeck:
1 Maelstrom Pulse --> 1 Dismember, Diabolic Edict, Hymn to Tourach, or Toxic Deluge
1 Wasteland --> 1 Creeping Tar Pit or 1 Ponder
1 Tombstalker --> 1 Baleful Strix
Sideboard
1 Leyline of the Void --> 1 Engineered Plague
1 Thoughtseize --> 1 Disfigure or 1 Duress
1 Hymn to Tourach --> 1 Duress
Do y'all think the overall meta is too wasteland heavy to just run 3 sources of green mana? 1 trop 1 bayou and 1 forest? I know for strix and hymn heavy versions it's important to get your duals first but in the match ups that you're worried about getting wasted aren't you fetching conservatively anyways? Just been seeing a lot of lists running 2 ish bayou/trop trying to get a little perspective. Even though fetching conservatively kinda screws us anyways I think it's safer than just losing to wastelands and blood moons when we are usually just better in the long game anyways. What do y'all think. I also don't really want to buy duals right now and just have the set of 4 underground and 1 of each bayou and trop haha.
Do you tend to like dismember more than murderous cut since you're running the tomb stalker?
Also, against d+t would you bring in both null rod and jitte or one or the other
Both. You can choose your game plan based on what you draw when.
No....its mainly smaller crestures....search jj garlocks list. If you cant find it i can send it
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Ancestral Vision
3 Baleful Strix
2 Bayou
4 Brainstorm
1 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Force of Will
1 Forest
3 Hymn to Tourach
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
4 Shardless Agent
1 Swamp
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wasteland
hey guys this is my version. Is this okay? And one more question 2 pit+2 underground sea or 1 pit+3 underground sea? Thanks in advance.
That ponder in your list feels close to warmed refuse, btm. I tried it out and it's around 1 trillion percent better as a Sylvan Library. Also, the Tombstalker just felt like win-more, and could just be a Clique. The second maelstrom pulse is worse than Deluge #1 in the main. Finally, 4x Wasteland has been plain bad as well. You are playing a virtual 17 lands with 4 wasteland, 3 is the most I've ever been happy with.
I absolutely despise MD Sylvan Library, have been loving Ponder, and I haven't missed a colored source at all. Cascading into Sylvan Library is only good in the mirror and against Miracles, while it's way too slow against anything else. Ponder both increases the deck's low blue count while finding you what you need the turn you cast it rather than making you wait. I've lost way too many games I should've won to Cascading into Sylvan Library rather than something that immediately impacts the board or something that immediately gives you access to extra looks. I can see wanting a 4th Strix over the Tombstalker, though wanting an MD Clique is beyond me, and Tombstalker not dying to Bolt or Decay and being bigger than most other creatures is just incredible in any matchup where the battlefield matters. This configuration is less forgiving of just sitting there and trying not to die, but I've found it to be much better at winning games than any other way of building the deck.
EDIT:
It seems fine. It's a very stock list. Singleton Tar Pit is fine, but running two opens you up way too much to slow starts that don't go anywhere.
@btm: So we can agree to disagree with the Library/Ponder slot. I've never wanted a 4th Strix, in fact I only play 2, you run 1 more creature than I do anyway. That said, I play a Clique main, and I love it. It pitches to force, doesn't shrink my goyf, gets rid of dead cards in my hand (vision/hymn, looking @ you), still flies, and does combat tricks. I can't think of a time where it would have been better as a 'Stalker. I actually replaced a 'Stalker with the clique because of some of these reasons. I dislike more than 3 Wasteland because of how terrible they are against Miracles. I understand you said open field, but Miracles are around ~15% +/- in any given meta, so being mindful of that is relevant. Also unaddressed is the Deluge vs. Pulse. I see 0 reasons for 2/0 vs. 1/1 split.
Thanks. I'm quite new to shardless, so could you give me a new but "mature" version?
Clique just doesn't have enough body for the cost, Flash and Flying or not, in my experience. Dying to Delver's removal is a huge cost since they'll often be able to Bolt/Decay it and keep attacking in the air. Wasteland is great against Miracles, especially as they've gone down on total lands. You don't want to mana screw them with Wasteland (though you'll get plenty of opportunities to keep them tight), but as I've said before, Wastelanding fetchlands is an excellent way to make Top worse by forcing them to shuffle cards away rather than float them. It's not Needle or Null Rod, but it is a very strong option, especially game 1. Aside from that, Wasteland is absolutely critical to beating Lands.
My current list is on this page.
Im surprised that you arent playing any jace tms.
I'm not. Jace isn't at his very best here. I only play 1, and he's often only good when you are ahead.
Really? I think jace is one of the reasons i play this decks. U can accelerate it out and protect it well.
I dropped Jace too, but only because any decks with access to it are bringing in Pyroblasts against Shardless now.
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