[Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

[Izor]

I really like the Badlands in this deck, I feel like I fetch it more frequently than the Volc overall. But I also play the Bayou in the side, which leaves me with only 2 lands that don't produce black in the main (I run Swamp, 8 Fetch, Volc, Badlands, 2 Usea).

In TES black mana is much more important than blue mana overall, which is why I have found 2 Volcs to be quite annoying at times. ANT can afford more non-black lands due to Preordains, though you also don't want to end up like Caleb Scherer on Sunday when he naturally drew his 4 non-black lands and couldn't cast any business for the first 5 turns.

[Lemnear]

I really like the Badlands in this deck, I feel like I fetch it more frequently than the Volc overall. But I also play the Bayou in the side, which leaves me with only 2 lands that don't produce black in the main (I run Swamp, 8 Fetch, Volc, Badlands, 2 Usea).

In TES black mana is much more important than blue mana overall, which is why I have found 2 Volcs to be quite annoying at times. ANT can afford more non-black lands due to Preordains, though you also don't want to end up like Caleb Scherer on Sunday when he naturally drew his 4 non-black lands and couldn't cast any business for the first 5 turns.

I found the Badlands mainly relevant in case I draw a hand of U.Sea, Fetch, Discard and Brainstorm, so one can T2 Brainstorm off the U.Sea, Fetch the Badlands to cast discard and still be able to combo off turn 3 with the mentioned BR mana via Badlands & U.Sea.

I think thats a very special scenario where Badlands really shines compared to Volcanic Island. I am not convinced that this is really worth the potential trouble with casting cantrips which comes by having only 10 to 11 blue lands in certain lists. For me there is still a question mark floating over the swamp, given we only run 6 discard spells (prenoard at least) and the [T1 Swamp + Discard; T2 combo] isn't quite THAT common

[Bryant Cook]

I found the Badlands mainly relevant in case I draw a hand of U.Sea, Fetch, Discard and Brainstorm, so one can T2 Brainstorm off the U.Sea, Fetch the Badlands to cast discard and still be able to combo off turn 3 with the mentioned BR mana via Badlands & U.Sea.

I think thats a very special scenario where Badlands really shines compared to Volcanic Island. I am not convinced that this is really worth the potential trouble with casting cantrips which comes by having only 10 to 11 blue lands in certain lists. For me there is still a question mark floating over the swamp, given we only run 6 discard spells (prenoard at least) and the [T1 Swamp + Discard; T2 combo] isn't quite THAT common

Swamp is crucial in match-ups like Death & Taxes and Lands. Especially for Massacre.

As for Badlands, I too use it more than I use Volcanic Island. The scenario you mentioned happens more than you'd think, but there's also the fact that Badlands helps cast Abrupt Decay where Volcanic Island makes me sigh.

[Lemnear]

Swamp is crucial in match-ups like Death & Taxes and Lands. Especially for Massacre.

As for Badlands, I too use it more than I use Volcanic Island. The scenario you mentioned happens more than you'd think, but there's also the fact that Badlands helps cast Abrupt Decay where Volcanic Island makes me sigh.

I doubt Badlands works as an argument for Decay in terms of Black mana, if you play Swamp, 2 Seas and 7 Fetchlands and will drop more lands in general as these matchups where we board decays take longer postboard. Being stuck with Cantrips in hand because one only has non-island cards, is miserable if you want to reach T.hold.

I still favor to open my games with a Volcanic rather than an U.Sea, if I have the choice and option

[Izor]

I found the Badlands mainly relevant in case I draw a hand of U.Sea, Fetch, Discard and Brainstorm, so one can T2 Brainstorm off the U.Sea, Fetch the Badlands to cast discard and still be able to combo off turn 3 with the mentioned BR mana via Badlands & U.Sea.

I think thats a very special scenario where Badlands really shines compared to Volcanic Island. I am not convinced that this is really worth the potential trouble with casting cantrips which comes by having only 10 to 11 blue lands in certain lists.

I agree with Bryant, I also often fetch Badlands as my second dual to go with Usea. We only plays 8 blue spells (less than that after sideboarding) and with the majority of my hands I'm more comfortable having Usea+Badlands than Usea+Volc in play on turn two. Sometimes you want to cast a discard spell followed by Dark Rit into combo on turn 2. Sometimes you have two Dark Rits and your opponent is threatening to stop your combo by countering the first one which leaves you unable to cast the second one, etc.

Also, I wouldn't even want to start a discussion about which one is 'better'. Both Volc and Badlands are better in specific scenarios, none of them is generally the better card in the deck, so I want access to both. I'm not advocating running 2 Badlands but I'm also convinced I don't want 2 Volcs. You'll draw 1-land hands with Badlands that leave you unable to cast your cantrips, but you'll also draw cantrip-less hands with Volc as your only land and a potential kill off of DarkRit+Infernal+LED. Either situation is bad.

For me there is still a question mark floating over the swamp, given we only run 6 discard spells (prenoard at least) and the [T1 Swamp + Discard; T2 combo] isn't quite THAT common

I run the Swamp for the same reasons as Bryant, but I agree with you that it sometimes feels odd to have it and I'm not 100% convinced it's right in TES. I think it's more common to go turn 1 discard into turn 2 cantrip + combo than what you said above, which is why I often feel like I have to get a Usea instead of a Swamp anyway turn 1. Turn 1 Swamp also won't let you cast cantrip into red rituals at all on turn 2 unless you also have a Petal. In general if you keep a hand that has both a cantrip and a RoF, you really can't fetch the Swamp at all without slowing yourself down significantly. It almost feels like playing basics without compromising your mana too much is a luxury only ANT has, because they have a much higher chance to be able to go off without any initial red mana.

[Bryant Cook]

I doubt Badlands works as an argument for Decay in terms of Black mana, if you play Swamp, 2 Seas and 7 Fetchlands and will drop more lands in general as these matchups where we board decays take longer postboard. Being stuck with Cantrips in hand because one only has non-island cards, is miserable if you want to reach T.hold.

I still favor to open my games with a Volcanic rather than an U.Sea, if I have the choice and option

I 100% had to mulligan a hand I wanted to keep over the weekend because it was a one land Volcanic Island hand with an Abrupt Decay in it. If it was Underground Sea, I would've snap kept. This is a real issue. Why do I want to reach Threshold? What does that have to do with anything?

[Lemnear]

I run the Swamp for the same reasons as Bryant, but I agree with you that it sometimes feels odd to have it and I'm not 100% convinced it's right in TES. I think it's more common to go turn 1 discard into turn 2 cantrip + combo than what you said above, which is why I often feel like I have to get a Usea instead of a Swamp anyway turn 1. Turn 1 Swamp also won't let you cast cantrip into red rituals at all on turn 2 unless you also have a Petal. In general if you keep a hand that has both a cantrip and a RoF, you really can't fetch the Swamp at all without slowing yourself down significantly. It almost feels like playing basics without compromising your mana too much is a luxury only ANT has, because they have a much higher chance to be able to go off without any initial red mana.

To elaborate: the T1 Volcanic roots on me usually casting cantrips before the discard unless I am on the draw and know I face Counterbalance or a combo deck. I dislike T1 discard and not being able to kill T2. I would not want to start sculpting my hand after blowing the discard spell and giving my opponents the time to find permission again. Even worse it is if you are on the play against unknown and fire your Duress/Therapy(blindcall FoW for example) into D&T, not only indicating clearly what you are playing but also wasting time and cards without your discard finding a target. Its so thankful to see opposing openers which tell you immediately that you can kill them even without checking their hand or if sandbagging your discard might be better. By cantripping first you can mimic URx Delver or SneakShow while getting more options rather than throwing your Duress against a hand with creatures or stuff you don't care for anyways.

[Pelikanudo]

I've been using recently this manabase:

http://tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=19494&iddeck=148318

As If i were to play a fetch manabase this was going the 1st candidate as always stated...

which has been good for me in the last 2 torunaments.

Having in mind the 12 lands manabase all produced Blue, for example, the current Bryant Manabase has 2 less blue producers = total 10 blue producers. = shit.
Also, Sure the manabase only has access to 8 Green and now Xantid isnt played, but i found scenarios in which I needed green and simply I didnt access to because of playing 9 Green producers - a point I just dont like. 8 < 9

the 14th land in side - bayou was sided in vs RUG - which i faced twice - I thought i was going to have some troubles regarding stifleToMyFetch, but this didnt happen so great!
regarding Lands and D&T - as I have never had issues in destroying these archetypes even using Gemstone - now I have even less problems even not having Swamp - also great!

Regarding Grapeshot - I recognize I took this card out because of Void Snare - as this card seem like a Catch All - but reading the nostalgic article from Bryant and remembering old ages of G.Shot I again included it in my side and - sure the card has won me some match ups... I dont even play Massacre. was a mistake to take tghis card out and will never leave again my side....

some time ago i play now Pulverize in my side and because of this and because i wanted to test CoS i cahnged my manabase, now I dont play CoS, im not sure if go back to my old gemstones bulld and having my 7th discard in base... I think by the moment i'll increase in my side the number of discard and I'll just add to my base for 2nd and 3rd games when needed. but im not sure if the low count of discard affected my S&S and Omnitell match ups. issue that worries me a little...

Apart, well I just to clarify that: yes, no matter who thought on that thing or other or invented such idea regarding TES or likes. BUT the those improvements came from a man that is not Bryant Cook, and sometimes seems that becausue that people just dont play too much or dont win torunaments doesn't seem they are good at developing a deck - because Bahamut was key so that we now are playing G.P+EtW+Therapy AND long time elapsed since he proposed his idea which was uniquely accepted by Emidlin. Snif. likely if that idea had been accepted by Mr Cook, then now we would have been developing a more evolutioned idea of the TES deck. Hell I remember (Fuck my so fucking good memory!) also when he said that B.W. was likely the worst card in the deck apart C.M. and now I ask my self - maybe still it is! maybe I should substitute my 4th B.W. for the 7th discard! (dont think I'll do that)

Again: Thanks Bahamut for bringing us the TriForce! From Game of Thrones: I remember who was the guardian of the North!

[Bryant Cook]

To elaborate: the T1 Volcanic roots on me usually casting cantrips before the discard unless I am on the draw and know I face Counterbalance or a combo deck. I dislike T1 discard and not being able to kill T2. I would not want to start sculpting my hand after blowing the discard spell and giving my opponents the time to find permission again. Even worse it is if you are on the play against unknown and fire your Duress/Therapy(blindcall FoW for example) into D&T, not only indicating clearly what you are playing but also wasting time and cards without your discard finding a target. Its so thankful to see opposing openers which tell you immediately that you can kill them even without checking their hand or if sandbagging your discard might be better. By cantripping first you can mimic URx Delver or SneakShow while getting more options rather than throwing your Duress against a hand with creatures or stuff you don't care for anyways.

It goes both ways, by not casting turn one discard your opponent could put Griselbrand, Thalia or Counterbalance into play. It's all hypotheticals and I'd rather run a different manabase than lose games to things that immediately lock the deck out of the game.

Also, it appears that Bahamat has done all of the work on TES since 2012. May he have many handjobs from internet trolls!

[Zooligan]

Bryant can NOT delete posty on TheSource if that was the topic.

The manner in which they disappeared led me to believe it was Bryant doing it. I have no problem admitting when I was incorrect. If it is indeed the case that he cannot selectively delete posts from the thread he started, then I was mistaken and apologize for accusing Bryant of doing so.

[Lemnear]

Also, it appears that Bahamat has done all of the work on TES since 2012. May he have many handjobs from internet trolls!

So, do you eMail AJ, Alexandre & Co. and tell them we can stop adjusting/testing/developing as the deck is solved since 2012, or should I make a FB group?

[Bahamuth]

Now bow before your lord and savior,

Bahamat

[Bryant Cook]

[LDX]

So, do you eMail AJ, Alexandre & Co. and tell them we can stop adjusting/testing/developing as the deck is solved since 2012, or should I make a FB group?

SolvedDeck.GG.

Man, really, it like feels like everybody is trying to pimp out and adjust/optimize their guns, but barely anyone knows how to shoot. I could be wrong but the feeling I have is a lot of people arguing on which card is the best when I don't have the impression they know how to play said card.

I feel like an alien in this thread trying to learn and optimize my play instead of my decklist. It's fun to read tho, I love my daily drama dose. :)

[Morden]

Sorry if I am off topic, but did anyone go to worcester? Results? Any big change in the meta?

[Idionym]

Sorry if I am off topic, but did anyone go to worcester? Results? Any big change in the meta?

Just go to SCG if you want to see the results.

No changes in the meta, other than mono-red sneak attack making a showing.

[Lemnear]

Again: Thanks Bahamut for bringing us the TriForce! From Game of Thrones: I remember who was the guardian of the North!

I am so thankful that we can now close the thread as having namedropped cards in the past solves any future metagame issues and makes development/testing obsolete. Eureka!

Oh in case Eldritch Moon, has any future playables for any deck ever discussed on this page: Consider this link as pointing to the respective card and me claiming ownership of any future development containing any of these.

P.S.: can someone point us to the individual who was the very first mentioning "Swamp" in an Online forum discussing MtG, as Bryant sure want to thank him for developing TES' current manabase

P.P.S. by that logic, I have developed TC in Delver and DTT in S&T decks. Damn!

[Asthereal]

Guys, stop derailing the thread all the time.

Who helped develop which exact deck isn't relevant. Joking about it is worse than that.
Discussing who deletes which post has been done thoroughly, and all posts about it were deleted.
This kind of stuff is only giving the mods extra work.

The discussion about the mana base, on the other hand, is highly relevant.
Has anyone made extensive notes during competitive play about the amount of times where
a. non-blue lands made casting cantrips impossible, vs.
b. non-black lands made going off or casting Decay impossible?

Right now we're slinging arguments for either.
Evidence from recorded numbers would help greatly.

[Whitefaces]

Salt levels are unreal, pretty hilarious how someone can get so wound up about something so trivial.

What do people think of Collective Brutality? My first instinct is it's too weak to soft countermagic in the matchups you'd want it (Delver) or too expensive vs Thalia, but being able to take out a Delver or DRS and strip a Force is pretty enticing. It can help empty your hand for Infernal Tutor in a pinch too.

[Bryant Cook]

Right now we're slinging arguments for either.
Evidence from recorded numbers would help greatly.

Having been playing the physical deck in 3 large events (GP Columbus, ee4 and SCG: WOR) over the last 2 months, I can safely say that in my experience Badlands has been a major upgrade over the second Volcanic Island. I don't just theory craft, I play in events both large and locals. If it was an issue, I would've said something by now.

As for Bayou's place, it depends if you want to give up a sideboard slot or not.

Collective Brutality reminds me a lot of Izzet Charm (Albeit easier to cast), it wants to be good, but it's likely just too expensive. I mean, in theory, you could try two over the pair of Duress (which would be worse for Ad Nauseam).