[Primer] Elves!

[dte]

you prefer to remove 2 heritage than 1 heritage and 1 visio or 2 visio?
The MU is fast, you want mana asap for early NO/glimpse, ooze activations or to pay for tabernacle, and you usually prefer to recur sage on mox/explo than visio, and anyway symbiote has a halflife of about 1 turn.

[Shagstaman]

It's mostly hedging vs chalice...and in my experience the matchup isn't that fast. Sure, they can win with an early 20/20...but it seems to come down more often to grinding out p.fires and looping loams while they try to not die.

The only case for heritage is that it can help pay for tabernacle... otherwise it's kinda garbage vs them IMO (emphasis on M)

[AznSeal]

It seems like there are 2 current philosophies.
1) go linear game 1 and force decks to answer us (NO elves)
2) be flexible game 1 and have general answers preboarded (Chaos elves)

So far, it seems like people who play the NO version try to have flexible answers in the SB. For a large event such as a GP, do you think it would be interesting to play chaos elves MD with a 3 NO+fatty SB package coming in for the maindeck flexible cards that aren't applicable in the particular matchup?

[prdgchild]

It seems like there are 2 current philosophies.
1) go linear game 1 and force decks to answer us (NO elves)
2) be flexible game 1 and have general answers preboarded (Chaos elves)

So far, it seems like people who play the NO version try to have flexible answers in the SB. For a large event such as a GP, do you think it would be interesting to play chaos elves MD with a 3 NO+fatty SB package coming in for the maindeck flexible cards that aren't applicable in the particular matchup?

Reverse side boarding? I like the idea, risky, try it out and let me know!

[AznSeal]

I've decided that I still like NO too much game 1. I think I've finalized my list for a wide-open GP meta. Any changes y'all would make?

Creatures: 29
2 Birchlore Rangers
1 Craterhoof Behemoth
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Elvish Visionary
3 Heritage Druid
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Quirion Ranger
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Scavenging Ooze
4 Wirewood Symbiote
1 Wren's Run Packmaster

Spells: 11
4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Natural Order

Lands: 20
2 Bayou
1 Cavern of Souls
2 Dryad Arbor
2 Forest
4 Gaea's Cradle
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Pendelhaven
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills

Sideboard: 15
SB: 3 Abrupt Decay
SB: 3 Cabal Therapy
SB: 1 Krosan Grip
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Sylvan Library
SB: 2 Thoughtseize
SB: 2 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Progenitus

I've cut 1 NO and 1 Hoof maindeck to make room for 1 WRP and 1 Scooze. WRP is REALLY good, and 3 NOs give me an "oops I win" with Craterhoof. The maindeck Sage and Scooze has been fantastic. My only iffy slot is Progenitus in the SB. It's really good against grindy match-ups but it makes Miracles kind of bad. I think that slot is the one i'm mostly trying to play around with and I may switch it with Elderscale Wurm, Ruric Thar, or even Meilira (infect is scary). Overall, i'm pretty happy with it.

If I was to run my deck at a local FNM for a 4 round tournament, I'd go for more combo and probably run -1 WRP, - 1 Scooze, +1 Craterhoof, +1 NO in the MD and -1 Krosan Grip, +1 Scooze in the SB.

[danyul]

IMO

MD -WRP/-Scooze, +Hoof
SB -Prog, +WRP/+Scooze

[square_two]

Anyone have luck playing with Winter Orb? I tried 3 in my 75 tonight at my local legacy 4 round event and split finals with the other undefeated guy. 1 main, 2 side. Really saw it throw a wrench against Miracles and clench a win. Gave me time to get lot of value from Garruk W while he stumbled to pick and choose what to cast.

I was also playing 3 Opposition instead of Natural Orders. Really like how it can come down even with few creatures, and completely take over the game. I will try to experiment around some more with it - the mana base is difficult.

FYI it was typical NO list but with 3 Opposition, 1 Garruk W, 1 Winter Orb, 2 Coiling Oracle main. Single WRP and Hoof. Additional Garruk W and 2 Orbs in side.

[TGCRequiem]

As a player who never played with Garruk Relentless (to new), would someone clarify the matchups he's good in and and what the standard play patterns with him are? Having never played with him in struggling to figure out where he's good.

Thank you

[Zombie]

As a player who never played with Garruk Relentless (to new), would someone clarify the matchups he's good in and and what the standard play patterns with him are? Having never played with him in struggling to figure out where he's good.

Thank you

He's generally a tool for slow, grindy matchups that go long and where you can drown the opponent in card advantage. Primarily, Miracles has a hard time answering him and doesn't like hard-to-answer clocks that keep hitting them in the face after Terminus. I haven't gotten to play him much, but I'd personally bring him in vs. Miracles, Tezzerator type decks, Shardless, Maverick, D&T, the like.

[Tormod]

I play 2 hoof with 3 Natural Order.

I find I rotate between Packmaster, Scooze and Ruric That in the md flex spot. Right now Ruric Thar has been very good for me. About 3 months ago it was Packmaster that was doing a lot of heavy lifting for me.

[Animal]

Legacy FNM with 3-1 result with Chaos Elves. First time for me playing the chaos version and it seemed pretty good, even though there were no free "NO into Behemoth" wins that I have gotten used to.

List:
Creature (30)
1x Birchlore Rangers
1x Craterhoof Behemoth
4x Deathrite Shaman
4x Elvish Visionary
1x Gaddock Teeg
3x Heritage Druid
1x Llanowar Elves
4x Nettle Sentinel
3x Quirion Ranger
1x Reclamation Sage
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Shaman of the Pack
4x Wirewood Symbiote
1x Wren's Run Packmaster

Land (20)
2x Bayou
2x Cavern of Souls
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Forest
4x Gaea's Cradle
1x Pendelhaven
1x Savannah
4x Windswept Heath
4x Wooded Foothills

Instant (2)
2x Abrupt Decay

Sorcery (8)
4x Glimpse of Nature
4x Green Sun's Zenith

Sideboard (15)
2x Abrupt Decay
2x Cabal Therapy
2x Choke
1x Null Rod
2x Pithing Needle
2x Surgical Extraction
4x Thoughtseize

Results:
2-0 vs Dark Depths knight deck.
2-1 vs Death and Taxes.
0-2 vs Beltcher.
2-0 vs Sneak and Show.

Lessons learned:
- Against beltcher you need to mulligan into Thoughtseize, since Cabal Therapy is not enough (game 2 I named LED into Therapy and missed, he got turn 1 Beltcher into play and turn 2 kill).
- 2x Abrupt Decay in main seemed pretty good. I tried to find myself Jitte but I could not find one before the tournament.
- Its really hard to side things out since you dont have obvious "side out Natural Orders" package.
- I didn't fight against blue decks, so most of these games were against decks we would have a good matchup even with Natural Order version. However it seems good that we can win these matchups even though we have "nerfed" our deck against non-blue decks to fight more easily against blue decks.
- I am pretty happy with this sideboard that I now have. I would like to test Garruk Relentless in sideboard and Umezawa's Jitte in main, but I dont own these cards yet and my friends could not borrow me these before the tournament.

Now. Because this was such a good result, I wonder if I should be experimenting with NO builds or chaos builds. I have Finnish Legacy Championships coming up in October and I have to figure out a deck to play before that. I have also noticed that because this is my only Legacy deck, all Legacy players in Helsinki already knows I play Elves, which would probably lean towards chaos build to get some surprise against them with main deck silver bullets. Even my friends joke to me that I should start playing my Modern Grishoalbrand deck in FNM Legacy events just to have "what is he doing" effects.

[Lemnear]

I don't see a reason to maindeck Decays if one could run more Sages which do a lot of the same and have a body

[Shagstaman]

Any changes y'all would make?

I like 2nd cavern more than pendelhaven atm...and k.grip is kinda just bad in my experience--better as 4th decay or another hoser card. Aside from that, list looks good. Just play tight and keep good hands ;)

[Animal]

I don't see a reason to maindeck Decays if one could run more Sages which do a lot of the same and have a body

As we already have one Reclamation Sage, I see two Abrupt Decays more like "answers for everything". It is an uncounterable removal to a blocker, artifact, enchantment, some random d&t creature, etc. Specially when a big part of our plan in chaos elves is just going for plan B and hitting opponent with our unbuffed elves, removing a Tarmogoyf seems pretty good. I would however try Umezawa's Jitte instead of one Decay because of how it has won games in Julian's plays. I think that after first Sage, it is better to add Abrupt Decay to main instead of a second Sage.

[Julian23]

Just got a 5-0 in the Comp. Legacy League on MTGO wtih this builld of NO Elves. I think if you wanna play NO, 71/75 is pretty much set in stone. Only flex slots I switch up regularly are the 2 Garruks + and Gaddock&Savannah.

[Zombie]

That is one sexy SB.

[Julian23]

It was built with the idea of really committing to no longer using Enchantments/Artifacts against Miracles. Even thought the Garruks are decent vs them, the main plan really is grinding + the occassional end-of-turn-Decay-on-Top-into-kill.

[Atikin]

Just got a 5-0 in the Comp. Legacy League on MTGO wtih this builld of NO Elves. I think if you wanna play NO, 71/75 is pretty much set in stone. Only flex slots I switch up regularly are the 2 Garruks + and Gaddock&Savannah.

Why do you believe the md ooze and 1-1 split of cavern-pendelhaven is the perfect configuation?

[Lemnear]

As we already have one Reclamation Sage, I see two Abrupt Decays more like "answers for everything". It is an uncounterable removal to a blocker, artifact, enchantment, some random d&t creature, etc. Specially when a big part of our plan in chaos elves is just going for plan B and hitting opponent with our unbuffed elves, removing a Tarmogoyf seems pretty good. I would however try Umezawa's Jitte instead of one Decay because of how it has won games in Julian's plays. I think that after first Sage, it is better to add Abrupt Decay to main instead of a second Sage.

The simple difference is that Decay is no cardadvantage while Sage is to grind out games and gets even more nutty with Symbiote. It's 3cc so will basically never get stuck in Counterbalance, but removes it and goes smashing your opponents face. We played in the past without Decay but fought creatures with Symbiotes/Quirion block/bounce shenanigans or Packmaster.

[dte]

The simple difference is that Decay is no cardadvantage while Sage is to grind out games and gets even more nutty with Symbiote. It's 3cc so will basically never get stuck in Counterbalance, but removes it and goes smashing your opponents face. We played in the past without Decay but fought creatures with Symbiotes/Quirion block/bounce shenanigans or Packmaster.

Maybe you fail to see that 85% of the decks do not play CB?
And even against miracle Decay can eat mentor or target a SDT at the opponent EoT, which Sage cannot.

Against all the decks that do not play enchant/artos but creatures, decay can also be better. Decay a delver, and win. Sage?
Even against artifacts, on an opponent playing SFM into jitte, you can decay the jitte or the equipment carrier after equipment, sage cannot. It has to take a jitte hit if they can (throught StP, MoR, bolt, decay) prevent WS/QR block & bounce.

Sage is excellent, especially as it is a GSZ target. It is a clear staple as one-of in MD. But by no means it can replace Decay in all situations.