[Deck] Turbo Depths

[Mr. Froggy]

I switched out 3 Polluted Delta and tried out 3 Foothills in their place and the deck runs a lot smoother now.

I don't feel like buying the Catacombs on MTGO and in paper just yet.

The deck is good. Really good.

Nice job guys!

[ComplexPants]

Why did you choose cabal therapy instead of thoughtseize?


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[Mr. Froggy]

Why did you choose cabal therapy instead of thoughtseize?


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Because I love how much Cabal Therapy rips hands apart.

[ComplexPants]

Do you just guess? Seems like without a creature to sac or a way to look at their hand, it just loses value.

[Mr. Froggy]

Do you just guess? Seems like without a creature to sac or a way to look at their hand, it just loses value.

Playing Manaless Dredge has made me an expert with Therapy, and I've even sac'd an extra ESG to it for Flashback.

[Uboh]

Do you just guess? Seems like without a creature to sac or a way to look at their hand, it just loses value.

He actually has Gitaxian Probes in the deck, which is a way to look at the opponent's hand before Therapy. It's not much without the creatures to flashback Therapy, but I guess it's pretty much what storm decks do.

[Mr. Froggy]

He actually has Gitaxian Probes in the deck, which is a way to look at the opponent's hand before Therapy. It's not much without the creatures to flashback Therapy, but I guess it's pretty much what storm decks do.

The discard spell I'm not fond of in my list is Hymn to Tourach. I'd much rather be spending BB on Hexmage.

[apple713]

The discard spell I'm not fond of in my list is Hymn to Tourach. I'd much rather be spending BB on Hexmage.

Hymn is just mediocre. I have included it my sideboard for testing. I really only use it against combo decks because their only assets are cards in thier hand and although you can get value out of hymn it can also just wiff horribly. Its more than likely ill switch it out for something once i figure our what deck i need more help against.

[Mr. Froggy]

I think I'M going to try adrieng's manabase once Blooming Marsh comes out.

[apple713]

I think I'M going to try adrieng's manabase once Blooming Marsh comes out.

it's a solid manabase and you'll notice that he has met the minimum suggested colors that I indicated. He is also running 12 land tutors 1 of them is expedition map so it doesn't require colors. However, against a deck with moon it may be harder for him to recover if he doesn't hold a map back or search for basics with a tutor.

Keep in mind tho that everyone's metagame here is different. So while we all have most of the root cards the same, the variations likely help with the various metagames we encounter. I think the deck has gotten to a point where it's established and the differences in lists are there to deal with varying metagames. It would be extremely difficult to decide that one is better over another. Most, if not all of the cards that people are including in their variations have strengths/weaknesses over the other cards for those roles. Also, note that some have slightly different play styles. Some players may not be good with cabal therapy like you are. I would imagine i am poor with it because its not a card I ever play in legacy. So some of the deck variations account for things like that. Some players are better ALL IN players and might prefer a deck like spooky's or maybe they are better midrange and would prefer a deck like mine.


@Adrieng and others who have their lists posted in the primer (Negator77, Spooky, Adrieng). Let me know if you want me to update your list with something you post. I'll leave it the same until you tell me otherwise.

[Mr. Froggy]

it's a solid manabase and you'll notice that he has met the minimum suggested colors that I indicated. He is also running 12 land tutors 1 of them is expedition map so it doesn't require colors. However, against a deck with moon it may be harder for him to recover if he doesn't hold a map back or search for basics with a tutor.

Keep in mind tho that everyone's metagame here is different. So while we all have most of the root cards the same, the variations likely help with the various metagames we encounter. I think the deck has gotten to a point where it's established and the differences in lists are there to deal with varying metagames. It would be extremely difficult to decide that one is better over another. Most, if not all of the cards that people are including in their variations have strengths/weaknesses over the other cards for those roles. Also, note that some have slightly different play styles. Some players may not be good with cabal therapy like you are. I would imagine i am poor with it because its not a card I ever play in legacy. So some of the deck variations account for things like that. Some players are better ALL IN players and might prefer a deck like spooky's or maybe they are better midrange and would prefer a deck like mine.


@Adrieng and others who have their lists posted in the primer (Negator77, Spooky, Adrieng). Let me know if you want me to update your list with something you post. I'll leave it the same until you tell me otherwise.

I only got good with Therapy because I played it. A LOT. It got to the point where I could name cards in my opponents hand off their first fetch land/first card played.

Also, I'm more of an all in balls-to-the-walls type of player. I love how the deck can fit to anyone's play style. Its not something most decks can do.

[DNSolver]

Got top 16 in this month's Legacy challenge online. My decklist is in this thread.

R1: UR Delver Burn 0-2
G1 I have to mull to 4. The 7 card hand was very slow, with no ways to get either combo piece. Then the 6 and 5 had no lands.
G2 He has two Forces to stop my Chalice on 1 and my combo attempt after I mull to 6 cards.

R2: BRw Zombies + Bloodghasts with graveyard synergies 2-0

R3: Miracles 0-2
He had two Forces for my 2 Not of This Worlds G1 then topdecked Karakas, then G2 he gets around Chalice on 1 pretty well with Karakas, Clique, and Mentors.

R4: BUG Garbage 2-0

R5: UB Reanimator 2-0
Deck is garbage, easy win.

R6 and 7: Elves and Storm 2-0 2-1
Nothing to talk about here.

[ComplexPants]

Adrieng’s deck uses llanowar waste's. Is this because not using bayou protects against submerge? I haven't tried out a slower list like this, but it seems interesting.

Also, anyone have tips against Miracles. I am like 1-5 against them. In my last match, even with needles on the top, I never seemed to be able to keep up with all their answers.

[Mr. Froggy]

Adrieng’s deck uses llanowar waste's. Is this because not using bayou protects against submerge? I haven't tried out a slower list like this, but it seems interesting.

Also, anyone have tips against Miracles. I am like 1-5 against them. In my last match, even with needles on the top, I never seemed to be able to keep up with all their answers.

I try to bait out their FoWs, but since they have so much stuff against us the match up isn't exactly easy.

[DNSolver]

Could a super-control prison deck like this work? Kind of a combo of this deck and RG Combo Lands.

4 Depths
4 Stage
4 Urborg
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Polluted Delta
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Forest
1 Swamp
2 Barren Moor
4 Wasteland
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Tabernacle
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Maze of Ith

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
4 Vampire Hexmage

4 Life from the Loam
4 Crop Rotation
3 Expedition Map
4 Sylvan Library

Is this doable at all? Kind of like taking the more controlly, card-advantage version that I've seen around and taking it to the limit by maximizing on Loams. Perhaps if we put in Exploration / Mox Diamond? Has someone tried something like this and can tell me how viable it is?

[apple713]

Could a super-control prison deck like this work? Kind of a combo of this deck and RG Combo Lands.

4 Depths
4 Stage
4 Urborg
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Polluted Delta
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Forest
1 Swamp
2 Barren Moor
4 Wasteland
4 Ghost Quarter
1 Tabernacle
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Maze of Ith

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Dark Confidant
4 Vampire Hexmage

4 Life from the Loam
4 Crop Rotation
3 Expedition Map
4 Sylvan Library

Is this doable at all? Kind of like taking the more controlly, card-advantage version that I've seen around and taking it to the limit by maximizing on Loams. Perhaps if we put in Exploration / Mox Diamond? Has someone tried something like this and can tell me how viable it is?

if you flip back a couple pages you'll see that someone did well with a list similar to that. My only thing about that list is that if you are going to controls you might as well play RG lands unless you are porting the deck into a different shell like trying to combine dark depths and miracles or something.

[ComplexPants]

@DNSolver. I saw you 5-0 a competitive league. Congrats. How did you like Ancient tomb in the board? Also Have you considered Krosan grip in the board to deal with painter/miracles?

[Mr. Froggy]

Took the deck to my local legacy tournament and took away the grand prize.

Went 4-0

R1: UB Reanimator (2-1)
R2: RG Combo Lands (2-1) one of the funnest matches I have played in a while, I survived his Marit Lage attack and even countered his Karakas' activation thanks to NoTW.
R3: UG Infect (2-0)
R4: Burn (2-0) Turn 2 Marit Lages both games.

I updated my list a bit, will post it later.

[DNSolver]

@DNSolver. I saw you 5-0 a competitive league. Congrats. How did you like Ancient tomb in the board? Also Have you considered Krosan grip in the board to deal with painter/miracles?

5-0'ing leagues is pretty value for this deck, considering that each time you 5-0 you get boosters equivalent to $35.

I've been bringing in Ancient Tomb with the Chalices - I consider it the 9th anti-combo slot (along with 4 Surgicals 4 Chalices, though these don't work against all combo decks obviously). It's also fine to have as a land because it can act as a 4th Urborg in my list for comboing on three lands (Stage, Depths, Ancient Tomb). The only other realistic option is Maze of Ith which does little against Show and Tell (Needleing Griselbrand is your best here anyway), but can hold off Delver / Goyf for awhile. It's the only slot that I've found flexible in the deck TBH. Actually, the 3rd Bayou - I've been considering making one into a Llanowar Wastes to allow you to play around Submerge with a preliminary Crop Rotation for it. Once the new fastlands come out, I think I will -4 fetchland +4 of those for awhile.

Krosan Grip - Abrupt Decay is better at everything this card does for this deck, and hits more cards besides. If you name a card that Krosan Grip hits that Decay can't that is realistically playable against our deck before it is combo time, we can discuss it.

[apple713]

Krosan Grip - Abrupt Decay is better at everything this card does for this deck, and hits more cards besides. If you name a card that Krosan Grip hits that Decay can't that is realistically playable against our deck before it is combo time, we can discuss it.

omniscience
Sneak Attack
Aluren
batter skull
inkmoth Nexus
helm of obedience

just off the top of my head.

i run 4 decay main and still play 3 grip in board. I must admit I haven't tinkered much with board since i made it but I made it at a time when omni was played a lot because dig was still in the format. If sneak and omni are not issues in your meta, then decays should be fine. HOWEVER, krosan grip is G instead of GB making it easier to cast for some manabases. Also, under moon, its easier to get access to 1 color instead of two. Do note that grip does not hit magus of the moon tho.

Additionally, there are times when split second does help more than just being uncountable. For example, when you have to target a sensei's divining top.

So as you can see there are some trade offs. I'm sure there are more but I'm completely fried right now.