Like I said, yes I do prefer Oblivion Build to a ramp strategy. I have yet to find a bad matchup for the Oblivion Build and it's performance has been nothing short of remarkable.Originally Posted by caprino
However, if I were to switch and opted to play a ramp deck, I would utilize an Eldrazi oriented ramp strategy that makes use of Eye of Ugin and Eldrazi Temple and Eldrazi based mana generation rather than putting so much weight on artifact mana.
This is how I would play it (untested, might need some slight tweaking to ensure a smooth curve)...
4 Eye of Ugin
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
3 Vesuva
2 City of Traitors
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Oblivion Sower
4 Conduit of Ruin
2 Kozilek's Channeler
1 Breaker of Armies
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Trinisphere
This way you don't have to devote a bunch of slots to artifact mana that end up being dead weight when you're in top deck mode and you won't auto lose to Null Rod. As you can see, I really wouldn't recommend cutting Reality Smasher or Mimics from the list. Otherwise, you give up too much of the deck's speed making it too slow to keep up with combo and burn decks. 1 ofs are the best way to go imo since you have both Eye of Ugin and Conduit of Ruin to tutor for them when needed.
nice list i test today....my meta is deth and taxes,ant,miracle,bug,infect...
tips on side?
do yuo prefer Breaker of Armies or ulamog crusher?
Last edited by caprino; 10-15-2016 at 08:26 AM.
Both are decent options but I think Breaker of Armies works better as a tutorable silver bullet against aggro/token swarm strategies.
Either way, both Crusher and Breaker are there to give you something to tutor up with Conduit of Ruin when you only have 6 mana (ie. one of your lands got wastelanded or there is a blood moon out or something). In those situations, Breaker does a better job of helping you stabilize by acting as a one-sided wrath of god. So I prefer it.
Yes definitely test the list out. I think it has potential and could be a serious competitor in the format with some tweaking to smoothen out the mana curve. But overall, I think it's a much more consistent and more resilient way to approach Eldrazi ramp than via artifact mana.
Artifact mana approaches tend to be swingy, either you have the nuts hands or you end up with hands chockful of mana and no threats, or chockfull of threats and not enough mana to cast any of them. The list I posted is specifically geared to avoid this happening and Conduit of Ruin is a key reason why (triples as a beater, mana accelerant and tutor for a big threat).
As for the side, I would probably play Dismember, Jitte, Leyline, Thorn, All is Dust, a single Duplicant and maybe some ratchet bombs in the sideboard, but gear the sideboard for what shows up in your meta.
duplicant vs mirror?
4 leyline of the void
3 all is dust
and? my meta is death and taxes.miracle,ant,infect,bug delver
A single Duplicant to tutor up with Eye vs Show and Tell and other Emrakul decks. For the remaining sideboard slots, I would probably play a couple of Thorn as another way to shut out combo decks and play either Jitte or Dismember or maybe even Warping Wail, Rachet Bomb or Spatial Contortion vs. D&T.
what do you think about it
4 leyline of the void
3 all is dust
2 thorn of Amethyst
2 warping wail
3 spatial contortion
1 duplicant
Looks good. I think Dismember might be a better option than Spatial Contortion unless you're gearing it vs. D&T primarily. I like it though.
Trying it out for a bit (didn't get a chance to actually play it so just going by goldfishing), this seems to offer a smoother curve...
I wish there was a better eldrazi mana dork just to make sure you reach 6 mana easily. Perhaps Palldium Myr is the best way to go. If not, I guess Grim Monolith is worth looking at like you suggested.
4 Eye of Ugin
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cloudpost
3 Glimmerpost
3 Vesuva
3 City of Traitors
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Oblivion Sower
4 Conduit of Ruin
1 Breaker of Armies
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Grim Monolith (or Endless One or Matter Reshaper or Palladium Myr or Kozilek's Channeler)
3 Trinisphere
I think it might be worth it to play this list instead.
Last edited by Captain Hammer; 10-16-2016 at 10:42 AM.
Interesting...do you win more game?
4 Kozilek's Channeler main deck is good?
Last edited by caprino; 10-16-2016 at 08:51 AM.
That's the one slot that I couldn't decide on. I ended up scrapping that approach and I am currently testing this variation on the oblivion build right now...
//Mana
4 Eye of Ugin
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Cloudpost
3 Glimmerpost
3 Vesuva
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
//Core
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Oblivion Sower
4 Conduit of Ruin
//Flex
1 Endless One
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Trinisphere
1 Dismember
1 Matter Reshaper
1 Breaker of Armies
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
It's very smooth so far, not sure if it's better than the traditional Oblivion Build.
The reason for all the 1 ofs is that I'm trying to figure out which cards end up outperforming and proving themselves to actually warrant slots in the deck.
Last edited by Captain Hammer; 10-16-2016 at 10:48 AM.
Palladium is good? Is no eldrazi and is small creature
it's decent. but not the best option i guess. I am now testing sower. i played it 3 times and had no hits all 3 times. That was pretty frustrating, because after the effect it is just a silly endbringer
Eldrazi stompy list: http://www.mtggoldfish.com/player/noloam
sideboard guide can be found on page 84
Would love some input on Phrexian Metamorph vs Duplicant. Which is the better option as a 1 of in the board?
Caprino, since you wanted a solid ramp build, play this list. It's very good, you can leave the sideboard the same as your old sideboard...
//Mana
4 Eye of Ugin
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Cloudpost
3 Glimmerpost
3 Vesuva
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
//Core
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Oblivion Sower
4 Conduit of Ruin
//Flex
4 Endless One
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Breaker of Armies
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
It's very smooth so far. Though I am tempted to replace Metamorph maindeck with Jitte or Trinisphere.
Last edited by Captain Hammer; 10-16-2016 at 02:07 PM.
won 2 eternal weekend byes with serum powder + eternal scourge list. Hindsight changes: I would up Urborg from 1 to 3 and play 3 sideboard Massacre in the current meta.
Any advice on how to beat the Eldrazi mirror, especially the ones running Matter Reshaper over Eternal Scourge? I'd like to have something to side in against them for the 4 chalice of the voids i'm siding out.
Last edited by bruizar; 10-17-2016 at 05:49 AM.
With Oblivion Sower play 3 Urborg.
You will have many fetchlands on your side and you can't gain any merit from them without Urborg
Since there are so many questions about the Sower build, Iīm giving you my impressions. Played about 100 matches online and about 40-50 matches in paper. Iīm absolutely convinced with the sower build. Itīs resilient, aggressive and by far the best list I played so far (and I tried everything: colorless and colored, W/UR/WR/UW)
My win percentage is 63%! Thats way more than I had with the other lists. First I played without Ulamog and only played 2 Urborg and 2 Jitte. Now Iīm on 3 Jittes, 3 Urborg, and Ulamog. Since then the deck is running so smoothly. Every card in the deck is needed! I tried different sideboards, different numbers of creatures, but I always ended up playing this list:
26 LANDS
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Eye of Ugin
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Wasteland
25 CREATURES
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Endless One
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Oblivion Sower
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 INSTANTS and SORC.
2 Dismember
7 OTHER SPELLS
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Umezawa's Jitte
SIDEBOARD
2 All Is Dust
1 Dismember
1 Endbringer
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Relic of Progenitus
4 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Warping Wail
Why this list?
1. I often read that Sower is weaker than Endbringer. Sower is so effective beacause a) itīs a 5/8 body => it blocks nearly every creature (KotR, Goyf, Smasher ...) b) itīs effect in combination with urborg and eye of ugin is amazing!
2. Ulamog: sower + opponents lands + urborg + eye makes Ulamog possible => about 20-25% of the games I get to cast Ulamog => and that is mostly an auto win. But I had to give it a chance. Just try Ulamog. Since I did, I never regreted it
3. why 3 Jittes? In my very first lists I played 1-2 Jittes and was never happy. So I put it into the SB. Iīm still wasnīt happy, so I cut it. So why would I play 3 Jittes. After I played 20-30 Matches I realized, that 3 Jittes is the perfect number. The first Jitte always gets handeled. But the second one normally stays. So you want to find 2 Jittes. an equipped Jitte is a hard board to stop. Also Matter Reshaper cycles himself into a Jitte more often.
4. why only 2 dismember? With Sower, smasher and Endless one most of the time you got the biggest dude on the board. so you dont have to be afraid. Flying creatures like delver have to be handeled by dismember or Jitte. I never felt like needing more dismembers or warping wails in the main board
5. mana Base: It was a long way to realize why this mana base is the best one for this deck. Urborg I already explained. only 3 wastelands because you need the mana for your fatties. I only waste if I really have to or when Iīm ahead on the board and dont need the mana anyways. I never was a fan of city of traitors and I always tended to play 2-3. But in this list 4 cities is your choice to be. It increases your chance for a turn 1 chalice and of course you want to cast your sower on turn 3. So even if lose your city sometimes, the deck is more resilient. the other lands are needed anyways. With this mana base you dont need cloudpost. I would say a turn 3 Sower is more difficult to realize with cloudpost. Because you need at least 2 cloudpost/vesuva to make it happen. 1 isnīt enough.
6. SB plans: I dont like Thorns but you need it. I played 3 but never cast it reliably. All is Dust is the only card Iīm not 100% sure. Sometimes you get to cast it. Then itīs amazing. Most of the time you dont. Warping wail is great against miracles/storm/show and tell and elves. Love it. Dismember and Endbringer for the mirror and other fattie decks (goyf/angler/KotR ...). Ratchet Bomb and Relique needs no explanation.
for everyone whoīs interested in this list. Just give it a try and play a couple of matches. I love this list, because itīs extremely strong and itīs fun to play. People just hate Oblivion Sower because you cant really handle it. Sower is not the card you kill your opponent with but itīs the card that makes it possible. :-)
Excellent results Josch and nice list. I'm glad you gave the Sower list a chance so that you can test in person how effective the card is.
I actually played a list very similar to yours before I tested incorporating the cloudpost manabase. Infact, the only difference between your list and what I was playing was that I played Phyrexian Revoker instead of a Jitte and played the 4th Wasteland instead of the 3rd Urborg. It's a very effective list, certainly stronger than other Eldrazi Aggro lists, but I think if you give Post Mana a chance, you'll agree that it's not the most effective list possible.
I know that on paper, the post manabase might look too slow or inconsistent. I assure though that in practice, it's just the opposite. Ive consistently found that post mana actually makes the deck much less vulnerable to wasteland. It also makes it more consistent, faster and greatly decreases the frequency of having to mulligan. I understand how all of this might sound counterintuitive to what you might expect. But I highly highly encourage you to play just a handful of games with the below list.
Don't make any changes to the following list, play this exact identical list below for atleast a handful of games and then feel free to dismiss this approach if you get any win percentage under 70%. Yes 70-75% is what I've been getting and I am certain you will get similar results if you try it. So like you yourself advocated, I highly recommend trying this identical list without ANY changes just a couple of games atleast. You can leave your sideboard as is. Any sideboard that has some combo hate in it will suffice.
//Mana
4 Eye of Ugin
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Cloudpost
3 Glimmerpost
3 Vesuva
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
//Core
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
//Flex
4 Endless One
4 Oblivion Sower
4 Conduit of Ruin
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Breaker of Armies
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
Do you have a recommended sideboard? I'm going to GP Providence this weekend and will be jamming Colorless Eldrazi but I'm interested in the O Sower list to mess around with afterwards
@captain hammer: thanks a lot for your thoughts. I really do like cloudpost/glimmerpost. Actually my very first build was 12 post mana base. The explosiveness of the mana curve is unbelievable.
But itīs hard to ignore some facts:
- 7 Lands that enter the battlefield tapped + 4 eye of ugin that dont produce mana => much less chances to cast chalice on turn 1 and TKS on turn 2
- every hand with cloudpost + eye of ugin + urborg or wasteland is a mulligan
- hands with city of traitors and copies of vesuva or cloudpost are a mulligan
- it feels like in the first 3 turns you are a bit slower, exept I got 2 cloudpost + sol land and the opponent doesnt have wasteland.
- hitting a cloudpost with wasteland is always a disaster, because if you - for example - have 2x cloudpost+ glimmerpost, the wastelands on cloudpost takes away 4 mana!!! thats really hard! The mana is not well divided. you got lands that produce 3-5 mana but only under certain circumstances. In my build the lands produce only 2 mana but under every circumstance
- you need 27 lands to be resilient enough => that means your topdecks are less efficient
I guess it depends a lot on your meta. Your list is very strong against eldrazi /miracles and decks where you profit from your explosive mana curve. A fair deck can hardly raise you. on the other hand can it be very difficult against decks like storm/Death n Taxes/ Show and tell/burn and decks with KotR that attack your mana base heavily.
Everything depends on your preferences. I think a good pilot will be successful with both lists. :-) so keep it up and let me hear your further impressions on the deck.
was going to try one of the oblivion builds tonight, until I realized I only own 2. hopefully I can grab 2 more at the store tonight.
my meta is loaded with daze, force etc. so I'm more inclined the try the non-post mana base with caverns, but if I can get together with my test group soon I will definitely try out the post base
Josch, the list has the exact same chance of a turn 1 chalice as the list you're playing. It plays the same number of Cities and Tombs as your list. It sounds like you're planning to mulligan a bunch of hands that I wouldn't. The hands you mentioned are mostly hands I generally keep and like I said, I have a 70% win percentage with that list. You'll see what I mean if you opt to take the list for a spin. Thank you for the feedback and congrats again on your performance and excellent list.
If AFTER trying it, you're left unhappy with the post manabase (which I think is very unlikely speaking from personal experience), I would still encourage you to play the same identical list with the only change being to the land configuration, by switching out the Post mana for Crystal Vein, Cavern of Souls, Grim Monolith and additional Urborg for example...
//Mana
3-4 Crystal Vein
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Eye of Ugin
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
2-3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
0-2 Grim Monolith
//Core
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
//Flex
4 Endless One
4 Oblivion Sower
4 Conduit of Ruin
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Breaker of Armies
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
You can try this version until you get your hands on the Post lands. I am confident this list would still handily outperform other Eldrazi Aggro builds.
Last edited by Captain Hammer; 10-17-2016 at 07:55 PM.
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