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Thread: [Deck] Imperial Painter

  1. #4241
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    Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

    Quote Originally Posted by Valleysdai View Post
    I'll be going to a legacy fnm tonight (I'll put a report up when I'm back) and am wondering what you guys think I can cut from my list for a sudden shock

    4 imperial recruiter (I only have 1 so have gamble, E. Tutor and a welder)
    4 painter's servant
    3 goblin welder
    2 simian spirit guide
    1 magus of the moon
    1 jaya ballard
    1 ethersworn canonist

    4 grindstone
    3 lotus petal
    2 Sensei's divining top
    1 ensnaring bridge

    4 blood moon

    1 nahiri, harbinger

    4 pyroblast
    3 red elemental blast
    3 enlightened tutor

    4 city of traitors (using 4 crystal vein)
    4 ancient tomb
    4 arid mesa (using 1 bloodstained)
    3 mountain
    2 plateau
    1 plains
    1 great furnace

    Side board

    1 trinisphere (using surgical extraction)
    1 spellskite
    1 sudden shock
    1 Kozilek's return
    1 ensnaring bridge
    1 duergar hedge-mage
    1 wear/tear
    1 rest in peace
    1 grafdigger's cage
    1 ethersworn canonist
    1 engineered explosives
    1 pithing needle
    1 chandra, torch of defiance
    2 fiery confluence
    Are the cards listed in parenthesis what you are actually running? If so I think i'd get rid of a cage, kozilek's return or wear/tear. Cage is kind of meh in general with how the metagame is and it can cause some awkward situations with welder since you're running gambles. I don't think a singleton wear/tear or return is going to do anything. I would actually consider playing a 2nd hedge-mage over the wear/tear. We don't play brainstorm so our only way to find them to dig through our deck via top.

    As general advice I think i'd play a 2nd gamble over another e-tutor. The card disadvantage that comes with playing 4 e-tutors is really going to hurt and with gambles you still have a chance of finding some of the 1 offs you're playing.

    I think that return is fine. In general I think that you want diversify the cmc of your removal because of the number of chalice decks and d&t running around. The devoid is really only relevant in the d&t matchup and when people randomly have cards like chill and absolute law in their board. Like I said in a previous post I think that most playable removal spells now are viable, you just have to figure out how you want to play the deck.

  2. #4242

    Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

    Quote Originally Posted by Morcrux View Post
    That's quite the sideboard!
    Most of it are valid options, except for wear/tear which isn't too useful in our list as it can't be fetched in any way. A Hedge-Mage is usually enough, eventually paired with an Engineered Explosives as I see you got too.

    I'm no big fan of Kozilek's Return in legacy as the devoid isn't of use and especially in our deck we can't utilize the eldrazi-trigger. Could be another Sudden Shock, maybe a Pyroclasm, or if your meta is high on DnT I'd a Sulfur Elemental or 3rd Fiery Confluence.
    I find that the double plains can be an issue wit hedge-mage when I need to get rid of an enchantment, also the triple mana option of wear/tear has been very useful against miracles.

    In regards to the Kozilek's return, I get a lift with one of the guys and he plays elves, the instant speed is what interests me because it can wipe most boards suddenly and put the opponent off.

    Quote Originally Posted by CptHaddock View Post
    As general advice I think i'd play a 2nd gamble over another e-tutor. The card disadvantage that comes with playing 4 e-tutors is really going to hurt and with gambles you still have a chance of finding some of the 1 offs you're playing.
    With the gamble I did have 2 but I played against burn where I had 2 in hand and each time I gambled for a painter to win the match it discarded them. I realised that the certainty of enlightened tutor outweighs the card disadvantage it provides, also it is instant speed.

  3. #4243
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    [Deck] Imperial Painter

    Actually, gamble is not any better with card advantage anyway since you have to discard a card. There is just a chance that you get the card you need in hand immediately rather than a draw later. If you went with multiple copies of gamble I would
    Definitely run a full play set of welders so that you can recur in whatever gets discarded. I don't think you need two Canonist.


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  4. #4244
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    Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

    Quote Originally Posted by Valleysdai View Post
    I find that the double plains can be an issue wit hedge-mage when I need to get rid of an enchantment, also the triple mana option of wear/tear has been very useful against miracles.

    In regards to the Kozilek's return, I get a lift with one of the guys and he plays elves, the instant speed is what interests me because it can wipe most boards suddenly and put the opponent off.
    The enchantment-part of Hedge-Mage is pretty much only relevant against miracles, and they'll leave your plateaus alone.

    For instant-speed wipe, I'd recommend Pyrokinesis, that one will always lock out elves while having mana to play out your own plan.

  5. #4245
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    Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

    Went to SCG Baltimore this weekend and did pretty meh. I did see that 2 painter players made day 2 with 1 being imperial. Was it one of you folks?

  6. #4246

    Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

    Yes, I hope to have a report up today after work.

    [Report]
    I went 9-6, losing my last round to Goryo's Vengeance for a 71st place finish in a 500+ person event, and just missing t64 and cashing.

    Going into this tournament I was not sure what to play. After a few rough patches with the deck, I put it down for a while and was playing miracles. That has been my go to deck for a while, and I was undecided as to play, to the point that I brought both with me to Baltimore. I made an 11pm decision on Friday to play painter, and looked through the past few pages for various ideas on builds, as well as referencing past experience with the deck. This is what I registered:

    3 Goblin Welder
    4 Painter's Servant
    4 Imperial Recruiter
    2 Simian Spirit Guide
    1 Jaya Ballard
    1 Magus of the Moon

    3 Enlightened Tutor
    4 Pyroblast
    2 REB

    4 Blood Moon

    4 Grindstone
    3 Sensei's Divining Top
    1 Engineered Explosives
    1 Ensnaring Bridge
    3 Lotus Petal
    1 LED

    4 Arid Mesa
    1 Scalding Tarn
    4 Mountain
    2 Plateau
    1 Great Furnace
    4 Ancient Tomb
    3 City of Traitors

    Sideboard:

    2 Fiery Confluence
    2 Sudden Shock
    2 Chandra Torch of Defiance
    1 Sulfur Elemental
    1 Nahiri the Harbinger
    1 Containment Priest
    1 Plains
    1 Ensnaring Bridge
    1 Ethersworn Canonist
    1 Tormod's Crypt
    1 Duergar Hedgemage
    1 Sphere of Law

    The Sideboard was the part I had the least amount of time to prepare. I wanted to find a spot for phyrexian revoker in the 75, but ultimately could not. Last minute changes were Priest for RIP, Shocks instead of bolts, and Plains over Sulfur Elemental #2.

    Rd 1: Chris on R/B Reanimator/Goryo's Vengeance
    G1: We both mulled to 6, he was on the play. I didn't know what he was on but he looted and discarded a griselbrand. I get a fast combo.
    G2: Brought in Crypt, Priest and Bridge. He mulled to 6. He has a slow hand, and I get a fast moon followed by a bridge. I chip in damage until I can assemble the combo.
    1-0

    Rd 2: Jaime on Miracles
    G1: I was on the play. T1 Moon resolves, to which he played Island, top. Another fast combo kill.
    G2: I sided out some acceleration, very similar to Jack's suggestion, brought in the Walker Package, Plains, shocks, confluences and elemental. Another fast combo kill
    2-0

    Rd 3: Jacob on U/B Reanimator
    G1: I was on the play, he had a fast Griselbrand and I couldn't assemble the combo fast enough.
    G2: Same siding as above. Game 2 was more of a grind fest, with Jaya getting exhumed, but I died to Griselbrand + Tidespout beats.
    2-1

    Rd 4: Dan on 4c Delver
    G1: I was on the play, drop a T1 Moon, and he conceded without ever a land or spell. I had no idea what he was on, guessed it was Eldrazi.
    G2: Sided in Confluence, Bridge, Hedgemage. He got a deathrite out, but I locked him under moon + bridge, killed his deathrite and he was dead.
    3-1

    Rd 5: Todd on R/B Reanimator
    G1: I was on the play, and mulled to 5. He pregamed 2 Chancellor of the annex. I played an ancient tomb and passed. He T1d a griselbrand into unmask. Conceded.
    G2: Siding as previously. Again died to a fast griselbrand + Iona before I could combo.
    3-2

    Rd 6: Michael on Eldrazi
    G1: He was on the play. He T2d a Thought-knot. I drew Magus to shut his mana down, followed by painter + blast. Combo kill.
    G2: Same siding as Rd 4. He kept a slow hand after a mull to 5 and I combo without facing any pressure.
    4-2

    Rd 7: Mark on Punishing Maverick/Naya Knight
    G1: He was on the play, fetched Forest/Plateau and dropped Pridemage. I dropped Moon. We went through a dance of him attacking and then blowing up the moon and playing another Pridemage. The 3rd Moon stuck and I was able to take enough hits before comboing.
    G2: Same siding as Rd 4, with addition of Crypt for Knight of the Reliquary. I died to Batterskull beats.
    G3: On the play, I dropped a T1 Moon and that was pretty much it.
    5-2

    Rd 8: Eetai on Death & Taxes
    G1: He was on the play. I take chip damage until I can force the combo to stick and combo out. Moon shut down karakas for any managara/thalia tricks.
    G2: Sideboard similar to the Miracles matchup, also bring in Hedgemage, Priest and Bridge. Again take chip damage and eventually combo.
    6-2

    Rd 9: Connor on Punishing Jund
    G1: He was on the play and I died to a flurry of creatures.
    G2: Sideboard similar to Rd 8 but did not bring in Nahiri. I was on the play and combo kill. He didn't understand the combo G1, having only seen the grindstone.
    G3: He adjusted his sideboard plan. This was a very long affair, I sat behind a bridge and multiple moons, he had bob + library. I was not able to find the confluences for his nullrod/needle or Chandras before I died to 2x Bolt + PFire + Deathrite.
    6-3

    Rd 10: Cassidy on Merfolk
    G1: I was on the play and she mulled. T1 Moon was met by an Island I took a few beats before dropping a bridge. She conceded to the bridge. Moon shut off cavern and mutavault.
    G2: Sided in confluences, shocks, Hedgemage. I mulled to 6, she mulled to 4. She had kept a no Island hand, her blue vial got blasted, chalice got hedgemaged, and I comboed without too much pressure.
    7-3

    Rd 11: Keith on Infect
    G1: He was on the play. He got an early hierarch, I got a fast Moon. I eventually block his hierarch with a painter, he pumped, and I blasted in response. On to G2:
    G2: Side in Shocks, confluences. Hierarch led to blighted agent which resolves through a REB. Moon shut down any further shenanigans, I went up to 6 poison, have a painter out, and four mana with land in hand. Top deck stone, resolve stone, play land and grind for the win.
    8-3

    Rd 12: Alex on Death and Taxes
    G1: I mulled to 6 and get ground out by the value after he blinks my bridge twice with two flickerwisps.
    G2: Same siding as above. Nahiri took out a problematic aether vial, Chandra kept the board stable and I beat down. He dies to Chandra's exile.
    G3. He was on the play, I can't find enough mana for his thalia + pony and die before being able to get both combo pieces online or before finding a bridge.
    8-4

    Rd 13: Caleb on Storm.
    G1: He was on the play. I die on T2.
    G2: Side in Ethersworn and Crypt. He mulled to 6 and kept. I recruitered for ethersworn and it stuck. I beat down until I can combo.
    G3. We both mull. I blasted a brainstorm and he didn't have much follow up. Beat down for the win.
    9-4

    Rd 14: Justin on U/R Delver
    G1: He was on the play. T1 Delver dealt a lot of damage, it was blasted, but snapcasters did the rest of the damage.
    G2: Similar siding to Eldrazi. He had an early lavamancer, and I was never able to develop my mana to do anything effective.
    9-5

    Rd 15: Kyle on R/B Reanimator/Goryo's Vengeance [Turns out, this was the same list as Rd 1]
    G1: I was on the play and mull to 6. I got a turn, followed by a T1 hasty griselbrand + borborygmos enraged and died to damage + lands.
    G2: Siding same as Rd 1. He mulled to 5. I powered out a bridge and combo as quick as possible.
    G3: I keep a sketchy hand that has a T2 bridge. I never got a turn, as I died to hasty griselbrand + borborygmos enraged and damage + lands to the dome.
    9-6 (final)

    Games like the reanimator matchups were why I had originally put the deck down, after messing around with a blue splash that sideboarded into sneak and omnishow. It's possible that they might have gone differently if I had faerie macabre instead of priest to recruiter for. The free aspect of macabre is very appealing. In the reanimator matchups I also missed having revoker to make the demon just a big flying idiot. I felt like Jack's advice of viewing the storm matchup as a race is very well taken and definitely helped in that match. Moons were great all day, and I was never sad to see Magus, including his single-handedly turning around the Eldrazi matchup.

    Additionally, its possible the shocks should have been bolts, which would have come in against reanimator. I do like the split second for mentor, but I never saw the monks. Additionally, fiery confluences were great all day.

    My notes aren't that great, so this is mostly done from memory, and it was a very long weekend.
    Last edited by waz; 11-07-2016 at 10:41 PM.

  7. #4247
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    Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

    A weekend of paint for me. I started out playing the Legacy Challenge online. Was only middling around when I decided to just drop even though I probably could have gotten entry back. I was expecting a lot of graveyard combo and eldrazi so I kind of switched up the list at the last second to account for that, putting a second bridge main over a top, adding a second crypt to the board, and swapping the 3rd bolt for the 3rd pyroclasm. The results were only meh. I lost a super tight game 3 to miracles in round 1 where he had only one card left on turn 4 or something, having fow'd and then swordsing my first painter, and had the last swords to kill my second painter. died to mentor swarm next turn. Sad part is that I had two blasts in my hand, just needed to draw any mana source on my turn and didnt. Went for it and died. Beat dredge pretty easily round 2, lost to the four color chalice loam deck in 3 games, beat turbo depths, and then lost to b/r reanimator. Pretty frustrating as that deck seems quick as shit and is way harder than regular u/b reanimator.

    Anyways so that was pretty annoying and I debated not playing a paper even today as I don't even have the 2nd Nahiri or any new chandras in paper yet. I decided to go anyways and went back to my normal maindeck (listed below). I'm extremely sold on it. The overall redundancy in combo and recursion and speed makes it really easy to go under a lot of decks in game 1, while having just enough extra 1-ofs like bridge, ee, and jaya to at least have a shot at the long game if it (hopefully not) gets that far. Then you can slow down the deck in whatever direction you need to post-board to deal with the different angles of hate you expect to see.

    4 Ancient Tomb
    3 City of Traitors
    2 Plateau
    1 Great Furnace
    2 wooded foothills
    3 bloodstained mire
    4 Mountain

    4 Imperial Recruiter
    4 Painter's Servant
    3 Goblin Welder
    2 Simian Spirit Guide
    1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage

    4 Blood Moon
    4 Grindstone
    3 Sensei's Divining Top
    3 Lotus Petal
    1 Lion's Eye Diamond
    1 Ensnaring Bridge
    1 Engineered Explosives

    4 Pyroblast
    3 Red Elemental Blast
    3 enlightened tutor


    For the board, that's where things got a little more interesting since I didn't have 3 of the walkers that I have been running online. I did throw in a 2nd crypt for the same reasons listed above, as well as bringing back magus since its probably the highest impact rec target for certain matchups, and added in 1 ajani v. I ended up at this:

    3 bolt
    2 pyroclasm
    2 sulfur elemental
    2 Tormod's Crypt
    1 Ethersworn Canonist
    1 Duergar Hedge-mage
    1 Ensnaring Bridge
    1 Ajani V
    1 Nahiri
    1 Magus

    the 5-0 was burn, bant deathblade, grixis (4c) delver, rg lands, rug lands double draw then beat dnt to get the t4 split. I was on the fence about led after the challenge, but it facilitated a lot of early kills. magus won a game vs lands and I feel more comfortable when he's in the 75, but I'm not sure how much he helps our worse matchups. He obviously makes our good matchups much better like eldrazi and bug.

    Another thought crossed my mind when I brought in ajani for g3 vs dnt and made me think of the usual board I had been running with 4 walkers. Yes, I agree that miracles is much better with all of them, but how many other matchups are we bringing in 4 planeswalkers? At least for me not too many. I realized that I was only ever really bringing in 1 chandra and very rarely both.. Having one though as a late game bomb to top through the deck for seems a lot better and frees up a precious sideboard slot. I think two nahiri is still very good for the digging ability and for the game vs counterbalance, and she helps dig for the 1 chandra as well. This is me just rambling mainly, it just felt like nahiri does more of what we want faster. Not entirely sure where that would leave my board, probably something like:

    3 bolt
    2 pyroclasm
    2 sulfur elemental
    2 Nahiri
    1 chandra
    1 tormod's crypt
    1 hedge mage
    1 canonist
    1 bridge
    X-Spot

    Last spot probably meta dependent? (magus, crypt, 8 blast, priest, whatever) I still don't think any taxing effect (thorn, 3sphere) deserves a spot as combo has enough to deal with in miracles, delver, dnt, and eldrazi. Sulfur Elementals have been amazing, and I am regularly using every board piece (save 2nd chandra), which I think is a good sign for the current build.

    Thoughts as always appreciated following my random too-long musings haha
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  8. #4248
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    Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

    Quote Originally Posted by Kap'n Cook View Post
    A weekend of paint for me. I started out playing the Legacy Challenge online. Was only middling around when I decided to just drop even though I probably could have gotten entry back. I was expecting a lot of graveyard combo and eldrazi so I kind of switched up the list at the last second to account for that, putting a second bridge main over a top, adding a second crypt to the board, and swapping the 3rd bolt for the 3rd pyroclasm. The results were only meh. I lost a super tight game 3 to miracles in round 1 where he had only one card left on turn 4 or something, having fow'd and then swordsing my first painter, and had the last swords to kill my second painter. died to mentor swarm next turn. Sad part is that I had two blasts in my hand, just needed to draw any mana source on my turn and didnt. Went for it and died. Beat dredge pretty easily round 2, lost to the four color chalice loam deck in 3 games, beat turbo depths, and then lost to b/r reanimator. Pretty frustrating as that deck seems quick as shit and is way harder than regular u/b reanimator.

    Anyways so that was pretty annoying and I debated not playing a paper even today as I don't even have the 2nd Nahiri or any new chandras in paper yet. I decided to go anyways and went back to my normal maindeck (listed below). I'm extremely sold on it. The overall redundancy in combo and recursion and speed makes it really easy to go under a lot of decks in game 1, while having just enough extra 1-ofs like bridge, ee, and jaya to at least have a shot at the long game if it (hopefully not) gets that far. Then you can slow down the deck in whatever direction you need to post-board to deal with the different angles of hate you expect to see.

    4 Ancient Tomb
    3 City of Traitors
    2 Plateau
    1 Great Furnace
    2 wooded foothills
    3 bloodstained mire
    4 Mountain

    4 Imperial Recruiter
    4 Painter's Servant
    3 Goblin Welder
    2 Simian Spirit Guide
    1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage

    4 Blood Moon
    4 Grindstone
    3 Sensei's Divining Top
    3 Lotus Petal
    1 Lion's Eye Diamond
    1 Ensnaring Bridge
    1 Engineered Explosives

    4 Pyroblast
    3 Red Elemental Blast
    3 enlightened tutor


    For the board, that's where things got a little more interesting since I didn't have 3 of the walkers that I have been running online. I did throw in a 2nd crypt for the same reasons listed above, as well as bringing back magus since its probably the highest impact rec target for certain matchups, and added in 1 ajani v. I ended up at this:

    3 bolt
    2 pyroclasm
    2 sulfur elemental
    2 Tormod's Crypt
    1 Ethersworn Canonist
    1 Duergar Hedge-mage
    1 Ensnaring Bridge
    1 Ajani V
    1 Nahiri
    1 Magus

    the 5-0 was burn, bant deathblade, grixis (4c) delver, rg lands, rug lands double draw then beat dnt to get the t4 split. I was on the fence about led after the challenge, but it facilitated a lot of early kills. magus won a game vs lands and I feel more comfortable when he's in the 75, but I'm not sure how much he helps our worse matchups. He obviously makes our good matchups much better like eldrazi and bug.

    Another thought crossed my mind when I brought in ajani for g3 vs dnt and made me think of the usual board I had been running with 4 walkers. Yes, I agree that miracles is much better with all of them, but how many other matchups are we bringing in 4 planeswalkers? At least for me not too many. I realized that I was only ever really bringing in 1 chandra and very rarely both.. Having one though as a late game bomb to top through the deck for seems a lot better and frees up a precious sideboard slot. I think two nahiri is still very good for the digging ability and for the game vs counterbalance, and she helps dig for the 1 chandra as well. This is me just rambling mainly, it just felt like nahiri does more of what we want faster. Not entirely sure where that would leave my board, probably something like:

    3 bolt
    2 pyroclasm
    2 sulfur elemental
    2 Nahiri
    1 chandra
    1 tormod's crypt
    1 hedge mage
    1 canonist
    1 bridge
    X-Spot

    Last spot probably meta dependent? (magus, crypt, 8 blast, priest, whatever) I still don't think any taxing effect (thorn, 3sphere) deserves a spot as combo has enough to deal with in miracles, delver, dnt, and eldrazi. Sulfur Elementals have been amazing, and I am regularly using every board piece (save 2nd chandra), which I think is a good sign for the current build.

    Thoughts as always appreciated following my random too-long musings haha
    In the Reanimator match up, how do you play the Crypts? I tried them out, but it seemed like everytime I did they just played the Needle they brought in for Grindstone and comboed out that turn. Do I just get bad beats when playing the Crypts or is there another way to "correctly" playing them other than rofl-slamming it T1?

  9. #4249
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    Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

    Yeah man, I absolutely hate that BR Reanimator matchup as well. That deck reminds me more of Tin-fins. I've been T1'd vs that deck more than any other recently. I think the benefit of crypt is that you can drop it turn 1 and at least make them find a needle so you get a couple more turns. If it gets really popular I think we will have to consider cards like surgical or faerie macabre. As with all graveyard decks, it's usually a good idea to mix up your hate. I am playing one crypt and one RiP myself.

    Its interesting that you've liked sulfur elementals so much. I tried them and didn't like them at all. Granted, I didn't give them much of a chance. I also have to admit I've actually really liked the new Chandra. I'm still playing two Nahiri in my board but The fact that Chandra's ultimate is gaming winning on its own is a big plus. I think a 1/2 split is right.

    Did anyone see anything from the new commander decks that could be good?


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  10. #4250
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    Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

    Anyone going to the invitational/legacy classic in Atlanta?


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  11. #4251
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    Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

    After being onthe ur train, I've been trying out the list from a few pages back that went 5-0 with 3 Chandra main in prep for gp louisville. Its been pretty good to me so far but I haven't got many games in. She's been great every time I cast her but all my opponents have been on slow decks. Worried about having her main against delver. Also felt really weird when I wanted to recruiter for revoker or jaya and couldn't. Likely taking it to an event this weekend. We'll see how it goes.

    Also a while ago there was talk of a br build with k command and entomb. I'm super high on k command right now. Think that list might be worth trying to figure out

  12. #4252
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    [Deck] Imperial Painter

    Quote Originally Posted by Mapson View Post
    After being onthe ur train, I've been trying out the list from a few pages back that went 5-0 with 3 Chandra main in prep for gp louisville. Its been pretty good to me so far but I haven't got many games in. She's been great every time I cast her but all my opponents have been on slow decks. Worried about having her main against delver. Also felt really weird when I wanted to recruiter for revoker or jaya and couldn't. Likely taking it to an event this weekend. We'll see how it goes.

    Also a while ago there was talk of a br build with k command and entomb. I'm super high on k command right now. Think that list might be worth trying to figure out
    I played a three color R/B/W list for quite awhile just so I could play K.command in the main along with a few black splashes in the board (engineered plague, etc). LOVED k.command but it's hard to play three colors with blood moon. Also tried a b/r list with k.command, entomb and 4x welder and it was so-so. Entomb feels really bad when you don't have a welder out. But it was fun to play some miser cards like wurmcoil engine but overall it felt very gimmicky.

    As for the list you just played, are you playing the 3 bridge list? If so, do you think it was the bridges or the Chandra that helped the most. Were you winning with Chandra ultimate?


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  13. #4253
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    Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

    We're able to splash a 3rd color if the meta really calls for it, like when some of us had Slaughter Games in the sb against Omnitell before Dig ban. Up a petal and add a Badlands and you're pretty much safe to get through that one bullet.

    Kolaghan's Command and entomb is another story tho, those needs a bit more build-around and further accessability of black in the manabase. Could work in a 4 Welder list splashing black instead of white, but it would become another version of the deck.

    Imo Enligthened Tutor is the better fit for our current gameplan.
    Last edited by Morcrux; 11-26-2016 at 08:37 AM.

  14. #4254

    Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

    Quote Originally Posted by Mapson View Post
    After being onthe ur train, I've been trying out the list from a few pages back that went 5-0 with 3 Chandra main in prep for gp louisville. Its been pretty good to me so far but I haven't got many games in. She's been great every time I cast her but all my opponents have been on slow decks. Worried about having her main against delver. Also felt really weird when I wanted to recruiter for revoker or jaya and couldn't. Likely taking it to an event this weekend. We'll see how it goes.

    Also a while ago there was talk of a br build with k command and entomb. I'm super high on k command right now. Think that list might be worth trying to figure out
    I have been testing 3-4 Chandra main and 2 Koth in the SB, and my Miracles MU is pretty positive now. Not having access to Revoker is suspect. Not having Jaya Ballard is a little suspect (currently not playing her with 4 Chandras MD). Chandra is fine vs. Delver. Even if you -3 to kill the Delver and she eats a Bolt, that's still a 2-for-1. Ideally, if you are playing a PW heavy list, you should be playing 3 Ensnaring Bridges main and be putting your opponent under bridge lock, which is conveniently made easier to Chandra's +1 RR. Chandra ToD is house. Love that card. Still playing mono-red though, so my mana base is a little more stable.

  15. #4255
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    Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

    I went to an event yesterday. it was a pretty frustrating five rounds but the people were cool so that's a plus.

    So this was the list I took:


    3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance

    2 Goblin Welder
    4 Imperial Recruiter
    1 Magus of the Moon
    4 Painter's Servant
    2 Simian Spirit Guide

    2 Enlightened Tutor
    4 Pyroblast
    2 Red Elemental Blast

    3 Ensnaring Bridge
    4 Grindstone
    2 Lotus Petal
    4 Sensei's Divining Top

    4 Blood Moon

    4 Ancient Tomb
    2 Bloodstained Mire
    3 City of Traitors
    1 Great Furnace
    4 Mountain
    2 Plateau
    3 Wooded Foothills

    Rd 1 played my friend on elves.
    He took both games. He had a pretty slow start in game 2 and I thought firebolt, and canonist might be enough to hold him back for a while but I never found a top to filter draws or a k return and just drew a lot of garbage while he slowly killed me with shaman of the pack. I have a tendency to beat him in our test games but lose anytime I play sanctioned magic against him
    0-1

    Rd2 - Pox
    Start with a gameloss because apparently I forgot to write the instants on my list. So that was tilting. His list was pretty interesting, it was different than the typical mono b pox lists. I got g2 through the combo while he was pretty low on life. He saw some lilis but they were too slow. He also revealed his win con was helm leyline combo so I boarded accordingly. Game 3 I mulligan two 1 landers and keep a 5. He sinkholed my second land and it was hard to continue, playing draw go for 3 or 4 turns. Turns out my seven would have ended up with a turn 2 chandra which probably would have been good enough. wish I had written down the hand to see what you all would have done. I played sloppy this game. I didn't pyroblast a fabricate, and i pyroblasted a tutor rather than just pyroblasting the helm he had in play in response to him playing a leyline. He eventually cast doomsday and I died. I might have boarded wrong, I saw bloodstained mires and a bayou g1. the bayou appeared to be only for drop of honey. It's possible I should have kept the moons in to turn off abrupt decays though, I also wasn't expecting blue cards. I really think I could have won if I just played tighter and wasn't tilted from the game loss though.
    0-2

    rd3 - lands
    G1 Opponent was able to get a basic forest, loam, and molten vortex through my blood moon so that was annoying to deal with but through some careful sequencing I was able to blow up the vortex and it was all done. g2 blood moon was enough.
    1-2 (finally on the board)


    rd4 - belcher
    I died on t1 both games.
    1-3

    rd 5 - Bug Nicfit
    G1 I had the t2 kill, he had an abrupt decay for painter and md surgical. That was tilting, so then I blood mooned him, he never saw a second basic, and chandra killed him. G2 went about the same


    So we ended with a pretty disappointing record, I always feel good playing against decks that are sizable chunks of the meta, but this event only served to reinforce how much I hate playing against the outliers (specifically the non blue ones. Chandra was pretty consistently good. My sanctioned record with this list right now is 5-4 though which isn't very thrilling, though it's a small sample size and at the gp, starting with two byes means I'm less likely to see decks like belcher or weird pox incarnations I've never faced. As much as I like playing this deck I have a strong feeling I'm going to end up back on ur, but we'll see. a lot of playing to be done, and I have to grixis some

  16. #4256
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    Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

    Mono red painter just went undefeated day 1 at GP Chiba and finished in 15th place 12-2-1

    Planeswalker (4)
    4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance

    Creature (13)
    2 Goblin Welder
    4 Painter’s Servant
    1 Phyrexian Revoker
    1 Spellskite
    4 Imperial Recruiter
    4 Simian Spirit Guide
    1 Magus of the Moon

    Instant (6)
    4 Pyroblast
    2 Red Elemental Blast

    Artifact (10)
    1 Great Furnace
    3 Grindstone
    3 Sensei's Divining Top
    3 Ensnaring Bridge

    Enchantment (4)
    4 Blood Moon

    Land (19)
    8 Mountain
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 City of Traitors
    3 Scalding Tarn


    Sideboard (15)
    1 Phyrexian Revoker
    1 Red Elemental Blast
    2 Relic of Progenitus
    1 Grafdigger's Cage
    1 Ratchet Bomb
    2 Sulfur Elemental
    1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
    1 Manic Vandal
    1 Fiery Confluence
    1 From the Ashes
    1 Koth of the Hammer
    2 Pyrokinesis

  17. #4257

    Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

    I really like the list. I am playing a very similar list. He's playing only three Grindstones, which can seem a bit weird at first, but I think he is emphasizing the control, anemic beatdown, and burn aspect of Painter over the combo, which I appreciate. Grindstone is one of those cards I want to draw into once I establish control anyways.

    From the Ashes is pretty sweet tech.

  18. #4258
    Member
    Morcrux's Avatar
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    Oslo, Norway
    Posts

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    Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

    I'd cut Spellskite for 4th Grindstone, but otherwise the mainboard seems pretty sweet. Can't imagine any fair deck got chance against Bridge + Chandra.

    The sideboard is weird tho. Without Tutors and with less accel this version is less likely to race combo game 1 so sideboard should've been more tuned for that, and I don't see reason for more walkers and bombs when fair games are well covered from main.

  19. #4259

    Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

    Quote Originally Posted by Mapson View Post
    Mono red painter just went undefeated day 1 at GP Chiba and finished in 15th place 12-2-1

    Planeswalker (4)
    4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance

    Creature (13)
    2 Goblin Welder
    4 Painter’s Servant
    1 Phyrexian Revoker
    1 Spellskite
    4 Imperial Recruiter
    4 Simian Spirit Guide
    1 Magus of the Moon

    Instant (6)
    4 Pyroblast
    2 Red Elemental Blast

    Artifact (10)
    1 Great Furnace
    3 Grindstone
    3 Sensei's Divining Top
    3 Ensnaring Bridge

    Enchantment (4)
    4 Blood Moon

    Land (19)
    8 Mountain
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 City of Traitors
    3 Scalding Tarn


    Sideboard (15)
    1 Phyrexian Revoker
    1 Red Elemental Blast
    2 Relic of Progenitus
    1 Grafdigger's Cage
    1 Ratchet Bomb
    2 Sulfur Elemental
    1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
    1 Manic Vandal
    1 Fiery Confluence
    1 From the Ashes
    1 Koth of the Hammer
    2 Pyrokinesis
    So there is no From the Ashes in the sideboard it's a 4th Ensnaring Bridge.
    Last edited by Milo687; 12-01-2016 at 01:44 AM.

  20. #4260
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    drude1's Avatar
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    Minneapolis, MN
    Posts

    670

    Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter

    Hey all.
    So first off, this might get a little long and I apologize in advance.

    I've been playing around with the Chandra plus bridge build trying to incorporate it into the shortcake list and so far the main is looking something like this:

    / Lands
    4 Arid Mesa
    1 Great Furnace
    3 City of Traitors
    2 Plateau
    4 Ancient Tomb
    4 Mountain
    1 Plains

    // Creatures
    4 Painter's Servant
    3 Imperial Recruiter
    3 Goblin Welder
    2 Simian Spirit Guide

    // Spells
    4 Grindstone
    4 Pyroblast
    4 Blood Moon
    3 Ensnaring Bridge
    3 Enlightened Tutor
    2 Red Elemental Blast
    3 Lotus Petal
    3 Sensei's Divining Top
    2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
    1 Lion's Eye Diamond

    I know there are only two Chandra but I don't want to be overly reliant on them and, as you can probably tell by the the 3 x tutor and the LED, I'm still going for fast combo first and rely on slowing things down with bridge and Chandra only if I have to. The list feels pretty bare bones and as is my only hope of beating fast combo is being faster. I just pulled Canonist out of the main to make room for the second Chandra but I may try to work her or a revoker back in to slow down Storm a little. Not sure what I would cut...either the LED, a welder, or 3rd tutor. But all choices make me sad.

    What I am really struggling with right now is the SB. I really want to concentrate on the meta and as I see it, it's mostly Miracles, D&T, delver variants, Eldrazi and some fast combo (storm, Reanimator, show and tell, maybe some belcher, etc). Elves is always out there as well. So the main deck build of this list is very strong against Eldrazi and as good as it's going to get against delver and Miracles. I feel that this list is pretty weak to fast combo and I definitely want to improve my MU against D&T. Regarding combo more specifically, I want to consider playing a card against turn 1-2 decks (belcher, storm, reanimator including BR). I think my only two options here are surgical or mindbreak trap. Surgical is trash against belcher but pretty good against storm and very good against reanimator. Whereas probably the opposite is true of mindbreak trap. The trap is probably stronger against storm than surgical.

    As for D&T, there is obviously sulfur elemental, which has splash affect against Miracles. There is also other removal (I personally like sudden shock). So, my SB starts to look like this:

    2 x sulfur elemental
    2 x mindbreak/surgical
    3 x sudden shock
    2 x fiery confluence (I still really like this card)
    1 x Ethersworn Canonist (if I don't move it to the main. If I did, it would probably be for the 3rd tutor and put the tutor here)

    That leaves 5 slots. I think I need a crypt, magus and EE for sure.
    1 x tormod's crypt
    1 x Magus of the Moon
    1 x e.explosives.

    Now I only have two spots left and still haven't included these cards:
    Rest in Peace, Sphere of Law, Revoker, Nahiri, hedge-mage, Jaya, 3-sphere and several others. If I played the surgicals then I don't really need RiP. I also feel like 3-sphere isn't necessary as I will probably always search for Canonist against storm. It is ok against Miracles and burn though. Some sort of artifact/enchantment removal seems relevant so either hedge-mage or Jaya. I lean towards Hedge-mage. Jaya can do more if she gets online but she is slow and you typically have to have painter in play for her to work. I have found Sphere of Law to be the best tech against burn and is ok against goblins. I also miss Nahiri against Miracles but I only have so much room.

    So, now my SB is looking like this:

    // Sideboard
    SB: 1 Ethersworn Canonist
    SB: 1 Sphere of Law
    SB: 1 Magus of the Moon
    SB: 1 Engineered Explosives
    SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt
    SB: 2 Fiery Confluence
    SB: 3 Sudden Shock
    SB: 1 Duergar Hedge-Mage
    SB: 2 Sulfur Elemental
    SB: 2 Mindbreak Trap/surgical

    So, a few questions for you all...
    1. Surgical vs Mindbreak? Seems surgical is the way to go as it covers the BR reanimator deck much better and it is also good against Loam decks. I'm just not 100% as Mindbreak is much better against belcher and storm

    2. For people who have played with Sulfur Elemental a lot? Is it really worth it? I played with it a little bit online and thought it was only OK against Miracles and you just don't see D&T online much. I see a lot of D&T on paper though. Is two the right number? Would one be enough?

    3. Could I go down one tutor entirely to fit in the Canonist? I also really miss the 7th blast and would like to see that come back as well.

    Any other glaring omissions? This is in preparation for the Louisville Legacy GP so we are talking about paper magic and I want to think about that meta. I would also consider cutting a welder but it's really nice having multiples when you are more reliant on cards like ensnaring bridge. Looking for any help possible. thanks.

    p.s. my favorite new thing to do with this deck now is ultimate Chandra and then chain tops...TAKE THAT MIRACLES!!

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