[Deck] T.E.S. - The EPIC Storm

[TswizzleFOshizzle]

I've been trying to learn Miracles and have had some trouble beating ANT, but TES seems really easy. Do you guys think I need to test against a more competent pilot, or is TES generally not as good as ANT against the top tier decks? Thanks

Have you been getting blown out by Daze out of the new ANT decks?

[Bryant Cook]

New article, check it out:
http://www.theepicstorm.com/time-mistakes/

[Bryant Cook]

http://www.theepicstorm.com/where-you-want-to-be/

Where you want to be as a storm pilot.

[Lemnear]

With all respect, but according to the parameters you choose, the best storm.dec in the current metagame is Belcher.

It has an even higher chance to combo off turn 1 if you ignore all possible chances of counterspells per sé. Storms current problems root on fighting back against hate dropped and especially considering games on the draw. If you lose the diceroll against any of these decks, the chance of winning the match is marginal atm.

[Bryant Cook]

Yes, go play Belcher.

You're always taking words and bending them elsewhere. I also talk about being resilient against Miracles, why wasn't that mentioned?

[Whitefaces]

Yes, go play Belcher.

You're always taking words and bending them elsewhere. I also talk about being resilient against Miracles, why wasn't that mentioned?

But don't you understand Legacy is black and white? It's so clear!

[Lemnear]

I also talk about being resilient against Miracles, why wasn't that mentioned?

Why wasn't Delver and its variants mentioned?

[Bryant Cook]

Why wasn't Delver and its variants mentioned?

Nice strawman argument.

[Lemnear]

Nice strawman argument.

You wrote an article of how "TES is the best storm deck in the format" because it can combo before Chalice/Counterbalance/Thalia come down and hope no one notices that those combined do not even make 50% of the format.

The article asks "where you want to be" and that question can't be answered by just looking at less than 30% of the metagame and pretend the rest just doesn't matter for building a deck and sideboard. Neither is "win the diceroll and hope you have T1 combo hands every game" a satisfying answer to that question, because if it were, everyone would indeed play Belcher and call it a day. We all know that the chance to win turn 1 with this deck isn't even 20% (with a hand of 7 cards), so making that the leading argument doesn't convince me at all that TES is a good choice in the current metagame and the best option for storm across the WHOLE metagame. The fact that most Delver shells are now Grixis isn't even worth mention? Neither the further decline of traditional "good" matchups is? The analysis seems incomplete.

[Bryant Cook]

You wrote an article of how "TES is the best storm deck in the format" because it can combo before Chalice/Counterbalance/Thalia come down and hope no one notices that those combined do not even make 50% of the format.

The article asks "where you want to be" and that question can't be answered by just looking at less than 30% of the metagame and pretend the rest just doesn't matter for building a deck and sideboard. Neither is "win the diceroll and hope you have T1 combo hands every game" a satisfying answer to that question, because if it were, everyone would indeed play Belcher and call it a day. We all know that the chance to win turn 1 with this deck isn't even 20% (with a hand of 7 cards), so making that the leading argument doesn't convince me at all that TES is a good choice in the current metagame and the best option for storm across the WHOLE metagame. The fact that most Delver shells are now Grixis isn't even worth mention? Neither the further decline of traditional "good" matchups is? The analysis seems incomplete.

No three decks make up 50% of the format. Legacy is too diverse.

The solution isn't "win the die roll" or "turn 1 them every game" find where I said this, please. The deck is built to be fast yet have a decent mid-to-late game, which is the point of the article. You're welcome to disagree, I don't really care since earlier today you were preaching about Thorn & Dread of Night. Your knowledge on the format is out of date, which makes me think less of your opinions.

As for Grixis Delver, the plan for Delver variants did not change, therefor I did not mention it. I wasn't aware that I needed to discuss every deck that the game plan didn't change, I'll make sure to include Imperial Painter, High Tide, Froot Loops and so on in my next one. Thank you for pointing this out.

[Lemnear]

I don't really care since earlier today you were preaching about Thorn & Dread of Night. Your knowledge on the format is out of date, which makes me think less of your opinions.

It really ridiculous that you call recent examples of Thorn in Eldrazi like at Eternal Extravaganza or at the SCG classic out of date

[Bryant Cook]

It really ridiculous that you call recent examples of Thorn in Eldrazi like at Eternal Extravaganza or at the SCG classic out of date

When you look at results on mtgtop8, the majority of successful lists do not play them main deck. However, it's nice to see you found two to prove your point instead of looking at the archetype as a whole.

[Lemnear]

When you look at results on mtgtop8, the majority of successful lists do not play them main deck. However, it's nice to see you found two to prove your point instead of looking at the archetype as a whole.

I stated that Eldrazi runs Thorn in their 75 and you called that "outdated info". Mainbord or Sideboard was never a topic I touched

[Final Fortune]

I don't get the hyperbole in this thread at all, basically the article just said that Cabal Ritual is too slow for the format right now - which is pretty accurate.

[Lemnear]

I don't get the hyperbole in this thread at all, basically the article just said that Cabal Ritual is too slow for the format right now - which is pretty accurate.

Its as "accurate" as looking at Rite of Flame or Chrome Mox in the context of Chalice @1 or @0. Mind that we are talking about the same matchups. While I don't question the theoretical speed-factor, the advantage gained inverts and bites you (more than ANT), if Chalice & Co land.

I don't think its fitting to just look at the deck under the aspect that you can combo T1 100% of the time, are always on the play (otherwise chalice @0 or tomb into Chalice @1 might happen) and ignore SB games per se (see: The Thorn discussion)

[Final Fortune]

No one is arguing about always winning the coin flip and going off turn 1, realistically speaking TES is half a turn faster than ANT because it uses Rite of Flame instead of Cabal Ritual and has a greater threat density so it can race Thalia, Guardian of Thraban more easily - that is the argument.

I understand and agree with your opinion on Chrome Mox, I play 14 lands and 1 Chrome Mox and don't think I will ever play more copies because they don't meaningfully contribute to your fundamental turn.
For me the best Storm deck is one that is faster than ANT and more consistent than TES right now.

I don't think anyone is ignoring Thorn, it may not be common but it's just another argument for why Cabal Ritual is too slow right now.

[Lemnear]

No one is arguing about always winning the coin flip and going off turn 1, realistically speaking TES is half a turn faster than ANT because it uses Rite of Flame instead of Cabal Ritual and has a greater threat density so it can race Thalia, Guardian of Thraban more easily - that is the argument.

I understand and agree with your opinion on Chrome Mox, I play 14 lands and 1 Chrome Mox and don't think I will ever play more copies because they don't meaningfully contribute to your fundamental turn.
For me the best Storm deck is one that is faster than ANT and more consistent than TES right now.

I don't think anyone is ignoring Thorn, it may not be common but it's just another argument for why Cabal Ritual is too slow right now.

Well, I would be satisfied, if there was a consistent way to adress these locks without folding to the secondary angle these decks bring to the table with their sideboard. You may be able to remove counterbalance but still have to ensure not losing to Clique or Flusterstorm. We have similar with Eldrazis (Thorn, Thought Knot Seer and Warping Veil) and D&T (Revoker, Canonist, Prelate, whatever).

My point in regards to Mox and Rite was more in regards to Chalice. If your opponent drops the Artifact and blocks your 0cc or 1cc spells (aka you being on the draw) your whole plan of trading speed for consistency suddenly becomes a pipebomb for your performance. Thats why I was hinting at the "have to win the coinflip" to evade chalice @0 or tomb into chalice @1.

[Final Fortune]

Well, I would be satisfied, if there was a consistent way to adress these locks without folding to the secondary angle these decks bring to the table with their sideboard. You may be able to remove counterbalance but still have to ensure not losing to Clique or Flusterstorm. We have similar with Eldrazis (Thorn, Thought Knot Seer and Warping Veil) and D&T (Revoker, Canonist, Prelate, whatever).

My point in regards to Mox and Rite was more in regards to Chalice. If your opponent drops the Artifact and blocks your 0cc or 1cc spells (aka you being on the draw) your whole plan of trading speed for consistency suddenly becomes a pipebomb for your performance. Thats why I was hinting at the "have to win the coinflip" to evade chalice @0 or tomb into chalice @1.

There is nothing either deck can do about a pre-emptive Chalice so who cares? Speed is for dealing with the problems you can race so you only have to deal with 1 angle of attack.

[Lemnear]

There is nothing either deck can do about a pre-emptive Chalice so who cares? Speed is for dealing with the problems you can race so you only have to deal with 1 angle of attack.

Miracles is the very first deck to name which can Fluster/Force and then drop Counterbalance, so the part about "1 angle of attack" is not true. Eldrazi or D&T can drop their hate and then attack your mana. It marks exactly the issue: Several angles of attacking us and we having serious problems recovering from resolved hate.

[Final Fortune]

Miracles is the very first deck to name which can Fluster/Force and then drop Counterbalance, so the part about "1 angle of attack" is not true. Eldrazi or D&T can drop their hate and then attack your mana. It marks exactly the issue: Several angles of attacking us and we having serious problems recovering from resolved hate.

Speed eliminates angles of attack, if I discard your Force of Will and then go off on the following turn your Counterbalance doesn't matter. I'm not saying every game plays out that way, but that's the philosophy behind being faster.

I really don't know why you're arguing, no one here is advocating anything we didnt already know - just that it's more applicable now.