[Deck] U/G Infect

[shocked439]

Hey everybody,

I went to EW last weekend and finished a disappointing 5-5. I was in a feature match with Jarvis Yu round one that was not much of a match.

My wins were DnT, Punishing Lands, and 3 Elves, losses were to storm, ub omnitell, 2x 4 color delver, and merfolk.

I played the bant version with library in the main

Thoughts on the event, it was really well run and a ton of fun.

Thoughts on the deck sylvan library should not have been in the main, it would have been better as spell pierce, fluster, or git probe. Blossoming defense was better than expected, and I expected it to be pretty good. Yes we've covered the down side it has over vines, the upside is real good though.

Thoughts on the matchups, I should have beat storm, he went for goblins g3 and I should have countered an earlier ritual. The Omni tell and delver matches I felt like I was consistently drawing the wrong portions of the deck, namely the lands. Punishing lands is always a tough matchup and I felt lucky to get out of it fairly easily, the 2/2 split of vines and defense saved me as I was able to chip away and when he tried to maze of ith I blossoming defensed in response for lethal, where vines was able to protect it a turn earlier. Punts definitely happened through out the day, 10 rounds is a long day and pretty tiring.

MB: 1 Dryad Arbor
1 Forest
4 Inkmoth Nexus
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Pendelhaven
3 Tropical Island
1 Wasteland
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Become Immense
2 Berserk
4 Blighted Agent
2 Blossoming Defense
4 Brainstorm
1 Crop Rotation
3 Daze
2 Flusterstorm
4 Force of Will
1 Gitaxian Probe
4 Glistener Elf
1 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Invigorate
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Ponder
1 Sylvan Library
2 Vines of Vastwood
Sideboard:
1 Absolute Law
1 Flusterstorm
1 Karakas
1 Krosan Grip
1 Pithing Needle
2 Rest in Peace
1 Savannah
1 Seal of Primordium
1 Spell Pierce
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Swords to Plowshares
1 Viridian Corrupter
1 Wasteland

[qomori]

I'm also on the keep Sylvan against D&T plan. That said, I've been mainboarding it for quite awhile, so it's not so much a matter of really wanting it, but I board out enough permission that there's not enough that I'd prefer to bring in to cut it after game 1.

[poxy14]

Sylvan is not an auto -4. It gives us options outside, probes/ponders/brainstorms.... and against taxes/prelates, chalices on 1, spot removals... this is where it really shines. especially vs bug variants.. It helps us sequence that 1 important turn we execute the kill.

I remembered baiting a blighted on his abrupt, just to land a major card advantage situation via SYLVAN. In a few turns it gave me my much needed protection/pumps on my infectors.

I also remembered being thoughtseized, opp. chose blighted over sylvan and he paid the price.

Once the above mentioned decks ran out, that's where you abuse it... even grixis, rug, brug, it's huge. UR's a different story though. Versus most of the fair, I'll leave it in.

[Neffy]

6-0'ed a LGS tourny last night.
Started with a bye and took it from there.

R1 Bye
R2 Death Shadow 2-0
R3 UR delver 2-1
R4 4C loam 2-0
R5 DnT 2-0
R6 Shardless Bug 2-0

R2
I have the nuts hand with elf, berserk, invi, brainstorm, 2 lands. not sure on last card
Trop, G.elf, go. He probes, cycles street wraith, probe, cycle, fetch, shock and lands a Shadow (9 life, so a 4/4)
I either draw noble or have it in hand. Either way, before combat i throw invi to pump my elf and reduce his shadow to a 1/1 (muaha gotta love that). The noble trigger and berserk makes me hit for 12, and blocks arent enough
G2. He lands go, i land go into noble. I probe and he has watery grave, kiln fiend, force, probe, probe. I later land blighted which gets dismembered. I let it go. He plays fiend and im thinking of countering, but decides not to. I then draw hydroblast lol. Die..
He plays a grim lavamancer with Watery and crypt on board. I waste his only red and he draws another watery.
I have invi, savannah and Bimmense with noble on the board. Dont remember what he forces, but i had mine for his. He thoughtseizes and takes bimmense. I draw berserk and noble kill for 12 or something.

R3
He goes delver and probes a lot. Delver attack unflipped into my elf and I snap block. He plays a stormchaser and swiftspears and i cant race him. I dared not go all in with my invi and berserk because he might have force. Turns out I had the kill since he had 2 lands.. damn..
G2 i have creatures and he draws mostly lands.
G3 The same. but double nobles help attack and he chumps for two turns. Finally a draw a pump and take him out.

R4
He mulls to 6. I go land, G.elf. he plays land. I play inkmoth, noble and attacks and throws in a invigorate since he runs discard. He goes to 6PSN. He plays sylvan library and i think for a while and decides not to force as he cant do much with drawing extra cards with the few lands he have in the early turns.
Normally auto-Force this but he had only 2 turns to find something.
I attack for 2 and he is at 8. He Draws 3 and GSZ for arbor to block elf later. Then has forest and scrubland open. He sees that he dies to inkmoth with exalted and decays noble eot. Then i draw.. invigorate. dead
G2 He mulls to a shaky 6 and me to a very shaky 5. 1 inkmoth and 4 green cards. With a draw and scry i thought it would be okay since I was 1 up.
He draws no useful lands and I eventually find a second inkmoth lol.. Then a forest from the top next turn. Have been attacking for 1 and now hold green open to croprot for waste for his Dark Depths if he crops after a stage. He doesnt.
He is at 3PSN i attack with inkmoth. No blocks, I inivgorate for lethal, he wastes, i vines, he golgari charms, I invigorate again and thats kill.

R5
He seems confidant, but Im thrilled about the MU. He runs no Ports tho.
G1 is G.elf go, i had fetched for forest, since i would be sure to go inkmoth-> sylvan. I sat with a daze tho, but weighted the t2 library higher than a turn 1 daze (which would set me back). He plows my elf and its fine. Inkmoth+sylvan next turn.
He plays Thalia which is annoying. I begin drawing so many cards. Eventually land 2 nobles and inkmoths. He SFMs for jitte and has Thalia and a 4/3 angel that gives everything exalted. He taps out while on 2PSN i think. He attacks with 5/4 thalia and I animate inkmoth, blocks and vines it without kicker to fill my yard (im not even low at life here). He was confused as to why i would throw out two cards, but seeing the bimmense from the top he realised where this was going...
Draw it, activate, noble trigger, pump through thalia, kill.
G2 he has vial through wasteland. I sit with waste, inkmoth and trop. cant have my trop wasted, so i play waste and pass. He plays no land and passes. I waste him eot. Then play trop and pass. I have krosan in hand and evenually get to 3 mana to kill his 3 counter vial in his draw step. He has already vialed Thalia in. He ups his second vial and passes.
I krosan the second one too. He begins drawing lands, mostly plains and SFMs for SOFAI, he has jitte in hand. He vials jitte into play eot while i sit with corrupter and vines ready. He doesnt equip but play a needle on my two inkmoths. Aww..
I draw my own needle, and goes corrupter the needle, and needles his Jitte. and plays G.elf. He now has only a SFM which doesnt do much, along a Canonist which doesnt matter either, as well as his thalia and mother.
Im at 4 life from hits from his dudes, and he plays a soulbonding dude to give Thalia double strike after pro-greening her with Mother (facing my corrupter and 2 inkmoths). He attacks, and I croprot for karakas and bounce her. Next turn i kicker vines and murder him :)

R6
G1 I draw only elves, inkmoths and blighted and he cant cope. I draw 2 invis eventually and play them outright so he cant hymn them away.
G2 my dazes were very live and took a tarmogoyf, then a engineered plague, then a liliana. He lands a sylvan but doesnt draw extra cards from it. I krosan it, but still face robot owls and a shardless. Next turn he lands a 7/8 goyf and a shardless that runs into needle naming inkmoth...
Im at 9 or 7 or something. Brainstorms my turn, see probe, agent, agent. I land both agents. He alpha strikes, i block goyf and falls to around 3. I draw the probe and sees he has only a land in hand. The probe let me draw my Bimmense which I hid on top while holding Invi in hand. Agent strikes and connects for 12 with noble exalted in the last possible turn.

Very good games IMO. :)
My list is regular, 3 trop, 1 savannah atm.
Board is:
2 fluster
2 Surgical (trying +1 rather than bojuka bog as i almost never uses it)
1 naturalize
2 krosan grip
2 STP
1 Fow
1 corrupter (sooo good)
1 hydroblast
1 karakas
1 waste (have also been very useful)
1 needle

[meat]

I've also considered cutting Bog, which I think might be the correct thing to do. I run one Crop Rotation main and a 2nd in the board, with Karakas, Bog, Wasteland as fetchable targets. Once I lose one of the targets, do you believe it is still worthwhile to run a 2nd rotation in the board?

[Neffy]

I've also considered cutting Bog, which I think might be the correct thing to do. I run one Crop Rotation main and a 2nd in the board, with Karakas, Bog, Wasteland as fetchable targets. Once I lose one of the targets, do you believe it is still worthwhile to run a 2nd rotation in the board?

Yes I would say so. I am very happy with 2 croprots in the main tho. They funCtion so well with the maindeck targets alone so yeah. I am almost never sad about seeing one. I run 2 main to complement the 2 bimmense better.

[poxy14]

Grats Neffy! That's an awesome run! and mostly 2-0 games. great job.
I'm also glad (since we're running almost the same list) it's been performing real well! Ive never changed my 2 croprot config wayback from 2014, I just love having them in my hand. It feels I will never run out of infectors once I draw them.. and works REALLY WELL especially when youre running the 2nd Bimmense, which I think is necessary in today's meta.

meanwhile, Ive 3-1'ed another mini last saturday. Losing only to BURN, when I only need just 1 more land to cast any protection, fow backup ftw. I didnt draw any land.

2-0 Nicfit
1-2 Burn, won easily game1 on turn2 kill.
2-1 DnT (2Bimmense is really huge alongside 2croprots, we always have an out vs prelate on 1)
2-1 Lands (croprots baby!) did a lot of tricks vs multiple wastelands, he "in response" croprotted his darkdepth on a vined inky, only for me to croprot it again to another inky (i tried reserving croprots for my lone wasteland vs his chasm) he ran out of impt resources. I love corrupters and krosans here for his vortex. RIP is huge here too! The splash white brings more versatility.

here's my updated sides:
3 stps (on bigger events, i'll be considering 1 hydroblast or 1 reality ripple over the 3rd stp)
2 flusterstorms
2 krosan grips
1 seal primordium (I use naturalize before, but seal dodges taxes once resolved. Insurance hate too vs discard effects
2 needles
1 RIP
2 surgicals
2 vcorrupters

[Neffy]

Grats Neffy! That's an awesome run! and mostly 2-0 games. great job.
I'm also glad (since we're running almost the same list) it's been performing real well! Ive never changed my 2 croprot config wayback from 2014, I just love having them in my hand. It feels I will never run out of infectors once I draw them.. and works REALLY WELL especially when youre running the 2nd Bimmense, which I think is necessary in today's meta.

meanwhile, Ive 3-1'ed another mini last saturday. Losing only to BURN, when I only need just 1 more land to cast any protection, fow backup ftw. I didnt draw any land.

2-0 Nicfit
1-2 Burn, won easily game1 on turn2 kill.
2-1 DnT (2Bimmense is really huge alongside 2croprots, we always have an out vs prelate on 1)
2-1 Lands (croprots baby!) did a lot of tricks vs multiple wastelands, he "in response" croprotted his darkdepth on a vined inky, only for me to croprot it again to another inky (i tried reserving croprots for my lone wasteland vs his chasm) he ran out of impt resources. I love corrupters and krosans here for his vortex. RIP is huge here too! The splash white brings more versatility.

here's my updated sides:
3 stps (on bigger events, i'll be considering 1 hydroblast or 1 reality ripple over the 3rd stp)
2 flusterstorms
2 krosan grips
1 seal primordium (I use naturalize before, but seal dodges taxes once resolved. Insurance hate too vs discard effects
2 needles
1 RIP
2 surgicals
2 vcorrupters

Seems to me that burn can go both ways. I know all MU can, but i remember Ross saying that it is a good MU with invigorate as counter spells and we being faster than him, especially if he choses to use cards as removal instead of throwing them at the dome.

Im torn on the seal vs. naturalize. Seal pumps goyf, but that rarely comes up and Seal is quite needed against both TA and shardless with strixes, libraries, needles on inkmoth, E.plagues, shardless, etc. Lot of targets..
It does dodge a thalia if you get it out early, but having seal in the first 2-3 turns is less likely than finding naturalize later with cantrips. Neither goes completely around thalia tho.
Its better against counter balance too, tho just counterable later.
Seal might run into Revoker against DnT where you have no other targets for it, where Naturalize would be better. but that is a narrow case even if the DnT player keeps in Revokers (which they might).

Tapping out for an enchantment is not my thing either, which is also why I dont play RIP (Sylvan is an exception). I would rather like to make the desicion at EOT.
You can also argue that if a deck with, say, decay and jitte can destroy Seal before slamming jitte - but the same argument goes against discard spells for naturalize... so thats probably not valid.

Just my thoughts. I do like me a Naturalize atm, but could test the Seal soon too.

[qomori]

Seems to me that burn can go both ways. I know all MU can, but i remember Ross saying that it is a good MU with invigorate as counter spells and we being faster than him, especially if he choses to use cards as removal instead of throwing them at the dome.

Im torn on the seal vs. naturalize. Seal pumps goyf, but that rarely comes up and Seal is quite needed against both TA and shardless with strixes, libraries, needles on inkmoth, E.plagues, shardless, etc. Lot of targets..
It does dodge a thalia if you get it out early, but having seal in the first 2-3 turns is less likely than finding naturalize later with cantrips. Neither goes completely around thalia tho.
Its better against counter balance too, tho just counterable later.
Seal might run into Revoker against DnT where you have no other targets for it, where Naturalize would be better. but that is a narrow case even if the DnT player keeps in Revokers (which they might).

Tapping out for an enchantment is not my thing either, which is also why I dont play RIP (Sylvan is an exception). I would rather like to make the desicion at EOT.
You can also argue that if a deck with, say, decay and jitte can destroy Seal before slamming jitte - but the same argument goes against discard spells for naturalize... so thats probably not valid.

Just my thoughts. I do like me a Naturalize atm, but could test the Seal soon too.

The thing that puts me over the top on Seal rather than Naturalize is that you can use it on Chalice on 1. I originally had it in when there was a lot of Miracles in my meta and in preparation for GP Tacoma, then ended up taking it out, but I made a home again now that Eldrazi are so prevalent.

I've been messing around with RBx Reanimator the last couple of weeks at my weekly Legacy night... looking forward to dusting off my real deck and counting some people up to 10 tonight though!

[Jesture]

The thing that puts me over the top on Seal rather than Naturalize is that you can use it on Chalice on 1. I originally had it in when there was a lot of Miracles in my meta and in preparation for GP Tacoma, then ended up taking it out, but I made a home again now that Eldrazi are so prevalent.

I've been messing around with RBx Reanimator the last couple of weeks at my weekly Legacy night... looking forward to dusting off my real deck and counting some people up to 10 tonight though!

Think you might have Naturalize mixed up with Nature's Claim.

Truth be told, I don't know if there's any appreciable difference between the two (Naturalize and Seal of Primordium.) I started running Seal back in the days of Dig Through Time Omnitell, and I'm still running it as there's a guy at my shop playing the Sneak/Show/Omni Hybrid.

That said, being able to empty the disenchant from your hand first then pop it later when you combo off has been incredibly useful. With Eldrazi as the most popular chalice deck, I'd much rather cast the Seal as soon as I draw it than hang on to a Naturalize that can potentially get stolen by a Thought Knot Seer. There's also the argument to be made that Seal can potentially get around a Thorn, while Naturalize will never have that opportunity.

[Jesture]

Did some quick testing after seeing this list http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=13963&d=282692&f=LE top 8 a relatively large event. Tested with a pretty stock list, went down to 2 Vines and played 3 Standstill/1 Swords to Plowshares in the flex slots. 3 copies of Standstill is definitely too many going forward, but I wanted to up the numbers to make sure I'd draw more copies in playtesting.

Matchups were:

B/G Depths - Never drew, sided out
R/B Reanimator - Drew once, sided out
Eldrazi - Drew once though I don't recall it mattering, sided out

Shardless BUG - Oh boy does it feel great to have a source of card advantage here. One counter left on Visions, cast Standstill. When they cast Visions, draw 3 cards then Force pitching blue card on their draw 3. Ended up losing this one by getting too excited about Standstill in G3, then lost to Shardless Agent doing its best impression of a Grey Ogre. Despite the loss, this seems like one of the best matchups for this card.

Grixis Delver - Standstill seems strong, though not quite as strong as it was against Shardless as the games here are often more about tempo and less about grinding card advantage. The one of Swords was good in removing threats EoT followed by an untap into Standstill to put a tight lock on the game. Having a way to combat the virtual card advantage of Therapy and Pyromancer seems like what we want in this matchup, but only more testing will tell if Standstill can come out quickly enough on an even/ahead board to be relevant in the matchup.

Death and Taxes - Great if opponent does not have Vial, poor otherwise. Inkmoth is the ideal beater in Standstill setups, but it has trouble connecting against a deck playing 4 ports and 4 Wastelands. I don't think Standstill is needed in this matchup, as its only situationally strong and our win percentage against this deck is already above 50%.

Didn't get a chance to test against Miracles, though I'm imagining its also strong there as the trend points towards Standstill's power level correlating with the grindiness of the opposing deck. Overall the card seems like a fine sideboard addition, helping out our matchups against some of the grindier power houses of the format. On the flip side, it seems poor against faster decks (like combo or Eldrazi) or against decks with Vial and Wasteland (such as Goblins or DnT) as the former are too fast to warrant tapping out for a 2 mana enchantment against, and the latter have ways to interact with the board without breaking the Standstill.

[Hopo]

Where did this Standstill trend pop up? I have been testing them myself lately and it is very surprising to see others do it also.

[qomori]

Where did this Standstill trend pop up? I have been testing them myself lately and it is very surprising to see others do it also.

I just came here to ask about that. Seeing the list in MTGGoldfish's Legacy article this week is the first I've seen it though. Going to give running 2 a try tonight at my weekly Legacy event in place of a fetch and Ponder.

How do you like it so far?

[Jesture]

Standstill ate a lot of Force of Wills, so I guess that's a good sign. Will try resolving one again on Saturday.

[Witch_king_of_angmar]

I'm currently 7-1 against eldrazi online, where I don't have a meekstone in my board because i didn't want to spend that much on a card i was medium on. I played the meekstone at EE5, and didn't run into a single edrazi deck (though they were everywhere around me). The reason I went with meekstone in the board live was mostly based on my inexperience with the deck, and not being sure what I'm naming with needle. Due to this, I chose to cut the needle for a meekstone....I wouldn't recommend that now.

I obviously have a small sample size, but I'm curious why people struggle with this matchup. I'd saw that I win 20% of my games where I let a chalice on 1 resolve, because it just doesn't matter. Just aggressively mulligan for a blighted agent or inkmoth and protect it. If they have a creature heavy hand, then they can't have much hate. If they draw all their hate, they can't race you.

Vs. Eldrazi, I board in 1 karakas (just as a land), 1 corrupter, 1 k grip, 1 seal of primodrium, 1 force of will, 1 dismember. I typically board out 2 glistener elf and the git probes.

Yes, i think that boarding out the elf is the way to go, it helped my %age. Keeping hands that can operate through chalice is better than mulling to a sideboard card. 2nd wasteland is really strong if you've got it!

[kellysandall]

When do/dont i play with dryad arbor? When should i play savannah? When playing savannah do you use containment priest? Whatabout absolute law?

[qomori]

When do/dont i play with dryad arbor? When should i play savannah? When playing savannah do you use containment priest? Whatabout absolute law?

I've never run Arbor in Legacy (though if the meta shifted to something where there was lots of LotV, I'd consider it). I like the strength of answers that splashing white gives the deck (Swords over Submerge, RiP over the Crop Rot/Bog, Absolute Law), but there's an argument to be made that if you're playing somewhere with a wide open field, straight UG is the way to go, since it's more focused on our plan, rather than answering our opponents' plan.

I haven't tried running Priest, but thinking about BRx Reanimator, they're likely stripping an answer from your hand before going off regardless, so I don't know that the potential surprise necessarily makes it better than RiP, and I like RiP against ANT, decks with both Goyf and Deathrite, and some Miracles builds.

Personally, I love Absolute Law. It's obviously great against Burn, but there's lots of Grixis Delver in my local meta and it's an all star in that match up.

[kellysandall]

I've never run Arbor in Legacy (though if the meta shifted to something where there was lots of LotV, I'd consider it). I like the strength of answers that splashing white gives the deck (Swords over Submerge, RiP over the Crop Rot/Bog, Absolute Law), but there's an argument to be made that if you're playing somewhere with a wide open field, straight UG is the way to go, since it's more focused on our plan, rather than answering our opponents' plan.

I haven't tried running Priest, but thinking about BRx Reanimator, they're likely stripping an answer from your hand before going off regardless, so I don't know that the potential surprise necessarily makes it better than RiP, and I like RiP against ANT, decks with both Goyf and Deathrite, and some Miracles builds.

Personally, I love Absolute Law. It's obviously great against Burn, but there's lots of Grixis Delver in my local meta and it's an all star in that match up.

Im not opposed to cutting arbor at all. Do you still play surgical as its an instant speed answer to graveyard stuff? Along with rip? Also you cut crop rot completely with white splash? Graveyard decks are usually our weaker matches because theyre recycling wastelands and p-fires. Im just unsure which to play, tom ross keeps its variable. What your opinion on main sylvan library? Im also interested in absolute law cause we all hate grim lavamancer

[Neffy]

Im not opposed to cutting arbor at all. Do you still play surgical as its an instant speed answer to graveyard stuff? Along with rip? Also you cut crop rot completely with white splash? Graveyard decks are usually our weaker matches because theyre recycling wastelands and p-fires. Im just unsure which to play, tom ross keeps its variable. What your opinion on main sylvan library? Im also interested in absolute law cause we all hate grim lavamancer

I dont like to play arbor as it absolutely sucks in the opening hand or to draw it later. Im a fan of the STPs (see my list a few posts back) as the only white cards in the board. I dont want to be tapping out for RIP at sorcery speed. I have also loved croprot way more, but lately the bojuka bog through croprot is not seeing use so Im upping to 2 surgical extractions, yet still running 2 croprot for Bimmense x2 and because it's a REALLY good card.
Surgicals go much wider than RIP and costs nothing which suits our restrictive mana plan. They also are great for p.fires.

Sylvan library is nuts and I keep one either in the main or in the board. I have it right now in the flex slot main, and im not sorry about it. It wreaks people. You could argue to run two, but thats pushing it IMO (they they do tend to get forced or decayed quickly)..
Against lavamancers, which mostly comes out of UR delver/burn decks, I would say pithing needle is better. You probably also have your Swords here, so the RIP is meh here as it doesnt do much else. If it comes from Jund, then, sure, it does more. but they are slow until they have 3-4 mana.

Needle is also very flexible as we know it. Wastelands is what i mostly name. Some weeks ago I cast it against a grixis delver player. He had 2 waste in hand and drew 2 more lol. Deal with it B)

EDIT: regarding savannah, im running it in the main along 3 tropicals. I very rarely have issues with it not being an island (i dont run ponders to mitigate it also). That also gives me an extra slot in the board, which otherwise would be for the dual.. which sucks IMO.

[spector14]

Do You think that the primer should be updated? It's true that the last period has not undergone a real revolution in the decklist, but the primer has now two years!


Inviato dal mio iPad utilizzando Tapatalk