I very briefly tried Impulse a couple years ago. Grisly Salvage is better if you want this kind of effect (which you probably don't).
There are some blue nice blue options for the Garruk/Meren/etc slot. Kynaios and Tiro is Zenithable and does not use the grave, but it does draw the opponent cards.
Meddling Mage is a nice versatile hatebear, and probably the blue card we most want to use. Which is kinda damning with faint praise.
Has anyone figured out any secret tech for the Painter/Grindstone matchup? I keep running into the same guy at the top tables of the monthly Legacy 1K event I play in, and it's always a quick and merciless thrashing. If you can't win the dice roll and get GB online via a basic forest and a Mox, you're fucked.
I tend not to have a problem with the matchup using my list. I just aggressively mull (to 5 if need be). That is a 97.8% chance on the play, and an 80.6% chance on the draw of you having a hand that can make green post-moon (not counting fetch+drs openers). Those are pretty good odds IMO.
I'm playing a mainboard Pridemage, so getting out of a moon (or the combo) after that is not a big deal. Playing 0 Lilis, an extra Zenith, and currently 1 dismember all also help against blood moon.
Postboard I bring in 2 Revokers and 1 Rec Sage at the minimum.
If you are just looking for some spice to put in your board against the combo, Pulverize (or its little bro Crash) does the trick. Tho chalice is pretty good at turning off the combo already.
Adding even 1 SB card is almost certainly being overprepared for painter under normal circumstances, but if you have the room and this is your biggest problem then that is probably fine.
I am actually testing a list with no red but with blue in. It does not seem promising since pfire is to important for our strategy.
The list has Jace, leovold, intuition and a singleton daze for the beats. It greatly improves our sideboard against combo with 2 flusterstorms and 2 vendilion cliques but it bashes our grindfest matchups.
Gonna do a side event in madrid with it and will report.
I am also trying a few cards in the stock list that have been fine.
1 grim Flayer for 1 Dark confidant - great zenith target when Knight is not viable, matches up well against TNN and is a great option against our burn matchup/ biggest con is that RiP is a bit better against us
1 Toxic Deluge for 1 Liliana - meta purpose
1 Collective brutality for 1 gaddock teeg - sold my teeg by mistake(thought I had 2), collective brutality is fine, helps with the burn matchup, when it is good it is a bomb, otherwise is kinda lack luster.
Played the monthly this Saturday, quick overview below:
BUG Delver (0-2)
Goblins (2-0)
Burn (2-0)
Deathblade (2-1)
TOP 4
Charbelcher (1-2)
Hey All -
Played this deck to a second place finish at a 70 man local event. Was running thespian / DD in the main, but never found a time where it was helpful or I really wanted it. I get that it acts as a tutorable "I win" button with knight, but I never really see that opportunity happening where it isn't a win more. Was hoping to get a sense of where y'all find it most useful.
Thanks!
Hey,Originally Posted by Leenus
The combo often works as a get out of jail card. When facing for example Bant or Tribal decks(Gobliins, Merfolk) you are either grinding out the game or you suddenly face a couple of true name nemesis or a wide board that you can't deal with. That's when you pull the trigger with a couple of activations(especially if you already have 1 of the pieces).
It is also good that it is a recurrable threat and you can tutor for it if you need to end the game fast(against combo for example).
Having Thespian's Stage in the deck is also very good against Lands, but be sure to side out Dark depths because it can be a liability.
The Most lackluster the combo can be is against Miracles and Death and Taxes. You don't want to get behind on lands and they have many ways to deal with it. Still you can steal a first game in a blink of an eye.
Just for some perspective, last tournament was facing Death Blade and my board consisted of 2 knights, 1 thespian's stage and 3 lands. His was 1 SFM, 1 Clique, 2 TNN(1 equiped with SoFaI).
I was at 7 Life and was able to decay the SoFaI, float mana crack with knight, float another one and crack for DD and block Clique and Steal the game.
One can argue that he should no have attacked with Clique, but it was a matter of getting a karakas next turn and bounce it.
Hope that helps.
Has anyone tried Saskia, the Unyielding? Is zenith tutoreable
Feels like a win more. I cannot imagine situations where this would be better then KotR or where this has impact on a negative boardstate.Has anyone tried Saskia, the Unyielding? Is zenith tutoreable
Kagu-Tsuchi カグツチ (Jund NicFit)
Rhino's Abbondanza (Junk NicFit)
4c Aggro Loam
I was pretty disappointed that she was a purely aggressive card. We are not an aggro deck, so this card isn't helping anything.
Only place I see bringing this card in is against Miracles.
Fringe situations where you go for it to kill a jace because of the haste. Still you got better options with haste.
Probably too slow for combo/win more
Just learned that you can maze of ith at the end of your combat to untap a knight or whatever creature.
- Have a life from the loam in the yard to clear your top 3 for Sylvan library
- If you have a thespian stage out and they needle it you can copy a land to get around it
- Float mana when you sac a land to knight (I feel stupid for missing this)
Is that about the all of the tricky interactions this deck has?
Edit:I should read the card (thanks apoc6)
Last edited by Digitend89; 12-07-2016 at 01:51 AM.
If they revoker your stage, tell them to read their card ;p
There is a bunch of stuff like that.
Fetchlands are removal spells for attacking X/1s. I've killed plenty of Young Pyromancers with a sneaky dryad arbor.
Punishing Fire interacts very positively with your Sword to Plowshares, and with opposing Batterskulls.
Meren + Dryad Arbor give you infinite chump blockers.
Knight on defense can just about kill anything in combat, as activating knight to get a wasteland and targeting your own land is a pump of +3/+3.
Knight also benefits from dredging Loam. With a cycle land this happens at instant speed. Scooze does too, sorta.
If you have a Chalice in hand, but a Teeg on the board Karakas helps you deploy those cards in the right order.
Karakas also protects your Legends.
Oh, and there are the 20 different ways that library and loam interact. the sweetest of these is that dredging twice lets you keep both loams at no life cost.
There are more that are either more obvious or more niche.
Last edited by apocolyps6; 12-07-2016 at 02:12 PM.
I played a league with this same list http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=14103&d=283863&f=LE and I felt like only 3 decay and 2 library made the deck a lot less appealing, I went 1-3. I was always wanting to draw my library and could never draw it. Played the league with my version with 2 library and 5-0 the league. The basic swamp has been great. http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=14017&d=283156&f=LE
Thank you. I've been trying to figure out what to cut the Deathrite for, and Swamp makes a lot of sense. I might cut a Heath for a Marsh Flats, but maybe that's wrong. I still prefer Maelstrom Pulse to the 4th Decay, but you've clearly got results to back up your approach.
Hey guys,
Will play the finals of our yearly league next weekend and need to bounce a couple of ideas.
The finals (presumably) will consist of mostly grindy non-blue decks (Jund, Maverick, D&T) with maybe a couple of delvers, 1 Miracles, 1 Elves and 1 or 2 fast combos(Tes/Belcher/Sneack&Show)
My list is currently the following:
1x Badlands
1x Barren Moor
2x Bayou
1x Dryad Arbor
1x Forest
3x Grove of the Burnwillows
1x Karakas
1x Maze of Ith
1x Savannah
1x Scrubland
1x Taiga
1x Tranquil Thicket
1x Tropical Island
4x Verdant Catacombs
4x Wasteland
1x Windswept Heath
1x Wooded Foothills
1x Cabal Pit
4x Dark Confidant
1x Gaddock Teeg
4x Knight of the Reliquary
1x Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1x Scavenging Ooze
2x Green Sun's Zenith
2x Life from the Loam
1x Toxic Deluge
3x Abrupt Decay
3x Punishing Fire
1x Sylvan Library
2x Liliana of the Veil
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Mox Diamond
Sideboard (15)
1x Containment Priest
2x Ethersworn Canonist
1x Garruk Relentless Flip
1x Golgari Charm
3x Leyline of the Void
1x Reclamation Sage
3x Swords to Plowshares
2x Thoughtseize
1x Toxic Deluge
Current thoughts:
- Put the DD+Thespian back in
- swap cabal pit(good vs prelate) for an extra zenith
- drop the leylines but it is a gamble if anyone brings BR Reanimator(never did but you never know)
- really like the toxic deluge for the 3rd lili since D&T and grindness is assured
Help is appreciated.
I mean how good is the Leovoid? I guess it would be nice to have a 2nd hate bear. I like the sideboard(14 out of 15 of what I'm playing, choke for c priest is the only difference). I feel like prelate isn't as big of deal after sideboard with swords, deluge, and garruk. I also haven't tested cabal pit but does seem like it could be very useful. I'm not a fan of dd and ts because of the mana is already terrible. I have added a basic swamp and it's been great, with delver, lands and death and taxes being popular.
Leovold is great in pretty much all matchups, almost always a 2 for 1 and deactivates(kinda) opposing ports/wastelands. It doesn't cause too much strain in the manabase since I run a sole tropical but it is an ongoing experiment.
I played with a swamp a while back and it was great. Maybe I'll cut the cabal pit for it. I am also not sure about playing 27 lands without TS+DD. Maybe I can cut it for another card.
With the expected meta I won't run a choke, but I am also not sure on the containment priest since it will be low impact.
Would certainly run a tabernacle for this field if I could get my hands in one. Any ideas for it? Either a great card vs glass canon combo or a grindy one(extra planeswalker maybe?).
I am a huge fan of 2 library for the grindy match ups. I also don't have a tabernacle in actual cards but do on mtgo and I don't play it. I think a second golgari charm would be my next suggestion because of its utility.
The biggest mistake people make with this deck is playing it like pseudo Lands. Life from the loam is a great tool this deck has but it can easily function without it. You should always have a good reason to dredge, if you plan to do so. Do not dredge just because you can.
I've been thinking about picking this deck back up with GP Louisville on the horizon. I;ve played it in the past two GP's and have gone 5-4 both times, but it seems to be pretty well positioned going forward. I anticipate a lot of miracles, eldrazi, D&T, and grixis delver.
Concerning tabernacle, I think it has some narrow spots where it can shine, so it depends on your SB. For me personally, I have lost to grixis just shitting out a bunch of tokens via pyromancer when I had a chalice in play. Also, depending on how you feel about your elves match up, it could be good. Overall, it seems to strengthen our already good match ups, so I can't recommend to buy a $1000 card for a maybe-board card.
Since I am expecting a lot of grindy matchups(>50%) I am thinking of putting teeg in the sideboard and upping the decay count. The extra land will probably become DRS again.
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