[Deck] BUG "Shardless" Control

[weiuweiu]

I think it's close. In terms of non-overlapping targets

Fatal Push (always) kills:
Endless One
Serra Avenger
Entreat Tokens
Tarmogoyf
Equipped creatures
Painter's Servant
Monastery Swiftspear (though Disfigure can usually kill it)
Stormchaser Mage

Disfigure (always) kills:
Vendilion Clique


Corner Cases:
Knight of the Reliquary (more control w/ Fatal Push)
Leovold (sometimes can kill with Fatal Push)
Combat tricks (easier with Disfigure, relevant against Delve creatures & Eldrazi)
Monastery Mentor (can usually kill with Disfigure)

Maybe a split?

If you got a fetch with the push you can get so much also.
Thought knot Seer for one. Master of the Wild Hunt in mirrors for those playing it. A bit tired atm but it just feels better. I will preorder two foil and try it out.

[Ayiluss]

Bant can mean so many things at this point that I'm hesitant to make a blanket recommendation. With my 75 from a few posts up, I'd board as follows against Esper and Jeskai:

-4 Force of Will
-3 Baleful Strix
+2 Disfigure
+2 Thoughtseize
+1 Garruk Relentless
+1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
+1 Vendilion Clique

Bant is a little trickier since they're more creature based, they (usually) have their own Leovolds, and sometimes have Stifle. I'd probably board similarly against them, so:

-4 Force of Will
-2 Hymn to Tourach
-2 Baleful Strix
+2 Thoughtseize
+2 Disfigure
+1 Dismember
+1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
+1 Garruk Relentless
+1 Toxic Deluge

I might have the Hymn/Thoughtseize/Strix numbers wrong for Bant, but I think it's close. It's more board-focused than Esper or Jeskai so you want all the removal. Just keep their creature count low enough that Liliana and Jitte can carry you across the finish line. Save Decays for Equipment if you can, and try to maintain Deathrite supremacy.

It was just regular Bant Stoneblade which got some more attention recently (with SFM, TNN, DRS, Umezawa's Jitte, Batterskull, SoFaI). I'm not sure exactly how his list is since it was just a random game online and as I said the thing I was unsure the most was whether to board out FoW or not so you answered it basically.

I like discard/removal plan as you said too and probably FoW isn't good in grindy, fair matchups so boarding them out makes sense but I wasn't sure.

My sb is as follows (if it helps although I'm still working on it):

1x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Null Rod
1x Pithing Needle
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Thoughtseize
2x Disfigure
1x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Sylvan Library
1x Toxic Deluge
1x Golgari Charm
1x Garruk Relentless
1x Vendilion Clique

[btm10]

If you got a fetch with the push you can get so much also.
Thought knot Seer for one. Master of the Wild Hunt in mirrors for those playing it. A bit tired atm but it just feels better. I will preorder two foil and try it out.

Totally missed the Fetch/Wasteland interaction. Seems like it definitely has an edge over Disfigure then.

It was just regular Bant Stoneblade which got some more attention recently (with SFM, TNN, DRS, Umezawa's Jitte, Batterskull, SoFaI). I'm not sure exactly how his list is since it was just a random game online and as I said the thing I was unsure the most was whether to board out FoW or not so you answered it basically.

I like discard/removal plan as you said too and probably FoW isn't good in grindy, fair matchups so boarding them out makes sense but I wasn't sure.

My sb is as follows (if it helps although I'm still working on it):

1x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Null Rod
1x Pithing Needle
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Thoughtseize
2x Disfigure
1x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Sylvan Library
1x Toxic Deluge
1x Golgari Charm
1x Garruk Relentless
1x Vendilion Clique

Any reason for Surgical/Cage over Leyline? What's your starting 60?

[Ayiluss]

Totally missed the Fetch/Wasteland interaction. Seems like it definitely has an edge over Disfigure then.



Any reason for Surgical/Cage over Leyline? What's your starting 60?

I play Cage because there are usually 1-2 Elves where I go to the tournament and Jund with regular UB Reanimator and there is no BR Reanimator (at least not yet) and not much of it on Xmage where I play too. I'm new to the deck so I could be wrong with this but as I said I'm still in the process of tuning my list.

My list is:

Creatures:

2x Baleful Strix
4x Deathrite Shaman
4x Shardless Agen
4x Tarmogoyf

Other Spells:

4x Abrupt decay
4x Brainstorm
4x Force of Will
4x Ancestral Vision
3x Hymn to Tourach
1x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Toxic Deluge
2x Liliana of the Veil
1x Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Lands:

4x Verdant catacombs
3x Polluted Delta
2x Misty Rainforest
2x Bayou
1x Tropical Island
4x Underground Sea
1x Forest
1x Swamp
1x Creeping Tar Pit
3x Wasteland

[Venomous72]

I play Cage because there are usually 1-2 Elves where I go to the tournament and Jund with regular UB Reanimator and there is no BR Reanimator (at least not yet) and not much of it on Xmage where I play too. I'm new to the deck so I could be wrong with this but as I said I'm still in the process of tuning my list.

My list is:

Creatures:

2x Baleful Strix
4x Deathrite Shaman
4x Shardless Agen
4x Tarmogoyf

Other Spells:

4x Abrupt decay
4x Brainstorm
4x Force of Will
4x Ancestral Vision
3x Hymn to Tourach
1x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Toxic Deluge
2x Liliana of the Veil
1x Jace, the Mind Sculptor

Lands:

4x Verdant catacombs
3x Polluted Delta
2x Misty Rainforest
2x Bayou
1x Tropical Island
4x Underground Sea
1x Forest
1x Swamp
1x Creeping Tar Pit
3x Wasteland

Have you messed with Leovold much? He has taken over my local meta. I am forcing him in every list I run now.

[weiuweiu]

As i said before. Leovold is a boss.

I really do think he is a shardless staple by now.

[Quasim0ff]

I firmly believe if your mana can produce U B and G, and you are aiming to go slightly later, you need serious considerations for NOT running Leovold.

He is insanely pushed, and not playing him is in 99% of all situations wrong. Especially how the meta looks currently.

[Ayiluss]

I'll give him a try then.

I'm not sure whether he should be in the main deck or in the sb. What do you think? Maybe md instead of third Hymn?

[btm10]

I'd cut Jace for him.

[weiuweiu]

I'll give him a try then.

I'm not sure whether he should be in the main deck or in the sb. What do you think? Maybe md instead of third Hymn?

I would cut 1hymn for him. I like running one jace in the Deck. I would also only run 3 usea. And have 2 Tropical in your list instead.

[btm10]

I would cut 1hymn for him. I like running one jace in the Deck. I would also only run 3 usea. And have 2 Tropical in your list instead.

I didn't even notice the 4th Sea. I'd cut it for a Ponder. And I really dislike Jace in this deck right now. He's really powerful, but what matchups is he good in? BGx mirrors and Miracles? Amd Hymn is probably necessary if you're expecting the GP to feature a lot of combo. If not Ponder, I'd run the 3rd Strix.

[Izzio]

Hello everyone. New to the forum but wanted to say thanks to all those who have helped me along my shardless journey. Quick question. I am also a firm believer in Leovold being great and JTMS not being the best in this meta. The question is, would it be correct to drop to 21 lands from 22 if there are no 4 drops in my main? I have Garruk Relentless in the SB and NoSB rotates in and out depending where I play. I've had good luck with 21 lands so far but was wondering what the overriding opinion on here would be. Thanks in advance and love the work being done here.

[btm10]

I'm a fan of 21 + Ponder. You can probably squeeze down to 20 if you skimp on Wastelands, but I wouldn't recommend it.

[Whitefaces]

I'm a fan of 21 + Ponder. You can probably squeeze down to 20 if you skimp on Wastelands, but I wouldn't recommend it.

Agree with this, you kind of want 21.5 lands so people have used Ponder or Life from the Loam to fill the role of half a land in the past. I think Ponder is a better choice in the format at the moment as it's quite fast.

[order]

How are your results against four-color(with snapcaster) and hymn sultai delver?

I expect the increase of these strategies to deal better with the increase of combo decks (specially SnT and BR reanimator).

I am running a list similar to btm10, with jitte, 3xhymn, 3xstrix 2xlili and 0 jaces. Games are a little unfavored still.


My sideboard strategy: -4xfow +2x disfigure +1x sylvan +1x pulse/deluge (-1hymn if both)

My shardless
4x shaman
4x goyf
4x shard less
3x strix
1x leovold

2x liliana
1x jitte
1x toxic deluge
4x decay

3x vision
1x ponder
4x brainstorm
4x fow
3x hymn

21 lands
3 waste
2 basics
1 tar pit
3 underground
2x bayou
1x tropical
9x fetch

—
side
3x surgical
2x seize
2x duress
2x needle
2x disfigure
1x toxic deluge
1x golgari charm
1x pulse
1x sylvan library

[ESG]

I'm a fan of 21 + Ponder. You can probably squeeze down to 20 if you skimp on Wastelands, but I wouldn't recommend it.

At what point does this deck forgo the Shardless + Visions standard? If Ponder and Leovold are being adopted and Fatal Push is incoming, those are going to push out other cards. And if the format is on the whole faster, as Whitefaces and others have noted, why would Shardless BUG even be a good choice? In my view, Shardless wants a slow environment so its card-advantage engines can grind down the other deck. I've seen the deck completely disappear in the Seattle area over the past months, replaced by white Aluren, then BUG Aluren, and now Dark Bant. Deathblade is also still popular here, but part of that is due to new players who began with Death & Taxes in EMA migrating their Stoneforges to a blue deck.

[btm10]

At what point does this deck forgo the Shardless + Visions standard? If Ponder and Leovold are being adopted and Fatal Push is incoming, those are going to push out other cards. And if the format is on the whole faster, as Whitefaces and others have noted, why would Shardless BUG even be a good choice? In my view, Shardless wants a slow environment so its card-advantage engines can grind down the other deck. I've seen the deck completely disappear in the Seattle area over the past months, replaced by white Aluren, then BUG Aluren, and now Dark Bant. Deathblade is also still popular here, but part of that is due to new players who began with Death & Taxes in EMA migrating their Stoneforges to a blue deck.

I haven't been actively playing Shardless since mid-December, so I'm not sure. Everything I posted since then was based on the testing and deck building I did to test for the GP with people, though I was very happy with the lists I was posting. My feeling right now is that Shardless is about even against Miracles, 4c Delver, and Leovold BUG while being unfavored against the format's other top decks (Reanimator, D&T, Aluren, Lands). Maybe in local metas with lots of Infect and BUG/RUG/Grixis Delver it would be better, though I've kind of hit a wall with the deck in terms of interest.

Right now seems like a fine time to work without Agent - the velocity doesn't matter as much and there are better-positioned ways of grinding card advantage

[pipet76]

Hi

I've seen that almost every list is using at least 3 U Seas, is this mandatory?

For the moment I have 2 U Seas, 2 Trop Island, 1 Bayou, I was going for the 2nd bayou since is cheaper to buy. What do you think?

[Secretly.A.Bee]

I won't play a bug list without 3. First wasteland almost always eats the first USea. Just my opinion.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[btm10]

Hi

I've seen that almost every list is using at least 3 U Seas, is this mandatory?

For the moment I have 2 U Seas, 2 Trop Island, 1 Bayou, I was going for the 2nd bayou since is cheaper to buy. What do you think?

The Seas are pretty important. Sea casts all of your turn 1 plays, whereas Bayou only casts Deathrite and Thoughtseize, amd Shardless is still a blue deck. The Trop is an okay substitute, but I'd recommend against Hymn until you have 3 Seas. Maybe give the BUG Leovold deck a try until you find the third one? For what it's worth I think that deck is better positioned than Shardless.