Better than having 3 Tundras and 1 Volc.Originally Posted by jwl3gg
The purpose of any moat is to impede attack. Some are filled with water, some with thistles. Some are filled with things best left unseen.
I start seeing much more Spell Snare then Spell Pierce, what about Gideon AZ in the mirror?
I'd be wary of going for 4cmc sorcery speed win conditions in the mirror, even if they're not hit with Pyroblast. It's certainly hard to interact with and might get you there, but giving the opponent a window to play a CB is risky. Not sure what you'd cut from the SB for it too? It is really strong vs other fair decks too, though.
You can take a look at this list : http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=12681&d=273532&f=LE
2 Tundra and 2 Volcanic :)
IT IS TWO AND A HALF MINUTES TO MIDNIGHT
in the mirror there is just 1 card able to interact with a resolved Gideon: CJ. Not even an EOT ambush-Clique really gets you there.
With 2 Sulfur 1,2 Gideon and 1 Entreat Mirror might be much easier imho
Mentor and Entreat can answer Gideon pretty easily.
How much have you've actually PLAYED the mirror?
Awesome! Thanks for taking the time to dig deeper into this concern. Looks like it truly was just paranoiaI went ahead and tested the shuffler in solitaire mode for two games with a deck designed to do nothing but cantrip into Ponder and Portent, and I feel pretty confident in saying that at least in solitaire mode, Ponder and Portent both work as intended.
I recorded the three cards I stacked with Ponder or Portent, as well as the number of copies of that card remaining in my library in parentheses. I shuffled on every instance and recorded the card drawn off the "blind" Ponder or Portent. In all eleven occasions, I drew a different card than the one stacked on top, and it does not appear that I am any more likely to drop the middle or bottom card either.
Cantrip Cast Top Card Middle Card Bottom Card Card Drawn Game 1 Ponder Preordain (2) Serum Visions (4) Gush (4) Treasure Cruise Game 1 Ponder Serum Visions (4) Portent (4) Portent (4) Scalding Tarn Game 1 Ponder Dig Through Time (3) Gush (4) Gush (4) Gush Game 1 Portent Flooded Strand (1) Tundra (1) Dig Through Time (3) Treasure Cruise Game 2 Ponder Gush (4) Volcanic Island (1) Flooded Strand (3) Flooded Strand Game 2 Ponder Gush (4) Scalding Tarn (3) Scalding Tarn (3) Gitaxian Probe Game 2 Portent Underground Sea (1) Preordain (3) Dig Through Time (3) Serum Visions Game 2 Portent Polluted Delta (2) Serum Visions (3) Cruise (3) Preordain Game 2 Portent Underground Sea (1) Serum Visions (2) Dig Through Time (2) Polluted Delta Game 2 Portent Ponder (2) Gush (3) Serum Visions (3) Scalding Tarn Game 2 Ponder Thought Scour (2) Treasure Cruise (1) Gush (1) Brainstorm 
This isn't how logic in constructing sideboards works. Sure, I'd love to have multiple Containment Priests in my sideboard whenever I play against Sneak/Reanimator. I'd also like to have Moats and Back to Basics whenever I play against Eldrazi; Humility whenever I play against Aluren; more disenchant effects against Death and Taxes etc etc etc. You only get 15 slots and when you're always talking about bringing in all these silver bullet cards for specific matchups - it doesn't make much sense.
As someone who actually played Gideon for a brief window around GP Columbus, I can tell you from experience it's not really worth the slot. Sure, it's decent against BUG Decks and situationally solid in the mirror but it's not really where you want to be at. I'd rather have access to an additional Vendilion Clique, a 4th Pyroblast, Spell Snares or even a 4th Snapcaster Mage postboard in the Miracles mirror. All these cards happen to be good against a wide range of other matchups. The issue with Gideon in the mirror is that he's only good when both players resources in hand have been exhausted. You never really want to tap out for a Gideon, let your shields down to your opponent resolving Countertop and getting something like an uncontested Mentor down. I'd always focus my efforts on playing specific matchups technically soundly then scouring for "unbeatable" narrow bullet cards.
"Take your time."
Legacy: UWR Miracles
Vintage: UW Landstill
^ That, well said.
BBD's article regarding the GP,
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/articl...date=1-19-2017
Are there any guides what card is good in x matchups? Like what matchups are Entreat the Angels good for, and when to side it out etc.
In general, Entreat is a very good win condition against decks that lack soft permission, are grindy in nature and/or have difficulty dealing with multiple Angel tokens - Decks like Shardless, Jund, 4Colour Loam, Death and Taxes, BGx, Lands etc. Entreat is a lot more difficult to set up against decks that have access to stuff like Spell Pierce, Flusterstorms etc such as Delver or the mirror postboard. In most combo matchups you don't really want Entreat as a win con either, as you will typically win games with disruption creatures alone. Entreat is also a lot less preferred to Mentors against very aggressive decks such as Burn or Eldrazi as its harder to set up and a lot slower than Mentor.
"Take your time."
Legacy: UWR Miracles
Vintage: UW Landstill
Thanks!
Thanks for sharing the article, nice to see an alternative view in how to play miracles.
I would say with the addition of mentor to eschew from entreat the angels, miracles can definitely be seen more a mid range deck than a pure control deck. Even if it means jamming counterbalances/mentors into dazes/pierces. Gonna try with BBD's approach and see how it goes. What are your opinions on this?
I would agree with you if it wasn't that you just see the usual 3-4 decks the whole tournament and for fair decks there is already Mentor.
Gideon is very strong against both 4color/Sultai Delver and the in the mirror. It simply is not your priority and it flips to counter Jace
1x is fine.. I agree that Clique has the priority though
What tournaments are you talking about, and do you play in many?
GP Louisville had 7 archetypes in the top 8.
yes and gp Columbus had 4 Miracles in the top 8 and GP Chiba had 3.
Miracles/Mirror is a very common matchup
I think an important point to make here is that some of the generalizations based on BBD's article are based on a metagame that is just now emerging. BUG decks were at a very high point at GP Louisville, probably higher than that of GP Paris, the last heyday of Team America. If Decay-based and TNN-based decks become the norm, the metagame as a whole just means things are slower. BUG delver prevailed over the tried-and-true shells of Grixis and that means overall less lightning bolts. Mentor excels in situations like these where, before, it was met with a simple bolt more often, and bolt also often answered JTMS in this sense. I'm not saying that mentor ate a bolt and died everytime, it still shone and the concept of midrange-miracles decks is nothing new, but in this new, emerging metagame, a card like Lightning Bolt will be played less overall, especially with this new 1 CMC removal spell that doesn't kill Jace. BUG decks will be overall on the rise and it's possible that the midrange-style of miracles can be used to fight against an overall slower and grindier metagame.
NOTE: I am not comparing mentor to entreat in this sense, simply highlighting why this style of miracles and mentor+Jace shells in general might just be better than ever in the post-Louisville realm of Legacy. It's possible that I'm assuming far too much as Legacy is a rather slow and immutable format, but that's my two-cents.
I disagree that Entreat is objectively inferior to Mentor (as BBD believes). It all depends on the style of deck and the metagame for it. If you want to play Miracles as a hard-control deck, then ETA is a better finisher. If you want to play Miracles as a tap-out control deck, then Mentor is better. And like the above poster said, Mentor was a lot worse in a meta that had cheap kill spells, and since the meta is shifting from that Mentor is better positioned now.
I don't like jamming my win-cons without a way to protect them, which is why I don't like playing Mentor main. I'm fine jamming a CB into a Daze if I have a better followup next turn, but I don't want to lose a T3 Mentor to a Decay or Bolt because that's one less way I'll be able to actually kill my opponent rather than make them concede to the lock (which they don't do anyway).
The purpose of any moat is to impede attack. Some are filled with water, some with thistles. Some are filled with things best left unseen.
There are currently 2 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 2 guests)
Reply With Quote