Thanks. I agree with most of this. I don't agree with toxic deluge. If I play a board wipe, it'll be the one for 2 (b) and destroys all white creatures. It's better than DoN imo. At least, I'm pretty sure I'm more afraid of it than DoN when playing dnt.
Edit: name of card is Virtue's Ruin.
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Last edited by Secretly.A.Bee; 01-24-2017 at 02:02 PM.
To respond to this point when you are talking about the DnT/BUG match up. Sure Leovold isn't amazing as a 3/3 but in comparison outside of Mirran Crusader and Equipment Leovold is literally the biggest creature on the battlefield against DnT as a 3/3 which is still worth noting because he doesn't care about any other creature of ours except Flickerwisp and Serra Avenger IF you run it. Even then he still trades with themOriginally Posted by redtwister
Batterskull is also still really good against the BUG games w/o TNN. Being big enough to rumble, not soft to AD and often able to strap onto fresh bodies if/as the game grinds later. Not saying Leovold is especially poor against up, just that our deck/plan/solutions are hurt less by him on the Battlefield than most other Legacy strategies.
Edit I guess you note equipment but with SFM - Wisps, SFMs, Avengers/Crusaders is ~11 creature 'answers' to him an aggressive force.
TPDMC
What from Cairo said, but also still a 3/3 with no evasion. Infinitely chumped with every card in our deck with a Mom on the field.
Would something a bit more aggressive like this still be considered D&T?
4 Toolcraft Exemplar
4 Aether Vial
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Smuggler's Copter
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Mother of Runes
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
1 Horizon Canopy
2 Karakas
4 Ancient Den
8 Plains
The idea is that you should be able to capitalize better on your taxing strategy when you can play a T1 3/2 that make your clock much faster and what is essentially T2 3/3 flier (copter), sort of like how shop Vintage lists play nowadays.
Okay, I'm looking for some feedback. I've got a spicy list for you all.
Last time I checked, milling your opponent in legacy is bad. Cutting SoFI also seems bad.
Edit: having a crusader suited up with SoWaP is pretty bonkers... not onboard with SoBaM tho
Yeah, while Batterskull doesn't have pro-blue, it also is one of the few things that those Abrupt Decay decks can't actually get off the board. Putting all your energy into picking the right sword wardrobe seems wrong to me - pro-green doesn't add that much to the mix and they all get decayed anyway.
I think in the near future people should go hard on Mirran Crusader because so much of the removal out there is gonna be Fatal Push / Decay. Like, find a way to fit 4 in your 75. The card has always been good anyway.
Some other options specifically to deal with that Reid Duke deck:
Riftmarked Knight - pro Leovold, Abrupt Decay, Fatal Push, TNN. Suspending something on t3 way too slow in legacy, but it's still upside.
Mystic Crusader - better vs Delver decks, flies over TNN if you hit thresh.
@iatee
I don't know that I'd want to go as far as 4 (I still want some things that naturally get through TNN), but I 100% agree that Crusader's stock is going up.
Hey, all!
Very much looking forward to your new article about beating Reid Duke's TNN Sultai, Medea, as well as the results from your New New Tech list. I always love your content. I've been getting solidly crushed by the new Sultai menace, and I'm looking for many different ways to beat it.
What are everyone's thoughts on Magus of the Moat as a possible way to quell TNN Sultai? I like the fact that it's a human (I run two cavern), and immune to decay/dread of night/massacre... but I'm dubious. I wish that it was recruitable though... maybe e-tutor and moat is better? Or maybe it's just better to not get cute, load up on fliers and crusaders and try to race.
If Crusader is going up because of Decay/Push ... shouldn't Serra Avenger's stock be going down?
It would be going down except it provides the necessary evasion to go over TNN and a butt of 3, making it immune to Pyroclasm, Dread of Night and Massacre effects. TNN unfortunately stonewalls Crusader.
I know but losing a 2-drop in D&T to a 1 drop spell like fatal push is just the feel bads :( At least the other cards provide some immediate or long-term value.
it's why I never liked Serra Avenger... it beats... but that's it.
I felt the same way about you regarding Serra Avengers. I recently re-added them when I saw them in Medea's list, and I've generally been happy to see them. Sometimes you just need great beats/blocking for a great price. Also, the fact that it is resilient to the most common hate against us (dread, massacre, punishing fire) adds a lot of value. I find one of the problems is that sometimes I can't close games fast enough and people break out of the mana denial stranglehold. Serra Avenger allows me to close games efficiently, especially when equipped. I feel against the new sultai decks having the ability to push through damage consistently through a board of TNN will be critical, and avenger fills that role very well. Avenger fills that role perhaps even better than crusader, who, as has been pointed out, does not match up well against TNN.
It's not that it "doesn't match up well" against tnn, it's kinda like a goyfmate. I don't know, I'm going to trade my 3rd Recruiter out for Crusader #2 for now. Still not on board with Serra. You don't need random beats, you need tutorable beats Imo.
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This is what I wrote previously about the Serra Avenger/Crusader conundrum at the moment:
"Our flex slots are going to line up poorly against this deck. Serra Avenger flies over True-Name, but can’t defend against a Leovold well; it won’t even trade with Leovold if the opponent has a Noble Hierarch for an exalted trigger. Mirran Cruaser walls or attacks through Leovold, but is stalled by True-Name. Banisher Priest performs poorly against Leovold, and Palace Jailer is very sad in the face of True-Name. Oh…that’s not good! Furthermore, this deck is a perfect shell for a Fatal Push or two once Aether Revolt is legal, and that card is going to answer everything in the deck except Crusader."
That's how I ended up with my 2-2 split of Crusader/Avenger. I keeps my threats diverse and doesn't put my choices too far in any given direction.
I went 3-1 tonight (though I got a round 1 bye) at an EE satellite event, beating ANT, D&T, and losing to Elves. SoWaP definitely feels great in the main, and it absolutely stole game one of the mirror and my ANT opponent was forced to Therapy it away or die. The protection of SoBaM was going to be relevant in the Elves game, but my opponent gave me the ol' Null Rod. Will report in after more testing with SoBaM.
I also tried SoWaP in the main last night (kept SoFI but moved skull to the side).
Was impressed; was able to out-race another aggro deck due to lifegain (in a similar way that skull would have done) and the white protection on my creature was huge vs. a miracles mentor match-up.
As promised, my thoughts on the BUG Leovold matchup.
Hi all, I've recently got back into MtG with Death and Taxes and played in a small legacy tournament.
Meta was 2x Burn, 3x Reanimator, Dreadstill, Merfolk, Elves, Sneak and Show, Pox, something and me.
12 Plains
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
3 Karakas
4 Mother of Runes
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Flickerwisp
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Recruiter of the Guard
2 Serra Avenger
1 Sanctum Prelate
1 Palace Jailer
1 Mirran Crusader
4 Aether Vial
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
// SB
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Rest in Peace
1 Path to Exile
2 Containment Priest
2 Pithing Needle
2 Council's Judgment
1 Mirran Crusader
2 Faerie Macabre
1 Cataclysm
R1 Monoblack Pox
G1 He has turn 1 Ritual + Liliana on the play. I get Vial and Jitte, but struggle to deal with all his removal. I vial my creatures in response to Liliana discard, but he always has Smallpox/Innocent Blood/another Liliana ready afterwards and I get slowly eaten by Mishra's Factory.
G2 I start with Vial, he starts with Dread of Night. Ouch. He needles Vial, I needle Liliana and we awkwardly stare at each other for few turns because I keep drawing Flickerwisps and Thalias and he keeps drawing Lilianas. He starts chipping with Factory again and I get "impressive" board of 6 artifacts (Vial on 2,2,3, Needle, Jitte and Sword of Fire and Ice). Then I finally get a Mystic for Batterskull and grind out his removal by bouncing and replaying it.
G3 Starting with 5 min on the clock, we agree to draw.
Out: -3 StP, -1 Palace Jailer
In: +2 Pithing Needle, +2 Council's Judgement
1-1-1
R2 Elves
My opponent isn't playing traditional NO/chaos elves, but some weird Elvish Archdruid/Priest of Titania + Seedcradle Witch + Skyshroud Elf combo to get infinite sized attackers.
G1 I draw good hand against most matchups (combination of Vial, Thalia, Wasteland and Port) which happens to be terrible against Elves. He just goes off on t4 and I die.
G2 I get a much better hand with Revokers and removal, on t2 he casts Glimpse, draws one card, immediately face-palms and passes the turn. I don't quite get what happened, but I get Jitte online while he casts NO for Archdruid and scoops shortly afterwards. He then showed me he drew his Progenitus with that Glimpse (but he may have drawn it anyways on t3 if he didn't cast the Glimpse, depending on his fetch sequencing).
G3 He goes on the beatdown with Archdruids and few buffed elves, I thought he didn't have white mana ready for Seedcradle Witch, so I block it with Serra Avenger, but he untapped one of his elves with Quirion Ranger and used Birchlore Rangers to buff his Witch, killing my Avenger. But I then stabilize with Jitte once again and wipe his board, prompting his scoop.
Out: -1 Sanctum Prelate, -4 Thalia, -1 Palace Jailer, -1 Batterskull
In: +2 Ethersworn Canonist, +1 Path to Exile, +1 Cataclysm, +2 Council's Judgement, +1 Containment Priest
2-1
R3 UB Reanimator
G1 Opponent starts with revealing Chancellor, I cast Mom into it. I am lucky to get Karakas in my opening hand, so I just develop my board, holding Karakas up while my opponent does nothing with occasional cantrip in between. He reanimates Chancellor, I up my Vial to 4 and put the Chancellor into jail, getting me Monarch. I win shortly afterwards.
G2 Very back and forth game, so my memory is a little blurry. I get a mana-taxing hand with 0 graveyard hate, but with Karakas once again. He can't really play Magic for few turns, but then he Massacres my board. I bounce my Thalia and quickly rebuild with Flickerwisp and Mom to block his Chancellor. He exhumes second Chancellor, I bump Vial to 4 and jail him again. Then I attack with almost everything, not realizing he will swing back with Chancellor, taking my Monarch and getting his other Chancellor back. This was the biggest misplay of the day. My critters claim the Monarch back, timely swords deal with his Chancellors, he tries to race with Grave Titan, but I am faster.
Out: -4 Stoneforge Mystic, -3 Equipment, -1 Mirran Crusader, -1 Sanctum Prelate (most likely a mistake)
In: +1 Path to Exile, +2 Containment Priest, +2 Rest in Peace, +2 Faerie Macabre, +2 Ethersworn Canonist
2-0
G4 Merfolk
G1 I start with Mom, opponent gets Vial. Mom keeps his team at bay, but he gets Chalice for 1 when I hold 3 StP. Thankfully I have Flickerwisp ready, but I don't even need it because I rip Jitte off top and ride it to victory. He then shows me hand full of Wastelands against my 4 plains.
G2 I start with Vial which gets Mom and next turn Mystic for Jitte. Then I equip Serra Avenger and he scoops shortly after. He never saw any TNN or Jitte.
Out: -1 Mirran Crusader, -1 Sanctum Prelate, -1 Palace Jailer
In: +1 Path to Exile, +2 Council's Judgement
2-0
G5 Sneak and Show
G1 I successfully tax his mana, leaving Karakas up against any shenanigans. But he draws few Ancient Tombs and gets a Sneak Attack with 2 Petals. I have StP and Karakas ready for his next turn, so I hope he his draws are horrible. He gets Griselbrand, draws 7, cracks Petal for Emrakul with the other Petal ready if I bounce, I lose all my permanents and die.
G2 I get Mom, Karakas, Thalia and Canonist in the play, he casts EE on 2. I bounce my Thalia eot, wanting to cast Palace Jailer on my turn on nothing so I can rebuild (but I'd have to tap my Karakas). I rip Revoker off top, Vial it in play so he can't counter and defuse his Explosives. He doesn' really do anything and my critters get him.
G3 I start strong with Vial into Revoker on Sneak Attack, once again with Karakas backup. With City of Traitors, he gets enough mana to cast Jace, but I have another Revoker ready. Few Wastelands off the top seal the deal as he cannot find his Explosives in time (he told me after that he didn't have any other sweepers).
Out: -4 StP, -3 Stoneforge Mystic, -1 Mirran Crusader, -1 Jitte
In: +2 Ethersworn Canonist, +2 Pithing Needle, +2 Containment Priest, +2 Council's Judgement, +1 Path to Exile
2-1
I finished 1st with 4-0-1 record, getting some store credit. The deck was extremely consistent, Mirran Crusaders were awful, I didn't get to use Prelate to stop anything meaningful and I had no idea what to do against Pox. I want to get Gideon or two, but I wish he wasn't Standard-legal. I also need Cavern of Souls, but I'll wait for potential MM reprint. Thanks for reading!
Last edited by Swordfish; 01-29-2017 at 08:20 AM.
Nicely done.
I've been interested in tutorable beats targets that are quick to play but scary enough that they must be dealt with quickly. I was going through a box of un/Commons and found my Porcelain Legionnaires. 3/1 first strike for 2 and one phyrexian white mana. 3/1 first strike seems reasonable enough with a Jitte/Sword, and for 2 mana I thought it was worth getting some opinions.
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