The thing with Chalices is that they are also good against Burn. They can turn off Price, whereas True Believer/Aegis of the Gods just eats a bolt and they go on their merry way. If Chalice is on 2, they can't even Smash it. Futhermore, it's very easy for Storm to bounce Aegis, or just make goblins instead. Chalice makes it very difficult on both fronts.Originally Posted by itrytostorm
Find me on Twitter: @beanaman
Storm can decay chalice, same as true believer. Only TB doesn't stop our own deck and with 3 ee who cares about goblins? Honestly, couldn't care less about burn. You'll never see that late in a tournament.
How about mother of runes in the 3 flex spots? Way to protect the combo and our hate bears post board.
They usually can't Chain of Vapor or Void Snare Chalice though. I think that's the difference. There are many options to deal with Aegis/TB. Only 1 way to deal with chalice usually.
Mom can be really strong, I think. Really good against Shardless for protecting your sideboard guys.
Find me on Twitter: @beanaman
No one runs void snare, and chain is even a little rare. They've moved to truth and grip in addition to decay. Even reverent silence.
So I'm going to try my last list -3 spellfist +3 mom, and the sideboard:
2 Bridge
2 War Priest
2 Canonist
2 Revoker
2 True Believer
1 Manic Vandal
1 Peacekeeper
1 Meekstone
1 Grafdigger's
1 Tormod
So in the flex slots, I'm going to be running:
1 Grim Lavamancer
2nd Ensnaring Bridge
2nd Phyrexian Furnace (in addition to the one replacing Nihil Spellbomb.)
I'm now convinced that Phyrexian Furnace is better than Nihil Spellbomb in the main against fair matchups, based on some testing tonight. It's very relevant that Furnace can cantrip without Mox Opal (or LED) around. It provides valuable incremental advantage against Deathrites, Goyfs, Mongeese, Snapcaster Mages, etc. I COULD see the case for Scrabbling Claws, actually, if you want to point it at yourself to get rid of things in your own graveyard that are growing Goyf or about to be eaten by Deathrite. But giving your opponent the choice in their own graveyard is problematic, obviously. With Phyrexian Furnace, for example, you can catch out an unwary Reanimator player who discards their fatty to the bottom of their graveyard with Faithless Looting or Careful Study. Furnace is way better against Entomb as well, as the fatty is placed in the graveyard below Entomb. Also, with either Phyrexian Furnace or Scrabbling Claws, you can always draw your deck after getting infinite mana under the Bomberman combo since you can use LED to discard each card you draw to always have a target for the second ability. The only advantage Nihil Spellbomb has over Phyrexian Furnace is speed, since Nihil costs only 1 mana for the full-on effect and offers full-graveyard coverage against Reanimator, Dredge, or Lands. But in "fair" matchups, I think Phyrexian Furnace is better, and thus gets the nod for me in the main. In fact, I think it's good enough in some of the grindier fair matchups (Miracles and Shardless) to be worth playing two of. I don't think I can overstate how critical Snapcaster Mage is for Miracles in this matchup. And at its worst, Phyrexian Furnace is "spellbomb" number 6-7 to win with under the combo.
Also, _dk and I realized earlier that pre-board, standard Miracles lists can't beat 2 Ensnaring Bridge + Phyrexian Furnace (or Nihil Spellbomb) + Academy Ruins + Sac Artifact in play or in hand. Bridges turn off Mentor/Entreat/Snapcaster beats, Ruins + Sac Artifact allows you to keep yourself from decking after Jace ultimate, and Phyrexian Furnace exiles Council's Judgment, which they would need to flashback with Snapcaster to be able to remove the second bridge.
Moving the 2nd Bridge to the main freed up another sideboard slot, which I'm happy to put Grafdigger's Cage into:
Sideboard:
3 Enlightened Tutor
3 Chalice of the Void
1 Circle of Protection: Red
1 Pithing Needle
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Meekstone
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Ethersworn Canonist
2 War Priest of Thune
1 Manic Vandal
I've lost to Burn in big events too many times to discount it - that Circle of Protection: Red isn't going anywhere! One sideboard slot is a small price to pay to drastically turn around that matchup. Obviously the Enlightened Tutors are necessary as well, but those are in there for Storm, Reanimator, and Sneak and Show already anyways.
Last edited by Wanderlust; 01-30-2017 at 05:38 AM.
Caring about burn is a little crazy. Odds of facing burn in a 15 round tournament after round 1 have to be about 1%. With Eldrazi and Miracles leading the most played decks, they are hiding. I dislike the card disadvantage of Enlightened Tutor. Phyrexian Furnace is a cool card, but in fair matches I better be winning before activating that actually matters.
Reminder post for myself to come back here after the GP...
Nothing like being talked into a deck over dinner.
First off, we are getting two very strong cards out of Aether Revolt: Hope of Ghirapur and Walking Ballista. In this deck, Hope is like a much-easier-to-cast Xantid Swarm that turns on Mox Opal, occasionally hoses Storm, and can be tutored for with both Trinket Mage and Recruiter. Walking Ballista wins the game under Salvagers + Lion's Eye Diamond whether in hand, play, or graveyard, and has obvious applications outside of the combo. .dk alerted me to the synergy of Ballista with Basilisk Collar, which has the potential to be totally bonkers.
Great to meet you at the GP!! Hope you do decide to sleeve up Bomberman - would be great to get your feedback and suggestions.
I faced Burn in round 1 of the GP. I literally always face Burn in big events, no matter the meta. Made my opponent super salty to lose hard to CoP: Red in games 2 and 3. And that wouldn't have been possible without Enlightened Tutor. That said, I also dislike the card disadvantage of E. Tutor, which is why it only comes in for matchups where one silver bullet shuts down their plan and makes them have to dig for an answer. Would never want it against most fair decks.
I'm now seeing even more reasons to be picking these Ballista up... I'm hoping to just machine gun down all the things.
Same - lot of good times were had. No clue how you and .dk were standing up Mon morning though.
I intend to, I apparently put a copy of the deck in my 'to build' folder back a year or so ago. Having met the creator I feel it's only right to jam with it some now considering the deck has only improved with the work you/others have been putting in.
Was talking to Blitz91 on Cockatrice tonight and he came up with two very interesting lists.
He's intrigued by the fact that with Ballista, we no longer need a 1cc spell to win, so Chalice becomes a much stronger option - that led him to:
http://www.magic-ville.com/fr/decks/showdeck?ref=498288
At first glace, the bare-minimum blue count for Force of Will is worrisome.
And the other list, with Cabal Therapy:
http://www.magic-ville.com/fr/decks/...php?ref=439351
Also, here is the list I am testing with the new Aether Revolt goodies:
4 Auriok Salvagers
4 Imperial Recruiter
4 Trinket Mage
3 Hope of Ghirapur
3 Walking Ballista
4 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Engineered Explosives
4 Pyrite Spellbomb
1 Aether Spellbomb
1 Phyrexian Furnace
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
3 Mox Opal
1 Basilisk Collar
3 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
4 Cavern of Souls
1 Inventors' Fair
1 Karakas
2 Ancient Den
1 Great Furnace
3 Flooded Strand
1 Arid Mesa
1 Plains
1 Plateau
1 Tundra
1 Volcanic Island
Sideboard:
3 Chalice of the Void
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Pithing Needle
1 Meekstone
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 War Priest of Thune
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Manic Vandal
1 Circle of Protection: Red
3 Enlightened Tutor
Last edited by Wanderlust; 01-29-2017 at 09:41 PM.
You running Collar purely for the shotgun effect off Trike?
It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
Collar is not bad at making Trinket Mages and Imperial Recruiters do more work too. Still early days of testing though, it may not pan out.
Walking Ballista has been consistently awesome so far though.
Last edited by Wanderlust; 01-25-2017 at 04:44 AM.
Hey Friends
So i come here because Bomberman was longtime one of my Guilty Pleasure decks and i never really worked on it. But now since Storm gets worse and worse in the meta i think of jumping back to the good old Days. I really love the work you guys put into the deck and i sleeved it up time and time again. So i have ordered my Recruiters and am about tho let the Pixelhero out of the Closet.
I hope i can help making the deck better and bomb some people.
Greetings ElDorte
Something I just thought about with the new combo, DRS can eat Ballista in the very early stages of the combo wherebye Bomb is immune. Has that come up?
It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
That hasn't come up for me yet, but it is a good point. I suppose you might want to hold back on Ballista against DRS decks and either use a spell bomb or make a 2/2 ballista to shoot the DRS.
/edit
Realized I should probably say a bit more about my AER testing so far. Both Hope of Ghirapur as well as Walking Ballista have been very strong for me. I'm currently up to running 3 of both. There is a strong argument to be made to keep all of the spell bombs still, as they help turn on Mox Opal more easily than Walking Ballista does.
Basilisk Collar hasn't really come up for me much yet - the biggest thing it's done is gain me some life from attacking Trinket Mages, Imperial Recruiters, and Hope of Ghirapur.
I've also been testing out a 1 of arcbound ravager - however that has never come up. I've never wanted to grab it with Imperial Recruiter either - it's likely on the chopping block.
Cranial Plating though seems strong to me again. Having it equipped to a Hope of Ghirapur is pretty great - turns it into a very real threat in addition to protection.
Find me on Twitter: @beanaman
Ravager I think is a bit like Spellskite in Painter, you can see the reason it's there, but you will almost never actually want to fetch it.
Plating is interesting, but you can't fetch it with Mage. That's a let down. Can't argue against the cards power though.
It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
Yeah, that part definitely sucks. But when running a 2 of with all of the shuffle effects that we have and top, we can find it with some consistency. May not be correct though - might be better of just running more Walking Ballista and Hope of Ghirapur.
Find me on Twitter: @beanaman
Haven't tested this yet, waiting on my preorders to arrive. (Yay living in Australia...) I think the plan may be to just run 4 Hope. If you have 3 mana, a hope in the bin and a Salvager on the table, that's a near hard lock against a lot of the format.
It is better to ask and look stupid then keep your mouth shut and remain so.
I hope your afterlife is filled with eternal torment.
Fuck. Which one of my quotes do I drop for this?
Yes - that may be correct. In most of the games I've had Hope on board it's an all-star. Even more-so when I've had Salvagers. Good luck with testing - looking forward to seeing what you find!
Find me on Twitter: @beanaman
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