[Primer] R/G Lands

[Benama9]

The punishing fire question will really depend on what the game state is like. If you're playing against a creature deck, then it's worth bringing both back probably as you may need to cast it twice without using the grove to return. After that, it becomes a question of how much mana you have. Using a single grove activation and a Taiga to return a second fire will deal out more damage faster in the long run as they're gaining 1 life for 4 damage, as opposed to 2 damage and 1 life. But if you're constricted on mana then you can return just a single fire to 'flame jab' them and keep other options open.

I can't remember the video of Reid making this play as mentioned above, but if he's letting the lands untap then wasting in upkeep I don't understand that either. If they're tapped out it's better to waste then and there imo, unless someone else can enlighten me? But if they're untapped, then waste in their upkeep as they may really need that land and do a trick like cast a Brainstorm then daze it to save the land. Here you're making them use the mana for the Brainstorm on their turn, which is very relevant.

Yeah that makes sense.

On a different note, I'm going to purchase my Tabernacle soon. Do you know whether there is any store in Europe à la SCG or Hareruya where I would be 100% sure it isn't fake? I usually buy my cards in MKM, but I feel is too risky to buy such an expensive card there.

Thanks.

[hovercraft]

There are no big tournaments where I am, just LGS games so I'm fine playing without Tabernacle! Some weeks our LGS allows proxies anyway. Thanks for the responses.

[Dominic Pain]

I ended up waiting to get my Tabernacle until I could buy it in person at a GP. Especially on a purchase like that, it's nice to be able to see the exact condition the card is in + not have to worry about it getting lost in the mail. Ended up getting a great deal on it too

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[Benama9]

I ended up waiting to get my Tabernacle until I could buy it in person at a GP. Especially on a purchase like that, it's nice to be able to see the exact condition the card is in + not have to worry about it getting lost in the mail. Ended up getting a great deal on it too

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Actually this year there is a GP in Barcelona, my hometown, but it's not a Legacy one. Do you know whether in these events they have Legacy staples? Do you need to pay some kind of entry fee just to buy cards?

If not, may be the MKM or BoM tournaments could be an option. Has anyone here ever participated in these events? How are the prices?

Thanks.

[Chatto]

Actually this year there is a GP in Barcelona, my hometown, but it's not a Legacy one. Do you know whether in these events they have Legacy staples? Do you need to pay some kind of entry fee just to buy cards?

If not, may be the MKM or BoM tournaments could be an option. Has anyone here ever participated in these events? How are the prices?

Thanks.

Vendors at a GP tend to have all cards you want, but of course will focus on the format first. If you know who will attend, you should contact them, and ask them for cards you would like to purchase. Entry to a GP is normally free, but participating is not.

I bought my Tabernacle online via MKM, right after Kurt Spiess won his SCG tournament. It was cheap in comparison with today's prices, and passed the light-test etc, so definately no fake, but to be honest you never know.

Regarding builds with or without Tabernacle, or other staples: a build without P-Fire has proven itself. A build without Tabernacle? I never heard of it. Of course it's possible, so give it a go. Still, Tabernacle is essential in an open field, where there are a lot of creature-based decks (even at, or especially at a LGS), so I think proxy first (which you can do), and buy later. There's just no maybe, but rather when. One thing though: I have to admitted you don't always go for Tabernacle, because you have a fast combo

@ Ingo: thanks

[Crimhead]

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I can't remember the video of Reid making this play as mentioned above, but if he's letting the lands untap then wasting in upkeep I don't understand that either. If they're tapped out it's better to waste then and there imo, unless someone else can enlighten me? But if they're untapped, then waste in their upkeep as they may really need that land and do a trick like cast a Brainstorm then daze it to save the land. Here you're making them use the mana for the Brainstorm on their turn, which is very relevant.

Help me understand this. That mana you force them to spend on their turn is mana they wouldn't have had in the first place if you'd Wasted them on your own turn. Saving it for the upkeep doesn't actually reduce the amount of mana they have to work with that turn. Im not understanding this play.

[Whitefaces]

Help me understand this. That mana you force them to spend on their turn is mana they wouldn't have had in the first place if you'd Wasted them on your own turn. Saving it for the upkeep doesn't actually reduce the amount of mana they have to work with that turn. Im not understanding this play.

In that example they'd need to also pay one for the Daze to resolve the Brainstorm, so you're tying up a mana on their turn by doing it in upkeep. Alternatively, they may have a 2cmc+ spell to cast and Daze, like BUG with a Decay or something. Stifle is another reason to do it on upkeep. These scenarios don't come up too much, but you don't lose anything by opening the window for them.

[Claymore]

Quick search led to an article by Jacob Wilson which mentioned this:

Never use Wasteland in your opponent's end step, your draw step will yield more information as to whether you want to use the Wasteland as land destruction or as mana. If you use Wasteland in your own draw step on an opponent's untapped land the mana pool will empty before your main phase. The other time to use Wasteland is in your opponent's upkeep step: this will cause your opponent to make decisions before drawing a card and use mana on his/her turn rather than on yours

Using Wasted during your own draw step is pretty interesting.

[Whitefaces]

Quick search led to an article by Jacob Wilson which mentioned this:

Never use Wasteland in your opponent's end step, your draw step will yield more information as to whether you want to use the Wasteland as land destruction or as mana. If you use Wasteland in your own draw step on an opponent's untapped land the mana pool will empty before your main phase. The other time to use Wasteland is in your opponent's upkeep step: this will cause your opponent to make decisions before drawing a card and use mana on his/her turn rather than on yours

Using Wasteland during your own draw step is pretty interesting.

Very interesting, I'd never considered that, quite relevant for decks that play haste creatures, equipment or something that will impact the board before moving to combat. The format continues to fascinate and surprise, even after years of playing it!

[Benama9]

Quick search led to an article by Jacob Wilson which mentioned this:



Using Wasted during your own draw step is pretty interesting.

Indeed. However my biggest doubt is: what if the opponent is tapped? As someone mentioned before, and I agree, I see very few reasons to pass the turn and waste in opponent's upkeep ( and therefore letting the opponent make use of one extra land in his upkeep ), but may be someone has an explanation.

[MrDieth]

I was tinkering with some idea's, has anyone tried a blue splash for 4 cunning wishes in the deck ? As a catch all solution to everything ( krosan grip's, ancient grudge, sudden shock, firestorm etc... )

[heckler]

Think about it this way (when to wasteland); one statement cannot possibly cover all the permutations of possible game play. Much like writing, you learn these generalized rules for how to do it but also learn why it is done that way, so you can identify the times when you need to break them for a specific purpose.

[filln]

I was tinkering with some idea's, has anyone tried a blue splash for 4 cunning wishes in the deck ? As a catch all solution to everything ( krosan grip's, ancient grudge, sudden shock, firestorm etc... )

I like the creativity. I do think though that Cunning Wish is a bit clunky and should you want to approach it from a toolbox style with a blue splash that RUG Lands is the optimal route. Utilizing an uncounterable tutor (Tolaria West) for combo pieces or board wipe (Engineered Explosives) that you can recur using Academy Ruins will answer most of the problems that K-Grip, Grudge, Sudden Shock, and Firestorm would be trying to answer.

[UseLess]

Is there anywhere I can find some general up-to-date information regarding good/bad matchups and sideboard choices? I'm interested in picking up David Long's RGb lands version and I'd like to do some reading to get a theoretical feel for the deck to aid me with playtesting. Without the need for ports and groves, this deck is actually within a budget range that I'm willing to spend on it and I've always loved lands, so now I actually want to try it! Unfortunately the primer here is really outdated, so that was only of limited use as a starting point. One of my main questions is regarding Tireless Tracker in the board: what is its purpose (to mitigate graveyard hate?) and in what matchups is it brought in?

[Chatto]

Is there anywhere I can find some general up-to-date information regarding good/bad matchups and sideboard choices? I'm interested in picking up David Long's RGb lands version and I'd like to do some reading to get a theoretical feel for the deck to aid me with playtesting. Without the need for ports and groves, this deck is actually within a budget range that I'm willing to spend on it and I've always loved lands, so now I actually want to try it! Unfortunately the primer here is really outdated, so that was only of limited use as a starting point. One of my main questions is regarding Tireless Tracker in the board: what is its purpose (to mitigate graveyard hate?) and in what matchups is it brought in?

It seems only like yesterday that we discussed this deck in the N&D-section. Started to play Turbo Depths, and gradually turned to RGCL. Now you come along, pointing out that the thread is outdated, and I'm feeling old

That being said, it does miss some much-needed up-to-date information. I would say, PM Dice.

Regarding TT: I almost always board them in some more grindier MU's. It helps against GY-hate, is a fast clock, and gives you card-advantage.

I had friends over for Legacy-testing, and some drinks on friday-night, and it occured to me that I always board in four K-Grip, and four TT. The rest of my sb is optional, and MU-specific, but those eight cards are just routine.

[The_Dingo]

Is there anywhere I can find some general up-to-date information regarding good/bad matchups and sideboard choices? I'm interested in picking up David Long's RGb lands version and I'd like to do some reading to get a theoretical feel for the deck to aid me with playtesting. Without the need for ports and groves, this deck is actually within a budget range that I'm willing to spend on it and I've always loved lands, so now I actually want to try it! Unfortunately the primer here is really outdated, so that was only of limited use as a starting point. One of my main questions is regarding Tireless Tracker in the board: what is its purpose (to mitigate graveyard hate?) and in what matchups is it brought in?

Postboard our opponents are often bringing in hate like surgical, RiP, pithing needle, blood moon etc and cutting removal for it. Tireless tracker sidesteps many of these hateful hateful cards and lets us play a semi-normal game of magic. Tracker provides an additional CA engine for our deck when loam or P fire are in danger of being surgicaled or when we don't have access to our GY.

I also find myself bringing in the trackers to try and establish a consistent clock against combo.

Basically, tracker beats win games because opponents trade removal spells for GY or land hate in the post board games.

[djxstream]

Basically, tracker beats win games because opponents trade removal spells for GY or land hate in the post board games.

One of my most satisfying plays I can do post board with this deck is watch a blood moon get dropped. Then next turn play a tracker and let those mountains pop some clues and crush them.

[Chatto]

One of my most satisfying plays I can do post board with this deck is watch a blood moon get dropped. Then next turn play a tracker and let those mountains pop some clues and crush them.

Aaah yes! Blood Moon helped me win the third game vs SnS... It was awesome!

[Ciubulu]

Is there anywhere I can find some general up-to-date information regarding good/bad matchups and sideboard choices? I'm interested in picking up David Long's RGb lands version and I'd like to do some reading to get a theoretical feel for the deck to aid me with playtesting. Without the need for ports and groves, this deck is actually within a budget range that I'm willing to spend on it and I've always loved lands, so now I actually want to try it! Unfortunately the primer here is really outdated, so that was only of limited use as a starting point. One of my main questions is regarding Tireless Tracker in the board: what is its purpose (to mitigate graveyard hate?) and in what matchups is it brought in?

I've tested many versions of this deck but I'm still convinced that the straight rg build is fairly superior to the rgb one. If you like this kind of decks you should try 4c loam.

About the good/bad mu i think is a good idea to update: we have new tools main deck (quarters) and in our sideboard (trackers & nissa) and we have to face "new" threats like a truckload of surgical extractions, sanctum prelates and the scary br reanimator deck...

[Alexeezay]

True, Surgical Extraction and even Faerie Macabre see a huge amount of play right now. This is why I put a Crucible in my sideboard.
Thoughts on Burgeoning?