I was using Pia and Kiran and Quicksmith Rebel up until 2 days ago and I just went back to a more streamlined version. My winning % reflected it was a positive change. Regent is the best 4 drop and hopefully one day we will get a great 4 drop. Seriously I went full circle over the last month and am back at what I first was playing before toying around.Originally Posted by CovenantElite30
Have some events over the next 2 weeks and here is what I will be playing with zero changes.
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Sin Prodder
4 Simian Spirit Guide
3 Thunderbreak Regent
1 Rolling Earthquake
3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
3 Fiery Confluence
4 Blood Moon
3 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox
11 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
3 Faerie Macabre
2 Sudden Shock
2 Pyroblast
2 Sulfur Elemental
2 Pyrokinesis
2 Dragon's Claws
1 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Phyrexian Revoker
Went 4-0 in local 9 player tournament today with this dragonless list:
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
3 Magus of the Moon
1 Phyrexian Revoker (had only 3 Magus)
4 Sin Prodder
4 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Quicksmith Rebel (got 0 Thunderbreak Regent and decided that any Nalaars are just much worse than Rabblemaster or Rebel)
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
3 Fiery Confluence
1 Starstorm (had only 3 Fiery Confluence)
4 Blood Moon
3 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox
11 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
3 Faerie Macabre
2 Sudden Shock
2 Pyroblast
3 Sulfur Elemental
1 Pyrokinesis
2 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Chaos Warp
R1 vs Shardless BUG, win coin flip, win 2-0 with g1 t1 magus and g2 quick moon effect + Chandra
R2 vs Infect, win coin flip, win 2-1 with g1 t1 moon effect, g3 opponent mulls to 5 and I get t1 moon effect
R3 vs Charbelcher, lose coin flip, win 2-1 with t1 Trinisphere g2 and t1 Revoker in g3
R4 vs Grixis delver, lose coin flip, win 2-1 with g1 Moon effects, g3 Chandra and Chalice 1
Thoughts:
+ Chandra and Sin Prodder were awesome.
+ md Trinisphere was awesome.
+ SB Pyrokinesis was awesome. There should be 2-3 in the sb.
+ 11th Mountain was awesome.
+/- Revoker was awesome, but I would prefer it as 1-2of in the sb. Should be upgraded to 4th Magus MD.
+/- Quicksmith Rebel was OK but I would prefer it as 0-1 of md.
+/- I did occasionally draw into double Chandra, but playing the second one to get rid of the first or pitching one to mox always felt ok.
- Starstorm was used only for cycling and pitching to Mox. Should be upgraded to 4th Confluence or Rolling Earthquake md. Probably Earthquake for 1-outer vs t1 goblin token swarm.
- I never casted any pyroblasts before getting the Chandra emblem, at which point they were not relevant anymore.
- I never wanted to cast Ensnaring Bridge even after drawing them.
- I dodged reanimator MU so never boarded in macabres.
- I dodged D&T MU so never boarded in Sulfur Elemental. 3 slots seems too much.
Potential md filler card: 1-2 Manamorphose. This would "thin the deck" and allow us to turn a colorless mana from Tomb/City into a red mana.
Would probably want to run something like this:
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
4 Magus of the Moon
4 Sin Prodder
4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
3 Fiery Confluence
1 Rolling Earthquake or 4th Fiery Confluence
4 Blood Moon
3 Flex slots: Any split of Manamorphose, Tsabo's Web, cmc4 creature(s) of choice (0-1 Quicksmith Rebel) and 3rd Trinisphere.
2 Trinisphere
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Chrome Mox
11 Mountain
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
SB
1 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Faerie Macabre
2 Sudden Shock
2 Pyroblast
2 Sulfur Elemental
2 Pyrokinesis
1 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Flex slots:
2nd Phyrexian Revoker or Ensnaring Bridge or Winter Orb or 3rd Faerie Macabre or Chaos Warp or Sudden Demise or Aftershock or 3rd Pyrokinesis or Ratchet Bomb or Umezawa's Jitte or Ricochet Trap or Stingscourger or Goblin Sharpshooter or Confusion in the Ranks or Dragon's Claw or Ali from Cairo or Fortune Thief
Did change the 2 Dragons Claws back to Thorn and Revoker. I am debating going up on Sulfur Elementals as its so universally good at the very least just being semi uncounterable.
Went 4-0 today.
Round 1: Elves - 2-1
Round 2: Maverick - 2-1 (mull to 3 and almost won the loss)
Round 3: Miracles - 2-0
Round 4: Bug Delver - 2-1 (lose game 1 on draw to turn 1 delver and had 3 turns at one point and hit lands)
General notes: 3 different times today I drew 5 straight lands/Mox+ *won 1 of those vs Miracles and others were loses* very bad variance.
Rolling Earthquake is boss.
Online win % has been very high as well.
Only change I would consider would be -1 Thorn for +1 Sulfur but really not sure its needed and not going to change yet but Sulfur been so good way to many times to count.
Thundebreak is also very good and the prerelease promo is sexy but no where as sexy as Prodder if that means anything :).
I may be playing this deck at the SCG Open in Mass in April. What do you guys think as far as paper meta for this deck?
Should I play dragons in main or something else?
I expect to see a lot of reanimater.
Paper meta:
- The recent rise in BUG popularity (delver, shardless and non-delver non-shardless midrange) benefits this deck greatly.
- Fast combo decks can be difficult to deal with if you lose the coin flip. Rolling Earthquake randomly helps against tokens. Additionally, the more Trinisphere, Thorn of Amethyst and Phyrexian Revoker (naming e.g. Goblin Charbelcher, Sneak Attack or Griselbrand) you run in the 75, the better those MUs become.
- Death & Taxes can be a grindy and difficult MU. The more Sulfur Elemental and Pyrokinesis you can afford to run in your 75, the better.
- Faerie Macabre is your best card against Br Reanimator.
Dragons vs. something else: Personally, those 3 flex slots we have in the MD do not make a huge difference in most cases. Preferably, you would run either a win con which survives Lightning Bolt (e.g. Thunderbreak Regent, Hanweir Watchkeep, Stormbreath Dragon), card advantage generators (e.g. Quicksmith Rebel) or a card which either replaces itself or filters (e.g. Smuggler's Copter, Manamorphose, Tsabo's Web).
For corner case scenarios:
- Thunderbreak Regent, Quicksmith Rebel and Stormbreath Dragon deal with an opposing delver
- Thunderbreak Regent, Quicksmith Rebel and Stormbreath Dragon can win through a Moat
- Thunderbreak regent and Quicksmith Rebel can win through Maze of Ith
- Stormbreath Dragon can attack through D&T and angel tokens
- Thunderbreak Regent, Stormbreath Dragon and Hanweir Watchkeep survive a Lightning Bolt
Great summary. I haven't seen anyone play Hanweir Watchkeep but it definitely looks interesting. The more recent lists I've seen online haven't being playing Thunderbreak Regent. I'm not sure if I agree with this but they seem to be having success. But again Quicksmith Rebel seems enticing if your playing main deck trinisphere.
Won my weekly event with KeeperX's list from the previous page.
Round 1 vs Merfolk:
Lots of dead cards in my deck (8 moons) but I manage to get there with Sin Prodder and Regent flying over his threats.
2-0, 1-0
Round 2 vs Elves:
Game 1 I land a turn 1 moon effect, followed by a Rabblemaster. He's forced to chump with Deathrite Shaman, which effectively locks him out of green mana. Game 2 I durdle too much and get overwhelmed by Elves. Abrupt Decay was a beating. Game 3 I land an early Chalice on 1, followed by double moon and eventually Chandra emblem him to death.
2-1, 2-0
Round 3 ID to split prize
Deck seems great. Turn 1 Chalice/Moon/Trinisphere just gives you so many free wins. Chandra is amazing, and Sin Prodder worked well as a poor man's Dark Confidant. Menace was actually very relevant.
Hanweir Watchkeep used to be a md staple in Werewolf Stompy:
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles...-stompy-legacy
Moggcatcher + md Kiki-Jiki + md Goblin Settler + sb Goblin Sharpshooter toolbox engine would turn us into Goblin Stompy:
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/246197#online
Qal Sisma Behemoth and Koth of the Hammer are old-school / niche options into last md flex slots.
Basically, Fiery Confluence, Sin Prodder and the new Chandra are so good that there is no longer "Dragon Stompy", "Goblin Stompy" or "Werewolf Stompy" with distinctive, slightly synergous but nevertheless awkward creature packages. All of those lists pretty much tossed out 10-12 of their weakest cards for 3-4 Confluence, 3-4 Chandra and 4 Prodder to become a homogenous "monored stompy" decklist. Compared to the decklist differences of the past, choosing Thunderbreak Regent vs. Smuggler's Copter vs. Quicksmith Rebel vs. whatever filler card does not essentially make much of a difference. We are all essentially playing the same 52-56 cards list md now. IMO, you could even smuggle in a couple Phyrexian Revoker into those couple last md slots (naming g1 DRS, Vial, LED, Stoneforge Mystic, Mother of Runes, Sensei's Divining Top) to gain more sb slots and still be equally successful with the deck performance.
This is the great part I have said a few times other places. The deck is like 50 cards locked in and the other 10 are preference and same with the sideboard. This is great for overall deck development. Also this is making weekly placings at many events and rightfully so. I have also said that Eldrazi is a 2016 model of Chalice and this is the 2017 model because it can steal games and still win as consistently as the Draz.
This is subjective 100%. I play on MTGO but not leagues because Burn is such a bad matchup and you see most of them having to run 4 anti-burn cards and its for that reason.
I like Quicksmith and Regent.
I just like Regent slightly better right now personally.
I agree with all the delver running around now have the flyer is really nice.
What's your opinion on why people have stopped playing Cavern of Souls?
Granted my version of the deck was playing more humans. But still getting a uncounterable blood out seems to be good?
- Getting RR for Chandra and Fiery Confluence, which are some of the best cards in our deck now
- Devil Sin Prodder, Goblin Rabblemaster, Simian Spirit Guide (yes we do hardcast the ape quite often), Human Magus of the Moon, Dragon Thunderbreak Regent. Sol land + Cavern opening hand (2 lands total) is much more awakward than Sol land + Mountain. Uncounterable Magus is probably the best use for Cavern, but if the opponent Lightning Bolts it down, we might be left with triple colorless mana instead of 2R and no more humans.
Btw, if someone wants to experiment with a "light goblins package" in the MD flex slots, you could try:
2x Moggcatcher
1x Kiki-Jiki
1x Goblin Settler
T1-2: Durdle with Chalice, Moon, Trinisphere, Sol lands
T3: Play Moggcatcher
T4: Moggcatcher gets Goblin Settler to blow up a basic land
T5: Moggcatcher gets Kiki-Jiki, Kiki-Jiki makes a copy of Goblin Settler to blow up a basic land
T6+: Kiki-Jiki makes a copy of Goblin Settler to blow up a basic land, Moggcatcher gets a Rabblemaster
+ Goblin Settler is excellent at color screwing and mana denial in combination with Moon effects and Trinisphere
+ Kiki-Jiki has multiple uses, e.g. copying Sin Prodder in opponent's end step to get an extra upkeep "draw"
+ Moggcatcher allows us to run niche/toolbox options in the 75, like Goblin Sharpshooter, Tuk-tuk Scrapper and Stingscourger
+ Unanswered Moggcatcher can snowball the game for us
- 2RRR Kiki-Jiki can be problematic to hard cast
- Kiki-Jiki is useless into an empty board
- The goblin package does not deal with opposing flyers or Moat
- Moggcatcher can be shut down by Lightning Bolt ( Thunderbreak Regent is not)
- Moggcatcher can be shut down by Phyrexian Revoker (Thunderbreak Regent is not)
- Drawing into multiple Moggcatchers can be bad because they take up 3 mana to activate
I agree that chandra and fiery confluence are amazing and everyone should be playing at least 3 of each between main and sideboard.
I don't agree that much about sin prodder. I mean, it's a good card, but not a staple in my opinion, and i personally prefer hanweir garrison, for the simple fact that garrison is like rabblemaster: he has to be answered immediately or you will bury opponents with tokens. Sin prodder is not a must answer, they can afford to leave him on the battlefield for a couple turns. Menace is relevant, but so is being an x/2 rather than an x/3 when you face punishing fire.
I am also a big fan of pia and kiran. They help stabilize if you're behind, they can kill creatures or shoot irrelevant artifacts to the face. I don't know if they're better than thunderbreak, but since i play ensnaring bridge they definitely belong in my list. I'm quite sure they're better than quicksmith rebel, though.
I have personally faced 0 Punishing Fire decks within the past 5 years in my paper metagame, so I am biased in my x/2 preference.
My personal dislike with Pia and Kiran is that typically, you won't have the activation mana the turn you play it (whereas Quicksmith Rebel activates an artifact immediately), and spending the activation mana on future turns slows down the development of the board by having less mana for playing all the extra cards drawn from Sin Prodder triggers. For three mana, you could be tutoring Goblin Rabblemasters with Moggcatchers instead of sacrificing your permanents. Again, the x/2 of Quicksmith has never been a relevant downside for me and I am typically not running Ensnaring Bridge, so I am biased here.
In my list from last year I was playing hanweir garrison over Sin Prodder and using Smuggler's Copter for card advantage.
This was good with cavern because I had 8 humans in the deck which made it worth running. hanweir garrison blocks a of creatures surprisingly.
I haven't been testing much playing Sin Prodder over hanweir garrison, but I get the idea.
I get that Hanweir Garrison & Pia and Kiran Nalaar act as defensive walls to slow down the opponent, aiming to turn the game into a long one. This has nice synergy with using Chandra to grind out a slow yet unevitable win.
Sin Prodder is the exact opposite, wanting the game to go short by pressuring the opponent with upkeep trigger damage + Menace combat damage. If you manage to start off the game with T1 Moon effect or Trinisphere, T2 Sin Prodder, the opponent will have an extremely difficult time to find answers to the Moon effect or Trinisphere in time before becoming killed or buried with card advantage from Sin Prodder.
Think new Chandra is very good in deck. Here are 2 different builds that recently went 5-0 in leagues online https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/583826#online and https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/583818#online
Question to the group. What are the most difficult matchups for this deck and should you pack sideboard hate for it or ignore the matchup? I was thinking burn and show N tell are probably the two worst. Reanimator is probably a close 3rd. I know I run 4 Leyline for the reanimator matchup and I run 2 Ashen Ride for the show N tell matchup. But burn I just hope I get a chalice out with a Trinisphere and hope for the best.
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Burn, Merfolk, super fast combo decks (Belcher, Oops, T1 Reanimator / Tin Fins), any budget deck operating with basic lands (e.g. monoblue delver), Elves. Burn, Merfolk and monocolored budget decks I choose to ignore. Against super fast combo decks, I hope to win the coin flip and have Phyrexian Revoker + Thorn of Amethyst + Fearie Macabre SB. Elves MU will depend on whether they run Natural Order or not, and how much SB space you want to allocate.
Quick and Small Tournie report:
Round 1: Burn 0-2
RIP me, drew no chalices or Trini and had an Ancient Tomb both games. It is what it is.
Round 2: ANT Storm 2-0
Kept a hand of 3 lands, Trinisphere and 2 Blood Moons. He G Probes Into Cabal naming Blood moon because he only had duel lands in hand. He lost to Trinisphere. Game 2, Leyline. I get Duress'd, but he can't take the magus ;). Turn 1 Magus, his only land was Bayou. This feels like a decent match up most of the time, but i guess they can take your lock piece and just go off.
Round 3: Mentor Miracles 2-0
He was fairly new and was borrowing the deck off a friend. He lost game 1 to a Turn 1 chalice as he had a hand of one drops. Game 2 was more drawn out, but he made a few errors such as forgetting he could hard cast FoW my only threat, and he kept brainstorming with JTMS while my hand was empty. Beats eventually got there.
Round 4: DnT 2-1
A matchup I had been wanting to avoid all day. Game 1 he does his thing and I just cant keep up. Game 2, I get a fast start with Sulfur Elementals and Sin Prodders and overwhelm him with board presence. Game 3 was the intense match. I only own 1 Ensnaring Bridge, and I drew it at a really good time. It stalled the game out for a long time, and I was slowly stacking up Sulfurs and Prodders. The one of Quicksmith Rebel I was trying out did so much work, as I slowly pinged him down behind my bridge with my chalice. At one point he played a Revoker naming Chalice of the Void, but I soon found a sudden shock to keep the pings going. He managed to not draw Recruiter of the Guard or Flicker wisp, which was very good for me. I will now definitely be buying more Bridges for future games.
Overall decent result, ended 3rd because someone drew their match. Played the current standard list, but instead of x3 Thunderbreak Regent, I was trying x1 Pia and Kiran, 1x Quicksmith Rebel, and a 3rd Trinisphere. Make me think we should stop calling it Dragon Stompy? Maybe 8 Moon. But until then, Dragon Stompy is an awesome deck right now and I'm having great fun with it.
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