Originally Posted by metronome2charisma
So i'm changing some stuff.
md
-1 metamorph.
-2 thorn
+1 jitte
+1 vyrn wingmare
+1 Thalia Guarding of Thraben
SB i'm changing
-1 smokestacks
-1 spation contortion
+2 norn annex
1st place at 95-player event:
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=14911&f=LE
Containment Priest mainboard and Smuggler's Copter. No copies of Palace Jailer which imo is correct in the given meta and the reason I've not played this deck recently.
Nice result. I still like Palace Jailer, but you can't support both playset smasher and Jailer unless you have a meta without manadeanial. I like 2:2, smasher can be cc4 if you have eldrazi Tempel online but overall without eldrazi manabase (eye of ugin) playset smasher was to cluncky for me (it maybe okay if you can pitch them into copter).
Containment Priest main worked for me too (december build).
TEAM MtG Berlin
I agree. 4 Smasher seems too much. I'm not sure I'd play Jailer at all until TNN-upswing dies off. I also don't like the Revokers, but I can't argue with their results.
Last edited by Kaono; 03-09-2017 at 10:03 AM.
He's playing 3 City of Traitors to support it. Smasher is one of the best cards in the deck, so I can understand playing the full set.
The interesting change here is the Copter, and no maindeck removal besides Jitte/Displacer.
Gideon in the SB is a metagame upgrade on Palace Jailer as you guys mentioned. The Armageddon seems sorta random though, when Winter Orb combos better with the deck.
Last edited by keys; 03-09-2017 at 09:27 AM.
Damn, that list looks real smooth and I'll probs jump on something similar to that too. The numbers all seem really good - 3 diamonds, 2 copter, some Jitte, though I think I'd trim the 4th smasher for either a removal spell. I might also trim the 3rd Karakas (esp. with MD Priest) and 3rd City for 4th Cavern and 4th Wasteland.
That being said, with TNN so big right now I think Smasher will always be getting the nod over Jailer. We desperately want to trample through for those last points.
On the topic of Winter Orb, how have we found the card? It's been in and out of my sideboards and has ranged from excellent to "eh". It's power with THC is obvious, but I'd just like to hear some feedback.
It's been a mainstay in my SB and I'm always pleased with it, but never blown away by it. It's good vs the MUs we'd expect (Miracles, 12Post, Lands, etc) but never all that great because they're siding in artifact hate anyway. I could see cutting them for something like Gideon AoZ that's harder to answer, but Gideon isn't exactly great vs 12Post or Lands. I've been content with having a middling card like Orb that will eat some hate as a trade off for it being relevant in many more matchups.
I think 3 diamonds 25 land is about as standard as it gets for this deck. An acquaintance surprised me by playing this deck at our weekly legacy event and was running 4/25 and really disliked it.
I could see relegating Jailer completely to the SB (I have 1/1 split currently) in favor of more Smashers, but I would rather not play the deck at all than play it without Jailer. Plus I think Storm has been on the upswing to counteract the TNNs running around which means this deck is about to get better. Such a pendulum meta, seems to vacillate quickly among BUG -> Storm -> Chalice decks.
I've seen an upswing in burn to take advantage of all the greedy bug decks too, how do people find that MU? Have I just been getting unlucky? I feel like with out copious basics, Thalia, Chalice, and big dudes it shouldn't be an issue. I side in 2 Blessed Alliance and run SFM/BS/Jitte main.
I really like Peter Tragos's list from above, but it needs a few small tweaks. I asked Peter about the list, and he said the 2 Gideons in the board were too hard to cast, which is understandable. I think they could be replaced by 2 Orzhov Pontiff to help with TNN, Grixis, D&T, and Elves.
How many black sources do you need to run Pontiff? We can do -1 City of Traitors, +1 Cavern of Souls. That gives us 7 black sources with the 3 Mox Diamonds. Is the 4th Diamond necessary?
Other options for these 2 slots are Palace Jailer, Fairgrounds Warden, Holy Light or Blessed Alliance.
I'm also unimpressed by Armageddon. I think that could be a Winter Orb, Pithing Needle, or the 3rd Thorn.
My take on thalia stompy seems to be a bit different than those of this community. I'd just like to give my reasons for some of my deviant choices...
8 basic plains over wasteland: the main reason to play this over colorless eldrazi is that it's less susceptible to wastland lock/bloodmoon. Couple this with the fact that the best 3-drops areand that the main reason this deck fails to operate is lack of white sources, it should be obvious why more basic plains is the right choice.
Only 3 displacers: while displacer is straight up bonkers in so many matchups, it's bad in multiples and bad against miracles, storm, and TNN/Leovold BUG
2 mirran crusader maindeck? YES! what a beater he is... do you know the clock an equipped crusader provides? #math
No THC - Thalia 2.0 isn't horrible, but what would you take out to put her in? Many people don't run stoneforge, but that's the only form of card advantage this deck has. I also feel that equipment aligns perfectly with this decks strategy to have one or two very powerful threats.
25 Land
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Karakas
2 City of Traitors
8 Snow-Covered Plains
24 Creature
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Thought-Knot Seer
3 Eldrazi Displacer
3 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Reality Smasher
2 Mirran Crusader
1 Sanctum Prelate
11 Artifact
1 Batterskull
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Mox Diamond
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
15 Sideboard
2 Thorn of Amethyst
3 Rest in Peace
1 Sanctum Prelate
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Council's Judgment
2 Containment Priest
Here's how I'm siding in a few matchups:
Miracles
+2 Thorn
+1 Prelate
+3 Council's
-3 Displacers
-2 Crusaders
-1 Jitte
GY Decks (Reanimator, Dredge, Oops all cheese ect...)
+2 Thorn
+3 RIP
+2 Containment
+1 Prelate
+1 Council's
-4 SFM
-3 Equip.
-2 Crusader
BUG - There are tons of BUG variants at the moment - another reason for maindeck crusaders.
-4 Chalice (abrupt decay. also the main threats are 3 drops)
+4 StP
+3 Council's (TNN/Leo & all around good card)
-3 Revoker Enough activated abilities would warrant keeping revoker (i.e. Liliana, jitte, deathrite)
Enough GY creatures would warrant bringing in RIP (i.e. angler, goyf, deathrite)
If you followed the thread from the beginning you would see that i always run Pontiff. 4x Cavern and 4x Mox and never had the issue to not cast him in a critical situation. If you need him against Wasteland.decks, you will not use a Cavern in most cases. Each opponent will try to attack Ancient Tomb and Eldrazi Tempel to prevent you to ramp into bigger creatures. Pontiff as a pair of sideboard cards should not be the reason to play more non-basics (besides the playset cavern - never touch this!), because basic Plains are a big upside compared to colorless eldrazi lists if you fight wastelands, blood moon etc.
@WW non-creature Mana, i think Peter is right here. I also tried Elspeth/Gideon and sometimes it is ok (lategame bomb) and sometimes you can't cast them because cavern is only for creatures (on the other side Palace Jailer/Pontiff will work thanks to Cavern-Human)
@TNN Do you all fear the merfolk? More Smasher (and cut Jailer) isn't the answer, because if you see TNN at Grixis you will also see the Zombifish and your Smasher is blanked the same way. Talking about any BUG.dec TNN comes along with Gofy which clearly can be 5/6 or more against us. Yes TNN can be a roadblock and Smasher is a nice answer to it on paper - but if we rely heavily on Smasher we face the same trap as colorless Eldrazi and the common opinion is, that Eldrazi struggles against BUG.
I think it is ok to run 3x Reality Smasher, but he isn't the Holy Grail and harder to cast (no Eye, less City) compared to colorless Eldrazi (and don't pump Mimic for mindless attacks).
Palace Jailer itself can also be "bad", but will shine against many creatures from Gofy over Marit till Emrakul (Sneak&Show current DtB). You even can force a TNN to attack etc.
I think the maindeck is able to stay with 4 creature cards as "bombs" wich can be 2:2 Smasher/Jailer or 3:1 Smasher/Jailer (in this case 2nd Jailer at Side). I would not play 4 Smasher (5 to 4 Mana can be problematic, even with Temple) unless the deck also contains Smuggler's Copter to filter them away if you have no mana avaible.
8 basic plains over wasteland: the main reason to play this over colorless eldrazi is that it's less susceptible to wastland lock/bloodmoon. Couple this with the fact that the best 3-drops are
While you are right about Wasteland/Blood Moon compared to colorless Eldrazi i disagree with the 1WW Creature part. Both Thalia(s) are strong here, Thalia 2.0 is even better here (compared to DnT) because you can cast here Turn 1-2 which can win games on the spot. Speaking about "best 3-drops" Eldrazi Displacer is the other workhorse. All the 1WW creatures (especially Prelate!) were discussed here and most of us get it: 1WW is to hard to cast as a maindeck choice and in terms of speed (board impact) a totally different story compared to palace Jailer with 2WW as a mid-lategame option. This deck need 2W creatures to operate successfully at minimal mana. Cutting Wastelands means you cut synergy with Thalia(s) and you can't interact with the enemy manabase (we all know how strong this can be at legacy). I never liked Wastelands at colorless Eldrazi, but here with Thalia and overall lower cc it simply enables another way angle of attack.
Only 3 displacers: while displacer is straight up bonkers in so many matchups, it's bad in multiples and bad against miracles, storm, and TNN/Leovold BUG
It isn't bad in multiples because now you can protect each of them which means attack with all displacers. I have won a race against Br Redanimator with Archetype of Endurance etc. Against Miracles, active Displacer + TKS means "no Miracle", i even cleared some mentor tokens (if they can't go with double SDT) or won against Entreat tokens thanks to Displacer, 3/3 Body is also more than solid enough against Miracle. Against TNN you can attack into it with double Displacer etc. Yes bad against storm but overall Displacer is one of the reasons we should play this deck.
2 mirran crusader maindeck? YES! what a beater he is... do you know the clock an equipped crusader provides? #math
Seems nice - IF(!) you only face BUG (and no TNN is around). Besides the 1WW issue if you look at current DtB, Crusader is only a better against Miracle and Sneak Show and will only shine against BUG decks (other decks have Bolts, Swords or can ignore him if not equiped for lethal damage). So unless your meta is infested with BUG (and nobody uses TNN) this tech feels not so strong, especially if you need to cut the Wastelands, Thalia, Displacer etc. for it.
No THC - Thalia 2.0 isn't horrible, but what would you take out to put her in? Many people don't run stoneforge, but that's the only form of card advantage this deck has. I also feel that equipment aligns perfectly with this decks strategy to have one or two very powerful threats.
THC - see above, you should at least run 3 because she is super strong here. Note that she will also affect combat because dropping stuff like TNN/Gofy/Mentor-Tokens etc. as a roadblock can be problematic with Thalia 2.0 on the field. She will also affect Elves, Sneak Show etc.
Stoneforge is "ok", i run 2 at side and it can also be a maindeck card (but not as a playset) but overall every opponent will grap all of his artifact removal game 2 and 3 which means equipment itself is more vulnerable.
TEAM MtG Berlin
@MD.Ghost
Always appreciate your analysis.
I've decided to leave Pontiff out for now, mainly because I don't own any yet, but also because I don't want to play 8 black sources.
I'm playing Peter's list with some slight modifications:
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Containment Priest
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
4 Eldrazi Displacer
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Mox Diamond
2 Smuggler's Copter
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
4 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
2 Karakas
5 Plains
Sideboard:
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Disenchant
3 Rest in Peace
2 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Batterskull
1 Containment Priest
I'm playing a SoFI over the second Jitte, since I can search for it with Stoneforge post-board. It also randomly helps get past TNN, and is at least a source of card advantage on an empty board.
I have zero double white cards in the deck, which means the manabase is super smooth. Copter is an all-star, and it's possible 3 could be optimal (although the list already feels really tight). It filters away extra Moxes, legendary dudes, or Smasher early on, and gives your random 2 drops something to do. Flashing in Priest EOT to pilot Copter does the trick.
2 Karakas supported by 3 Containment Priest and 3 RiP against S&T/Reanimator/Dredge. Priest + Displacer is a makeshift, reusable Palace Jailer.
@keys: Thanks for your reply, ironically i build nearly the same Maindeck yesterday.
My build number 6 (i developed the deck since the beginning) contains 59/60 of your build. I added a 3rd copy of Smasher (and a lot of other new inventions like Copter, only 3 Mox etc.) but instead of (for my taste still greedy) Playset i test 1 Crucible of Worlds.
Crucible can not only compensate the reduction of Thalia HTC (4>3) as your own manadenial, it has also a synergy with Copter, Mox and City and overall can work against your opponents manadenial plan.
Containment Priest Main was also at my latest version (from december) since it is not only strong against stuff like Reanimator/SneakShow, it also acts as Removal with Displacer (my latest version had additional palace jailer and warping wail).
Sideboard looks more or less the same, i still use 2 Pontiff and 1 Palace Jailer (your Stoneforge+Skull Slots) and currently use a 3rd Disenchant (can be Judgment, Mangara, Planeswalker etc.) because i like to have at least 3 outs against stuff like Ensnaring Bridge or Moat. Sword of Fire and Ice looks fine IF the build contains Stoneforge, but as i mentioned above, if you fear TNN you can also end in a situation against Gofy/Angler with a near useless equipment. Jitte itself is strong because you get the counters from combat damage (and we have First Strike Thalias), Sword of FaI needs to connect for full profit.
TEAM MtG Berlin
Nice to see we're on the same page. The SoFI could end up being the third Copter, since that also gets by TNN. I just don't like it as much against Delver.
Hi guys,
I am new on this thread. I am actually an Eldrazi player and I want to switch to Thalia stompy.
Your buils are very intesresting and I will try more or less the Peter's version (2 blessed alliance instead of Gideon and Palace jialler instead of Amargeddon).
Do you have any sideboard guide?
What do you think about Ballista in this deck?
Thanks in advance for answers & sorry for my english.
So this list took 2nd at a classic.
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...?DeckID=112172
This is little different from all the list I've seen i'm gunna give it a shot.
Nice result - but bad list!
----------
@Pontiff-discussion: card is good and my current build only contains 7 sources of black mana (4 Cavern/3 Mox) - i still wait for the unlucky moment aka die with Pontiff in hand, unable to cast the dude. Pic from a replay today (2:0 vs Bant)
TEAM MtG Berlin
What the hell are you playing against
This is a list i've been testing lately.
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Smuggler's Copter
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Mother of Runes
4 Tireless Tracker
4 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
1 Karakas
4 Windswept Heath
2 Savannah
1 Brushland
It goes GW instead of straight W for a series of reasons, but mostly noble hierarch. Hierarch in this deck do the following:
- give the deck much more mana consistency, allowing consistent T2 TKS and big thalia , or even thalia/chalice with wasteland backup.
- make curving out easier, with more T1 plays
- make your thalias and TKS much more troublesome on attack. 5 instead of 4 thoughness is often a big deal against goyfs.
Can't crew copters though, while it make them beat cliques and delvers. Also human so castable under chalice at 1 with cavern.
The other green addition is Tireless tracker. I've always been impressed by the card, acting as both win condition and card advantage, it's been extremely good for me in my testings. The trick to it is to consider it more of a 4-drop than a 3 -one. Getting a clue off from it ensure card advantage even if removed (and it get hit by everything basically). Prioritize playing thalias, chalice, copter or TKS over it on T2.
Renegade rallier is something i would've liked to try in the deck, but GW is too hard to hit consistently. The same is true for every colored spell that isn't a human creature.
Yeah it's essentially a port of Bant Eldrazi.
So I'm back at it after a short hiatus from thalia stompy. Playing a super standard list taken from the aggregate of mtgtop8.com with a few minor tweaks (-1 THC, -1 Dismember, +1 SFM, +1 Sword of F&I). Many of the decks that have been placing at tournaments seem real bad - like this one: http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...?DeckID=112172
Why have so many ppl been playing Armageddon?
Even though the deck has existed for about a year, there still isn't a consensus of what the mainboard should entail. While I really appreciate the well-written primer on page 13 of this thread, I feel the sample deck lists aren't representative of what people are actually playing. I'm personally not a fan of Thalia 2.0, I have to respect the hive mind...
Anyway, here's some not-so super secret tech I've been considering...
Aven Mindcensor
Vryn Wingmare
Ghostly Prison
Timely Reinforcements
Aven Mindcensor especially would be great if you'd rather not run the SFM package, Vryn Wingmare could be thalia 5&6, and Prison seems like a decent SB inclusion.
25 Lands
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
3 Karakas
1 City of Traitors
5 Plains
24 Creatures
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4 Eldrazi Displacer
3 Reality Smasher
3 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Thalia, Heretic Cathar
11 Artifacts
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Mox Diamond
3 Equipment
Sideboard
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Rest in Peace
2 Containment Priest
2 Seal of Cleansing
2 Blessed Alliance
2 Thorn of Amethyst
Last edited by contra; 04-02-2017 at 01:51 PM.
what does mindcensor have to do with sfm? it should only affect opponents. :)
-rob
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