[Deck] MUD (Metalworker)

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Equally good in that same scenario is naming top against Miracles, then they tap, draw a card and you can chalice if they opt to not replay it. Also, DnT is extremely popular and naming vial makes them play fair magic, running their creatures in as creatures instead of instants, making your Chalices decent for a while (until Flickerwisps start appearing).

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[Mosesthecoot]

Equally good in that same scenario is naming top against Miracles, then they tap, draw a card and you can chalice if they opt to not replay it. Also, DnT is extremely popular and naming vial makes them play fair magic, running their creatures in as creatures instead of instants, making your Chalices decent for a while (until Flickerwisps start appearing).

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Exactly. Just another turn 1 lockpiece to join Chalice. Glad you seem to be on board! Let me know how it works out.

[Stuart]

Alright, you guys sold me. It's SXSW this week and I'm gonna be in Los Angeles for a couple days afterwards, but I'll try out Revoker at my next weekly.

[Secretly.A.Bee]

Exactly. Just another turn 1 lockpiece to join Chalice. Glad you seem to be on board! Let me know how it works out.

I'm not. I'm on DnT, which is one reason I agree, but it doesn't mean it's not solid. I'm for advancing the development of strong legacy decks. Good luck, they are strong in fair metas such as these.

[Runninonwater]

Hello everybody!

i was wondering, what type of gravehate would you recommend to play?

Faerie Macabre makes it so you're able to remove the creature from reanimator decks without playing the card, basicly uncounterable and when you're on the play.

Tormod's Crypt works wonders with Metalworker and costs 0.

Reason I mention these are because they work with a chalice out on 1.


And comments on my deck would be awesome! This is the list im gonna run so far:

Creature (20)
1x Blightsteel Colossus
3x Kuldotha Forgemaster
4x Lodestone Golem
4x Metalworker
1x Phyrexian Revoker
1x Platinum Emperion
1x Steel Hellkite
1x Sundering Titan
1x Thought-Knot Seer
1x Walking Ballista
2x Wurmcoil Engine

Artifact (15)
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Grim Monolith
1x Lightning Greaves
1x Spine of Ish Sah
1x Staff of Domination
1x Staff of Nin
3x Trinisphere

Land (23)
4x Ancient Tomb
2x Cavern of Souls
4x City of Traitors
4x Cloudpost
4x Glimmerpost
2x Vesuva
3x Wasteland

Planeswalker (2)
2x Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

Sideboard (15)
1x Crucible of Worlds
2x Ensnaring Bridge
3x Faerie Macabre
2x Phyrexian Revoker
1x Ratchet Bomb
1x Tormod's Crypt
1x Trinisphere
2x Walking Ballista
2x Warping Wail



EDIT: I've been thinking of playing Coercive Portal over the Thought-knot Seer, what do you all think?

EIDT 2: And should i play Platinum Angel or Platinum Emperion? They sort of fill the same spot but they do have their own pros and cons.

[Mosesthecoot]

EDIT: I've been thinking of playing Coercive Portal over the Thought-knot Seer, what do you all think?

EIDT 2: And should i play Platinum Angel or Platinum Emperion? They sort of fill the same spot but they do have their own pros and cons.

Hey! Nice list. I run almost the same exact 75. I cut the Emperion, Hellkite, Spine and Nin to make room for Portal and extra Revokers. I found myself never searching up the Emperion because if I had a target, it was to win the game rather than to stabilize. Emperion dies to removal where at least Blightsteel and Sundering Titan either put your opponent on a 2 turn clock or destroy their manabase.

I have room for 2 TKS as well as 2 Portal. I took out the Portals for awhile but missed them immediately. They're pretty much must-counter spells against blue decks in general, but Miraclea hates to let them resolve. In this scenario, you're either out-drawing then, or you're clearing their counters for your win conditions.

As for the Angel versus Emperion question, I chose Emperion for its clock, mostly. He also works well with Ancient Tomb. You are also living dangerously with an Angel because your life total is still diminishing. They can just Disenchant the Angel whenever they find that the coast is clear. Emperion stops the clock, so to speak, which allows you to sculpt your plays.

Hope this helps!

[Silverflame]

Hey! Nice list. I run almost the same exact 75. I cut the Emperion, Hellkite, Spine and Nin to make room for Portal and extra Revokers. I found myself never searching up the Emperion because if I had a target, it was to win the game rather than to stabilize. Emperion dies to removal where at least Blightsteel and Sundering Titan either put your opponent on a 2 turn clock or destroy their manabase.

I have room for 2 TKS as well as 2 Portal. I took out the Portals for awhile but missed them immediately. They're pretty much must-counter spells against blue decks in general, but Miraclea hates to let them resolve. In this scenario, you're either out-drawing then, or you're clearing their counters for your win conditions.

As for the Angel versus Emperion question, I chose Emperion for its clock, mostly. He also works well with Ancient Tomb. You are also living dangerously with an Angel because your life total is still diminishing. They can just Disenchant the Angel whenever they find that the coast is clear. Emperion stops the clock, so to speak, which allows you to sculpt your plays.

Hope this helps!

I disagree on cutting hellkite. It's a beast against tnn decks.
Portals are awesome but I couldn't find room for them, so I switched 2 lands for inventor's fair. It's not as game changing as kuldotha if you have no greaves, but it's less restrictive and can be used for surprise kills with metalworker. The added value against burn is small, but is there too.

[Stuart]

I wanted to test Thran Dynamo, so I played this yesterday:

4 Metalworker
4 Lodestone
3 Forgemaster
3 Wurmcoi
1 Emperion
2 Sundering Titan
2 Ugin

4 Monolith
2 Thran Dynamo
4 Chalice
3 Trinisphere
2 Greaves
1 Staff
1 Spine

3 Wasteland
4 Tomb
4 City
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
2 Vesuva
2 Cavern
1 Inventors' Fair

1 Platinum Angel
1 Contagion Engine
2 Walking Ballista
2 Portal
2 Crucible
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Needle
3 Faerie Macabre

Went 3-1, losing to Shardless and beating BUG True Name Landstill, Maverick, and Sneak Show. Dynamo was nice when it showed up, but as a 2-of in a 4-round event, I think I only drew it 2 or 3 times. When I did, the ramp felt strong. I think the 2nd Sundering Titan will become a 3rd Ugin, as I sorely wanted to draw him in all 3 fair matchups and he only showed up once. Might also tweak the board to have slightly more combo hate, so I found I didn't have much to bring in vs Sneak Show.

[Mosesthecoot]

Hey Stuart, can I ask your sideboarding strategies? Specifically, when do you bring in Crucible and the Angel? I've gone away from Ballista for now and I'm using 4 slots for Wail and Contortion. I think I may have to go another direction with my deck as I did horrible last week. I faced Nic Fit(junk), BUG w/o shardless, miracles and burn. I feel like I must have sequences wrong thought the night since I should have zero issues with Miracles and I couldn't draw enough hate fast enough for Nic Fit.

[Stuart]

Cheers Moses. Some thoughts:
- Angel and Crucible are primarily in there for Lands (though they have applications against combo and DnT, respectively). I think with the right tools, Lands is a 50:50 or better matchup, but you need to have useful things against them. Angel is an additional out to Marit Lage, which is the scariest part of that match (we can still play against Waste/Port locks thanks to Metalworker, Monolith, etc). Crucible's uses are obvious. I'm also bringing in Portal and Needle, FWIW.
- You might be right to cut Ballista. I had it in the main for a minute, but it wasn't doing much. I moved it to the board for further testing vs DnT, Elves, and Delver, but the verdict's still out as I haven't seen much of those lately. Warping Wail might be better; I just don't like playing cards the require us to leave mana up. That said, being able to counter stuff like Terminus, From the Ashes, Hymn, etc seems good.
- Honestly, both your meta and the meta overall don't sound very ripe for MUD. In an ideal world we'd see lots of 1 CMC decks, but the world has moved on to midrange. Likewise, I've been saying for a while that Miracles is no longer the auto-win it used to be. Eldrazi forced Miracles pilots to adapt, and now they're pretty great at forcing your Chalice, answering 1-2 threats, and making a crippling play with Back to Basics or From the Ashes. As for Nic Fit, I think that's pretty play/draw dependent; turn 1 Chalice on the play is a huge tempo swing, but we're in trouble if they ramp into 4 lands on turn 2.

[Claymore1]

I do not play MUD, so I do not know if my opinion matters here, I am mainly enchantress player. My friend, however, plays MUD all the time, and one thing I saw in action was him grabbing Platinum Emperion dude versus Aluren and sitting back with it. So long as he does not attack with it, he cannot run it into a Baleful Strix, and it's too big for Aluren to Abrupt Decay and the Aluren guy couln't combo kill him. I thought it was funny.

[L10]

I prefer Emperion vs Lands over Angel because he shuts Punishing Grove off completely. Platinum Angel is way easier to kill w/o Greaves. I'd play both if I could though.

[Stuart]

I prefer Emperion vs Lands over Angel because he shuts Punishing Grove off completely. Platinum Angel is way easier to kill w/o Greaves. I'd play both if I could though.

I play both . You're right that Emperion's better vs Lands, but I like having both available post-board.

[BlackHawkX9]

I prefer Emperion vs Lands over Angel because he shuts Punishing Grove off completely. Platinum Angel is way easier to kill w/o Greaves. I'd play both if I could though.

I agree. The only time I ever want angel over emperion, is vs infect or painter grind stone. Every other scenario makes me want emperion.

[Mosesthecoot]

Let me ask you guys this: When do you churn out Emperion? I usually had the choice when I was Forging but I never wanted it in that situation. Do you slam him asap or do you wait until you truly need the effect?

[Stuart]

Let me ask you guys this: When do you churn out Emperion? I usually had the choice when I was Forging but I never wanted it in that situation. Do you slam him asap or do you wait until you truly need the effect?

That's pretty situational. In game 1, I'm usually in favor of slamming him ASAP; most Legacy decks don't have good game 1 outs to Emperion. That said, if they might have access to StP, I'll wait until I have a Chalice or Greaves to protect him. Games 2 and 3 I'm always much more conservative (unless again I don't think they have good outs to him), and wait until I absolutely need him or I can protect him.

One caveat is combo. If I'm trying to close out a game quickly, I'll frequently want Emperion as he's my biggest attacker (unless it's a situation in which Titan's land destruction is gonna do a lot of work), regardless of how protected he is.

The other caveat is Wurmcoil. If I have a Wurmcoil active, obviously I'll wait to fetch Emperion and am usually better served with Titan, Spine, etc.

[Noctalor]

Got a top16 (5/2) in a 100ish ppl tournament with this list

// 60 Maindeck
// 31 Artifact
4 Crucible of Worlds
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Smokestack
4 Mox Diamond
4 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Trinisphere
4 Ratchet Bomb
1 Ghirapur Orrery
3 Bottled Cloister
1 Trading Post

// 4 Creature
4 Metalworker

// 25 Land
4 Wasteland
4 Ancient Tomb
1 Buried Ruin
4 City of Traitors
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Gods' Eye, Gate to the Reikai
1 Drownyard Temple
2 Inventors' Fair


// 15 Sideboard
// 11 Artifact
SB: 2 Uba Mask
SB: 3 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 Caltrops
SB: 3 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Coercive Portal

// 4 Creature
SB: 4 Lodestone Golem


I lost to a burn which got insanely lucky (won g2 despite my chalice on 1 drawing no 1 drop the entire game and won g3 topdecking exquisite firecraft and 2 fireblasts while I had chalice on 1 and 2 and was racing with a golem) and grixis delver drawing 4 lands in 2 games and mulling pretty hard.

I smashed 2 miracles easily (it is almost a bye for this list), had the pleasure to win turn 1 against a sneak, won against eldrazis and lasty won against BR reanimator.

The list feels good, I swapped a ghost quarter for the third inventors' fair which is absolutely insane, was wondering if a copy of a card able to give us shroud could be helpful (Orbs of Warding or Witchbane Orb, still unsure if having protection from elementals is worth 1 mana).
I was also unsure if tormod's are better than faerie macabre or leyline, the tormod's were enought to beat the reanimator I faced, but I'm still not 100% sure.

[Jakobian1010]

Got a top16 (5/2) in a 100ish ppl tournament with this list

// 60 Maindeck
// 31 Artifact
4 Crucible of Worlds
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Smokestack
4 Mox Diamond
4 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Trinisphere
4 Ratchet Bomb
1 Ghirapur Orrery
3 Bottled Cloister
1 Trading Post

// 4 Creature
4 Metalworker

// 25 Land
4 Wasteland
4 Ancient Tomb
1 Buried Ruin
4 City of Traitors
4 Ghost Quarter
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Gods' Eye, Gate to the Reikai
1 Drownyard Temple
2 Inventors' Fair


// 15 Sideboard
// 11 Artifact
SB: 2 Uba Mask
SB: 3 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 Caltrops
SB: 3 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Coercive Portal

// 4 Creature
SB: 4 Lodestone Golem


I lost to a burn which got insanely lucky (won g2 despite my chalice on 1 drawing no 1 drop the entire game and won g3 topdecking exquisite firecraft and 2 fireblasts while I had chalice on 1 and 2 and was racing with a golem) and grixis delver drawing 4 lands in 2 games and mulling pretty hard.

I smashed 2 miracles easily (it is almost a bye for this list), had the pleasure to win turn 1 against a sneak, won against eldrazis and lasty won against BR reanimator.

The list feels good, I swapped a ghost quarter for the third inventors' fair which is absolutely insane, was wondering if a copy of a card able to give us shroud could be helpful (Orbs of Warding or Witchbane Orb, still unsure if having protection from elementals is worth 1 mana).
I was also unsure if tormod's are better than faerie macabre or leyline, the tormod's were enought to beat the reanimator I faced, but I'm still not 100% sure.

Coming from playing the "normal" 12-post list of MUD, and having tried this build a little bit as well, I can attest that your sideboard shouldn't need any more than maybe 2 tormod's crypts vs Reanimator. Trinisphere and Chalice of the void are so good against them, and in this build Ensnaring Bridge also does wonders. MUD has a pretty good game 1 vs graveyard based decks (except the ones that recur wastelands, ouch!) so it doesn't need a lot of sideboard hate dedicated to making the matchup better than it already is.

[Jakobian1010]

Let me ask you guys this: When do you churn out Emperion? I usually had the choice when I was Forging but I never wanted it in that situation. Do you slam him asap or do you wait until you truly need the effect?

The best "mantra" I can recommend for MUD regarding kuldotha forgemaster is this: "Is the card I'm getting guaranteeing me to win the game?" If the answer is no, you usually shouldn't be activating forgemaster. There's a great deal of value in having patience and knowing when the right time to get certain cards is. I usually only grab platinum emperion/angel when I have a bad board state and need to not die, vs grabbing something like blightsteel colossus when I know I can kill my opponent on the spot. It's a super great tool to have, but you don't need to get it every single game. It's often not the correct tool for the current situation.

[Runninonwater]

I kinda rediscovered Powder Keg and ordered a couple of them.
They can help in elves/affinity/Tezzeret control matchups and it works against TNN as well.
It can destroys artifact lands, Inkmoth Nexus, Mox Diamonds/Opals, Chrome Moxes, Vial and more.

Because i don't know about Ballista, i like the card and if i have 3 in total (1 in main), its easier to needle/revoker it if i play multiples of them.

I have Ballista Against decks with tiny creatures but Powder keg does the same thing, except it cannot really be activated for 1 counter the moment in hits the field, Ballista
can atleast pick of a few creatures if you topdeck it later.