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Thread: [Deck] Death and Taxes

  1. #7781
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Jitte and Batterskull help you race. Sofi helps you get dudes past TNN. SoWaP helps you...race if you already ran out of your better equipment and also have a flyer? When you have to come up with these super specific situations for a card to be good, it's probably not gonna be good that often.

  2. #7782

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    The lifegain has negated a TNN for me more than once. Finding a flyer isn't that hard, paired with a Mirran in the BUG matchup, the protection from SoWP doesn't matter unless they have a TNN down, and then it doesn't matter unless they hold back for blocking, creating board parity. Every equip besides a Batterskull (and even then still the Germ) dies to Decay, so that's pretty irrelevant. I may be incorrect, but so far I don't think so.

    Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

  3. #7783

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by MD.Ghost View Post
    Played against the Enevoldsen-List yesterday with "Thalia Stompy" and won 2:1 - he won game 1 thanks to a fast tomb and jailer, but overall he told me that he disliked the build - our other games clearly showed, that without the random Tombs the deck is really clunky and Thalia Stompy does the same thing way superior if you want to ramp into high cc stuff to gain early advantage.

    As we already discussed: cards like Thalia HC are quite good if played turn 1-2, if you followed this path you will also like to drop something like thalia or stoneforge turn 1, heck even chalice sounds good. Porting around might be one of the nice things for DnT, but if you already test tombs, you can replace the colorless ports with eldrazi temple and play some hard hitters that don't need equipment to be a threat.
    I played the list last week for four rounds and then some casual games, so small sample size, but I really liked the ancient tombs. T1 vial + relic came up, as did t3 double port. The extra mana was almost never a waste and the life loss was not as important as the extra mana. It certainly helped with equipping creatures. I ran a recruiter and an eldrazi displacer over vryn wingmare though. Still a fan of THC, personally. Jailer was either insane or awful and I'm not sure about it.

  4. #7784

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    SoWaP comes out against BUG decks.

    Displacer plus Jailer is the level of jank I could get behind in an Ancient Tomb shell. 10/10, would play for giggles.

  5. #7785

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Medea_ View Post
    SoWaP comes out against BUG decks.

    Displacer plus Jailer is the level of jank I could get behind in an Ancient Tomb shell. 10/10, would play for giggles.
    That's not quite the quality post we're used to getting from you. A declarative statement should at least have a tiny bit of reasoning to go with it.

  6. #7786
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by iatee View Post
    Jitte and Batterskull help you race. Sofi helps you get dudes past TNN. SoWaP helps you...race if you already ran out of your better equipment and also have a flyer? When you have to come up with these super specific situations for a card to be good, it's probably not gonna be good that often.
    ^
    Could not agree more.

    I think you guys are over-valuing True-Name's effectiveness against DnT. It takes two True-Names to beat a lone Batterskull. One connection with a Jitte negates an entire True-Name attack. I know you all know this, but it seems like you are forgetting that TNN is only a 3/1 at the end of the day.
    Quote Originally Posted by nedleeds View Post
    Dat 1/1 with built in pump. Watch out Griselbrand here comes lizard mid range.
    Quote Originally Posted by Von View Post
    Is this a troll or are gobbos really dtb?

  7. #7787
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    I played in a 12 person GPT yesterday. 4 of us played D&T, and 3 of us got into the Top 4; 2 of us were running SOWAP and it was an absolute beast.

    Other decks were RUG/UR Delver, BG Depths, and BUG variants. My sideboard was expecting BUG and various graveyard combos. General consensus was everyone at the event had a useless half of the sideboard because the meta was not as expected.

    //Maindeck (60)
    4 Mother of Runes
    3 Phyrexian Revoker
    2 Serra Avenger
    4 Stoneforge Mystic
    4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
    4 Flickerwisp
    2 Mirran Crusader
    2 Recruiter of the Guard
    1 Sanctum Prelate
    4 Swords to Plowshares
    4 Aether Vial
    1 Umezawa's Jitte
    1 Sword of Fire and Ice
    1 Sword of War and Peace
    2 Cavern of Souls
    3 Karakas
    10 Plains
    4 Rishadan Port
    4 Wasteland

    //Sideboard (15)
    2 Containment Priest
    2 Ethersworn Canonist
    1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
    1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
    2 Path to Exile
    2 Surgical Extraction
    2 Council's Judgment
    1 Batterskull
    2 Rest in Peace


    Round 1: WBUG Aluren
    G1: Opponent was struggling to keep up, especially after I drew Mirran Crusader. He cast Shardless Agent, cascading away Aluren a few cards down and never saw another.
    G2: Opponent was stuck on mana and I punished him for it. Naturally drew two Crusaders over the course of three turns and he had nothing left but a Swamp (which I Ported).
    1-0

    Round 2: UR Delver with RUG transformational sideboard
    G1: He has a slower than expected hand and doesn't put much pressure on. He drops a Pyromancer, I get a Jitte online and chip away easily.
    G2: I sideboard for lifegain and am greeted with Nimble Mongoose. Opponent has an incredibly slow start and throws burn at my face instead of taking care of my creatures like SFM which should've been bolted on sight. I end up getting a SoWaP on a creature, so while I take hits from 2x Mongoose I just gain the life back next turn. He drops a Hooting Mandrills, but unfortunately for him the Mongoose left a lot of removal stuck in my hand and I Plow it immediately to win two turns later.
    2-0

    Round 3: D&T against the eventual winner. Probably the best D&T player I know.
    G1: He crushes me with SoWaP.
    G2: He gets stuck on mana and I punish him for it.
    G3: I have enough for a perfect curve but miss a Vial trigger one turn which screws up my entire game plan. He buries me as a result. Don't know if I could have won if I was able to cast & Vial on curve as intended but the game certainly would've gone much longer.
    2-1

    Round 4: D&T again.
    G1: Opponent gets a ton of Moms out and one Crusader and prevents me from doing much of anything to his stuff. Eventually I get a Jitte online and snipe his board away.
    G2: Opponent once again draws almost nothing but Plows and Moms. We end up having a little bit of a Flickerwisp and Vial battle until I get SOWAP online, then win shortly after.
    3-1

    Round 5: BG Depths. Opponent is out of contention for prizes and he offers to concede to me under the condition that I still play some games.
    G1: He probably would've combo'd T3 but I played a T2 revoker on Vampire Hexmage. I left an untapped Karakas out most of the game. I think he ends up comboing me out anyways because I drew nothing but lands for many turns (I had all 4 Ports out!)
    G2: I drop T1 Karakas again and do nothing for a while as my deck keeps not cooperating. Eventually I get out a Serra Avenger and Crusader, Wasteland at the appropriate time when he tries to copy with Stage, and beat him down.
    G3: Opponent tries to combo on his T3. End of turn I Surgical his Dark Depths and cross my fingers because I have no other outs. My turn I top deck Path To Exile, cast it and opponent scoops. Luckiest topdeck I've ever had.

    Top 4: D&T (same as Round 3 opponent).
    G1: He crushes me.
    G2: I crush him:
    G3: This one goes very long. I get him down to 3 and I'm very convinced I have it in the bag despite not seeing any SFM or equipment. He gets a Batterskull which buys himself a turn. That turn allows him to start using Flickerwisps to mess with my board, before getting Jitte to snipe my board, and eventually a SOFI to continue chipping away. I was blown away how he was able to claw back, but equipment stole the game.



    I had tons of fun and I'm very confident in my list for SCG Worcester next weekend. I'm tempted to cut Sanctum Prelate for a third Mirran Crusader, but I feel like in a wide open meta she may end up being some use even if she hasn't been any help locally. Sideboard feels great, and I like Surgicals over Faerie Macabres as they have much more use despite not being tutorable.

  8. #7788

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    @Secretly.A.Bee
    Ouch, called out hard. Iatee said the main points, and my intention was just to support him, but I'll reiterate.

    SoWaP comes out against BUG decks because it is the last piece of equipment you would conceivably fetch. It doesn't help you go toe-to-toe with their creatures in the same way that Jitte or SoFaI does, it does not have relevant protection, it does not let you grind out a game like Batterskull, and it has less of an impact than most of our other sideboard cards. It's not like I'm sad to see it in game 1, but we tend to have a fair number of cards to bring in for the BUG matchups despite already having a pretty solid maindeck; the cuts need to come somewhere.

    Yes, Mirran Crusader plus equipment is a great line to victory. That being said, if your Jitte and SoFaI have already been dealt with, why isn't your opponent just dead to the Mirran Crusader that they can't get off the board? If the answer is TNN, SoWaP isn't helping there either. In the long game, where you actually did have your other pieces of equipment destroyed, both you and your opponent are likely hellbent (or close to it). The trigger won't be doing you much good in those situations.

    @RobNC
    SoWaP is love. SoWaP is life.

    On a serious note, your list seems fine. Take some notes and write up a good report for us; Worcester is like 10 hours for me, so I'm not going to make it. I'd cut Avenger #2 before I'd cut Prelate #1 (I'm on 3 Crusaders myself).

    Prelate is really important as a tutor target. Prelate really shores up a ton of the weird matchups (e.g. Aluren), and not having access to at least one in the 75 seems loose. It doesn't seem great in your metagame full of D&T, but in a field of Miracles and other popular decks, it's strong.

    Agreed on Surgical over Faerie; I like the more generically useful card over Faerie, which only excels vs RB Reanimator.

  9. #7789
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    I have no intention to play at Worchester, but if I did bring a list I'd 100% run Armageddon in the sideboard (I think it's very underrated/under appreciated right now).
    I also think Sword of Body & Mind warrants a discussion. IIRC, @Medea_ flirted it as a meta call in recent articles. I see it as a trump card against all these DRS/TNN/Delver lists.

  10. #7790

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Okay, I had a ton of espresso and can't sleep, so I'm going to finally articulate something I've been thinking on for a while. I think our sideboard has room for improvement. I've been wanting to address it since R/B Reanimator started declining, but I haven't been able to quite put my finger on what needs to change. I think opposing decks are currently divided into about four categories right now:

    1. Miracles. Comes in a few different flavors; all of them are good. Recently we've seen a shift towards more Predicts as a necessity for fighting the decks in category 2.

    2. Various 3-4 color decks featuring Abrupt Decay and Baleful Strix that try to grind out Miracles and other decks in this category. These range from tempo decks (3-4 color "Delver"), to control decks (Shardless, Team America), to combo decks (Food Chain, Aluren).

    3. Various decks that attack BUG decks (ANT, Burn, Show and Tell, Blood Moon decks). These decks try to beat the BUG decks before they can get established. This can either mean literally winning the game via fast combo with some backup, or by turning greedy manabases against themselves (Blood Moon, Price of Progress).

    4. Various decks that are doing something powerful while being a touch tricky to interact with (Elves, Infect, Eldrazi, Lands).
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    So the following decks are on my personal, "I'm expecting this matchup" list, in rough order of importance:

    Miracles
    BUG Decks (Shardless, Team America, BUG Delver, 4c Delver, Food Chain, Aluren)
    D&T
    Burn
    ANT
    Elves
    Show and Tell
    Lands
    Eldrazi
    Infect

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Surgical Extraction seems really poor against this field. It's amazing against Lands and playable against ANT. R/B and other reanimator decks are on a decline; there's just so much incidental hate around in the form of DRS that it's just not a good time to mucking around in graveyards. Can these slots be better utilized? Would we want something like another Containment Priest or RiP over one of these? Is Containment Priest even pulling its weight? Are there other pieces of early interaction that might be better?

    I've also been on the fence about trying the deck without Batterskull. I've kept it in there out of fear of the Eldrazi matchup and due to its unique effect, but I do wonder if I can get by without it. Again, I haven't pulled the trigger on this, but I'm willing to discuss it.

    I've also been wondering if we can adjust things by finding cards that overlap well with commons matchups. At what point do we start experimenting with cards like Mindbreak Trap for the ANT matchup since it also happens to cover Food Chain, Aluren, and Elves? Is something like Leyline of Sanctity or Aegis of the Gods fine as something that can overlap with ANT and Burn? Is it time for Canonist #3 or SotL #1? Has the format slowed down enough where we want to hate on lands via Armageddon or Winter Orb, which would interact favorably with the Lands, Miracles, and various BUG matchups? Are there enough BUG matchups around that the SoBaM I was toying around with actually might be good? Are any of the flexible cards (e.g. Blessed Alliance, Warping Wail) covering enough generic ground to be worth it now?
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I'm interested in doing some elephanting, and I think mucking around with the sideboard a bit might pay some dividends. It can't just be "add more cards to make X matchup better." That's how we end up with infinite cards to bring in for the BUG matchups and not enough cards to take out. Anyway, I don't have the answers yet, but those are the sort of questions I'm asking myself now.

  11. #7791

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Meta of BoM2017 (4% or more):
    http://www.bazaar-of-moxen.com/en/index.html

    AGGRO 26,80%

    Death & Taxes 33 7,37% - CC, Needle, Disenchant effects, removal, sweeper
    Eldrazi Aggro 21 4,69% - Magus of the Moon, removal, CC, Batterskull
    Burn 14 3,13% - Batterskull, removal, disenchant effects, CC
    Infect 14 3,13% - removal, Canonist, Needle
    UR Delver 10 2,23%
    Goblins 7 1,56%
    Dragon Stompy 5 1,12%
    Maverick 5 1,12%
    Merfolk 3 0,67%
    MUD 3 0,67%
    Bant 2 0,45%
    OTHER AGGRO 2 0,45%
    Grixis Delver 1 0,22%
    CONTROL 44.19%
    BUG Midrange 49 10,94% - bug delver/leovold bug? Moon Effects, removal, Rest in Peace, CC, Batterskull
    Miracles 38 8,48% - Gideon, Needle, Palace Jailer, CC, Ratchet Bomb?
    BUG Control 28 6,25% - Moon Effects, Batterskull, Rest in Peace,
    Grixis Control 27 6,03% - Moon Effects, Batterskull, Gideon, Palace Jailer, Rest in Peace
    Lands 10 2,23%
    The Rock (Junk) 10 2,23%
    OTHER CONTROL:10 2,23%
    Stoneblade 8 1,79%
    Thresholdv(other)6 1,34%
    Nic Fit 5 1,12%
    Loam 4 0,89%
    Tezzeret Control 2 0,45%
    Pox 1 0,22%
    COMBO 29.01%
    Dark Depths 25 5,58% - Needle, PtE, maybe Moon effects
    Reanimator 25 5,58% - Surgical, Rest in Peace, PtE?, Canonist, Containment Priest, Graffdiggers Cage
    Show and Tell 20 4,46% - Needle, Containment Priest, Canonist?,
    Storm 17 3,79% - Canonist, sweeper, Rest in Peace, Surgical, Graffdiggers Cage
    Elves 15 3,35% - Canonist, Graffdiggers Cage, Containment Priest, sweeper, Moon Effect
    Food Griffin 9 2,01%
    Painter 7 1,56%
    Mono R Sneak 4 0,89%
    Aluren 3 0,67%
    OTHER COMBO 3 0,67%
    Dredge 2 0,45%

    *spent 20 minutes by trying to format the table, but without success..

    Given the SB cards I would prefer to bring in SB against each of the top decks, my board would look like this (note: I am splashing red at the moment):
    1x Batterskull
    2x Gideon
    1x Palace Jailer
    1x Magus of the Moon
    1x Electrickery/Sudden Demise //could be pontiff with extra scrubland main/sb
    2x Ethersworn Canonist
    1x Containment Priest
    1x PtE
    2x Rest in Peace
    1x Pithing Needle
    1x Council's Judgment
    1x either PtE or Surgical

    My maindeck:
    4x Plains
    5x Fetch
    2x Plateau
    4x Wasteland
    4x Rishadan Port
    2x Cavern of Souls
    2x Karakas (cut one Karakas for extra Plateau)

    4x Aether Vial
    4x Mother of Runes
    4x Thalia
    4x Stoneforge Mystic
    3x Phyrexian Revoker
    1x Serra Avenger
    2x Recruiter of the Guard
    1x Sanctum Prelate
    1x Magus of the Moon // so many free wins
    2x Mirran Crusader
    4x Swords to Plowshares
    1x Sword of Fire and Ice
    1x Sword of War and Peace
    1x Umezawa§s Jitte

    Actually, this is the list I am playing (except few changes in SB), because my meta is similar to BoM meta and Magus gives me way too many free wins.

  12. #7792
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Hmm, in my eyes a couple of cards in our sideboard are set in stone, mainly Ethersworn Canonist and Rest in Peace.

    I never dropped below 2 Canonist, same for the RIP's though I have seen people running 1 in combination with Enlightened tutor if they make their SB Artifact/enchantment based.

    2 Canonist, 2 RIP

    Then you need to keep in mind that quite some Hate is in the form of Enchantments [Dread of night, E. Plague, night of souls betrayel] or Artefacts [Pithing needle, Null rod] which you need to be able to remove. [Also fringe cards like Ensnaring bridge comes to mind]

    I think most will settle on Council's judgement as this is the ''gotta catch them all'' answer ranging from most hate to TNN.
    I noticed over the last couple of months that allot of people bumped Council up to 2.

    2 Canonist, 2 RIP, 2 Councils.

    I always include one Pithing needle in my sideboard to deal with specific lands [Inkmoth nexus, Thespian stage, Maze of ith yadyada] moreso because if I want to have more fancy stuff in my deck, one of the first things I tend to cut to make room are the Revokers.

    2 Canonist, 2 RIP, 2 Councils, 1 Pithing needle.

    I also run 1 containment priest on a regular basis, used to have 2. But went back to 1 to free up slots in my sideboard. I guess, with the addition of Recruiters that I can get away with this.

    thats 8 out of 15 slots which I run on a very regular basis.

    From this point on you can start adding the ''fun stuff'' imo.

    Allot of people starting to include Planeswalkers versus [afaik] mainly Miracles, the card which has seemed to go down in allot of SB cards is Cataclysm. From what I conducted it seemed people freed up the Cataclysm slot to include Gideon instead. Both cards cover the same matchups [Cataclysm was mainly a lands/miracle hate card in my eyes] with Gideon also showing to be contributing in matchups that play -1-1 sweepers, or the mirror.

    The increase of SB removal in the form of PtE's was a reaction to the Eldrazi decks from what I remember, though I also find it a solid choice to board in versus Infect and [although to a lesser extent] BUG. From what I read in the DTB section of this forum Eldrazi has seen its peak, people recognise the deck and learned to adapt. Although still present in my local meta I did notice that some of the players that where on Eldrazi swapped back to their old decks after 3 months. I don't know if this change is just local, or global. If its global, I guess we should re-evaluate how much we still want the PtE's.

    Surgical extractions, Faerie macabre stuff has been a sole response to the BR reanimator that popped on the radar again. Although I love surgical allot when playing with Elves, I do not include it in the DnT SB as I rather play another Containment priest or RIP. Granted, Surgical has some awsome targets in certain matchups [Punishing fire, Dark Depths, Engineered Explosives, reanimator targets] I also understand that Surgical allows you to react to Reanimator turn 0 [on the draw], it has a wide range of functions, that being said, considering we never played them before the Reanimator top 8, I guess that these slots will be freed up again once the deck is enough on the decline. [Mainly because we tend to have 2-4 slots dedicated to GY, and what I see happen allot now is that people went up to 5-6 GY cards instead.]

    Sanctum prelate, imo, should be included at least 1 in the mainboard, I loved the card since its release, had allot of positive results with it, and even played with 2 MB for a while. I am lately considering to move one to my SB to free up a slot in the MD for a Mirran Crusader. Imo, prelate is a good SB card because it can be boarded in allot of matches. Basicly, blue decks its [nearly] always ok to put it on 1, in certain matchups the card can stop the keycards [Show and tell, Terminus, Tendrils of Agony] which will at the minimum buy you time.

    Anything else aside the above cards are deviating from the SB's I tend to see here online lately, and I guess we shouldn't forget that people also have different playstyles, or local meta's which make them choose certain cards which in an open meta would be mediocre at best [example, I tend to include absolute law allot in my SB because I HATE losing from red decks, online I won't have allot of people that will back me up with the card choice, but in my local meta it tends to shine quite often and DnT players here will argue less against the card then the online ones which I need to make clear first in what kind of Meta I am playing.]

    Edit: Looking at the meta breakdown I can't help but chuckle that they slided D&T under the agro section of decks rather then control. I would place D&T under the control section, I have no idea why people automaticly conclude, your playing a creature deck so it has to be agro. . .

  13. #7793

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    So assuming we cut say the 2 paths and the 1-2 surgicals and the 1 skull and suddenly had 5 open sideboard slots.


    What would even start to play? I feel like those cards are in my sideboard because they are so incredibly impactful; other options just feel so much less powerful (most of the time).

    an example:

    Compare going into game 2 vs. RUG devler or Reanimator with a RiP in your opening hand or against SnS with a Cpriest to ...... opening against a blue deck with a Spirit of the Labyrinth (out of the side).... it just feels so much less impactful.

    Part of the problem I have is that the match-ups that i want better cards for.... I really can't find or think of any cards that are just game-ending like that... this is probably the rest that decks like Miracles and BUG/4C are the top decks that they are because of the lack of easy answers against them.

  14. #7794
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Cutting Path to Exile is crazy, IMO.

    Path is good against:

    Eldrazi
    All Delver decks
    Infect
    Mirror
    Reanimator
    Lands
    Burn
    Other rando creature decks.

    The above adds up to a pretty healthy chunk of the legacy metagame.

  15. #7795

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    As a practitioner of RW Taxes I think it is wrong to not include Pia and Kiran Nalaar in your 75. That card cuts through hate from the BUG decks, provides a haymaking comeback mechanism, and is a sufficient standalone threat for Miracles to deal with. Generally Pia and Kiran Nalaar takes the spot of the 2nd Gideon and I highly recommend it.

    Also I would cut the 4th Plains for another Karakas.

    Lately red non-creature spells have been awkward for me and I have concluded that just biting the bullet and playing Path to Exiles over cards like Sudden Demise and REB is sufficient. My reasoning is that Sneak and Show will always find a way to make itself present in the metagame thanks to the metagame share Miracles always had as well as the BUG decks holding their share. Also Path is fantastic against Delvers and Eldrazi.

  16. #7796

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Pia and Kiran Nalaar were under consideration, but I am skeptical about double red manacost. Did you have an color mana issue or do you tick up vial@4 and then protect it with Karakas? Also, did you ever find yourself not playing Magus of the Moon, because you lacked second basic Plains? It makes sense to return back 3rd Karakas and include Pia and Kiran. I will give it a try!

    Edit: checked your posts 5 pages back and found out an answer for my question.

  17. #7797

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Just wanted to pop in and say I totally agree with the discussion here on the subject of Surgical leaving the sideboard. I think Reanimator had its brief stint near the top and now we're in need of a small update. Here's what I'd be on (mind you I haven't played in an event since the Baltimore classic).
    3 Ethersworn Canonist
    2 Rest in Peace
    2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
    2 Path to Exile
    2 Council's Judgment
    1 Containment Priest
    1 Palace Jailer
    1 Pithing Needle
    1 Sword of War and Peace

    I'm on 3 crusader and 1 avenger main and the rest are the usual suspects. Also like 2 cavern a lot right now.

  18. #7798
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    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by iatee View Post
    Cutting Path to Exile is crazy, IMO.

    Path is good against:

    Eldrazi
    All Delver decks
    Infect
    Mirror
    Reanimator
    Lands
    Burn
    Other rando creature decks.

    The above adds up to a pretty healthy chunk of the legacy metagame.
    I wouldn't rule out shaving it down to 1 PTE though. That gives you 5 magic missiles against ^^quoted^^ decks with additional bombs being CJ x2. I know I bring in CJ against BUG since it ruins planeswalkers and TNN alike. Perhaps this is a way to net more slots while providing the same functionality?

  19. #7799

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Medea_ View Post
    1. Miracles. Comes in a few different flavors; all of them are good. Recently we've seen a shift towards more Predicts as a necessity for fighting the decks in category 2.
    Predict also makes the match-up worse for us. Our gameplan against miracles has always been twofold: first we attempt to race them aided by hatebears and port. Most of the time, in particular against good miracles players, this would fail, especially without vial, in which case it was almost impossible. Our second plan was to grind them out, mostly through equipment and legendaries + karakas, post side by casting massive nerf spells such as Gideon, Palace Jailer, Cataclysm and Armageddon. This latter plan is made much more difficult through predict, which is basically to them ancestral recall for two mana. This allows them to restock on answers to our grind game, including finding the correct ones for difficult-to-answer spells such as Gideon and land destruction.

    If we're to change our sideboard, I think a considerable chunk should go to a strategy that can consistently beat or at least put up a defense against miracles' late game. Especially with the shift towards more 3-mana creatures, the aggro game has become too unlikely for us.

    2. Various 3-4 color decks featuring Abrupt Decay and Baleful Strix that try to grind out Miracles and other decks in this category. These range from tempo decks (3-4 color "Delver"), to control decks (Shardless, Team America), to combo decks (Food Chain, Aluren).
    The only things these decks have in common is the colors, which come with the inclusion of DRS and decay. Against delver, we throw anything we can in their way until we can stabilize, which mostly implies winning. Against shardless, we win game 1 and hope to grind it out successfully game 2 or 3 in spite of a shit ton of extra removal and sweepers. Against BUGx control, we lose almost by default unless we can tempo them, as their late game is unbeatable. BUG combo is a more complex game altogether, requiring the right hate pieces (mostly ethersworn canonist and revoker) and a much stronger tempo game than against shardless because of the combo's inevitability. Food chain is a terrible match-up for d&t, especially now they have access to walking ballista. Aluren is favored, as our deck is probably the worst way their combo card can backfire.

    Lately, BUGx delver has become more of a problem, because they tend to shift their post side game more towards a midrange build with strong anti-d&t inclusions such as true-name nemesis and dread of night. This evolution is something our sideboard and/or our sideboard strategies needs to address.

    Notably, Mirran Crusader is not as good against every BUG deck. It's at its best against shardless, but much worse against decks which have access to red or have a combo finish. And shardless is hardly the top BUG deck out there nowadays, now that even miracles even has an edge over it because of predict.

    3. Various decks that attack BUG decks (ANT, Burn, Show and Tell, Blood Moon decks). These decks try to beat the BUG decks before they can get established. This can either mean literally winning the game via fast combo with some backup, or by turning greedy manabases against themselves (Blood Moon, Price of Progress).
    This is a very important contrast. Splashing is often very rewarding against the decks in category 2, but it's the decks here that punish it. I haven't seen it much yet, but back to basics stoneblade builds are also a pain for D&t builds with a splash to deal with. Reducing the basic plains count has its costs.

    Still, the raw power of orzhov pontiff and magus of the moon seems like it is worth it. Both are difficult to play around and cause huge blow-outs when they enter the battlefield in various match-ups. The downside is that I do not think you can include cataclysm or armageddon in these type of decks as easily, because their manabase has become much more fragile. Fetchlands also enable opposing DRS in a not insignificant number of games.

    Surgical Extraction seems really poor against this field. It's amazing against Lands and playable against ANT. R/B and other reanimator decks are on a decline; there's just so much incidental hate around in the form of DRS that it's just not a good time to mucking around in graveyards. Can these slots be better utilized? Would we want something like another Containment Priest or RiP over one of these? Is Containment Priest even pulling its weight? Are there other pieces of early interaction that might be better?
    I never really liked containment priest in this deck. It does too little against too few decks and even there, it is a double-sided sword which hurts our gameplan as well.

    I've also been on the fence about trying the deck without Batterskull. I've kept it in there out of fear of the Eldrazi matchup and due to its unique effect, but I do wonder if I can get by without it. Again, I haven't pulled the trigger on this, but I'm willing to discuss it.
    Batterskull is the best piece of equipment against BUG decks, overall. In addition, you have eldrazi and the combo match-ups, where its mana efficiency and ability to stop emty the warrens are unique. Why would the current meta changes precipitate its omission?

    I've also been wondering if we can adjust things by finding cards that overlap well with commons matchups. At what point do we start experimenting with cards like Mindbreak Trap for the ANT matchup since it also happens to cover Food Chain, Aluren, and Elves? Is something like Leyline of Sanctity or Aegis of the Gods fine as something that can overlap with ANT and Burn? Is it time for Canonist #3 or SotL #1? Has the format slowed down enough where we want to hate on lands via Armageddon or Winter Orb, which would interact favorably with the Lands, Miracles, and various BUG matchups? Are there enough BUG matchups around that the SoBaM I was toying around with actually might be good? Are any of the flexible cards (e.g. Blessed Alliance, Warping Wail) covering enough generic ground to be worth it now?
    Mindbreak Trap doesn't do a lot against food chain or elves. If there's one card which is an all-star in all combo decks mentioned (including burn), it is the canonist.

    In my opinion, any mono white list should play either Armageddon or Cataclysm, because it is a card late-game grind, fetch-heavy decks have a very hard time beating unless they have the timely force. Asking around, the fear of spells like cataclysm is the most important reason they do not cut all of their forces post side.

    I've been playing Blessed Alliance for a while. In my latest sb plan, which covered 17 decks, I boarded it in against 11 of them. It's great against any sort of delver, midrange with true-name and/or jitte, eldrazi, infect, burn and reanimator. But it is very reactive, just like Warping Wail. This makes it very vulnerable to discard and to people calling your spell when you have to keep your mana open for it. In particular with Warping Wail this is problematic, because almost half of the lands that can cast it are very suspicious when not used. That, and the presence of so many blood moon effects in the format make me reluctant to include it again.

  20. #7800

    Re: [DTB] Death and Taxes

    Quote Originally Posted by Lio View Post
    Pia and Kiran Nalaar were under consideration, but I am skeptical about double red manacost. Did you have an color mana issue or do you tick up vial@4 and then protect it with Karakas?
    You only tick up to four if you have a Karakas in play and probably turning the corner or winning the game because of Pia and Kia. Sometimes you will flood out in which case you might also leave Vial at 3 and just pay the mana for Pia and Kia with your other lands and a Karakas backed up. I usually like to tap lands for Pia and Kia if one of my lands is a Cavern.

    Also, did you ever find yourself not playing Magus of the Moon, because you lacked second basic Plains?
    I always slam down Magus if I have one basic Plains in play, granted, the Magus could potentially win the game for me singlehandedly without further assistance.

    I have topdecked many Mirran Crusaders, Prelates and Flickerwisps but it never really mattered because I was winning. Depending on what Basics my opponent has in play and the board state I might sandbag the Magus and engineer a board state where Magus wins for me later.

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