the only way to keep Griffins at bay is to resolve a good ETA.
The don't even need to play Food Chain to win.
They resolve a simple M.Fate and cast and recast Griffins/Scourge.
Worst case scenario DRS will exile them again from the GY.
Definitly a bad matchup imho. Additionally they play 4AD and EE for tokens.
Game 1 is rough for this reason. Manipulate fate and griffon are MUST COUNTERS. Game 2/3 you get 8 Red blast effects (with snapcaster), 2 counterspells and 2+ fow so neither shoulder ever resolve. If they do, terminus is also an option. In all my post games, we actually get to be the aggressor since they have a much harder time answering mentor, entreat and jace than we have answering their few cards that actually matter.Originally Posted by Poron
yes, but they hqve inevitability and unless we manage to land a fast, very fast ETA or Mentor we are done for.
In this matchup Meekstone would be great.
No sorry, they play 4 Decays
This is true for game 1 yes, but in game 2-3 WE have the inevitability since we have redundant answers to literally everything they do, more sources of card advantage (predict, snap, jace) to their Manipulate fate and we have more "must answers" than they do.
How do you guys board against ANT with a typical 4 Predict list?
Nobody plays Legacy anymore, the tournaments are all too crowded
-4 Terminus
-2 Plains
-1 Council's Judgment
-4 Swords to Plowshares
+2 Surgical Extraction
+4 REBs
+3 Flusterstorm
+1 Snapcaster Mage
+1 EE
If you see Xantid Swarm instead of bringing in EE and 2 REBs leave in 3 Swords to Plowshares.
Thats how I would assume the boarding works out at least.
Also, 3x Flusterstorms in the SB and 4 REBs seem excessive. Is it wrong to trim the 3rd Flusterstorm and 4th REB for other tech cards?
Do you not play Clique? Or do you just choose to not bring it in?
I usually leave in a couple StP to deal with Swarms, and a couple Terminus and EE to deal with Empty the Warrens. Could be wrong but I prefer not to be completely cold to those cards In g2.
I certainly don't think it's wrong to trim down on Flusters and REBs in favor of more targeted hate as long as you have good reason for doing so. Although I'd rarely want less than 3 RRBs.
Nobody plays Legacy anymore, the tournaments are all too crowded
I'm just riffing off of Anurag's list for boarding. I have 3 REBs, 2 Flusterstorms and 2 Cliques atm because my meta has a lot of different Show and Tell decks present. I mainly cut the 3rd Flusterstorm and 4th REB for tech cards vs those match ups.
Like you I tend to leave a lot of board control cards in post board incase something happens.
Besides Thomas and Anders at BOM, i saw Johannes's placing at the top after the swiss rounds. Anyone can confirm he is on miracles and if so his decklist?
Yes he was on Miracles, I believe it was the same list as Thomas.Besides Thomas and Anders at BOM, i saw Johannes's placing at the top after the swiss rounds. Anyone can confirm he is on miracles and if so his decklist?
Against food chain i keep in all swords..i think it's very important to handle shaman and leovold..just terminus isnt enough.. for example i try to blast griffin so they cant play them again..if they have shaman they just dont care..
Thanks, this looks pretty good. I totally agree with you on the number of Force of Will. Only thing is I think I'd also leave in 2 copies of Swords to Plowshares for Deathrite Shaman, Snap is important in the matchup. Mountain probably isn't needed since they don't play Wasteland? Not sure where the last cut comes from, but that'll depend on the MD. If there's an EE I'd take that out.
Leovold can be Pyroblasted, but I agree I think we want a couple of copies of StP for Shaman.
You could cut all the FoW to keep in 2 swords. I agree about DRS being important to deal with. Mountain is just getting swapped for a plains because I am bringing in a fair number of red cards but still want 20 lands in my deck, if you don't play mountain in your SB, just take out a land to go down to 20 total in game 2/3. I don't have EE in my MD, but I agree that it is too narrow for this matchup.
¡SOME INSIGHT NEEDED!
I played miracles in the pre treasure cruise era before switching to delver variants and now I want to get back playing with the deck.
I noticed skimming various lists on tcdecks and mtgtop8 that nowadays Vendilion clique is not played as much. Are there any reason for this?
Was one of my favourite cards back in the day.... In order to decide which configuration to start with I need to pick up a list, and I am not sure which one to pick as the majority seems different respect each other.
Any help will be much appreciated
Clique is still solid it's just usually played in the SB these days. It's not great game 1 because it turns on dead removal spells in your opponent's hand. it's much stronger against combo with no removal, or against fair decks that side out their removal for g2.
Nobody plays Legacy anymore, the tournaments are all too crowded
so.....
with all these decks playing Leovold, Emissary of Trest at the SCG Tour, that card makes Predict look pretty silly doesn't it? Perhaps we'd be better off with something like Spell Snare or Spell Pierce added in it's place? Perhaps it's time to bring back at least a 1 of Pyroblast into the main deck again? I'm leaning more towards the Pyroblast because of the uptick in True-Name Nemesis as well. I suppose the 2nd counterspell could also be played instead of the Pyroblast, but a maindeck Pyroblast would also free up a sideboard slot.
I'd probably start off with a maindeck that looks like
1 Arid Mesa
4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Island
2 Plains
1 Mountain
3 Tundra
2 Volcanic Island
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Counterbalance
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Terminus
2 Entreat the Angels
1 Counterspell
1 Council's Judgment
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Pyroblast
It doesn't - Leovold Bug/4C MUs play out rather grindy, so without Leovold on the field you want Predict all the time. I'm also not seing how Snare/Pierce compete for the same slots? If you are actually concerned about the card itsself aswell as TNN, Pyroblast makes sense, but still I feel the deck has plenty of ways to answer both G1 even.
I hear these tokens help in the mirror match.
these are amaaaaaazing!
I hear these tokens help in the mirror match.
Agreed - predict is one of our best cards in these matchups. T1 top -> T2 spin + something -> T3 reb a leo or tnn + predict is one of the best things we can be doing and usually translates to the w.
Snap predict also gives us late game play we wouldn't have otherwise to keep up with raw 2-1s.
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