Yes it works, but I can unmask liege, and play a 12/12 trampler that will crush your 1/1's :)Originally Posted by jhhdk
2. jhhdk: Creakwood Liege, Dryad Arbor, Phyrexian Tower, Tel-Jilad Stylus <--- ME
14. Tylert: Dryad arbor, Phyrexian dreadnought, Force of despair, Unmask
I guess I better spell it out to avoid confusion.
OTP:
J: Tower, Stylus
T: Dryad x 2
J: Dryad x 2, FoD
T: Dreadnaught, Attack 1/1 x 1, EoT Stylus on Dryad (19/20)
J: Dryad x 2
T: Attack 12 Trample (7/20)
J: Creawood Liege x 2 Board: 2 x Dryad (3/3), 2 x Liege (4/4) <--- ups error I only have 1 dryad, I just sac'ed one.
T: Attack 12 Trample, 2 x 1/1 Block Dreadnaught w whole team 3/20, EoT Stylus on Dryad
J: Play Dryad I win from here
I have to block with both Lieges so i die.
Now a new line suggested lets do that too:
OTP:
J: Tower, Stylus
T: Dryad x 2, Unmask Liege, EoT Stylus -> Liege
J: Dryads x 2
T: Dreadnaught
J: Liege
Same as before but I stabilize 1 turn faster
No longer relevant.
Last edited by jhhdk; 06-10-2021 at 10:08 AM.
Unmasking creackwood liege seems better for me. You'll only have 1/1's vs my 12/12 trampler. still thinks it 6-0 for me.
I'll just it back with Stylus, so not really.
It will be in your graveyard. stylus works on permanents on the battelfield.
Don't need the Tower for that though. But yeah, the Stylus makes an Arbor token every turn. It's a solid long term plan, albeit rather slow.
EDIT: I need to rethink my life.
Last edited by Asthereal; 06-10-2021 at 10:20 AM.
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Nope.
It works on hand, under my control, under your control, exile, graveyard and (sideboard) edit: it doesn't care about zones.Tap: Put target permanent you own on the bottom of your library.
9. PJim: Unmask, Force of Despair, Cavern of Souls, Phyrexian Dreadnought
Had no time this week, this and 3* Dreadnought were the first things that came to mind. I figured this would do better if there were combo approaches.
1. Asthereal (TO): Chancellor of the Forge, Chancellor of the Forge, Chancellor of the Forge, Leyline of the Meek // 6-0, Dreadnought wins by itself.
2. jhhdk: Creakwood Liege, Dryad Arbor, Phyrexian Tower, Tel-Jilad Stylus // 6-0, FoD the Arbors
3. Wrath of Pie: Remote Farm, Ancient Tomb, Windborn Muse, Hero of Bladehold // 6-0, FoD the Muse and race the Hero.
4. alphastryk: Plains, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Path to Exile // 0-6, Can't handle multiple Dreads.
5. Phasmoid: Elvish Spirit Guide, Thran Quarry, Acquisitions Expert, Shadow Guildmage // 6-0, Dreadnought wins, OTD Acquisitions Expert hits the two black spells with a party size of 1.
6. Reeplcheep: Chancellor of the Tangle, Chancellor of the Tangle, Burning-Tree Emissary , Lodestone Golem // 6-0, Edit: OTP, Unmask Emissary. OTD, I can use FoN while Golem is on the stack to kill the Emissaries, and we're left with 2 5/3s vs a 12/12, which the Dreadnought wins.
7. GoblinSmashmaster: Taiga, Tinder Wall, Priest of Urabrask, Doomskar Titan // 6-0, Force of Despair shuts this down.
8. dte: Sphere of resistance, ancient tomb, phyrexian dreadnought, phyrexian dreadnought // 1-4, OTP I can Unmask a Dreadnought and drop my own.
10. RoosterCocoa: Pendelhaven, Glistener Elf, Tinder Wall, Collective Defiance // 3-3, Easy win on the play, easy loss on the draw.
11. FTW: Force of Despair, Unmask, Crystal Vein, Phyrexian Dreadnought // 3-3, Crystal Vein might win you something more vs dte, otherwise we must be identical.
12. maxx!: Subterranean Hangar, Nether Spirit, Unmask, Force of Despair // 3-3, Faster Unmask wins.
13. Serguei: ancient Tomb, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Phyrexian Revoker // 0-6, Dreadnoughts + FoD trade, Revoker remains.
14. Tylert: Dryad arbor, Phyrexian dreadnought, Force of despair, Unmask // 0-6, Any line resolves with Arbors winning.
15. mattamort: Force of despair, Tidehollow sculler, Wild cantor, Pendelhaven // 3-3, Edit: mattamort is right with his stacking of triggers.
16. silkster: Blackcleave Cliffs, Elvish Spirit Guide, Mesmeric Fiend, Bloodhall Ooze // 3-3, Exactly same as mattamort.
52 points.
Last edited by PJim; 06-10-2021 at 09:29 AM.
That's not true, it'd be much better if it did. Permanents only exist on the battlefield, cards in any other zone are not permanents, they're permanent cards.
110.1. A permanent is a card or token on the battlefield. A permanent remains on the battlefield indefinitely. A card or token becomes a permanent as it enters the battlefield and it stops being a permanent as it’s moved to another zone by an effect or rule.
https://mtg.fandom.com/wiki/Permanent
I sent both a reply and another email immediately Asthereal correcting my entry. Can you confirm you didn’t receive either??
Forest and dross to 2x tangle at 10:02 am est Monday.
I don't have either. Something may have gone wrong there, I'm sorry.
But Tangle does make sense of course. Your deck doesn't function otherwise.
I say we just change that and chalk it up to a typo that got corrected.
Do you have a screenshot of your second PM? Just so everybody knows it was clearly an error on my or the Source's end?
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“Reeplcheep Reeplcheep is online now
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4CB S10 R04 Reeplcheep 2
Quote Originally Posted by Reeplcheep
When in doubt, t1 sphere.
Forest , chancellor of the dross, Burning-Tree Emmissary , [card]Lodestone Golem[/cards]
Forgot tabernacle was banned so I can play around t1 burglar rat; and wrong chancellor.
Chancellor of the tangle , chancellor of the tangle, Burning-Tree Emmissary , Lodestone Golem“
Even if I dont like fixing decks after submission (In case he can not prove he sent a fix), I would be in favor of a switch since it is quite obvious what he had in mind and his deck does nothing as is.
It reminds me the day where my oppo submitted Urborg instead of urborg tomb of yawgmoth in a PTQ leading him to a very bad play experience. In competitive play, I understand the need but not really in 4CB :D
That's indeed exactly how a PM would look if you just copy it. I just tried it. I already adjusted the main post.
EVERYBODY: Reep's deck has changed due to either me screwing up or the Source not sending me a message.
Reep's deck now works as intended, with two Chancellor of the Tangle a Burning-Tree Emissary and a Lodestone Golem.
Most of us have just assumed his deck would work already and posted their results based on that, but if you haven't, please adjust your results accordingly. Thanks.
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I'm sure everyone saw Dreadnought, and pure Aggro might not have been the best plan, but hopefully it wasn't a terrible one! Lets see how I did.
1. Asthereal (TO): Chancellor of the Forge, Chancellor of the Forge, Chancellor of the Forge, Leyline of the Meek
Dreadnought > Tokens. WW
6-0
2. jhhdk: Creakwood Liege, Dryad Arbor, Phyrexian Tower, Tel-Jilad Stylus
I might be missing something, but the way I see your deck working is this: t1: Arbor (x2). t2: Tower, sac the token to make Liege. t3: Stylus, bottom Arbor after it attacks to replay next turn. Dreadnought it too fast, and Path can remove an Arbor to prevent Liege. WW
6-0
3. Wrath of Pie: Remote Farm, Ancient Tomb, Windborn Muse, Hero of Bladehold
Dreadnought is fast, but I can't beat Muse with Path because you get 2 copies. LL
0-6
4. alphastryk: Plains, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Path to Exile
me
5. Phasmoid: Elvish Spirit Guide, Thran Quarry, Acquisitions Expert, Shadow Guildmage
OTP, I get a Dreadnought down first and that should be enough. OTD, if you make double Expert, I reveal Path and then a Dreadnought but my remaining Dreadnought is enough to get the job done. WW
6-0
6. Reeplcheep: Chancellor of the Tangle, Chancellor of the Tangle, Burning-Tree Emissary , Lodestone Golem
Golem doesn't stop Dreadnoughts. WW
6-0
7. GoblinSmashmaster: Taiga, Tinder Wall, Priest of Urabrask, Doomskar Titan
OTD I die to your hasty team. OTP I can play out a giant blocker and go to 6, then another giant blocker, so you can't win by attacking. If you leave your team back after I'm at 6, I can Path your Titan and attack with 1 Dreadnought which is enough. WL
3-3
8. dte: Sphere of resistance, ancient tomb, phyrexian dreadnought, phyrexian dreadnought
Sphere means you will always have more Dreadnoughts than I will. LL
0-6
9. PJim: Unmask, Force of Despair, Cavern of Souls, Phyrexian Dreadnought
No matter how you use Unmask or Force of Despair, it only deals with 1 of 3 relevant spells (Dreadnoughts + Path), so I'll always be able to beat a single Dreadnought. WW
6-0
10. RoosterCocoa: Pendelhaven, Glistener Elf, Tinder Wall, Collective Defiance
OTD I lose my hand, OTP I get to play out a Dreadnought first, which always races the Elves. WL
3-3
11. FTW: Force of Despair, Unmask, Crystal Vein, Phyrexian Dreadnought
No matter how you use Unmask or Force of Despair, it only deals with 1 of 3 relevant spells (Dreadnoughts + Path), so I'll always be able to beat a single Dreadnought. WW
6-0
12. maxx!: Subterranean Hangar, Nether Spirit, Unmask, Force of Despair
No matter how you use Unmask or Force of Despair, it only deals with 1 Dreadnought. WW
6-0
13. Serguei: ancient Tomb, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Phyrexian Revoker
I should always be able to Path one of your Dreadnoughts and win, as your 2 Revokers are just Goblin Pikers. WW
6-0
14. Tylert: Dryad arbor, Phyrexian dreadnought, Force of despair, Unmask
No matter how you use Unmask or Force of Despair, it only deals with 1 Dreadnought. WW
6-0
15. mattamort: Force of despair, Tidehollow sculler, Wild cantor, Pendelhaven
No matter how you use Sculler or Force of Despair, it only deals with 1 Dreadnought. WW
16. silkster: Blackcleave Cliffs, Elvish Spirit Guide, Mesmeric Fiend, Bloodhall Ooze
I *think* without doing math that your double Fiend isn't enough - I'll always end up with Path (slows me down a turn to be forced to Path a Fiend and get Dreadnought back), and I think a single Dreadnought still races double Ooze. WW
6-0
Total: 66 points!
Turns out the obvious Dreadnought deck worked pretty well
Me and mattamort disagree on our result. Me and Tylert agree on our result, but disagree as to why that's the result.
"confirmed" means
the other person agrees with me
and
that person does not substantially disagree as to why
and
I do not find the match to be extremely tricky
.
me: Elvish Spirit Guide, Thran Quarry, Acquisitions Expert, Shadow Guildmage
Acquisitions Expert gives T1 double-discard, and I have inevitability:
I can put my Shadow Guildmage card on top of my library
during your end-step and re-cast it my next turn,
to give me 1 new Shadow Guildmage token each 2 turns.
1. Asthereal (TO): Chancellor of the Forge, Chancellor of the Forge, Chancellor of the Forge, Leyline of the Meek WW 6-0 confirmed
The discard doesn't affect you, but I play T1 Acquisitions Expert anyway. Leyline is symmetric, so my Acquisitions Expert token blocks your goblins forever, killing one each time, which means you can't do more than 6+4+2 = 12 damage to me. Thus, I win by inevitability.
2. jhhdk: Creakwood Liege, Dryad Arbor, Phyrexian Tower, Tel-Jilad Stylus WW 6-0
jhhdk's results post now agrees with me, but this is extremely tricky when I'm OTD. If I have an error then it's most likely with this game.
when I am OTP:
I start with Shadow Guildmage, and the threat of attacking forces you to play a land. If that land is the Tower, then T2 Acquisitions Expert takes Dryad Arbor, since a Shadow Guildmage is part of my party so you can't hide it both times. In that case, I win since Stylus won't help you and you can't play Liege. Thus, suppose you play T1 Dryad Arbor. On my T2, I ping the card (not the token), so that again, Stylus won't help you and you can't play Liege. That costs me only 1 life, and then two 1/1s beats a single 1/1.
For when I'm OTD, see my long comment on the next page.
3. Wrath of Pie: Remote Farm, Ancient Tomb, Windborn Muse, Hero of Bladehold WW 6-0 confirmed
The most you can do on your T1 is playing 1 of your lands, so you will still have 2 cards for my T1 double-discard. If you discard either land, then you can't play either of your creatures anyway. Thus my Acquisitions Expert wins.
4. alphastryk: Plains, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Path to Exile LL 0-6 confirmed
I have no answer to T1 Dreadnought.
5. Phasmoid: Elvish Spirit Guide, Thran Quarry, Acquisitions Expert, Shadow Guildmage this is me
6. Reeplcheep: Chancellor of the Tangle, Chancellor of the Tangle, Burning-Tree Emmissary , Lodestone Golem LL 0-6 confirmed
T1 Acquisitions Expert does not disrupt you, since you discard both of your Chancellor of the Tangle s .
Due to the tax, regardless of which of my creatures I cast, I won't be able to cast another unless I first kill a Golem. The extra toughness of Acquisitions Expert does not help against the Golems, and the Experts would have no way of killing a Golem, so I try Shadow Guildmage. The only way _those_ can kill a Golem is by pinging and giving up both of my creatures for only one Golem, which is a win for you. Otherwise, pinging you first is not nearly enough, so your 5/3s beat my 1/1s.
7. GoblinSmashmaster: Taiga, Tinder Wall, Priest of Urabrask, Doomskar Titan WL 3-3 confirmed
when I am OTP:
I start with Acquisitions Expert. After you discard 2 cards, you will no longer be able to play any threats, so I will win by inevitability.
when I am OTD:
I had the right result anyway, but Reeplcheep pointed out that I was making things much more complicated than they actually are. The Priests don't die, so you T1 attack me for 20.
8. dte: Sphere of resistance, ancient tomb, phyrexian dreadnought, phyrexian dreadnought LL 0-6 confirmed
I have no answer to T1 Dreadnought.
9. PJim: Unmask, Force of Despair, Cavern of Souls, Phyrexian Dreadnought LL 0-6 confirmed
I have no answer to T1 Dreadnought.
10. RoosterCocoa: Pendelhaven, Glistener Elf, Tinder Wall, Collective Defiance WL 3-3 confirmed
When I am OTD, you T1 make me discard my whole hand, then Glistener Elf wins for you.
when I am OTP:
This is slightly trickier than I initially thought.
I play T1 Acquisitions Expert. You have to discard at least 1 card other than Glistener Elf, so you can't cast your sorcery. If you discard Pendelhaven or Glistener Elf, then you can't get a threat either, in which case I win by inevitability. Thus, you discard Tinder Wall and Collective Defiance. If you don't play your Elf, then my 1/2s win, so you play T1 Pendelhaven and Glistener Elf. I play T2 Shadow Guildmage, and take up to 3 poison on your T2. I will never ping more than twice, so there's no need to track my life total. Starting on my T3, my Shadow Guildmages are no longer summoning-sick, and I keep one of them and my land to ping in response to you pumping. Thus, the only way pumping can help you is if you block and then counterattack on the next turn (since you will untap in-between but I won't). I keep attacking with my other Shadow Guildmage. Without a useful pump, you can't usefully counterattack (my 1/2s block), so you block. If you pump, then whichever you pump dies before combat damage, so the best the block can do for you is a trade. On your next turn, I take up to 2 poison. After that, you won't have another creature left to pump if Glistener Elf dies to a ping, so my Shadow Guildmage means pumping can no longer help you. Thus, since I have taken at most 3+2 = 5 poison, I win by having one 1/2 attack while the other stays on defense until you've blocked.
then you can't cast a creature either, in which case my 1/2s win. win by In this case, you can only do 2 damage during your T2, after which my Experts would block and kill your Elves if your Elves attack since Shadow Guildmage can ping in response to you pumping, so I win by inevitability.
11. FTW: Force of Despair, Unmask, Crystal Vein, Phyrexian Dreadnought LL 0-6 confirmed
I have no answer to T1 Dreadnought.
12. maxx!: Subterranean Hangar, Nether Spirit, Unmask, Force of Despair LL 0-6 confirmed
If I start by playing a creature, then you discard Hangar and Spirit if applicable, and pitch Unmask to FoD to kill my whole board. In that case, Nether Spirit wins for you, so I try doing nothing. You can pitch FoD to unmask to discard my Shadow Guildmage, and then get Spirit onto the battlefield either from your Hangar or from your graveyard. Your Spirits land no later than the turn after I play Expert, so I can't even attack first, so your 2/2s beat my 1/2s.
13. Serguei: ancient Tomb, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Phyrexian Dreadnought, Phyrexian Revoker LL 0-6 confirmed
I have no answer to T1 Dreadnought.
14. Tylert: Dryad arbor, Phyrexian dreadnought, Force of despair, Unmask LL 0-6
We agree on the result but disagree as to why.
If I'm OTP and play T1 Expert and you FoD it, then you'd have to discard both of your remaining cards, which would be a draw. If I'm OTP and play T1 Expert and you don't FoD it, then showing me Dreadnought would _lose_, since my 1/2s would beat your 1/1s.
If I start with Shadow Guildmage, then you pitch Unmask to FoD to kill my whole board and win with Dryad Arbor, so I instead start with Expert. You can discard FoD and Unmask, then play your land. I play Shadow Guildmage and attack with my Experts, you can take the 2 then make a Dreadnought. Even if I could make a new Shadow Guildmage token each turn, my next 3 turns would not let me get more than 9 total toughness or 7 total power, so 3 attacks by the Dreadnought will kill me. If somehow all of my creatures had haste and I could make a new Shadow Guildmage token each turn without that interfering with my attacks and you couldn't block, then the total damage I could deal before the 3 Dreadnought attacks would be 2+5+6+7 = 20. However, none of those things are true, so the Dreadnought wins for you.
15. mattamort: Force of despair, Tidehollow sculler, Wild cantor, Pendelhaven DL 1-4 disagreement
mattamort reports WL for this. I believe he's missing that FoD kills my land too.
If I play a creature, then you can pitch Tidehollow Sculler to FoD to kill my whole board. In particular, I can't win and when you are OTP, Wild Cantor wins for you. That leaves the question, do I lose when I'm OTP. I have to try T1 Expert. If you discard your land or Wild Cantor, then you can't play a threat, so suppose you discard FoD and Tidehollow Sculler. You play your land and Wind Cantor, then I play Shadow Guildmage. On your next turn, I let you deal 3 damage to me, and then my Shadow Guildmages become no longer summoning-sick. Once that happens, my 1/2s can block your 1/1s for at least a draw, since if you pump then I ping in response, costing me at most 1 more life. Thus, I don't lose when I'm OTP.
16. silkster: Blackcleave Cliffs, Elvish Spirit Guide, Mesmeric Fiend, Bloodhall Ooze WL 3-3
When I am OTD, T1 Mesmeric Fiend exiles Shadow Guildmage and one of my other creatures, which is a win for you.
when I am OTP:
I start with Acquisitions Expert. You have to discard at least 1 card other than Bloodhall Ooze, so you won't be able to cast Mesmeric Fiend. As a result, you'll only be able to play your land and Ooze, and the Oozes will be stuck at 1/1, so my 1/2s win.
as stated at the top of this post:
Me and mattamort disagree on our result. Me and Tylert agree on our result, but disagree as to why that's the result.
If the results I have are correct, then I get 28 points.
Last edited by Phasmoid; 06-12-2021 at 01:01 AM. Reason: updated due to checking and my new analysis
You had a 33% chance to choose the right deck. GJ.
It worked out this time, that's for sure.
On an unrelated note, I made a minor change in the google sheet lookup formula so that if the lookup fails it defaults to a score of 0 for that round, which means we don't have to manually put 0s into the Table anymore when someone doesn't participate in a given round. (There's a pretty cool function called IFERROR that lets you choose a default value)
EDIT:
I don't attack into your Fiends. Instead I keep my 2/2s back for defence.
I'll have 3 2/2s against your 1/1, 1/2, 2/2 and 2/3.
If you attack with the 2/3, I'll double-block it. One of mine dies, and yours does as well.
Now I have two 2/2s against your 1/1, 1/2 and 2/2.
Now I can block and trade with the 2/2.
From here you have a 1/1 and a 1/2 against my 2/2.
If you attack with the 1/2, I'll attack back, and oh...
You can now use the ability of Mage to trade and be left with a guy against my nothing.
Sad face.
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Every single deck makes tokens, that's the round rule.
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