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Thread: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

  1. #281
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    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Manroe View Post
    Maybe I should clarify slightly what I meant. I don't think boarding decisions are all that hard. I actually board much like I used to with Elves when I played that awhile back. I just shave down numbers of combo pieces slightly, leaving all of the tutors and go from there. If I'm bringing in bridges, I likely want to hedge on Bob and etc. What I meant was more along the lines of colored mana for non-creature spells isn't always guaranteed and I'm not always confident I'll have it. I think this can be limiting in what exactly makes up the sideboard.

    For example, something like abrade doesn't seem terrible to me on paper but between accelerating out my pieces and a lot of chalices on 0 game 2 and 3, I can't always expect to have red with my current mana base. I hope that makes sense.
    No that makes perfect sense. I agree that going 4-Color/Humans means that you just can't reasonably sideboard a colored non-creature spell. Outside of Petal/Opal and a tutor/Karn turning on LED, you need to go to Spire of Industry to get access to non-white "natural" colored mana, and that's not really enough to support a card like Abrade. I was asking more what matchup you were trying to shore up by including one, but if your comment was meant as a general "this means I can't Abrade", yes, I have to agree.

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    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Rationalist View Post
    No that makes perfect sense. I agree that going 4-Color/Humans means that you just can't reasonably sideboard a colored non-creature spell. Outside of Petal/Opal and a tutor/Karn turning on LED, you need to go to Spire of Industry to get access to non-white "natural" colored mana, and that's not really enough to support a card like Abrade. I was asking more what matchup you were trying to shore up by including one, but if your comment was meant as a general "this means I can't Abrade", yes, I have to agree.
    I've been wondering with Sai in the pipeline, maybe this could change a bit. Glimmervoid could be more viable as well as something like Ghiapur Aether Grid post-board.

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    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Manroe View Post
    Also as far as Sai goes, perhaps I'm too bought into the hype, but wouldn't he be about as good as mentor in this deck or perhaps even better? Am I reading too far into the fact that he has two parts of the combo stapled onto a body that can't be bolted, K-commanded or abraded in response?
    You could be right.

    I haven't actually tested Sai, so any input I have on him in particular doesn't have a lot of weight. He doesn't strike me as superior to Monastery Mentor though as the scenarios you raise strike me as being too narrow to make up for the lack of tempo.

    Still, I'd be thrilled to be proven wrong, so go test a build with him and tell us all how you like him. =)

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    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Manroe View Post
    I've been wondering with Sai in the pipeline, maybe this could change a bit. Glimmervoid could be more viable as well as something like Ghiapur Aether Grid post-board.

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    Oh, Glimmervoid.

    My early testing with Glimmervoid was not positive, but the last thing you should do is let any of us randos here stop you from doing the experiment. It sounds like you're wanting to do a 4-Color build that is more Spire-of-Industry/Glimmervoid than Unclaimed Territory, meaning your Manabase would be a bit weaker, but that you could support cards like Ghirapur Aether Grid and Abrade, etc.

    It's certainly an experiment you could do. I'm a little skeptical (also keep in mind the tension with Cavern here), but that might just mean that I don't share your vision in where you're going with all of these colored non-creature spells. I've certainly toyed around with some strange builds of the deck just for fun before. (I even tried goldfishing a 4x Horizon Canopy, 4x Managorger Hydra once just for fun. It was about as good as I thought'd be, but hey, that's how it goes)

    Let us know how it works out.
    Last edited by Rationalist; 06-25-2018 at 02:49 PM.

  5. #285

    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Some great discussion here so far everyone. Just wanted to keep you all updated on how the Sai build has been going so far through my limited Cockatrice testing.

    • He is definitely not as good as Mentor, his damage output being pretty mediocre. I win many games by going "all in" on Mentor, but going all-in on Sai leads you to an anaemic army that eventually cannot finish the job. Do not think that Sai will ever replace Mentor - nothing can come close to Mentor's raw damage output. Not dying to Red removal is very notable though and gives you access to some very nice plays.
    • His grind ability is a bit overrated, because usually you don't want to two-for-one yourself to get the card draw, but it is definitely useful to have (especially since it can lead to comboing on the spot). Other than Opal/Petal, there is usually not many artifacts we want to sacrifice (eg. you'll often have a trinket around and think... "Well, I'll just crack it instead of sacrificing anything..." ), but I'm sure in elongated games it's useful.
    • A given: he really sucks against Karakas and D&T in particular. Even the Thopters get pretty quickly bricked by say a Serra Avenger, unlike Monks that can usually buff up large enough to push through anything.
    • His ability to create Metalcraft effectively (particularly for Mox Opal) is really appreciated, and makes me happy not to run artifact lands overall. Unlike mono-White builds though, Mox Opals are never a reliable "early" mana source, but on turn two + they will usually be turned on. As an a bit of an aside, I think Mono-White's greatest strength is the ability for Mox Opal to be both an early acceleration piece (Den + Opal + trinket leads to t1 Chalice, for example), while in non-artifact land builds (ie. any splash build) Mox Opal will always be a mana source reliable more so on turn two or three onwards and unlikely as an early acceleration piece. This makes mono-White still a very valid choice, even with Sai now in the picture.
    • I forgot how dope Trinket Mage is. Curving Sai into Mage even just as a cantrip into more cantrips is pretty awesome.
    • Triggering Sai with Ballista is very, very cool.
    • Karn tokens + Sai tokens is gross (in a good way). Again, I can't stress how continually impressed I am with Karn as card that just fits all the roles we want to be doing. The UW build is even better at the token beatdown plan thanks to Sai and Karn's ability to fuel the tokens (via drawing more trinkets) or just make tokens himself and add to the board is much appreciated. I've won by comboing out less and less with this version of the deck, and have won more games via token swarms (note: this makes Deluge etc. even better against us than it already was).


    I think in Rationalist's Humans build Sai will not make the cut - there's just not enough space - and I think a card like Bob etc. are certainly better.

    tl;dr, Sai is good as a supplement, but not a replacement, to Mentor, and probably has best a home in a purely UW build. 3+ colour builds have better options.

    EDIT: Rationalist, just read your thorough post and wanted to say I agree 100% with you on everything. Mono-White, UW, Humans are all taking a different approach to the same core, with Humans having the best combo ability of all the versions g1 due to the tutor abundance (but weakest mana base) and Mono-White and UW having less combo ability but varying strengths in fair alternative plans (mono-White - stronger mana, better Opals, better Karn shell; UW - "additional" Mentors and emphasis on token beatdown, slightly weaker mana than mono-White, less explosive Opals).

  6. #286

    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    4-0 train derailed!

    Lost to burn tonight which was rough.

    G1- I t1 chalice and feel great. He hits me with an Eidolon twice then I drop a ballista for 2 to take care of it. I cast a Karn then he goes price, price, fireblast to kill me out of nowhere.

    G2- I combo kill him on T2

    G3- hand was decent, IIRC -- 2x chalice, plains, opal, 2x prelate, urza's bauble -- any artifact or land and we're golden. However, topdeck was not kind as I saw opal, mentor, then tomb and by then I was too far behind. If plains was Ancient Den I think I stand a better chance.

    Speaking of which, I had decided to try out the Ancient Dens tonight but couldn't find them anywhere. Fitting their absence caused a game loss.

    I also switched up my playmats so perhaps jinxed myself. But this one just arrived and it's too perfect not to play:



    I've had a blast playing the deck and will likely run it at the next large tournament I play in just to see how it performs on the big stage. I'm done with it at locals for the time being, as I've got some other stuff waiting in the wings. It's funny -- I was waiting forever for an Imperial Recruiter reprint so I could finally play Bomberman and as soon as it happens I find myself preferring a mono-color "budget" version. Cheers.

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    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    I went 3-1 tonight at the same event Kaono was at, losing the 4-0 shot to a novice TES player in the finals who just had it Game 2. It was also the final round feature match, but it's not really that interesting to watch, given how few turns the entire match went and the pace of play involved.

    The tutors pulled their weight all night, pulling Salvagers into double LEDs to insta-combo, pulling in second Chalices and Sanctum Prelates to double-chalice people same-turn with LED. Running no basics certainly is a con against the Lands match-up, but I managed to pull past Jeremy Edwards on Lands tonight first round with a quick Game 1 combo and just Mentor beats Game 3, and Manic Vandal is definitely a card I want in that match.

    Match 2 was the Burn player Kaono played Round 1 (who may have a slightly skewed view of how common the deck is given they are just returning to the format, and I understand we've both played against them in previous weeks). Very fun games, but not a lot of particular insight into the deck. Tutored up extra lock pieces and won at my pleasure.

    Match 3 was against Death and Taxes, and while I managed to win the match, I definitely think a mono-White list would have an easier Game 1 in the matchup. Thalia forced me to fetch Ballista (which I am light on, comparatively since the tutors also access it), which then met a Revoker before I could take out the Thalia. After that I switched plans to Comboing off with Salvagers and LED at a +1 Rate with no net mana-generation just to go infinite with Monks, but Flickerwisp on Chalice ruined that plan as well. I managed to take games 2 and 3 without a lot of hastle after getting access to the sideboard, but Death and Taxes is certainly a matchup where the lack of Karakas is palpable.

    Also the commentators during the feature match last night seemed to briefly confuse me with Kaono, and attributed to me his entire recent winning streak, so by my reasoning that puts me at 19-1 on the night, which I think is pretty good.

    Takeaway for the night: Although they're both winnable enough and I won both of the respective matches tonight, the Human/Unclaimed-Territory build certainly is taking some cost in the Lands and D&T Matchups. Funnily enough I've not felt any comparative problem with the Red-Prison matchup, as I can deal with opposing Chalices much easier, which also means not only are Opal/Petal as consistent as usual, but Imperial + LED for colored mana as well. I feel Neutral to Better in most other matchups, but Lands and D&T feel like a pivot point for deciding what kind of a build of the deck you want with respect to color choice.

    Oh, and it's typically a much less significant note (and forgive me if I've mentioned this before), but on the Humans build I just can't beat a Humility effect. Like, in a million years. I still feel better in most match-ups, but when talking about color-differences, it's probably worth noting that a Human build is pretty cold to Humility, and there are some random Nyx Fit and Mythstill decks floating around local metas.

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    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by ChemicalBurns View Post
    Some great discussion here so far everyone. Just wanted to keep you all updated on how the Sai build has been going so far through my limited Cockatrice testing.

    • Karn tokens + Sai tokens is gross (in a good way). Again, I can't stress how continually impressed I am with Karn as card that just fits all the roles we want to be doing. The UW build is even better at the token beatdown plan thanks to Sai and Karn's ability to fuel the tokens (via drawing more trinkets) or just make tokens himself and add to the board is much appreciated. I've won by comboing out less and less with this version of the deck, and have won more games via token swarms (note: this makes Deluge etc. even better against us than it already was).
    This is interesting. Would this make the UW build the strongest Game 1 Fair plan you've identified, than?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChemicalBurns View Post
    I think in Rationalist's Humans build Sai will not make the cut - there's just not enough space - and I think a card like Bob etc. are certainly better.

    tl;dr, Sai is good as a supplement, but not a replacement, to Mentor, and probably has best a home in a purely UW build. 3+ colour builds have better options.
    As much as I enjoy tinkering with new cards, I had assumed as much, yeah.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChemicalBurns View Post
    EDIT: Rationalist, just read your thorough post and wanted to say I agree 100% with you on everything.
    Ahw

    EDIT:

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaono View Post
    Cheers.
    Cheers. Sad to see your run end, and hope to see you around in the future. That was a streak to be proud of.
    Last edited by Rationalist; 06-29-2018 at 04:53 PM.

  9. #289

    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Rationalist View Post
    This is interesting. Would this make the UW build the strongest Game 1 Fair plan you've identified, than?
    I think this Blue-White build and mono-White are about the same in terms of power level. Blue-White feels a little "slower" because Opals are not as consistent early in the game (though there is possibly that the mana base could be tweaked for this...), but you combo a little more consistently due to Trinket Mage and I've felt the Delver matchup improve significantly with Sai (we can now block fliers and our token producer doesn't die to Bolt = big deal). But we were already pretty reasonable against those. I think mono-White is a much better Karn shell due to the early explosion of mana leading to very threatening Karns and the artifact lands making his tokens typically huge.

    Edit: Thinking about tweaking the mana base... I really should have a one-of Ancient Den to fetch with Trinket Mage at least.

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    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Rationalist View Post
    This is interesting. Would this make the UW build the strongest Game 1 Fair plan you've identified, than?



    As much as I enjoy tinkering with new cards, I had assumed as much, yeah.



    Ahw

    EDIT:



    Cheers Joel. Sad to see your run end, and hope to see you around in the future. That was a streak to be proud of.
    I agree with you on this point exactly. D&T is tough (I'm 3-0 against it in tourney play luckily) and Lands is the only archetype I have lost to twice.

    Against D&T it usually comes down to Quicksmith Rebel and Magus of the Disk for me. However, I moved Engineered Explosives main and am trying out a Pyrite Spellbomb - - both of which help here. Give it a shot Rationalist and see what you think.

    Also, what about trying to find a win con that can win when we are mana neutral? I've run into Spheres ,Thorns and Thalia's between these decks and I had considered that Altar of the Brood would be a way to win through our loop. Haven't tested yet because it seemed cute but just a thought.

    EDIT: I quoted the wrong part on my phone, sorry if this is confusing.

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    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Manroe View Post
    Against D&T it usually comes down to Quicksmith Rebel and Magus of the Disk for me. However, I moved Engineered Explosives main and am trying out a Pyrite Spellbomb - - both of which help here. Give it a shot Rationalist and see what you think.
    I'm happy to test most anything, and I definitely would be amenable to potential sideboard improvements; how are you reliably providing the Natural Red for the Pyrite Spellbomb though? Also what makes it preferable to other options that also function in matchups where you may still want to Chalice on 1? Could you sell me a bit on why you like Spellbomb? (Outside of the card's historical connection to the origin of the name "Bomberman", if I have my history straight)

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    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Rationalist View Post
    I'm happy to test most anything, and I definitely would be amenable to potential sideboard improvements; how are you reliably providing the Natural Red for the Pyrite Spellbomb though? Also what makes it preferable to other options that also function in matchups where you may still want to Chalice on 1? Could you sell me a bit on why you like Spellbomb? (Outside of the card's historical connection to the origin of the name "Bomberman", if I have my history straight)
    Well I've only used it in one tourney so far but I like having an out that lets me draw the deck that turn and another colorless way to kill a hate bear in D&T. The red may be hard to come by at times, but I haven't had issues yet.
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  13. #293

    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Question:

    What is our side in/out plan in mono White build against fair decks and combo decks?

    Can Karn be a Flex slot Agaist fair decks ? Do you guys anytime sideout the combo ? Auriok/led ?

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    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    re: cris_rj

    Kaono was on that build for a while, and mentioned that he wasn't positive on exactly how to sideboard consistently, but followed 'a few basic rules' that served him well. He also might not see your post, as he's currently off the deck and started up a developmental thread on Spirit Tribal instead. I'd consider giving him a PM.
    Last edited by Rationalist; 06-29-2018 at 04:44 PM.

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    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by cris_rj View Post
    Question:

    What is our side in/out plan in mono White build against fair decks and combo decks?

    Can Karn be a Flex slot Agaist fair decks ? Do you guys anytime sideout the combo ? Auriok/led ?
    I earlier mentioned my plan was to sideboard in a similar fashion as Elves - - shaving down numbers of combo pieces and maybe a bauble or two. I'm. Not sure how correct this is, but it feels right (I'm on humans build). Against fair decks I often take Chalice out.

    One thing I've been asking myself is if it is worth keeping Chalice of the Void in the deck vs D&T. On one hand, turning off swords (and SB paths) is a big deal, especially if we sideboard the way I mentioned above. I think the potential to kill a vial on the play is also a good idea. However, getting it bounced by Flickerwisp feels really rough. What do you guys think? Could this be mitigated by boarding something like Spellskite?





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    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by Manroe View Post
    One thing I've been asking myself is if it is worth keeping Chalice of the Void in the deck vs D&T. On one hand, turning off swords (and SB paths) is a big deal, especially if we sideboard the way I mentioned above. I think the potential to kill a vial on the play is also a good idea. However, getting it bounced by Flickerwisp feels really rough. What do you guys think? Could this be mitigated by boarding something like Spellskite?
    I think Chalice is pretty weak against DnT, even more so because of the Flickerwisp interaction you mentioned. I don't think it's worth trying to salvage with a Spellskite; that strikes me as way too much effort to support a card that's already marginal against them even if Flickerwisp didn't turn it into an actual liability. I'd just consider the Chalices first cuts when boarding. One of the reasons why I'm a proponent of positioning without too much care for Game 1 against Death and Taxes in the first place is that it's an awkward matchup pre-board regardless where your overall plan against them leans a bit harder on the post-board games. I don't think Chalice is worth trying to salvage against them; you're going to be cutting a good amount of cards against them anyways and the Chalices are at the bottom of the heap.

  17. #297

    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Okay 3-1ed the recent weekly with Blue-White. Proxy event, so everyone was happy to try some new M19 cards during spoiler season.

    Creatures: (15)
    4 Auriok Salvagers
    4 Monastery Mentor
    3 Sai, Master Thopterist
    2 Trinket Mage
    2 Walking Ballista

    Non-Creature Spells: (26)
    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Urza's Bauble
    4 Mishra's Bauble
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    2 Karn, Scion of Urza
    1 Engineered Explosives
    4 Lotus Petal
    3 Mox Opal

    Lands: (19)
    4 Ancient Tomb
    2 City of Traitors
    4 Cavern of Souls
    4 Flooded Strand
    2 Tundra
    1 Plains
    1 Karakas
    1 Inventors' Fair

    Sideboard: (15)
    2 Containment Priest
    2 Sanctum Prelate
    2 Seal of Cleansing
    2 Swords to Plowshares
    2 Sorcerous Spyglass
    2 Warping Wail
    1 Engineered Explosives
    1 Tormod's Crypt
    1 Surge Node

    Round 1: Czech Pile

    Game 1: I lost the role, my opponent opened with turn one Thoughtseize to see a hand of Mentor, Sai and Salvagers. These all looked pretty good, and really showed already how the heightened threat density was appreciated against Pile. Sai came down triggering once before dying to Decay, but this helped a Mox Opal stay turned on and eventually lead me to combo out with a Trinket Mage fetching LED after I drew another Salvagers.

    -4 Chalice of the Void
    -3 Lion's Eye Diamond
    +2 Swords to Plowshares
    +2 Sorcerous Spyglass
    +1 Engineered Explosives
    +2 Warping Wail

    Plow, Spyglass and EE I'm happy to have, the Wails less so, since they only really hit DRS, counter and Edict or Deluge. I think when I'm on the play I should be boarding in Chalice on 1 over WW and StP (even though this leaves you very prone to Leovold), but on the draw I will agree that it's less effective.

    Game 2: I whiff a bit and draw a lot of useless Spyglasses as my relevant cards are stripped from my hand and a burly sideboard Goyf comes down. Sai comes down, makes a token and my opponent waits a turn and let's me untap before he Decays it. I get to use my mana to draw two cards (2 Salvagers) but my life total is too low from Tombs and I die.

    Game 3: I get to turn one Spyglass my opponent, they let it resolve and I name their in-play Delta, turning off both their land drop and in play DRS (no fetches either side). Mentor beats win from there.

    Round 2: Mono-Blue Painter

    Game 1: Turn one Stone, turn one Mentor from me, turn two Painter, turn three I'm dead.

    -3 Sai, Master Thopterist
    -4 Chalice of the Void
    -2 Karn, Scion of Urza
    -1 Walking Ballista
    +2 Warping Wail
    +2 Swords to Plowshares
    +2 Seal of Cleansing
    +2 Sorcerous Splyglass
    +1 Engineered Explosives
    +1 Surge Node

    I think I boarded wrong here - I thought this was a bit of a combo race, turns out, my opponent brought in so much hate that I should've been on token beatdown plan.

    Game 2: I draw Mentor, two Petals and a Warping Wail but bizarrely that gets there, as my opponent draws tonnes of hate (2 Crypt, a Spyglass on Salvagers) but I just beatdown with a motley crew of Monks and an Eldrazi Scion. He tries to get a Bridge in play on the penultimate turn but he can't empty his hand of a FoW and I attack through.

    -3 Lion's Eye Diamond
    +3 Sai, Master Thopterist

    I have Ballista into Mentor, but he eventually fetches his Ballista and kills my Mentor and Ballista (he has a lot of sol lands, and puts it on 3) with a Trinket Mage. I'm sputtering out of gas and my opponent is filtering through with Thirst for Knowledge etc. I have a land and Plow in hand, flodding out a bit. Eventually I draw Sai, play a Petal, get a Thopter, sac some leftover mana rocks to draw more, trigger more Sai and start churning through my deck again. My opponent goes to combo but my Plow saves the day and Sai beatdown wins!

    Round 3: Maverick

    I've consistently beat this opponent, but Game 1 saw all the flaws of this list come out.

    I have a turn one Chalice into turn two Sai + rocks. I play Chalice, my opponent Wastelands me. I have two Strands in hand ... And proceed to draw the other two, the last of which has no fetchables land available for it. Bad deck building, Sean. My opponent's turn two play is a Thalia with Karakas as a White source. Sai looks very embarassing compared to the Ballista he would've been. I can never get to four (or more) mana to cast Salvagers, Karn or whatever in my hand and soon die to Pridemage, Thalia and Knight beats.

    -4 Chalice of the Void
    -3 Sai, Master Thopterist
    +2 Sorcerous Splyglass
    +2 Swords to Plowshares
    +2 Warping Wail
    +1 Engineered Explosives

    I um and err about taking Sai out. Should I just go for full comboing? I think skewed by the awkward game 1 I am jaded, but do remember unlike D&T Maverick only ones one Karakas. I think I was just unlucky.

    Game 2: I have Mentor beating down but soon my opponent assembles a burly board of Knight, Prelate on zero and a SFM ready to deploy a Jitte. I have a Ballista on one, (killed an Arbor at some stage), Salvagers. They also a ready to Marit Lage me... Luckily, I draw LED on the final turn, pump Ballista to kill Prelate and go off. Very, very lucky.

    Game 3: I struggle with my mana development and am a turn off comboing when he Marit Lages me. I ended up having an LED on board and were it a Sai, I definitely would've had a greater opportunity to win the game, since I'd have flying chump blockers. Certainly something to think about.I'd probably do my usual anti-fair deck sideboard and cut to one LED and keep in the Sais.

    Nonetheless, the more unstable mana, lack of "natural" drawn Ballistas and legendary payoff card all culminated in a loss to a matchup I usually felt otherwise favoured in. Alas.

    Roundn 4: 4c Loam

    Game 1: I have a turn two kill with t1 Mage into LED into t2 Salvagers with Baubles in the bin. Unfortunately my opponent heads up plays Chalice on zero and I'm a sad puppy. I draw second Trinket Mage and find an EE, but cannot find a colourless land for the life of me. I do so just before a Lili ults me and am then able to combo out.

    -4 Chalice of the Void
    -3 Lion's Eye Diamond
    -1 Walking Ballista
    +2 Sorcerous Splyglass
    +2 Seal of Cleansing
    +2 Swords to Plowshares
    +1 Surge Node
    +1 Engineered Explosives

    Game 2: He turn zero Leylines me, turn one Chalice on zeros me and then Loam locks me. Wasn't much I could do here.

    Game 3: Busted. Turn 1 Mentor into turn two Karn into making a lot of Monks and constructs and Surge Node-ing a Chalice on zero (satisfying) triggering my Mentor. Thalia and Knight got completely overwhelmed by Monks and Constructs.

    Also, I'm a big fan of how many tokens I end up having to use. Monks, Constructs, Thopters and Eldrazi Scions have all found their way on to the battlefield.

    Anyway, I think the adjustments required moving forward are more concerning the mana base. As sexy as the Karakas is, I might move it to the sideboard over the Surge Node (as cool as it is, I'm not sure how much better it is than EE... Then again, I wanted to EE on three a lot throughout the day and found that hard. Anyway...) and play a forth fetchable land so I don't encounter the stupid feel bads against Maverick as I did. I think even going to 4 Seat, 4 Den is possible, but I'm still one of the biggest proponents of basic Plains in the deck to have a fighting chance against Dragon Stompy. Sai is good, but again we are taking this deck to a more token swarm deck at that stage. Trinket Mage is great due to his ability to create a lot of sideboard equity - cutting down to one LED I don't care so much about anymore because I have three tutors in the deck to find it anyway.

    In terms of sideboarding, I have a general philosophy:
    - In fair matchups, where people will board in hate for you combo side, I board out LED a lot. In all the versions I play, it is only critically a combo piece and otherwise generates mana and makes you discard your hand. I think the Humans builds have it a bit different (with the tutors, it actually functions as a good accelerant) so take what I say with a grain of salt. But it is usually the first cut in fair matchups.
    - Most non-Blue fair decks I will cut Chalice. Especially decks like D&T/Maverick and any Stompy variant. D&T and Maverick get through it very, very easily and they will have many draws where it can just ignore it and move on with life and continue to develop their board. The plan I feel against these decks is to either combo fast, or speedily create a token army with just enough removal to push through the board (be that in the form of Plow, Wail, Ballista). I even cut Chalice vs. 4c Control (mainly on the draw) because their mana costs also vary significantly and Decay and Kommand make it look like a do-nothing, especially when drawn late in the game.
    - Against combo, cut Ballista, Karn, add disruption pieces. Sometimes Ballista is good against a certain variety of combo decks (eg. Infect) and hence there I would try to slow ourselves down and out-fair them. But otherwise vs. Storm, S&S etc. I would aim to be a disruptive Mentor beatdown deck that can occasionally win out of the blue. It is this reason why cutting Ballista (which is normally what you need to "kill on the spot") I am fine with - your plan is to just lock up the board with disruption and then kill as an afterthought - pseudo-comboing is usually fine. I do wish I had a Lodestone Bauble in the deck for these kind of situations to not have dead cards in the deck and kill on the spot though.

    In general, I think it's more about what "gear" you want to switch the deck to - a token beatdown/grind deck with a slight chance of kill switching the opponent or a faster pseudo-combo deck.

  18. #298
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    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Quote Originally Posted by ChemicalBurns View Post
    [*]His ability to create Metalcraft effectively (particularly for Mox Opal) is really appreciated, and makes me happy not to run artifact lands overall. Unlike mono-White builds though, Mox Opals are never a reliable "early" mana source, but on turn two + they will usually be turned on. As an a bit of an aside, I think Mono-White's greatest strength is the ability for Mox Opal to be both an early acceleration piece (Den + Opal + trinket leads to t1 Chalice, for example), while in non-artifact land builds (ie. any splash build) Mox Opal will always be a mana source reliable more so on turn two or three onwards and unlikely as an early acceleration piece. This makes mono-White still a very valid choice, even with Sai now in the picture.
    I would love to know why you don't think playing a single splash color (not a 3-5c human build) can be accomplished with more artifact lands, thereby actually making it easier to get Opal online. I am running 4 Den and 3 Synod in my U/W build and have found the manabase to be relatively smooth, especially with Trinket Mage being able to grab a land in a serious pinch. It also makes Karn's constructs better.

  19. #299
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    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Played the mono white build to a 3-1 finish tonight in a win a dual. Was pretty impressed with the decks fair game and ability to grind. Unfortunately, I made my first major misplay since building Bomberman and it potentially cost me the dual. I sacrificed my Lion's Eye Diamonds to pay for Inventor's Fair and lost metalcraft. I was quite tilted, but after I stepped away after the match and gathered myself I could at least reflect on the great run I have been on and still be proud (this was a misplay in g2 to find a lethal Ballista and win the match, opponent went on to win g3).
    Once you go Legacy...

  20. #300

    Re: Chalice Bomberman/Bomberman Stompy

    Cleaned up UW:

    Creatures: (15)
    4 Auriok Salvagers
    4 Monastery Mentor
    3 Sai, Master Thopterist
    2 Trinket Mage
    2 Walking Ballista

    Non-Creature Spells: (26)
    4 Chalice of the Void
    4 Urza's Bauble
    4 Mishra's Bauble
    4 Lion's Eye Diamond
    2 Karn, Scion of Urza
    1 Engineered Explosives
    4 Lotus Petal
    3 Mox Opal

    Lands: (19)
    4 Ancient Tomb
    2 City of Traitors
    4 Cavern of Souls
    4 Seat of the Synod
    4 Ancient Den
    1 Inventors' Fair

    Sideboard: (15)
    2 Containment Priest
    2 Sanctum Prelate
    2 Seal of Cleansing
    2 Swords to Plowshares
    2 Sorcerous Spyglass
    2 Warping Wail
    1 Engineered Explosives
    1 Tormod's Crypt
    1 Karakas

    Feels very smooth with the Opals and stuff, so this is probably the best direction to take it. Lack of basic Plains again means Dragon Stompy is unwinnable, but this really feels like a version that very easily beats Pile and Delver - so if you're gunning for those, this is a great pick. Losing percentages against Thalia.dec is a bit of an issue butI don't think it's as bad as initial experience has made it.

    Also alerted to me was the strength of Celestial Purge. Plow is good against D&T and co., ofc, but Purge over Plow still gives us an answer to Marit Lage, Leovold that gets around Chalice. Probably more interesting is that it's multipurpose removal that also covers the Dragon Stompy MU. I think it deserves consideration, definitely.

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