I never drew my Nihil Spellbombs, but Shamans, counters, discard and them not hitting much with dredgers (because that's what the deck often does) was enough. Wouldn't push my luck too much though and going to keep some grave hate in the SB for the time being.
Stalker? You have Jace and Liliana. Just play 4 JTMS and 1 Sac effect (mine is Innocent Blood, was Liliana before. Blood is much better when you want to deal with TNN in a pinch). The sacrifice effect or spell must be used in conjunction with Deed or another removal, but I'm stating the obvious, y'all know this.
BUG decks play, like, 2 or 3 Stalkers You have counters, Jaces, Liliana Damnation seems overkill to me.
Also, thanks for introducing me to Deathrite builds there is no comparison with traditional non creature lists, feels like playing a different deck!
Regarding Dredge, I found that we beat them even G1 quite often. Forcing or Pierceing their 1st enabler forces them to go DDD, and this gives us time to develop board, deeds, Deathrites etc.
Are you into Jazz? Have a look at the Lp's I have for sale on Discogs!
It seems overkill until you actually play the matchup. The deck hits very hard and you need specific combination of answers, mana to cast them, and them no to be countered and you usually have just a couple of turns to have them. I'm not saying I can't beat Tombstalker, I certainly can and have, I just can't beat deviant.
Yea, Shaman is so good. Can't imagine playing the deck without them.
A friend just linked me this and I think it's an interesting concept. Maybe a bit away from UBGx Landstill but I don't know where to discuss this type of deck.
Needs to be tinkered a bit since I see too little blue to properly support Fow (though he decided to run 3 because of that). I also think that 4 Liliana is overkill and 1-2 of them should be trimmed for more business (probably additional card quality/filtering tools.)
Nonetheless an interesting approach to UBGx control. Worth considering.
Furthermore, I'd like to hear your opinion on cards like Lat-Nam's Legacy and See Beyond. They seem janky at first, but actually they provide some decent recycling effect if you have useless stuff stuck in your hand, like Disfigures vs combo decks or Spell Pierces versus Goblins.
See Beyond is not a bad top deck late game in case you are left with no cards in hand-even if on a second thought, sorcery speed really sucks- but I think Lat-Nam's Legacy is actually good. I played it as a singleton for a while and I appreciated it every time I drew it.
Are you into Jazz? Have a look at the Lp's I have for sale on Discogs!
Thanks.
The bluecount is kinda low I agree but after boarding its quite good actually versus combo (I play a way different sideboard but did not have the cards I needed).
Anyway I changed the list quite a bit since the Mox did suck and thus I could went back to play deed instead of EE and went up to 3 Loam.
Intuition got cut aswell in this process.
Oh and I play 4 tops again since as you said there was to few card filtering tools in this list. But I did not cut any Lilianas for it and I wont since shes great with 3 Fires & 3 Loams.
To your suggested cards.. I'd rather play Nights Whisper.
Whoa that was fast! Thanks a lot for your insight! The Source, your sure for connecting blue based decks players all over the world :)
Any chance you could consider Deathrite Shaman in place of Moxes?
All the other changes make sense, Top is undeniably good. Intuition provides some good manipulation though, we all know how good is it in a deck packing 3 LftL.
I get your point of view on Liliana. I understood it was good in a deck like that but in general I dislike her in blue based control decks, probably is just a wrong pre concept of mine; due to the fact that I never really played a deck were she has the possibility to shine (like yours). Care to share your newer list?
Also regarding Lat-Nam's Legacy : I know this card's utility seem rather suspicious but let's just compare it to Night Wisper. No life loss, Instant speed, pitches to Fow. Of course is not gonna be the next staple for BUGlandstill but still an interesting find. Just some food for thought.
Are you into Jazz? Have a look at the Lp's I have for sale on Discogs!
:)
I really don't need the Intuition anymore because I play 3 Loams I can draw into it naturally. One might consider playing a lower amount of Loams in favor of Intuition but thats really to slow (+ Intuition gets countered.. but rarely anyone counters Loam even if its more often correct than one might think).
And No I never considered DRS because
a) Innocent Blood.
b) G1 it dies instantly since its the only target for removal.
c) It's not good enough for the sideboard.
d) The ramp isn't really needed (don't get me wrong, it nice but not essential)
e) Innocent Blood. Yep twice on the list. Should be 4 since I do play 4 :p.
Btw. I just counted; my bluecount g1 is abysmal with 16 cards (the 3 FoW included). G2 versus combo I go up to 25 (with 4 FoW) which should be fine.
Yeah I see your point. I barely run one copy of Innocent Blood in my Bug landstill so I included Deathrite and never looked back (ty Nastaboi). I know blanking all opponents removal spells is nice but the utility it provides is amazing. Not so amazing with 4 Blood main deck though.
Regarding LftL being countered, back when I was playing Threshold I won games on the back of countering Loam 2-3 times in a Row. People just don't realize that Dredge doesn't mean ''can't be countered by spell or abilities''.
16 Blue count for Fow means that most of the times Fow will be just clogging your hand, until you net massive amount of CA through Jacestorm+Loam (=late game). I really think you either move to 18 or move Fow to the board and play Thoughtseize. But BUG control is not the type of deck that can afford to eschew Fow.
Are you into Jazz? Have a look at the Lp's I have for sale on Discogs!
Yep, just like I said. People should counter Loam way more often but thankfully they don't :).
I could see moving force to the sideboard in theory but so far in praxis I don't have the slots to do that at least not with the sideboard I'm playing at the moment.
I'd like to step my bluecount up for Force but again..slots :p (I'm allready playing the Kötter 61^^).
So for the moment till I can change something I'll have to live with the problem.. so far most of the times I have a Jace/Brainstorm to pitch (I can hear the cringe about the Brainstorm one).
Are you into Jazz? Have a look at the Lp's I have for sale on Discogs!
Played in a LGS legacy event with BUG last night. I take back everything bad I said about Standstill. The card was pretty amazing and I even played in the pseudo mirror match (he was playing UW Landstill). Over all I was very happy with the deck after adding the standstills. If anyone is interested in the rest of the matches or the deck list let me know.
I'm interested in an analysis since I still dislike standstill in a control shell in this meta (and I'm convinced mishras fabrik is garbage). But I'd be glad to be wrong..standstill is such a sweet card.
Holly I really like the direction your list is taking. Please do keep us updated on any further development...so I can netdeck your list and beat people up with it.
Elves Discord Channel: https://discord.gg/2EVsdw2
Holly, could you post your list with your most recent changes. I recently won an 80 person tournament with this deck and am happy with my list, but I'm always looking to spice it up. It would be tough for me to cut abrupt decay basically in favor of punishing fire, but they each have their plus and minus'.
Thanks!!
Allright guys, when I get home from work I'm gonna post my lists. Do you want just them or should I do some kind of write-up as I did here
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post763873
to see where I'm coming from / going towards too?
Holly, a write up would be very much appreciated. You don't have to be as thorough as your Voice of Germany primer because that is legitimately a lot of work. But reading your thoughts behind each card is both interesting, entertaining, and educational! I look forward to reading it whenever you post it.
Elves Discord Channel: https://discord.gg/2EVsdw2
Yeah, someone post a list. I'm interested in seeing it as well. I've got my own list, but I'd like to see what other people are having success with as well.
-Matt
I've been testing Jaco's list from the pimp thread, -2 cliques +2lands, and it's playing incredibly sweet in a TNN world. But I'm not sure if it's a better control deck than Miracles overall.
Legacy: Rituals
Vintage: Drains
Okay here it is guys: 3h 40: of non stop working.
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...371#post782371
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