[OLD] UGr Threshold

[aTn]

This morning I thought it would be a good idea to make a list of 'recent' UG(R)-Threshold lists that performed well at major events this year (Gencon, GP Columbus, TML0). It is intended as a reference for our discussions (and I was tired, like many of you I guess, of going to different websites to look at these lists).

If you there's a hole in this list, you can PM a decklist with the tournament where it had a good perfomance and I'll add it. In particular, I'm missing one of the Hatfield's list for Gencon's Legacy trials event.

Sorry I didn't put the names of all the player, I guess the tournament and the decklist make it easy to know who played what.

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1. UGR-Threshold
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Top8 TMLOpen, March 2007 (?).

4 Predict
4 Brainstorm
3 Portent
3 Serum Visions
2 Sensei's Divining Top

4 Force of Will
3 Counterspell
3 Daze

4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Werebear
2 Fledgling Dragon

4 Lightning Bolt
3 Pithing Needle

4 Volcanic Island
3 Tropical Island
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
2 Island
1 Forest

Sideboard:
4 Pyroclasm
3 Counterbalance
3 Control Magic
2 Naturalize
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Sensei's Divining Top

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2. UGR-Threshold
---------------------
Top6 GP Columbus, end of May 2007.

4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Werebear
4 Quirion Dryad

4 Brainstorm
4 Mental Note
4 Serum Visions

4 Force of Will
4 Stifle
3 Daze

4 Lightning Bolt
3 Fire/Ice
1 Pithing Needle

4 Wooded Foothills
3 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
3 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
1 Island
1 Forest

Sideboard:
3 Spell Snare
2 Krosan Grip
2 Tormod’s Crypt
1 Pithing Needle
4 Pyroclasm
2 Red Elemental Blast
1 Pyroblast

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3. UGR-Threshold
---------------------
Top8 (2 Players), Gencon Legacy Prelims, end of August 2007.

4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Fledgling Dragon

4 Brainstorm
4 Portent
4 Predict
2 Serum Visions
2 Sensei's Divining Top

4 Force of Will
4 Daze
2 Counterspell

4 Lightning Bolt
3 Pithing Needle

4 Volcanic Island
4 Tropical Island
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
1 Island
1 Forest

Sideboard:
4 Pyroclasm
4 Counterbalance
2 Krosan Grip
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Control Magic
1 Sensei's Divining Top

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4. UGR-Threshold
----------------------
Top8, Gencon Legacy Prelims, end of August 2007.

4 Tarmogoyf
4 Nimble Mongoose

4 Brainstorm
4 Mental Note
2 Opt

4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Stifle
4 Spell Snare

4 Lightning Bolt
4 Fire // Ice

3 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand
4 Tropical Island
4 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland

Sideboard:
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Pyroblast
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Engineered Explosives
3 Pyroclasm
2 Krosan Grip

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5. UG-Threshold
--------------------
Winner Gencon 2007, end of August 2007.

4 Predict
4 Portent
4 Brainstorm

4 Tarmogoyf
4 Werebear
4 Nimble Mongoose

4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Stifle
4 Spell Snare

1 Rushing River
1 Snapback

2 Island
1 Breeding Pool
2 Wooded Foothills
3 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
4 Tropical Island
4 Wasteland

Sideboard
4 Counterbalance
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Krosan Grip
2 Hail Storm

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6. UGR-Threshold
---------------------
8th Gencon 2007, end of August 2007.

4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Quirion Dryad
4 Tarmogoyf

4 Force of Will
4 Daze
3 Counterspell

4 Serum Visions
4 Opt
4 Brainstorm

4 Fire // Ice
4 Lightning Bolt

4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
4 Tropical Island
4 Volcanic Island
1 Island

Sideboard:
3 Spell Snare
2 Vedalken Shackles
4 Pyroclasm
3 Krosan Grip
1 Counterspell
2 Engineered Explosives

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7. UGR-Threshold
--------------------
4th Gencon 2007, end of August 2007.

4 Tarmogoyf
4 Nimble Mongoose

4 Opt
4 Brainstorm
2 Mental Note

4 Stifle
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Spell Snare

4 Fire // Ice
4 Lightning Bolt

3 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
4 Tropical Island
4 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland

Sideboard:
3 Tormod's Crypt
3 Engineered Explosives
3 Pyroclasm
2 Krosan Grip
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Pyroblast

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8. UGR-Threshold
--------------------
Top 5 German Legacy Open 2007 (175 players)

3 Burning-Tree Shaman
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Tarmogoyf

4 Brainstorm
4 Predict
4 Serum Visions

4 Force of Will
4 Daze

4 Fire / Ice
4 Lightning Bolt

2 Repeal
2 Vedalken Shackles

4 Flooded Strand
2 Island
3 Polluted Delta
4 Tropical Island
4 Volcanic Island

Sideboard:
1 Deepcavern Imp
4 Blue Elemental Blast
3 Pyroclasm
3 Magma Jet
3 Pithing Needle
1 Flowstone Embrace

[Lukas Preuss]

Deepcavern Imp and Flowstone Embrace. That's awesome sideboard tech right there.

Otherwise, Freddy's build is pretty solid, one of the traditional German builds of NQGr. He is also an amazing player, which might have contributed to his success, eventhough he didn't make full use of his sideboard.

[aTn]

When the results for the German Legacy Open were posted, I really didn't get DeepCarvern Imp and Flowstone Embrace and I still don't. To me, they're a bit of a waste of SB slots. The Imp has evasion but can be easily removed; sure, not paying the Echo or paying the Echo may bring another creature type to boost Goyf (or get Threshold), but I'd rather do that with cantrips (e.g. Predict). Maybe he was scared of facing Ichorid (Bridge from Below). Flowstone Embrace seems bad, both as a creature booster and as removal (burn plays that role pretty well, both accelerating the kill and removing creatures, especially those with 2-Toughness). Maybe he was scared of Meddling Mage (which is played in Germany in the popular BaseRuption if I'm not mistaken ?). If I played a build like his, I'd probably put Counterbalance Top in the SB and side-out the BTS and other cards to board in Counterbalance-Top in the appropriate match-ups. In either case, props to Freddy for his performance.

[Nihil Credo]

When the results were posted, I really didn't get DeepCarvern Imp and Flowstone Embrace and I still don't.

Imp and Embrace were picked from a freshly-opened booster when the player was unable to use two of the SB cards he had planned, and had to handle his list.

Although it would be awesome to use Embrace to kill a Spectral Lynx ;)

[aTn]

I'm dissapointed Imp wasn't for Bridge From Below and Flowstone Embrace as a surprise for Meddling Mage (BaseRuption)

Thanks for the explanation... it... eh... explains a lot.

EDIT: Didn't think about Spectral Lynx, good one.

EDIT: Oh yeah, I didn't check the manabase to see that he DIDN'T splash black (for Imp) (-Taking head out of ass-).

[chokin]

This is my first post, I'm new to the forums. Hi all.

I don't know if you're all joking, but the reason behind the Imp and Embrace is because he couldn't find 2 other cards from his board and he had those left over from a draft.

They weren't serious.

[MattH]

@MattH: If he kills your drake with a Bolt, your can kill his goyf with goyf block+bolt so u still have the advantage.
Mfg jan

The point is to run a threat that doesn't die to a single Bolt, because if it dies to a Bolt, it's not going to reliably break a Goyf standoff (and Drake in particular is awful bad to get shot down, setting you back two land drops).

Random brainstorm: has anyone tried Vexing Sphinx as a flier? How was it?

[Adan]

I'm dissapointed Imp wasn't for Bridge From Below and Flowstone Embrace as a surprise for Meddling Mage (BaseRuption)

Thanks for the explanation... it... eh... explains a lot.

EDIT: Didn't think about Spectral Lynx, good one.

EDIT: Oh yeah, I didn't check the manabase to see that he DIDN'T splash black (for Imp) (-Taking head out of ass-).

Yeah, as Nihil said, they were picked from a fresh openes booster because the guys were in a traffic jam and had to hurry. He also had to borrow tons of cards and quickly stuffed Flowstone Embrace and the Imp into the Sideboard.

But Flowstone Embrace was really boardet against Spectral lynx and Baseruption's Meddling Mages. That was funny to watch.

[godryk]

I may be sounding noob, but, has anybody consider, at lest, to test Tarfire? It can replace Fire/Ice now that goblins is not very played, it's not as useful and can't tap an opponen't 'Goyf, but most of time Fire/Ice is used like an overcosted shock. I don't mean we need it, I just say it deservers some testing.

[kabal]

I may be sounding noob, but, has anybody consider, at lest, to test Tarfire? It can replace Fire/Ice now that goblins is not very played, it's not as useful and can't tap an opponen't 'Goyf, but most of time Fire/Ice is used like an overcosted shock. I don't mean we need it, I just say it deservers some testing.

I don't think so. When you say, "Goblins isn't being played", that isn't true for every meta. besides that Fire/Ice pitches to FoW, allows you to tap opposing Gofy to sneak by ftw, removes 1+ pesky X/1 creatures like Dark Confidant, Nantuko Shade, Spectral Lynx, Mother of Runes, etc and/or go 1pt to the dome. To a lesser degree, remove 2 EtW tokens.

[Kronicler]

I actually have been testing 2x Tarfire in the main, and frankly, I like it a lot. Now before you flame the hella out of me keep in mind that I play a build with 4 Dryads. Originally I thought that the cantriping of Ice would outshine the +1 to Goyf, but against a lot of decks being able to just keep a ton of preasure coming is more valuable than squeezing damage through. Wow.... I didn't really explain that well. I'll write up another, more in depth, post when I'm awake.

Kronicler

[aTn]

Random brainstorm: has anyone tried Vexing Sphinx as a flier?

I haven't tried it but I imagine the cumulative upkeep might become hard to pay and not super hot in terms of card advantage.

If I'm not mistaken, if you pay the upkeep for N-1 turns and decide to sac the Sphinx on turn N (with N counters on it), then you'll have discarded N(N-1)/2 cards to pay the given Sphinx's cum-upkeep cost in the previous turns. The only way to make sure you draw (from the Sphinx's triggered ability) at least the same amount of cards that you lost (from paying his cum-upkeep cost) is to 'sac' the Sphinx when there's 1, 2 or 3 time counters on him. All that gives you at most 2 Sphinx attacks before you start 'losing' cards to him.


Why do you want to add a creature which has evasion ? I think the standard 8-12 creatures are enough. If I absolutely wanted evasion (for the mirror-match in particular), I'd probably go with F. Dragon or I'd splash white for M. Enforcer.

[chokin]

The only reason I'd ever want a Vexing Sphinx in play is if I have extra lands in my hand and I want better cards in it. If Thresh is using cantrips to get better cards more reliably(threats and answers), what is the Sphinx doing besides throwing away cantrips or threats/answers? And when you do draw, I suppose it's similar to cantripping, but then why spend 3 mana and 3 turns to do it? Sure a 4/4 beater is nice, but I think I'd rather use the Efreet or Drake.

[Nihil Credo]

I'd have to say that Vexing Sphinx looks pretty good, particularly for a Red version:

1UU - Sorcery
Choose one - Discard a card, draw two cards, then next turn this deals 4 damage to target player; or discard three cards, draw three cards, then in two turns this deals 8 damage to target player.

If you're looking for an evasive beater, then 4-8 damage is probably all you'd need to close the game, when paired with Bolts (and F/I for who runs them).

The huge problem, however, is StP and its ability to get you 1-for-2'ed, or, Satan forbid, 1-for-4'ed.

[aTn]

Stupid Idea #1:

If the ground is stalled (which tends to happen in the mirror) and you can manage to sack a Goyf (or even just a Goose), your sacked creature can be replaced by a Flying creature with the same Power/Toughness (and Firebreathing or whatever it's called) for just UR. Ladies and gentlemen, I give you...

Dracoplasm

UR (2), Creature - Shapeshifter X/X
Flying.
As Dracoplasm comes into play, sacrifice any number of creatures.
Dracoplasm's power is equal to the total power of the sacrificed creatures and its toughness is equal to the total toughness of those creatures.
{R}: Dracoplasm gets +1/+0 until end of turn.

[from Cairo]

Dracoplasm

UR (2), Creature - Shapeshifter X/X
Flying.
As Dracoplasm comes into play, sacrifice any number of creatures.
Dracoplasm's power is equal to the total power of the sacrificed creatures and its toughness is equal to the total toughness of those creatures.
{R}: Dracoplasm gets +1/+0 until end of turn.

This guy has 2+ for 1 written all over him... if you sack a Goyf and they Swords the Plasm, you're out one ground pounder and the flying win condition... pretty sure I would rather have Serendib Efreet (sp?), or any of other flyiers and not have to sac anything.

[aTn]

I agree, I'd rather play something like Soar to enchant my creature before playing Dracoplasm (and I'd never play Soar, unless someone offered me something good in exchange). It was more of a joke than anything else ('stupid idea').

I think Serendib is one of the only good flyers we have access to (from my tastes anyhow)... and if we don't count Fledgling D..

Sea Drake, as was mentioned before, is nice Bolt meat and the fact that you need to return two lands just seems like counter tempo-ish; sure you can Stifle it's trigger, but that won't happen often and as mentioned, 2 for 1 isn't attractive.

[Citrus-God]

I was never dissapointed in Fledgling Dragon. Being able to win two turns after it is played is just awesome.

[donkyranger]

What is better, and why? Shackles or Threads... I own 50 Shackles... but Threads seems so good to... I've had expeiance where Shackles stalled a game out against Salvager for quite a while, but I dont know so help? Plz

Also Ive been trying to find a really good list with dryad and dragon in it and I was wondering if someone could hook me up with what they think is the best list.

Tanks a lot

[Citrus-God]

One can be Needles, and the other one pitches to FoW. One can grab a Mystic Enforcer, the other sits there and whines that it's not Control Magic.