[Deck] Armageddon Stax

[Nihil Credo]

I'll share: I'm testing a Kor Haven in this deck. In theory it should work well - it has a nice synergy with taxing effects, but most importantly with those turns where you have a partial lock in place and just don't draw anything relevant to spend your mana on.

[Jaynel]

That doesn't seem bad. It's like a Maze of Ith that adds mana in the early game.

[Bane of the Living]

ok, lots of responding to do:

ARSENAL:



here's where you are off. I didn't say play only blue or only white. The idea would be to run some of each. and we're splashing. Not switching to blue. I'm just showing options. Hense the comparation of Rule of Law and Laboratory and Prison and Propaganda. I'm not saying anything other than "hey look, redundancy." Btw, I've always wondered why Lab/Law is only a SB card. It halts the use of digging into a Force with a Brainstorm. I like that. Also, a turn-1 drop of this would make goyf come down a lot slower.

With Parallax Tide, the idea is to make them overextend with lands (someone mentioned overextending with creatures). Remove theirs, they can't play around 3sphere so they drop more. Or, they can't pay for Prison/Propaganda/Tabernacle effects, so they drop more. Once they overextend, then you Geddon. It also gives you more time to draw into stuff. Not to mention you can sac it off to Stax the turn it's gonna go away.

as to blue killspells and white killspells, they should be the same. Factories. If you want, I suppose Faerie Conclave, but I don't like it as it requires blue. Don't worry about your killspell being a creature. That isn't a very good idea with Goyfs running around. Vindicate is one of the most popular cards right now anyway. May as well run a small recurrable killspell as opposed to a big one that stays gone...

And of course tutoring is necessary. If you run 3 Intuition, and 3 of each business spell along with Ruins, you basically run 6 of each. More redundancy = more consistancy. Cutting business spells for tutors is fine.

Wasteland will always be a problem. Here's an idea, needle it.

FILIPINHO:
Totem is bad. Idyllic Tutor only searches for enchantments, which is lousy considering your lock consists of artifacts. Why wouldn't you just run Intuition. And I'm laughing my pants off hearing people talk about Enlightened Tutor. Here's why. 1cc. Then, it puts the card on top of your library. So, if it's not countered, it puts a card you need on top of your library...remind you of a certain land? cough*ruins*coughcough.

I have never seen so many people against recurrable recursion.

THE WES:

Vindicate is old news, not to mention W/x stax got a better card. Oblivion Ring. Still a sorcery-speed 3cc, only 1 color, and its able to come down a turn faster thanx to the double colorless in the casting cost. Better yet, it's a permanent, so if you remove a critter or land, just toss it to Smokestack the upkeep before you blast their lands. Keep using fetches, as they are also waste-proof. They shuffle your deck, and go off when you need them to, as opposed to waiting for a second one, wasting it yourself, or them wasting it. When you hit a land-pocket, you can reshuffle for better topdecks. And you still run S. Fields? What do they help with? Thresh, an already positive matchup (besides the counterspells)? Wastelands that you yourself use?

FLIP:
Leyline is NOT a sb card. Maindeck it. It's the most powerful card you can get in your opening hand. Hinders some builds of Storm, Thresh rolls over to it (if you can play around it without putting to much variety in your g/y), Ichorid becomes nothingness to you (just mull until you hit one). Loam builds die, which means Loam builds of 43 lands becomes so much easier.



You do have a decent matchup, but if they have any experience at all against stax, they know what's important to counter. Magii and Smokestack. Ensnaring Bridge against Sun Tower. Chalice at 1/2. To a lesser extent, 3sphere (can play around it as long as they don't let an Armageddon Resolve, which they can't let happen anyways as they run very few actual mana-producing lands). I'm saying that we need to make their counterspells less effective. A lot less effective. Its what is keeping them in the upper tier of the metagame.


/end responses.
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Redundancy is what drives this deck. I'm saying, let's get redundant. 6 non-land Tabernacle effects, 2 Tabernacles. 8 'Geddon effects (I play 5 geddons and 3 Tides in a test-build I'm running; may up to 6/2 ratio), and then top it off with tutors. I was playing this deck against a combo deck the other day. They EtW'ed for 18 turn 1. I dropped a Tabernacle (land). Player Lost is what my PC screen said; same thing has happened when someone else EtW'ed for 16 goblins, only to be met by a Diamond and City into a Ghostly Prison. Tendrils is harder to beat, but you COULD run Stifles in the SB. Or Orim's Chant. They get storm up to so high, you Chant. Or, they Burning Wish/Infernal Tutor and you Chant. You only need them turn 1, so it doesn't matter after that; With E. Tutor it does. After that, you've dropped a lock piece, either 3sphere or Chalice. Once the chalice is dropped, it's no big deal that they are unplayable, because you just won.

Also, a card often considered a silver bullet would be eligible for the deck. Meddling Mage. 2cc makes it iffy against Goyf players, but in the SB, naming Tendrils would be good (I know they run wipe aways, but still, buys you time to get down 3sphere/Chalice).

It's a serious consideration, and I'm working on a list. It may take another week or 2 before I'm ready to reveal it, but it's coming along.

--DC

So you've been here on the source for a whopping month now and you've decided our tried and true stax configurations are obsolete? Where do you play legacy? There arent too many actual legacy metagames for you to get your playtesting. In the US theres basically MA, VA, and NY to go to good Legacy tournaments. Where do you play??

I ask people like Breath Weapon this (who still has not answered me) because it gives what your saying a certain amount of credit. Id be more prone to buy your blue splash innovations if you had some tournaments under your belt or actually, if I hadnt tried it myself. But I have, look up Tide Stax. I started the thread.

You say alot that says to me, "I havent played this deck as much as I claim." For example, Lab/Law is only a sb card because its only good against Storm Combo. Your saying its so good because your opponent cant Brainstorm into Force but you could just drop 3sphere... If you have a beef with Counterspells you should be playing Defense Grid anyways. Lab/Law does nothing about goyf. I dont get what your saying.

Parallax Tide is bad. Its an enchantment that can be nuked to get lands back unlike Geddon. It costs which the deck has no intention to produce for a card worse than one it already plays. It can be Pithing Needled, geddon cant. Your opponent can also just wait for the sucktastic mechanic of fading to make your Tide just a worse Tangle Wire. Tide is only ever good if you have Stifle for it.

Idylic Tutor is terrible. Its far too slow whether or not it doesnt cost one mana to avoid Chalice. Its narrow, it only gets enchantments. What are you gonna get thats worth 2 turns waiting for? Pendril Mists isnt that good and Ghostly Prison is a stall tactic you were suppose to play it early. Removing business spells for slow ass tutors is actually not ok sorry.

Intuition is also bad because it puts cards in your yard for goyfs, doesnt actually get you the card you want unless you throw 2 other copies in the shitter, and its not a perm, a golden rule for this deck. Oh yea its also blue.

Fetch Lands are bad in the deck. You cant Needle Heaths/Strands if you play them, they can be Stifled, and the life loss can really add up with Tombs. If you want to avoid Waste play the deck better, drop basic plains then follow with the powerfull colorless lands the turn you want to play a bomb so you can at least get a use out of them.

"When you hit a land-pocket, you can reshuffle for better topdecks."

This doesnt even make sense. How do you know when your in a land pocket? After you've drawn 2-3 in a row? How are you sure there's another land after that and not finally a spell? You'd rather possibly shuffle into more lands?

Suppression Field is far from obsolete in this deck if thats what your trying to say. Cephalid Breakfast cant combo with it in play. More decks than Thresh use Fetchlands, this is Legacy! Goblins has Fanatic, 7-8 fetchs, AETHER VIAL, and Seige Gang for it to crunch. It keeps Deed from going off sometimes since more of your opponents need to play it and pass the turn anyways. Having to pay 2 more to blow up your 3 drops is pricey and sometimes not possible if your Suppression Fields are also stopping their Fetch Lands. That can give you alot of time to O-Ring the Deed.

Suppression Field is also great against Wasteland which is good against you. You honestly dont need to care that Wasting a land would cost you two mana since you play Geddon and your Wastes are reserved for problematic lands such as Mishras Factories.

Leyline is NOT a sb card. Maindeck it. It's the most powerful card you can get in your opening hand. Hinders some builds of Storm, Thresh rolls over to it (if you can play around it without putting to much variety in your g/y), Ichorid becomes nothingness to you (just mull until you hit one). Loam builds die, which means Loam builds of 43 lands becomes so much easier.

This is another I know jack about the format statement.

Leyline is really only worth running against Ichorid and Breakfast in the first place. Your having a great Thresh match already and oh yea, your not even playing black. Does that mean you only intend on casting this card from your opener? Thats all this deck needs, more dead top decks.. Mox Diamond is the most powerfull card you can get in your opener, not a narrow off color enchantment.

[kabal]

In the US theres basically MA, VA, and NY to go to good Legacy tournaments.

Not that the comments were directed at me but ... wow, you are so wrong. Speaking purely for GA, we have WEEKLY Legacy events that ALWAYS have 20+ people. Granted, you did say "good" and # of people does not necessarily equate to good, but I can ensure you that the decks and people piloting them are just as good as your town.

[Bane of the Living]

Not that the comments were directed at me but ... wow, you are so wrong. Speaking purely for GA, we have WEEKLY Legacy events that ALWAYS have 20+ people. Granted, you did say "good" and # of people does not necessarily equate to good, but I can ensure you that the decks and people piloting them are just as good as your town.

Im not trying to knock anyones metagames those are just the regions that have the 40+ tournaments for the most parts. Id love to see some large scale events from GA shaping the metagame forums.

[Joon]

I'd like to hear your opinion on my list.

Lands:

4 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tombs
3 Flagstones of Trokair
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Wasteland
1 Horizon Canopy
6 Plains

Critter

4 Windborn Muse
3 Magus of the Tabernacle

Lock/Disruptionpieces

4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere
4 Ghostly Prison
4 Smokestack
4 Armageddon

Manasafety & Acceleration

4 Crucible of Worlds
4 Mox Diamond

Sideboard

4 Pithing Needle
4 Oblivion Ring
4 Exalted Angel
3 Jotun Grunt

At the moment I'm testing if Canopy is better than Flagstone # 4, as nearly always when I draw it gets discarded into Mox. But in the later game it's a far better Topdeck than Flagstones and the synergy between Crucible and Canopy is clear I guess.
Muse is used as Ghostly Prison # 5-8, and due the fact I'm running more creatures now I cut the Magi down to 3 as one is always enough because I'm often not able to pay the Upkeepcost of two Magi. On the other hand, two Muse don't cost anything.
The Sideboard is a bit unusual I guess. Needles are clear, targets as well. Ring is in the SB as I don't want to cut something from the maindeck for it. Exalted Angel is boarded against Aggro/Burn decks und together with Grunt they are a nice mini "man-plan" which can hit the Controlplayer hard after they boardet out nearly all creaturehate after G1.

[Nihil Credo]

I've never liked Windborn Muse in testing. It's as fragile as Exalted Angel, which is a bigger investment but one that wins you the game instead of sometimes stopping you from losing. Even against beatdown, what would you rather have - your opponent unable to attack due to infinite Propaganda effects while you swing for two, or him attacking with one creature per turn while you swing back for 4 + 4 life? If you resolve an Armageddon, even without a Crucible for fast recovery on your side, it's even better.

The one substantial advantage of Muse is that it removes your need for double-white mana, so you need 1-2 less white sources in the deck. But with the threat of Angel added in, I've fared nicely with 3 Factories and 2 Wasteland (actually, I activate the Factories so rarely I'm thinking of going down to two).


Oh, and I forgot to post about the idea I mentioned a few weeks ago: Kor Haven is working like a charm. It's conditional and Legendary so I'm not bumping it to two copies, but the singleton one has won me a fair amount of games and the colourlessness hasn't hurt me yet. I'm now recommending it for testing to everyone.

[Joon]

I've never liked Windborn Muse in testing. It's as fragile as Exalted Angel, which is a bigger investment but one that wins you the game instead of sometimes stopping you from losing. Even against beatdown, what would you rather have - your opponent unable to attack due to infinite Propaganda effects while you swing for two, or him attacking with one creature per turn while you swing back for 4 + 4 life? If you resolve an Armageddon, even without a Crucible for fast recovery on your side, it's even better.

So all in all you'd advise me to play 4 Angel in Muse's place? In the next few weeks I don't have to do anything cause it's vacation time so I'll test it. Rings main would also be nice due their flexibility.

The one substantial advantage of Muse is that it removes your need for double-white mana, so you need 1-2 less white sources in the deck.

But as I play Angel in the side I need the mana sources again.

But with the threat of Angel added in, I've fared nicely with 3 Factories and 2 Wasteland (actually, I activate the Factories so rarely I'm thinking of going down to two).

But you have not always an (active) Angel and Mishra's can chumpblock with Crucible all the time.

Oh, and I forgot to post about the idea I mentioned a few weeks ago: Kor Haven is working like a charm. It's conditional and Legendary so I'm not bumping it to two copies, but the singleton one has won me a fair amount of games and the colourlessness hasn't hurt me yet. I'm now recommending it for testing to everyone.

In which place do you test it? Could you post your actual list, please (or at least its manabase)? Thanks.

[Nihil Credo]

// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
4 [EX] City of Traitors
3 [4E] Mishra's Factory
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [TSP] Flagstones of Trokair
7 [UNH] Plains
2 [TE] Wasteland
1 [NE] Kor Haven

// Creatures
3 [PLC] Magus of the Tabernacle
4 [JGC] Exalted Angel

// Spells
4 [SH] Mox Diamond
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
4 [CHK] Ghostly Prison
4 [DS] Trinisphere
4 [FD] Crucible of Worlds
3 [P3] Ravages of War
2 [P2] Armageddon
3 [US] Smokestack

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [9E] Defense Grid
SB: 1 [LG] The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
SB: 4 [LRW] Oblivion Ring
Six non-finalized slots. Common choices are: Powder Keg (EtW or Bridge tokens, mostly), Jotun Grunt or Tormod's Crypt for graveyard decks, Pithing Needle, Suppression Field, Disenchant.

[deadlock]

Good looking list, but i have one question regarding Muse:
As i see it Muse would be more a Ghostly Prison than an Angel replacement.
Maybe cut the 4th Angel and Prison for 2 Muse or something like that.

Now i am not really expierenced with this archtype, i played Wu Angel Stax back, so i dont know how important it is that Prison -costs one less than Muse and that Muse is a creature and therefore easier to remove?

[Arsenal]

Good looking list, but i have one question regarding Muse:
As i see it Muse would be more a Ghostly Prison than an Angel replacement.
Maybe cut the 4th Angel and Prison for 2 Muse or something like that.

Now i am not really expierenced with this archtype, i played Wu Angel Stax back, so i dont know how important it is that Prison -costs one less than Muse and that Muse is a creature and therefore easier to remove?

Ghostly Prison (2W) is able to be played on turn 1 reliably. As an enchantment, it is much harder to remove than a creature in the current metaGoyf. Ghostly Prison is a crucial lock piece in Stax, and I wouldn't remove it for anything currently in print (although, against some matchups [combo], these are the first things to come out).

[Bane of the Living]

// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
4 [EX] City of Traitors
3 [4E] Mishra's Factory
4 [TE] Ancient Tomb
4 [TSP] Flagstones of Trokair
7 [UNH] Plains
2 [TE] Wasteland
1 [NE] Kor Haven

// Creatures
3 [PLC] Magus of the Tabernacle
4 [JGC] Exalted Angel

// Spells
4 [SH] Mox Diamond
4 [MR] Chalice of the Void
4 [CHK] Ghostly Prison
4 [DS] Trinisphere
4 [FD] Crucible of Worlds
3 [P3] Ravages of War
2 [P2] Armageddon
3 [US] Smokestack

// Sideboard
SB: 4 [9E] Defense Grid
SB: 1 [LG] The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
SB: 4 [LRW] Oblivion Ring
Six non-finalized slots. Common choices are: Powder Keg (EtW or Bridge tokens, mostly), Jotun Grunt or Tormod's Crypt for graveyard decks, Pithing Needle, Suppression Field, Disenchant.

Im surprised you only sb Oblivion Ring I think its the best card to come out for stax in a long time. Especially considering the change to decks that can simply pay and attack you for 5-12. Im slowing removing Ghostly Prisons for them since Empty the Warrens has cooled down. I especially like that its a hard to counterbalance answer to Dreadnought/goyf. With Nought they usually cant re-stifle it even if you lose the Ring.

[Maarten]

I have decided to make a Legacy deck, after a little research the Stax deck seems te be fun.
But I have a few questions about this deck, I hope you can help me answer them.

1. Isn't Smokestack very dangerous to play? It seems to me you destroy your own lock with it, or must you wait putting it into play until you've a Crucible of Worlds in play?

2. How many counters are (usually) necessary to put on the Smokestack? only 1 so you can sacrife a land and then return it with Crucible of Worlds or is it adviced to put more counters on it?

3. Why so few decks run Tangle Wire? isn't it good?

4. Many decks run Magus of the Tabernacle over Wrath of God, but isn't Wrath of God better?

5. How does this deck win? just with some little beatings from Mishra's Factory and Magus of the Tabernacle?

6. Why play Engineerd Explosives if the deck has only 1 color mana ?

7. I can't find many deck lists with Tabernacle at Pendrel Vale, isn't this card better then the Magus ?

8. Is the build of the topic starter (see bellow) a good build?

4x Armageddon
4x Magus of the Tabernacle
4x Smokestack
4x Ghostly Prison
4x Trinisphere
4x Crucible of Worlds
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Engineered Explosives
4x Mox Diamond
4x Ancient Tomb
3x City of Traitors
3x Crystal Vein
4x Mishra’s Factory
4x Flagstones of Trokair
6x Plains

Thanks in advance

[Sanguine Voyeur]

3. Why so few decks run Tangle Wire? isn't it good?

Tangle Wire is only good against decks that the deck is all ready good against. It also consumes useful, limited space.

4. Many decks run Magus of the Tabernacle over Wrath of God, but isn't Wrath of God better?

Although Wrath is a better immediately, Magus supports the mana denial, blocks with a huge hide, and can win the game.

5. How does this deck win? just with some little beatings from Mishra's Factory and Magus of the Tabernacle?

Yes, unless Exalted Angel is run.

7. I can't find many deck lists with Tabernacle at Pendrel Vale, isn't this card better then the Magus?

Yes, but not many people own real Tabernacles. They're a rare commodity.

3x Crystal Vein

Crystal Vein typically isn't run. It destabilizes the mana base and isn't as useful as it seems. You sacrifice mana to hinder everyone's mana. It's bad into Chalice, Trinisphere, and Smokestack, the three most important things to power out, sans Prison.


EDIT:Emidln has a lot to say in regards to Tangle Wire.

Tangle Wire

I cut this card, not because it is counter-productive, but because it is bad. It is bad because it's either win more or lose more. It's win more in your good matchups (like Threshold) and lose more in your bad matchups (like Goblins). When I was looking at what Sun Tower is trying to do, it is generating card advantage. This is done through permanents that X for 1 my opponent. These are cards like Ensnaring Bridge, Chalice of the Void, and Smokestack. Tangle Wire doesn't actually provide card advantage in this way.

The reason Tangle Wire is played in Type 1 Stax is Mana Drain. Workshop Aggro uses it as a tempo card, but Vintage Stax is primarily interested in not letting Drain decks go busted on turn 2-3 off a free 3-4 mana. Advatange is accomplished by playing some cheap/free artifacts, then shop -> Tangle Wire. Our format does not have Mana Drain and we play very few free/cheap artifacts.

While some people will tell you this card is good against Aggro, they are wrong, at least partly. Aggro falls into two categories: fat aggro and swarming aggro. Fat aggro is aggro that uses a few fat creatures (or, alternately, a few small creatures with Equipment or other Aura-type things). Swarming aggro is aggro that uses many cheap creatures that are usually undercosted in an effort to overwealm the defenses.

UbaStax is naturally good against fat aggro. We have Ensnaring Bridge, which is a card fat aggro never wants to see. It must be dealt with for them to win. However, UbaStax is very weak against swarming aggro. We are forced to play non-permanent cards like Rolling Earthquake, Pyroclasm, and Burning Wish in an attempt to deal with fast, swarming aggro since we lack a reliable way to get and use Barbarian Ring early, as in Vintage. Also, since our ways of emptying our hand are less refined than Vintage (Bazaar and Null Brooch), we typically have more trouble getting Ensnaring Bridge online vs swarming aggro than we do fat aggro.

Tangle Wire's problem is that it is only good against fat aggro. Fat Aggro, like Threshold, only plays a few permanents a time, and is significantly set back by Tangle Wire. However, swarm aggro decks like Goblins, Affinity, and Life.dec (which usually goes Aggro vs UbaStax), rely on their small creatures to get in past the defenses of Ensnaring Bridge, and their own card advantage engines to survive Pyroclasms and Rolling Earthquake. Whereas Threshold invests a lot of resources (typically, 3-7 cards per creature), Goblins invests 1 card for 1 creature. Added to the fact that Goblins can produce more of themselves to generate card advantage, and suddenly they have more permanents than we do. Tangle Wire ends up Time Walking 3 times, but it's not like the Classic Trinisphere, Juggernaut, Tangle Wire "Time Walks" of old. These are Time Walk targetting me, Time Walk commendeered by you, Time Walk commendeered by you. This is because Goblins will have more permanents, and thus recover faster from Tangle Wire than you.

I cut Tangle Wire for cards that are actually useful in problem matchups. These cards include Pithing Needle, which is absolutely busted against Goblins, as it stops their win condition post Uba-Bridge lock.

[Silverdragon]

1. This deck is build around Smokestack hence the name "Stax". Aside from 4-5 Armageddon effects every single card in the deck is a permanent. Also no card has a cc higher than 4 (assuming you play Angel morphed) so if you can afford your 4 mana for Stack you are also very likely to be able to play every single card you draw off the top. So even if you don't have a Crucible yet you can keep your Smokestack at 1 counter almost infinitely. Flagstones also help keep more permanents in play until you find Crucible and they are a reason why drawing some Armageddons in the meantime isn't that bad.
Speaking of Armageddons, if you have Smokestack and Trinisphere in addition to your 4 lands it is sometimes correct to just play your Armageddon and sacrifice the Smokestack to itself. Then both you and your opponent will be screwed under Trinisphere but you play 24-26 lands which is more than most other Legacydecks do so you should be back into the game faster.

2. If you already have a Crucible, 2 counters are often the correct choice because you can sac the land you return with Crucible and the card you've drawn if it was not a land. Also if you have Flagstones ramping up to 2 counters is sometimes right too. Often however it depends on the situation (i.e. does your opponent have something you need to get rid of, how many permanents do each of you have total?). As I already said putting a counter on it and just keeping it there is possible but you also have the option of going up to way more counters. Mostly this is in situations where your opponent has an advantage on the board and you just want to clear the board to start fresh (remember you are very likely to draw more lands to get back into the game). You have to pay attention how many permanents both of you have, how many cards your opponent has left in his hand and how many lands were already played on both sides. You also need to anticipate when your opponent might throw more permanents (lands) on the board and when he's sandbagging them.
In summary: Read your opponent, gain experience and if you are not sure 1 counter is often the right choice.

3. Tangle Wire has some issues. It only affects the board temporarily and it often affects you as much as your opponent. It also does nothing but buy you some time and even if it does that without additional lockpieces you didn't advance your gameplan at all. Its many flaws are hard to pin down and explain. Maybe you should test it to get a feeling for how strong (or weak) it is yourself.
In summary I'd say it is just not strong enough to warrant a spot over the other stronger cards the deck already plays. Maybe if the minimum decksize was 70 or something it could be included.

4. Wrath of God cannot be sacrificed for Smokestack, it cannot attack and block and it costs double white. I think this sums it up. Oh and also Wrath is a one-time effect while Magus/Tabernacle stays until your opponent handles it.

5. These little beatings can add up fast. Consider that with a Magus and a Factory it only takes 5 turns to finish your opponent. In the past there have been controldecks slower than this. Also if you have established a hard lock your opponent should not need too much time with his turns so even if you only have a Factory to beat down these 10 turns should not take more than 5 minutes. (All the opponent has to do is sac, draw, play land or if he didn't play a land discard; all you have to do is sac, draw, replay land, attack)
Btw if you are really concerned about finishing your opponent in time (maybe because you are too inexperienced with the deck or the format as a whole) play some Exalted Angels too (btw a really good choice anyway).

6. You have Mox Diamonds so technically you can produce all 5 colors. Of course you'll only be able to set it to 0, 1 or 2 reliably but these are the cc that are most important for the deck. 0 destroys any tokens, morphs and some opposing acceleration like Chrome Mox (however remember it kills your Mox Diamonds and Chalices too). 1 destroys annoying critters like Nimble Mongoose, Kird Ape or Goblin Lackey and speaking of Goblins it also destroys the always annoying Aether Vial. At 2 there's Tarmogoyf, Dark Confidant, Arcbound Ravager etc.
If I remember correctly it was first included to have additional ways to deal with Empty the Warrens and as a solution to Aether Vial.
Right now it might be better to play Oblivion Ring instead.

7. As I already said above Magus can attack and block which is really nice if your opponent has say a 3/3 Mongoose or a 5/6 Tarmogoyf or if you need to finish your opponent quickly. Not being a land also means that he stays around after Armageddon for at least one round if you don't play a land after the Geddon (you can also often support him with Mox Diamond or a Plains fetched by Flagstones). You might be able to play The Tabernacle after an Armageddon sometimes but having your Magus just sit there on defense until you topdeck the Geddon is very valuable against many decks.
edit: Sanguine Voyeur is right Tabernacle is very expensive so not everybody has access to them.

8. Imho it is a bit outdated however the core of the deck is very big so up to now most or even all modifications made to the deck were only minor. This exact version might even be better than most current builds in certain metagames.
The latest version of the original designer Christopher Coppola can be found here.
What's new?
Exalted Angels as anti-aggro tool and quick finisher against difficult matchups.
5 Armageddon effects to get a better ratio of drawing them.
Wastelands added for extra disruption a the potent "Waste-lock" with Crucible.

[Nihil Credo]

Im surprised you only sb Oblivion Ring I think its the best card to come out for stax in a long time. Especially considering the change to decks that can simply pay and attack you for 5-12. Im slowing removing Ghostly Prisons for them since Empty the Warrens has cooled down. I especially like that its a hard to counterbalance answer to Dreadnought/goyf. With Nought they usually cant re-stifle it even if you lose the Ring.

I don't like maindeck Oblivion Ring for the same reason I never liked maindeck sweepers: it is a simple stalling card, one that doesn't make your opponent's pressure any lighter. You kill a creature, they drop a new one, back to square one. Blech. This deck doesn't run card draw, so it hates those sort of trades.

Sometimes it's simply necessary: EtW at its peak required something more reliable than Prisons and Magi. You mentioned Dreadnought, which can only be answered with a pre-emptive Chalice@1 or Oblivion Ring; anything else is too slow. But really, Dreadnought is the only threat I can think of that demands these measures. Not only does Tarmogoyf (or Tombstalker, or Gathan Raiders, or Jotun Grunt...) leave you 4-5 turns to lock the attack step, but unlike Dreadnought or EtW it doesn't require any investment from your opponent, so killing it runs into the problem described above: what do I do about the next one?

I have decided to make a Legacy deck, after a little research the Stax deck seems te be fun.

Stax a fun deck? Now I've really heard everything...

1. Isn't Smokestack very dangerous to play? It seems to me you destroy your own lock with it, or must you wait putting it into play until you've a Crucible of Worlds in play?

Obviously Smokestack + Crucible is the tits, but the reason Smokestack works is that you usually run 52 permanents (I'm not counting Mox Diamond), four of which are Flagstones of Trokair and four more (Cities of Traitors) which are going away sooner or later anyway. The vast majority of decks in the format play significantly less, meaning that if you're not on a fast clock it's going to single-handedly lock them out of the game... eventually (much emphasis on 'eventually').

2. How many counters are (usually) necessary to put on the Smokestack? only 1 so you can sacrife a land and then return it with Crucible of Worlds or is it adviced to put more counters on it?

Generally, stay at one - at that setting you can maintain it indefinitely by simply playing out your hand. Going to two is something that only happens if you are on a clock and really need to reset your opponent out fast, since one of the following must be true:
- You have Crucible + Flagstones active (or Crucible + Gods' Eye, but I think Gods' Eye shouldn't be run since it's only good here and being colourless is highly relevant)
- You have Crucible active, 4+ mana to play your drawn cards, and a threat
- You will get rid of Smokestack within a couple of turns. Since you're a prison deck, this is a bad idea unless you either have a replacemente in hand or are confident to win before they can recover (usually with an Angel).

3. Why so few decks run Tangle Wire? isn't it good?

Tangle Wire has the main advantage of versatility: against beatdown, it's a multiple Fog, and against control, it's a Defense Grid. The problem I have with the card is that it's a bad Fog and a really terrible Defense Grid.

4. Many decks run Magus of the Tabernacle over Wrath of God, but isn't Wrath of God better?

No. With Wrath of God, they can just play more creatures and you're back where you started. With Magus of the Tabernacle, the same isn't true.

The big drawback of Magus over Wrath is that it can be removed - one of the many reasons I play Angel alongside Magus (many decks are removal-light). But even if that were too big of a problem, the second choice for mass creature control would be Moat or Humility, not Wrath.

5. How does this deck win? just with some little beatings from Mishra's Factory and Magus of the Tabernacle?

I play Angels, never less than three of them. It's perfectly possible to win with just 6-8 win conditions, but in my experience can lead to a lot of drawn Game 3s.

6. Why play Engineerd Explosives if the deck has only 1 color mana ?

Empty the Warrens, mostly; with Mox Diamond, Tarmogoyf and other stuff can also be handled (Powder Keg is another option, being more reliable but slower).

However, this is less of a concern these days; in fact, EtW has gotten so much hate that I see combo players now use it as a last resort when they really can't win with Tendrils of Agony.

7. I can't find many deck lists with Tabernacle at Pendrel Vale, isn't this card better then the Magus?

No, Magus is by far the better card. Tabernacle is only any use when your opponent is attacking with multiple creatures. If he only has one, it's a bad Wasteland that doesn't even make mana. If he has none or uses manlands, all you can do is pitch it to Mox Diamond.

Magus, by contrast, provides a huge-ass blocker alongside with the Pendrell effect; this is splendid synergy since it forces your opponent to play a second creature - and cost himself another mana each turn - in order to deal you any damage at all. Moreover, Magus is a win condition. And finally, Magus isn't Legendary, so you can safely run 3-4.

If you happen to have 1-2 real Tabernacles lying around, stick them in the SB where they're pretty good.

8. Is the build of the topic starter (see bellow) a good build?

EE is quite likely worse than Oblivion Ring these days (and I, personally, don't maindeck that one either), and Crystal Vein has given me nothing but disappointment every time I've tried it out. So no, I think it's no longer a good build if it ever was.

Obviously, I will suggest you try out my build. Assuming you don't have Ravages of War, play 4 Armageddons and either the fourth Magus, Smokestack, or an extra land (I'll likely be piloting Angel Stax in ten days, so I'll have to come up with a definitive choice by then).

You can also look around on DeckCheck.net and take a look at the latest winning lists.

[Maarten]

Thanks for all the great feedback! It really helped me to understand the deck a little better :).

[Bane of the Living]

I have decided to make a Legacy deck, after a little research the Stax deck seems te be fun.
But I have a few questions about this deck, I hope you can help me answer them.

1. Isn't Smokestack very dangerous to play? It seems to me you destroy your own lock with it, or must you wait putting it into play until you've a Crucible of Worlds in play?

2. How many counters are (usually) necessary to put on the Smokestack? only 1 so you can sacrife a land and then return it with Crucible of Worlds or is it adviced to put more counters on it?

3. Why so few decks run Tangle Wire? isn't it good?

4. Many decks run Magus of the Tabernacle over Wrath of God, but isn't Wrath of God better?

5. How does this deck win? just with some little beatings from Mishra's Factory and Magus of the Tabernacle?

6. Why play Engineerd Explosives if the deck has only 1 color mana ?

7. I can't find many deck lists with Tabernacle at Pendrel Vale, isn't this card better then the Magus ?

8. Is the build of the topic starter (see bellow) a good build?

4x Armageddon
4x Magus of the Tabernacle
4x Smokestack
4x Ghostly Prison
4x Trinisphere
4x Crucible of Worlds
4x Chalice of the Void
4x Engineered Explosives
4x Mox Diamond
4x Ancient Tomb
3x City of Traitors
3x Crystal Vein
4x Mishra’s Factory
4x Flagstones of Trokair
6x Plains

Thanks in advance

1. Smokestack only becomes dangerous if your opponent can also keep up with it. Good examples of this are enemy Crucibles, Life from the Loam, and Survival decks (all perms/witness/squee). Consider siding it out against those matchups. They're your bad matchups btw.. Landstill, Loam, Survival.

2. Usually its only necessary to have one counter on the smokestack unless its all you have to rely on. If you have a Flagstones in play, one in hand, ect its usually ok to bump it to two and wipe two perms. You can sacrifice the stones and the Stack itself and not have any net lose while your opponent suffered 2 cards. You can always sac your stack after bumping it and drop another a great tactic if you run four. If Crucible is out you can almost always bump to two counters since nearly everything in your deck is a perm or permx2 Flagstones.

3. Tanglewire isnt that great compared to oh.. Armageddon. The deck needs to focus on 4 of's for consistancy. There's just no room. Besides it doesnt do anything if you have Magus out and he's a five star card IMO.

4. No Wrath is and Magus is and believe it or not thats a huge difference when your playing against Rishadin Ports and firing multiple Armageddons. Your opponent can recover from Wrath with one Ringleader or just play out one Goyf at a time. Wrath isnt very effective for that. Magus cleans the opponents board when you play a Geddon and can usually block the shit out of goyfs. He kicks Doran in the nuts and he stifle's Emtpy the Warrens. He's better than Exalted Angel. He straight up replaced her.

5. Yes and concession. This is a Prison Control deck. It wins late game. Though things like turn one Trinisphere or Chalice for 1 + 2 can just win the game also.

6. Yes at one you blow up Nimble Mongoose and Vial and Dreadnought and you can play it through your own Chalice for 1 if you pump colorless mana into it. Amazing.

7. Yes but no one can afford them.

8. Ill look later Im out of time.

[Machinus]

I have tabernacles and I don't play them. They would be in my design if they were good enough.

You guys realize I put Ravages in all my lists right? I don't care about price. Tabernacle doesn't make mana and so it's not good enough.

[Bane of the Living]

I have tabernacles and I don't play them. They would be in my design if they were good enough.

You guys realize I put Ravages in all my lists right? I don't care about price. Tabernacle doesn't make mana and so it's not good enough.

I disagree, I think tabernacle is great. Its faster than magus when it matters like against EtW. No offense Chris but do you still play the deck much?