[OLD] UGw Threshold

[thefreakaccident]

Enlightened tutor isn't for this deck... however:

@ Raharu- it can serve as virtual card advantage as you could search for a card that can net you advantage (top/ee/needle/CB)... not to mention, it can tutor for a wincon if you have none.

Not saying it is good here, just saying it isn't card disadvantage.

[Adan]

I've replaced one for a Threads to diversify my removal and - please don't laugh - to have a cmc 3 slot for CB main and have one more when Grips are boarded.

The idea isn't bad, Baseruption did the same (3 StoP, 1 Ghastly Demise, 2 Shackles, Threads (SB) and Vindicate (SB)) to avoid being hit too bad by Meddling Mage set on removal. That was also the strength of HanniFish in the past: Meddling Mage onto StoP and then Jotun Grunt afterwards were always GG against UGW Thresh.

It works perfectly for me but I'm occasionally cutting something (Predict or Needle) to play the 4th Swords.

Currently I'm thinking about:
-1 Counterbalance
-1 Needle
+1 Swords
+1 Enlightened Tutor (for Threads, Top, CB, Hoofprints, Needle, putting something on top for CB and stuff in the board. Most likely Shackles and maybe a Crypt)

Yes, I consider Swords to Plowshares to be a 4of-autoinclude since they are the most efficient removal available in the format. But don't play Enlightened Tutor, you don't want to play a card that generates Carddisadvantage in Threshold.

I also tested Oblivion Ring in the Needle slot as additional removal after I saw it in your list but its too sluggish for me (see reasons above), although I really love its flexibility. Have you considered playing Vedalken Shackles in the Ring slots in your Big Thresh list?

Oblivion Ring is indeed a versatile card, handling things like Counterbalance, Humility, Moat, Solitary Confinement, Crucible of Worlds, Vedalken Shackles and whatsoever.

I have tested Shackles myself in my/Clemens' build and dismissed it into the Sideboard afterwards since it's manaintensive. It's a very good card, but in average, you won't be able to use the SDT-CBalance-Engine for 1 Turn which might be crucial in some situations. And Shackles are rather a anti-aggro cardchoice only, but not as versatile as Needle or Oblivion Ring.

[Valdez]

Iserlohn and Dülmen which are both still pretty random though they have established Legacy since 2 years now. And Dülmen is always publishing only the Top3 lists because they still have the stupid logic of that "Bronze-Silver-Gold"-circle.

In the last 3 years, almost every Tourney in BeNeLux & Germany with more than 50 participants had a "random" meta.

Iserlohn has allways been "UXx Aggro-Control-Country", the meta ist quite stable at the moment,
theres allways some Grow [10-20%] + the "Hype-deck of the month"[15-25%], these Hypes were Nought, Loam, BXx Disruption, Enchantress & Landstill in the last few Month...

Then why should we copy your list if it sucks in the earlygame because it's not able to apply pressure?

Cuz he doesn't intent to aply some early pressure.
Mungos are the waekest card of the deck in all mus except for MUC and non Chalice, non Loam Aggo, if you are playing with Balace.
So cutting Mungos is the next logical step, if theres no MUC/VG/RG Beats in your meta, this results in a TEC/Baseruption like list.
[Yes, i've mentiond Baseruption, this means you can start your ayb fanboy babbling now.]

[Shugyosha]

Regarding Enlightened Tutor: Yes, I know perfectly well that it is carddisadvantage unless you use it in conjunction with CB but there are two reasons:

1. It is only played as a one of replacing Needle. When in danger of losing neither a topdecked Needle nor a topdecked Tutor would help you (well there are exceptions as always like Belcher). If you are not under pressure a Tutor will be better than a Needle most of the time.

2. It can fetch you the missing piece in every match:
Removal: Threads and Shackles when boarded
Control: Balance or Top whatever is missing
Creatures: Hoofprints. Won't get you out of trouble quickly, its a long term plan.
Hate: Needle and boarded Crypt or Dueling Grounds against Goblins

Usually I'm against Tutor myself but the deck is build with so many targets in it that I have to try it.

[undone]

How is Threads of Disloyalt fast enough but Oblivion Ring isn't? Also, replacing Card advantage (Predict) with card disadvantage (Enlightened Tutor) doesn't sound like it's going to help with your lategame.

When Threads gets resolved the board significantly shifts. For example if a goose is on the table and a goyf is there, you steal goyf. you now removed thier goyf and casted your own for 1UU or Remove target tarmogoyf, goose hits you for 3.

Threads is a 3 mana 2 for 1. It removes a creature and casts one. Ring is a 3 mana 1 for 1.

[linux-ll-]

Right but Oblivion Ring handles nearly everything.
In my opinion it´s almost impossible to win against Humility or Counterbalance+Sensei and thats the fact why I prefer to play Oblivion Ring.

[Omega]

So we have Threads of disloyalty and Oblivion ring.
-Both cards cost 3 mana, but threads cost 2 blue, which shouldnt be a problem normally
-Oblivion can hit any non land permanent. Threads can only hit CC 2 or less creature.
-Threads gives you "cards advantage". Oblivion is just a removal. Threads does give card advantage bercause
a) you remove a creature an opponent controls
b) you gain a creature.


I am not sure which one is better though. I prefer Oblivion's versatility. But threads is not to be underestimated

Robert

[undone]

The biggest problem I have with Obv ring is that deed REMOVES your removal. If you need to remove a spesific card or some such splash for vendicate (almost strictly better) Its also a non perminant.

Basicaly its a bad vendicate, and vendicate isnt ran in UGWB thresh. Threads is ran mostly as a mirror hoser.

Also in all honesty There really should be some CA other then just predict/CB, personaly I LOVE to repeal my top in responce to a draw, you draw 2 cards (costs 3 mana but its still utility) And its a way to get rid of trouble cards like humility for a turn (or if you can counter it)

[linux-ll-]

I think you can´t say which card is better because it´s a meta question.
Will there be a lot of Landstill, Loam, Staxx play Oblivion Ring. Otherwise Threads !

[Shugyosha]

Also in all honesty There really should be some CA other then just predict/CB, personaly I LOVE to repeal my top in responce to a draw, you draw 2 cards (costs 3 mana but its still utility) And its a way to get rid of trouble cards like humility for a turn (or if you can counter it)

Yes Repeal is also my answer to things like Humility but I would never use it to bounce my top unless I absolutely need an additional card or loose. Although I Grip my Top in response to the switch trigger occasionally to pump Goyf (but only to win 1 turn earlier).
Repeal should always be played with great care and consideration and not wasted just to cantrip unless it is really necessary.

[Joon]

Yesterday I had a weird idea after I saw a NQGw StifleWaste List.
What if we could make a NQGw pseudo-tempo NQG feat. StifleWaste?

A rough draft

4 Tropical Island
4 Tundra
4 Wasteland
3 Polluted Delta
3 Flooded Strand

4 Tarmogoyf
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Meddling Mage

4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Stifle
4 Spell Snare

4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Rushing River

4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder

SB:

A Mix of Blue Elemental Blast, Wheel of Sun and Moon, Armageddon, Gaddock Teeg and Grip/EE.

I know that Swords don't seem to fit into this perfectly, but it removes EVERYTHING. And stops Recursion in form of Genesis, Stronghold...
Meddling Mage main is an interesting option imo. As we don't play Smother/Balance/Dreadnaught we can set Mage on that. In other Matchups like Aggro Loam or Landstill you will nearly always find a target (Loam/Wish/Vore/Crusher/Dreams or Wrath/Humility/Moat/EE/Crucible/Decree/...). I like him a lot. Maybe he could get cut from the mainboard for something like 2 Werebears and 2 Armageddons so that you can drop one to two Critters, force Armageddon through and win, especially good against Control. Or something like that.
What do you think? Are black and red just superior to the Whitesplash in non-Balanced NQG?

[Adan]

Are black and red just superior to the Whitesplash in non-Balanced NQG?

Yes, since the White Splash doesn't support the tempo-ish concept. Black has got Confidant and Extirpate (maybe Thoughtseize) and Red has got Burn for reach (not to mention that Fire//Ice can be insanely good if you play it well).

[spiderfreak]

Hi im new to playing whtie threshold. Im playing this, plz let me know what you think.

4 Windswept Heath
4 Flooded Strand
3 Tropical Island
3 Tundra
1 Savannah
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Forest

4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Mystic Enforcer

4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Oblivion Ring

3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Ponder
4 Brainstorm
4 Predict

4 Counterbalance
3 Daze
2 Counterspell
4 Force of Will

Sideboard:
1 Gaea's Blessing
2 Eternal Witness
2 Gaddock Teeg
3 Stifle
4 Hydroblast
3 Krosan Grip

[undone]

Your a little permanant heavy.

I would drop 1-2 O rings for a ponder and maby a daze. But looks good

Drop witness from the board. Its just... BAD....(in here)

some more EE in the board so you dont punt the combo MU. (despite the mental disposition you always beat combo you really, REALLY dont.... Ichorid, TES, and ironicaly enough breakfast post board are about even or awful for you.) EE, Crypt, and needle are good there.

[Jaiminho]

I feel playing less than 4 Daze and 4 Ponder is just wrong. Also, 19 lands? Why that many?

[MeddlingMage001]

I would suggest cutting the savannah and a predict for a ponder and a daze... 19 lands are too much and ponder is much better in the early game than predict.

[spiderfreak]

oh wow sorry

Windswept Heath = 3 not 4
Flooded Strand = 3 not 4

[Internet Hate Machine]

I've been building on my threshold list for a while now and Im getting ready to head into my first relatively competative tourney scene. What I've come up with is a mainly UGw list with black and red splashes for sideboard options, so this is the list I'm planning on taking with me.

Main:

4x Tarmogoyf
4x Nimble Mongoose
1x Mystic Enforcer
1x Hoofprints of the Stag

4x Force of Will
4x Spell Snare
3x Daze
3x Counterbalance

4x Swords to Plowshares
2x Oblivion Ring

4x Brainstorm
4x Ponder
3x SDT
2x Predict

4x Flooded Strand
4x Polluted Delta
2x Tropical Island
2x Tundra
2x City of Brass
1x Underground Sea
1x Volcanic Island
1x Island

While money is a bit of an issue since I've blown the last money I will have for a while on this list, my main question is with the side board. I'm heading to a mostly unknown meta, but not a large one. I am fairly certain I can expect ichorid and white stax, and neither are an easy MU for the deck. So heres what Im thinking...

4x Pyroclasm
4x Extirpate
4x Serenity
3x Blue Elemental Blast

My main questions are Kgrip or serenity? Serenity is wonderful hate against stax and I know it will be useful, but grip is so much more versatile and would improve the mirror which I am reasonably sure I can expect. Also, is the ichorid MU winnable enough with 4x Extirpate or is the card even worth boarding? Should I just forget Ichorid all together?

Ive considered a build like this:

4x Pyroclasm
4x Extirpate
3x serenity
3x Kgrip
1x cbalance

The fourth counterbalance can help in MUs that revolve around CB top, such as the mirror where it is insanely strong, but ultimately I'm not altogether sure it's worth boarding. Also the loss of BEB can hurt but I'm not really expecting any dragon stompy. Is it too much artichantment hate with the grips and serenitys?

As for the main, I have been considering using vindicate over the oblivion rings, but Im not sure if its viable with only three non-fetch black sources in the deck.

[raharu]

Errr, why not play the 4th Counterbalance in the main? From that list I'm thinking of going -1 Snare for the 4th CB and perhaps find some room for the 3rd Predict, although I can't think of what goes out.

EDIT: As much as I like Vindicates, they're a little bit outside of our budget (I've been watching some for Bunnies, but they're just retarded )

[Internet Hate Machine]

Errr, why not play the 4th Counterbalance in the main? From that list I'm thinking of going -1 Snare for the 4th CB and perhaps find some room for the 3rd Predict, although I can't think of what goes out.

Well, I have really liked it with three. I still generally see more than one CB in the game and I want to have as few dead cards as possible in the borderline MUs. Enchantress will be there too keep in mind and as far as my testing has been counterbalance is "UU: Do nothing" against that deck, and when it actually is hurting him he tends to remove it via O-ring. Snare has been, by contrast, an amazing 4x. It helps keep down the permanent count so I get consistant threshold and acually nabs alot of problem spells in MUs where you dont want to be relying on CB (See enchantress). Predict as a two of has been fine, there are a few matches where I dont like seeing it until the mid game and some where I really dont get to cast it at all.

EDIT: No they aren't, I can afford two on top of everything else we need, I'm on top of the budget issues dont worry there.