[Deck] UW(x) Landstill

[GGoober]

I played in a small 12-man tourney at Asgardgames (Houston, TX) and went 4-0 splitting Top 2 in the Finals.


Tournament 5: 04/05/09
1st/2nd place split: Brian with UBw(g) ANT and Chris Z with UWg Loamstill

Participants:[/u]
Will - UR Painter
Eugene - ?????
Chris - UWg Loamstill
Drew - Imperial Painter
Brian - UBw(g) ANT
Tray - Enchantress
Jeff - UGw Thresh
David - Enchantress
Lil' Chris - White Weenie
Joey - MBC
????? - Kobold Tendrils (Tray, WTH do you call this deck? LOL)
????? Last guy with ???? deck?


DECKLIST: UWg LOAMSTILL
Lands: 23
1 Savannah
3 Tundra
1 Windswepth Heath
4 Flooded Strand
3 Plains
4 Island
1 Academy Ruins
4 Mishra's Factory
2 Wasteland

Draws/"tutors": 13
3 Brainstorm
3 SDT
4 Standstill
1 Intuition
2 Cunning Wish

Board-control: 15
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Humility
2 Wrath of God
2 Elspeth
3 Engineered Explosives
1 Life from the Loam
1 Vedalken Shackles

Counter-magic: 9
2 Spell Snare
3 Counterspell
4 Force of Will

Sideboard: 15
1 Krosan Grip
1 Capsize
1 Return to Dust
1 Pulse of the Fields
1 Fact or Fiction
4 Meddling Mage
3 Hydroblast
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Fact or Fiction


Match 1: Tray with Enchantress
I beat Enchantress: lost game 1 due to Enchantress drawing more cards than any blue mage would, game 2 won the back on 2 Meddling Mage naming Sigil and Replenish (Tray sided out Orings since I was playing Loamstill but go Magus creatures in Loamstill! :D), I won game 3 due to a well timed Wasteland, and countering his draw engine
1-0 (2-1-0)


Match 2: Brian with UBw(g) ANT
Against ANT, I lost game 1, won game 2 off the back of 2 Meddling Mage (Mystical and Tendrils), and won game 3 because Brian ANT himself down to 1.
2-0 (4-2-0)


Match 3: Will with URb Servant
Will's URb Painter was a cakewalk for Loamstill since all I have to do is to ensure that Humility hits play. His EE/CB-top does nothing so he is only left with Force to deal with me. I also have answers with STP, Wrath so he can't really do much while he attempts to counter and protect his combo while I proceed to win with Humilities in both games.
3-0 (6-2-0)

Match 4: Drew with Imperial Servant
Definitely a much harder Painter matchup than Will's (not because Will's deck sucks, it's really good but because I have to deal with Magus of the Moon and Tomb/City plays). The games were summed up by me playing Humilities in all 3 turns. He blasts and protects Painter Servant, while I counter/STP and does what Landstill does. All 3 games, I resolved Humility. I won G1 and G3 and lost in G2 as he kept up the pressure and beat me down with four 1/1s while I draw no creatures/factories. Drew had an answer even with Humility since Magus' ability still gets through Humility, so occasionally my factories were mountains until I drew into EE/STPs.
4-0 (8-3-0)

Match 5: Brian with UBw(g) ANT
We drew since we're all stoned from 2 Tourneys lol. I would not have beaten him. It's just a hard matchup.

Comments:
- Firstly, this deck is based more on WW than UU. The first difference is the high amount of W in the manabase. At least in our meta, Magus kills a lot of things, but getting W and U basics with equal frequency is important against Moon effects if you want to EE at 3. The deck pretty much just plays and tries to stabilize until it hits 5 lands, and hopefully get back into control by blowing the board and sweeping the board before dropping win-conditions. WW is so important in the game since 6 spells that are crucial to the deck's winning strategy costs WW. I lost to Drew one game since he kept me out of my second W with Jaya + Painter. I had Humility + Wrath in hand. Sigh.

- This deck is reminiscent of an ITF/Landstill hybrid, but it's not ITF at all. There's no CB-Top, Goyfs, Deeds, and it plays far more like MWC/MUC/Landstill than ITF. It's not focused on the Loam engine, but if it gets it, it's a huge boost since Ruins recur EE/Shackles, and Loam recurs Factories/Fetches/Wastelands. This deck doesn't really need the Loam Engine, so it's not that GY-dependent on it, but when it does get it, it's much smoother to run.
- Humility is THE SHIT!!! I would want to run 3, but that's dependent on the metagame. If I'm certain I'm facing a green-less aggro metagame, I'd definitely hit it up to 3 since no Grips would screw my day.
- Cunning Wish was less useful although in testing, it's been amazingly flexible. I won G2 against Tray (Enchantress) by Wishing for Return to Dust, getting rid of both Enchantress Presence and Solitary Confinement. Worse comes to worse, you just go Cunning Wish->EOTFOFYL :D (did that twice)
- Wrath of God is subpar, but is needed since your opponent overextends when you play Humility. This is where it shines. I never saw Wrath, and in all my matchups, they were boarded out (except v.s. Painter).
- Life from the Loam stole me one game against Will as I locked him out of mana with Wasteland. Loam + SDT is another great engine if you want to crap the top 3 cards away into the yard.
- Standstill is amazing. Ancestral Recall?
- For those playing Landstill or considering the deck, SDT is broken. I can't believe we're still debating on 2 copies. 3 is the right number. SDT under standstill and SDT with little cards in hand is so crucial.
-Wish targets: Enlightened Tutor was never used but maybe important if I needed Humility/Runed Halo etc. Needs to be tested. Pulse of the Field is retardedly good once you lock out with Humility. Capsize was just plain bad (might be better if I didn't play against so many decks with red blasts :P).
- Meddling Mage is HUGE! I beat Enchantress and G2 ANT with it :P


Possible changes to the deck
I'm thinking of either adding:
- 3 Kitchen Finks/2 Ajani Goldmane in the SB against ANT/Burn. Finks provide a clock together with MMs but Goldmane is strictly better in gaining life in the long run.
- One Volcanic Fallout in the SB: I will consider this in Magus-heavy metagame: Uncounterable, castable.

Here'll be my optimized list, as of tonight's experience:

Lands:
1 Tropical Island
1 Savannah
3 Tundra
2 Windswepth Heath
3 Flooded Strand
3 Plains
3 Island
1 Academy Ruins
3 Mishra's Factory
1 Nantuko Monastery (just a little more heavy-green but keeps deck safe against Extirpates)
2 Wasteland

Draws/"tutors": 13
3 Brainstorm (3 is good number. I like SDT better but Brainstorm is still crucial)
3 SDT
4 Standstill
1 Intuition
2 Cunning Wish

Board-control: 15
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Humility
2 Wrath of God
2 Elspeth
3 Engineered Explosives
1 Life from the Loam
1 Vedalken Shackles

Counter-magic: 9
2 Spell Snare (would love to run 3 but 2 is fine so far)
3 Counterspell
4 Force of Will

Sideboard:
2 Krosan Grip
1 Return to Dust
1 Pulse of the Fields
1 Fact or Fiction
4 Meddling Mage
3 Hydroblast
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Ajani Goldmane (meta-dependent, LS sucks so bad against burn/Goyf-sligh)

[Spur Grappler]

You should rather go for 4 Factories and 1 Wasteland. If your opponent plays some Turn1 Beater you can still easily play a Standstill Turn2 with factory online. Otherwhise it gets very risky sometimes even if its only a fanatic that beats you. But 1 Monastery is cool and should be played when you have the G-splash.
The Wastelock is not really important today as it is mostly good against your positive matchups, so one is really enough. In a long match where you need you will find it.

[rockout]

Wasteland? Only need 1? What? Explain?

Apparently, reading is tech.

[from Cairo]

Wasteland? Only need 1? What? Explain?

Pretty sure he did.

Mishra's is better at dealing with T1 guys (to push an early Standstill), and Waste-lock isn't what it once was, when used its generally in the long game where, with the amount of card drawing, you will likely come across the 1 of. It also has an Intuition that can pull up both pieces of the Waste-lock.

I personally wouldn't feel comfortable with only 1 Wasteland in a build w/o Vindicate and Tolaria West, but the list does have Intuition and Life From the Loam, so it's not that far off from the LS builds that run Tolaria West and Dustbowl.

I feel like Spur Grappler defended/explained his position.

[zulander]

What have you felt is a good way to deal with aggro loam?

[freakish777]

The following is the most recent version of "Landstill" I've been running. Admittedly it's basically Enlightened Tutor Control with two Standstills, but it's done fairly well in testing (it gives up a small percentage against the Aggro-Control match up for a better Combo & Ichorid match up, it's also pretty decent against Goblins):



Lands
1 Plains
1 Scrubland
3 Island
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory
2 Underground Sea
1 Academy Ruins
4 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta

Finding things
4 Enlightened Tutor
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Brainstorm

Win More
2 Standstill
1 Painter's Servant
1 Grindstone

Lose Less
1 Vedalken Shackles
1 Moat
2 Counterspell
2 Crucible of Worlds
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Force of Will
4 Counterbalance

Sideboard
3 Oblivion Ring
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Runed Halo
3 Engineered Plague
2 Seal of Cleansing
1 Rule of Law
2 Pithing Needle



Counterbalance + Top gives you more game against Combo (and ETutor lets you put it together fast enough assuming they don't have the nuts), and is decent against random decks. ETutor gives you a 3rd spell in conjunction with Top and Brainstorm to stack something on top and counter a spell (and there's tutor targets from 1-4cc, and even different things that would make sense instead of just "I want to counter a spell, the only two drop in my deck is Standstill but I don't really want to draw it..."). Oblivion Ring & EE give you 2 outs against Counterbalance in the main (assuming you don't want to just try and resolve 3cc and 4cc cards like Shackles and Moat). Painter combo gives you the ability to put games away faster instead of waiting around for an eternity. 25 lands ensures you don't get screwed. Obviously the other reason to run ETutor is to run bullets in the board. It should be fairly hard to lose to Ichorid post board (EPlague, Runed Halo on Ichorid, Moat, EE, Crypt, and of course a 1cc instant speed spell to Tutor them all up).

One notable issue with this deck, is that it sacrifices power for flexibility. It wants to react to whatever the opponent is playing and nullify their strategy (there's no Exalted Angel, Decree of Justice, Eternal Dragon, Fact or Fiction, Tarmogoyf, etc). Rarely you'll tutor up Painter combo to win early, it's usually just the "I have things locked up, now I'm using Top to find another ETutor to go with Grindstone."

[from Cairo]

What have you felt is a good way to deal with aggro loam?

If they are running Volrath's Stronghold and the Landstill player isn't running Humility, I think they just win G1. 4 Swords can only permanently answer so many threats. If they run Chalice, then one has to wait til Vindicate is online to remove it, before they can even utilize Swords. Counters hopefully show up for Burning Wish and Dev Dreams. Crucible of Worlds can also help against Dev Dreams, but Crucible hurts your own EEs alot too cause you almost always want them set at 3 (an early one at 0 can be bomb sometimes though if they open with Land, Mox, Chal@1; and you EE out their acceleration and disruption).

My G1 strategy against them is to try to play as aggressively as possible, assuming that they are running Stronghold and do have inevitability over me. If they get to the late game/active Loam with mana to do additional plays, their card advantage will beat Landstills'. Spell Snare is huge, since it gets Burning Wish, Dev Dreams and Tarmogoyf which are their three strongest plays pre-Loam shenanigans. If they have Loam and are going off with that, then chaining Standstills can keep things balanced CA wise, as long as one is keeping up with the threats. I generally try to fetch a mix of Duals and Basics unless I'm sitting on FoW, cause a Dev Dreams resolving with the majority of the decks basics out will probably mean they can Waste-lock you out of the game post Dreams.

G2 and 3 its a bit better. Meddling Mage helps considerably; 1) by disabling their engine and 2) by increasing your clock considerably. Pretty much get a Mage on Loam and a Factory going asap, then you can focus all your permission at protecting your guys from Dreams/EE/Assault/etc and your Swords and Vindicates at clearing the way for them. If your running Relic, Extirpate or Crypt or something its obviously gold too. If Extirpate then you can chant something else; if sitting on Spell Snares and Counterspells then chanting Countryside Crusher or Terravore can work, if you have a bunch of creature removal than chanting Dev Dreams or Burning Wish would be better.

[Elf_Ascetic]

I really like an agroboard with Meddling Mage, Tidehollow Sculler and Ajani against Loam. And Relic of course. There are two options with landstill: Out-control them (if you have a slow build) or out-agro them (if your build can be converted). I haven't done much testing, cause loam doesn't see too much play here, but I'll give my thoughts:

In G1, make sure to don't let DD resolve. And if they hit their Worm Harvest, just scoop it up.

Creating cardadvantage is the most important thing, cause they have a LOT of threats. Try to keep EE for Chalice + Moxen, and WoG for as much creatures as you can take. And abuse standstill, obv.

Make sure to fetch basics. If you don't, a well timed Wasteland can ruin your chances for WoG or EE. Yes, you'll lose them to DD, but you'll lose anyway if you don't counter that one.

Almost all SB cards are good versus loam, Hydroblast, Relic, MMage, Sculler, Ajani. I'm still thinking about the cards that landstill can board out.

[NQN]

My plan against Loam is to play Relic Maindeck and board some beaters g2/g3. But usually it´s like Relic,Standstill,Removal, Elspeth->GG. With my recent list the loam Matchup is very positive.

[georgjorge]

That's interesting...I usually side out Dreams when playing Aggro Loam against Landstill, because it depends on Loam recursion, which is something that a) can win on its own b) will probably be stopped by the cards Landstill sides in (Mage, Extirpate/Relic).

[Misplayer]

@freakish777: I like where you're going. I've been less impressed with Standstill lately, probably due to the large number of Dreadstill/Merfolk decks in my meta. For these reasons, I've moved to a build similar to yours that I call "Landwalker" as I have completely cut the 'still part of Landstill. I was hesitant to discuss the list in this thread because it doesn't play Standstill, and is not technically Landstill, but the concepts and feel of the deck are the same. If the mods feel this is too far detached from the Landstill focus of this thread, then feel free to clobber my post. Anyway, here's the list:

4 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
1 Tropical Island
4 Tundra
4 Island
2 Plains
4 Mishra's Factory
3 Wasteland
1 Academy Ruins

2 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
2 Jace Beleren

4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Wrath of God

3 Brainstorm
2 Fact or Fiction

4 Force of Will
3 Counterspell
2 Spell Snare

2 Enlightened Tutor
3 Counterbalance
3 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Humility
2 Engineered Explosives

2 Path to Exile
2 Ajani Goldmane
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Runed Halo
2 Vedalken Shackles
2 Krosan Grip
1 Pithing Needle
1 Humility
1 Propaganda

I went with U/W because I didn't want to weaken my manabase for Vindicate and sideboard cards. Also, because of the need to hit UUWW to be effective, I decided I would rather just play U/W bombs, although losing Vindicate makes dealing with opposing Counterbalances much more difficult. The G splash is for the ability to set EE to 3 and a few Grips out of the board, as I feel that Grip is one of the strongest possible sideboard choices available in all of Legacy. This could be a B splash if you feel that black offers you more help from the board.

Card Choices:
- Jace/FoF - These are what replaced Standstill. I'm not sold on Jace, and could return to 2x Standstill.
- Elspeth - Wins games. 90% of the format has no good answer to her. Insane with Humility. This is not news.
- E Tutor package - The new focus of the deck. I based the list roughly around the list piloted by Gavin Verhey at the GP about which he wrote an SCG article here. This should be 3, but I only had 2 when I put this together. I'd be hesitant to go to 4 because of the increases vulnerability to CB/Top. If you’re suffering under CB/Top an E. Tutor off the top is not going to be the answer to your prayers. This also allows you to run potent 1 and 2-ofs in the SB.
- Humility – While not as powerful as Moat, it interacts better with Factories which are the only win-con outside of Elspeth. This card is a game 1 winner.
- CB/Top – Too good not to play. Top is an auto-include in my mind especially in a deck that’s focused on finding bombs. CB, while not as good as it is in Thresh because of my varied curve, is still so powerful and will almost always result in card advantage.
- Permission Suite – Counterspell flips for 2, so that’s why I went with 3. Spell Snare answers Counterbalance, which is a primary concern in my meta. I’d play a 3rd if I could fit it.

The remaining cards are pretty standard selections in a U/W control deck. The removal package is very heavy with 4 StP, 2 WoG and 3 tutorable answers with EE and Humility. I tried to build with the principle that Gavin discussed where the deck can operate under Standstill just fine, but doesn’t run it in favor of more powerful cards. I’d like a 4th Wasteland, but I don’t want to cut a colored source and Ruins + EE is so good that it warrants a spot.

Sideboard:
- Path to Exile – This card is solid as hell. It comes in against any deck with a man-plan that doesn’t run Counterbalance, and even some that do (i.e. decks without Nimble Mongoose). It also swaps out with swords to answer Dreadnoughts in a more sensible fashion.
- Vedalken Shackles – This card was a tough cut from the main, but I feel like it’s most efficient against swarm-aggro strategies, otherwise I have a hard time bringing it in.
- Propaganda – Hates on Merfolk/Goblins/Ichorid, pitches to Force and is tutorable. This is a pretty flexible spot.

Other thoughts:
Counterbalance still makes life annoying for this deck, as it does ANY landstill deck, and if you don’t agree then you haven’t played against it enough. If you’re sitting on EE, Humility, Elspeth, Wrath, Factory x2 in your hand, then sure, ignore CB, but in many many cases CB + Goyf can end the game when you can’t dig with Brainstorm, you can’t StP and God forbid they can flip for 3. Yes, we have plenty of outs, but this is still a card to be reckoned with.

I almost want more fetches to improve Top’s nuttiness.

I miss Vindicate for the ability to 1) go with the Land Destruction plan and 2) answer Counterbalance/a threat while under Counterbalance. However, slots are tight tight tight and cutting a color made too much sense with the color requirements.

The list looks pretty unfocused with a lot of 2/3-ofs, but try to look at it from the standpoint of what function each card serves in the deck and tally them that way, rather than just summing based on card name. I promise it makes more sense this way.

I’d like to get some feedback/ideas/suggestions on the build. Please try to refrain from just saying things like “cutting Standstill is wrong, GTFO of my thread”. Standstill is one of the most situational cards in the format right now. Your opponent opening with Top warps your whole strategy if you were looking to go T2 Standstill. If they play Wasteland and/or manlands it’s even worse. Now you have to spend cards to obtain a favorable board position to play Standstill and draw back the cards you just used to make it playable. Meanwhile, you’ve spent 3 turns spinning your wheels while your opponent is drawing more threats you’re going to have to answer. Standstill is a proactive card in a reactive deck, so I went with an all-reactive build. Please understand that I know Standstill is in many cases an Ancestral Recall. I’ve won games by chaining them together. I’ve also had it sitting in my hand, dead as can be, even more often. It may just be my meta, but I’m not very keen on Standstill at the moment. That’s all I got, flame away.

[rockout]

“cutting Standstill is wrong, GTFO of my thread.”

I might be one of very few people still playing standstill as a 4-of and even I'm working on dropping the number down for an awesome, super-secret tech. So, I can't argue that point.

You said, "and if you don’t agree then you haven’t played against it enough" in reference to counterbalance. Man, when I see counterbalance I'm like, "FUCK YEAH, I'm about to 2 for 1 this dude."

When your opponent leads with a T1 top why not drop standstill on top of it? I wouldn't second guess myself in that situation. What I'm thinking to myself is: "No T1 Lackey/Vial? T2 Standstill INC!" Yeah they have time to sculpt their hand, but you ancestral recall into better cards. I guess I get a little annoyed when people say, no you shouldn't drop standstill in that situation. It's like, "yes, drop standstill, every chance you get." There are very few situations where you shouldn't drop a standstill. 2/3 Goyf or less? Standstill. Confidant? Standstill (They can't use the effectiveness of confidant under a standstill because their CA just turns into life loss making your life easier.) Vial? Yes, you sure don't. Lackey? If you did, I'd hope someone dick punched you.

[3duece]

I'm with rockout on this one, standstill is still really damn good, especially in this deck. I could see cutting it from a four color list because it seems counterbalance fits that style better and they have less to do under a standstill. But this deck has the most to do under a standstill of any other deck in the environment, including goddamn merfolk.

Mishra's Factory
Wasteland
Tolaria West
Dust Bowl
Crucible of Worlds
Decree of Justice
Elspeth
Top
Build our manabase up!

I would consider cutting the fact/jace slot entirely before I dropped a single standstill, it's just too good. It's a crappy timewalk and a crappy ancestral recall rolled into one awesome draw engine/control mechanism.

[Spur Grappler]

@misplayer:

I can't see how CB should work in you deck. You have 6 cc2 cards and if you play a CB you have just 5 left. That seems pretty bad, as 2 is the most dangerous number for us in most decks. And furthermore you have quite a lot of cc4 spells (7) and many cc0 (24 lands and 2 EE which makes 26). You have enough cc1 of course and a cool amount of cc3 (postboard), but this is not enough for running CB. There are 37 (33+4 FoW that are only useful against other FoW) nearly dead cards for CB. In a Tarmobalance build there are about 17-18 (which are only the lands). See the difference? Landstill is just no deck for CB and if you try to fit CB in you would have to make some notable changes in the mana curve which would weaken the deck's lategame. Of course you can be lucky and counter some spells with it, but you really can't say that it would be even nearly as good as Standstill here. Even if you play in a heavy "Vial" meta, CB would be as "bad" as Standstill then.

And what's the point of playing only 3 Brainstorms in a deck with CB?? You should play 4 anyway in a Landstill, but with CB it's just unbelievable how you can go for 3.

I really don't understand why people can even think about playing just 3 Brainstorms these days. Shall we go through all of it's great possibilitys? I mean, what could we expect more from a card in this deck?

1. no card disadvantage
2. finds lands and counter or anything useful
3. protects cards in our hands from discard
4. is some sort of ancestral recall with a shuffle effect
5. can give you the card you tutored with Enlightened a turn earlier
6. with CB it is just unbelivable
(7. can be pitched for FoW)

And by the way, all of this for 1 mana. I can't find a better card in this deck. It is very useful in ALL matchups. And it just has no DISADVANTAGE. You always want to draw it. It's great in either early, middle or late game. Play 4!

[Misplayer]

I appreciate the constructive feedback; it has helped confirm my suspicion that the deck is too unfocused. I'll try to address all counter-points.

@rockout:

Yes you can 2 for 1 them if you have EE, and if they don’t have Force, because you’re not winning a counter-war when they have CB. And if they don’t have Stifle. They have 7-8 cards to answer 1-3 EE that you better pray you have. Otherwise, you’re looking 1/3 – 1/2 dead cards in your deck, trying to find an answer in 4 to 5 turns.

I also have a hard time dropping Standstill if they lead with Top, mostly if they run manlands/Wasteland. Aside from the card selection it provides, with a fetch they get to see 6 cards to your 1. I don’t like my chances of winning a manland/wasteland battle in this situation. Against Thresh, your point is valid, drop it and draw off it even in the face of Top (although, do you find that your 3 random cards are better than their choice of 3 out of 5 or 8 that they’ve selected while waiting to break standstill?), but against decks like Dreadstill with Top on the table forget about it, you probably just Ancestralled your opponent. Also, I’d be curious to know if you’d lay down a Standstill in the face of Top + Confidant. I don’t think I would.

@3duece:

I’m not sure what color splashes have to do with running Counterbalance. That aside, Crucible and Elspeth have to come down before Standstill for it to be effective. If you have favorable board position against Merfolk turn 4 or 5, well, it must be nice. Merfolk also runs 4 manlands and 4 wastelands. While this is the ideal config for Landstill, it’s usually not feasible. Decree is the only trump card Landstill runs under Standstill. And my larger point was that you need to get to favorable board position BEFORE you can start thinking about the ways you can operate under Standstill.

@Spur Grappler

Probasco’s 2nd place GP list had 8 cards that flip for 2, 4 Goyf and 4 CB. I realize my count is low, Spell Snare tries to shore up that weakness, which is why I’d like to add a third.

The 4 casting cost cards are game breakers, and dodge opposing CBs despite being lackluster when flipping for CB. Regardless, for one card to shut off even the one-drops your opponent is trying to play is pretty valuable in my eyes. It’s a one-sided Chalice at the very worst, and it doesn’t have to be a pseudo-hard lock like it is in Thresh because you have other answers to their threats.

I see Counterbalance as an answer, and Standstill as giving you three cards that you hope contain an answer. I admit that this is probably the wrong mental approach for Landstill, so take that for what it’s worth.

Lastly, Counterbalance is not a bomb in this deck like it is in Thresh. It supplements the control strategies of the deck. It improves otherwise difficult matchups like Burn and Combo and is almost always a lightning rod for your opponents Grips, clearing the way for bombs like Humility or Crucible.

On Brainstorm, I simply can’t fit it. I’d have to cut another 1cc card and the rest are too powerful.

I think -2 Jace +2 Standstill is the next step here. They both serve the same purpose (card advantage), but Standstill is tutorable and flips for 2, which combined outweigh the potential perils I’ve discussed, as Jace has an equal potential to be an awful topdeck. Thanks for the input from all.

[3duece]

@3duece:

I’m not sure what color splashes have to do with running Counterbalance. That aside, Crucible and Elspeth have to come down before Standstill for it to be effective. If you have favorable board position against Merfolk turn 4 or 5, well, it must be nice. Merfolk also runs 4 manlands and 4 wastelands. While this is the ideal config for Landstill, it’s usually not feasible. Decree is the only trump card Landstill runs under Standstill. And my larger point was that you need to get to favorable board position BEFORE you can start thinking about the ways you can operate under Standstill.

The color splashes have alot to do with running counterbalance, largely because four color runs deed and less white bombs which forces the mana curve much lower. Think about it, no more wrath, elspeth, decree or humility, plus four 3cc cards, plus loam over crucible, creates a much nicer curve for counterbalance. That's why itf, vorosh and some 4c landstill builds run it but most 3c w/white builds can't support it.

You're second assumption is absolutely incorrect, crucible or elspeth do not have to be down before standstill in the merfolk match. Turn one ee on 1 and turn two standstill is fine. Hell, alot of the time standstill with one factory is fine as you're likely to draw into more factories/dust bowl over the course of a couple turns, especially if you run top and some fetches. Seriously, you're overthinking things. Yes, you will (very occasionally) have to crack a standstill yourself. It happens, it's happened since the inception of this deck. You know why standstill works better in this deck than merfolk? Because if nothing else, we get to build our manabase up which is very important for this deck, where merfolk can function just fine on one or two land. I'll take a couple mutavault swings to stop the further playing of spells while I make land drops, it's completely worth it. Remember, if you win at 1 life, you still win.

[slaiter]

My list:

/Lands
4 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
3 Island
1 Plains
1 Academy Ruins
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
1 Tolaria West
1 Wasteland
/24

//Creatures
1 Eternal Dragon
//1

//Spells
4 Brainstorm
3 Counterspell
4 Enlightened Tutor
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Wrath of God
4 Standstill
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Moat
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Vedalken Shackles
2 Decree of Justice
//35


Suggestions?
Counterballance is necessary or not?

[Ch@os]

My list:

/Lands
4 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
3 Island
1 Plains
1 Academy Ruins
4 Mishra's Factory
4 Tundra
1 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
1 Tolaria West
1 Wasteland
/24

//Creatures
1 Eternal Dragon
//1

//Spells
4 Brainstorm
3 Counterspell
4 Enlightened Tutor
4 Force of Will
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Wrath of God
4 Standstill
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Moat
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Vedalken Shackles
2 Decree of Justice
//35


Suggestions?
Counterballance is necessary or not?

Looks like some older LS lists:

http://www.deckcheck.net/deck.php?id=12420

[3duece]

Hey, I like that list a lot. That's like zvi's old list. Fit in a single counterbalance if you can, but it's not a make-or-break situation.

[rockout]

Also, I’d be curious to know if you’d lay down a Standstill in the face of Top + Confidant. I don’t think I would.

Yes, I would. Pretty sure I won those matches.