[Deck] UW(x) Landstill

[FoolofaTook]

Also I don't see a reason why adding red means you have to include burning wish? The Red enables bombs like REB/Fire'n'ice/Ajani Vengeant.

It's kind of hard to imagine that adding Burning Wish, if you were to splash red, wouldn't be an excellent move for a deck that is brilliant at drawing things out until enough mana has been built up to really abuse tutorable sorceries.

The main deck uses of Burning Wish would basically be to allow more flexibility in the build. If you were 4c (no green) you'd be able to put a Wrath of God and a Vindicate in the sideboard as an example, with Burning Wish being some flex for you at the cost of a turn sometimes. Add Banefire and Rolling Earthquake (fast token destruction) to the sideboard and you've probably helped the deck overall given that drawing Wrath of God when you want Vindicate and vice-versa can be tough to manage at times. If you went 4c (no black) then you've got Wrath of God and Life from the Loam in the sideboard alongside Banefire and either Rolling Earthquake or Firespout. It just seems like a win-win in a 4c deck.

In a 3c deck without black or green I'm not sure it's such a good play. Stashing a Wrath of God (or 2 if you wanted access to 4) without another narrow staple sorcery alongside it makes Burning Wish kind of narrow, although the ability to go get Rolling Earthquake against tokens or Banefire to finish would still be there.

[Jak]

Burning Wish is surprisingly good. It can grab a win condition (Telemin Performance, Decree, Banefire) or Removal (Pyroclasm, Wrath, Terashi's Grasp) or draw (Deep Anal, Compulsive Research). It is pretty damn good.

[GGoober]

I agree with FoaT although I think Glittering Wish maybe a better option in 4c Landstill (UBGw) allowing you to wish for Vindicate/Pulse/Deeds for board answers. I still dislike sorcery-speed tutors. I like the element of surprise. Burning Wish's only application are in decks where they go Wish and play a spell on the same turn i.e. aggro loam, combo. Giving the opponent a turn to answer your threat isn't good and I much prefer to use Cunning Wish, since you can do it in response to a spell/ability on stack, whereas burning wish doesn't offer that.

Although if you do wish and play out your spell, that's fine, but it will cost a lot, and run into problems where you die to Daze due to wanting to play out everything in that turn. I think I have to test it though, and shouldn't dismiss it yet, but experience with Cunning Wish tells me the importance of instant-speed answers in Landstill (which is even more crucial after drawing cards off a Standstill and digging for an answer e.g. FOW).

[FoolofaTook]

I'm actually getting a minor rise out of the thought of an FoF into Burning Wish. That's like an instant draw 4 unless you turn up 2 of them in which case the opponent probably seizes and drops under the table.

[Shawn]

Also, the prevalence of SDT in the meta means it's easy for your opponent to float bombs on top (Counterbalance/FoF/FoW/etc.), wait until you whiff with your discard, then draw into what they were protecting. Think about counter battles, REB on FoW is straight up back-breaking: 2-for-1 for only

Negate and Counterspell (if you don't have a full set of Counterspells preboard) also help win counter wars and don't push you into red. Also, they can counter other random bombs in the control matchups, like Crucible, and planeswalkers. Yes they cost 2, but counter wars rarely happen early in the mirror. Against Counterbalance thresh, I'd rather bring in something that has other functions than R: counter target Counterbalance or Force of Will, so the fact that Negate and Counterspell are easier to Daze wouldn't worry me if I were to play those out of the sideboard.

Lastly, Engineered Plague is often not enough versus Merfolk.

This is true, but if you manage to keep their Lord effects off the table with a Plague in play, they have to find an Echoing Truth to put you under any sort of pressure. Then, they either need to play a Lord/Reejery or have a Force of Will to counter it. I realize merfolk is a tough matchup, but UW or UWB have just as good or better maindeck and sideboard options for this matchup, and others across the board. Wog accomplishes the same thing as Firespout, is much less narrow, and doesn't force you to fetch off-color duals, which is important in mu's where they attack your manabase. Yes, it is a turn slower, but against any deck besides zoo/sligh it's irrelevant since you play other spells (FOW, CS/Snare, Swords, EE) to slow them down, and against those two decks I board out my Wraths and two Humility as well.

Fire//Ice against Bobs and smaller Goyfs. In the late game, tapping out with Ice can mean a game or two as you beat in.

Fire will almost never kill Goyf. Also, how many times is the tapping a permanent in a game as relevant as being able to kill a threat with a toughness greater than 2? A lot less. In this deck, being able to permanently answer any creature besides Nimble Mongoose (who is seeing less play recently) is much better than 1U Fog, draw. Path to Exile is fantastic, play it if you want more cheap spot removal.

(Landstill does fine against moon, but this makes it much better than UWb for example, which causes many cards to be dead).

If landstill does fine against Bloodmoon decks, why does the fact that the red splash is "better" matter? Path to Exile also kills Magus, (unless of course they have a Chalice set at 1) is in color, and doesn't suck against Tarmogoyf. Also, the only times I've lost against Dragon stompy with 3c landstill were when I've punted. If you run a good manabase with plenty of basic lands, you can cast your WW spells, which are fantastic against that deck.

[Taishaku]

@Misplayer
I don't consider those decks to be a bad matchup. Mostly because I am acclimated to an environment where the most popular decks tend to be aggro. But to say that Burning Wish for a Flamespout or Wrath of God is better than just running Flamespout or Wrath of God for these matchups is silly; obviously, Burning Wish will cost you speed due to its sorcery-speed nature, which is a drawback that Cunning Wish does not have.

I have no problem with Red Elemental Blast. I would go far as to say that it's better than Blue Elemental Blast.

I always felt that the splash should play only a supporting role. Building a deck around Burning Wish is not that.

I'm not talking about CounterTop... and how does Bolt remove Bridge From Below? Are we talking about killing your own token or Mishra's Factory? To be honest, I doubt they would care. You're paying 1-2 cards to remove a card that was probably just Dredged into the graveyard for free. I fail to see how Lightning Bolt being better than Swords effects figure into Dread Return.

I was kidding about the URw thing, talking mostly about how it sounds. I did not expect you to entertain it.

The Silver Bullet argument is flawed. If a card like Telemin Performance is so good, why not maindeck it or sideboard it in? I can see the appeal of the versatility, but to say you are not sacrificing is untrue. Your performance against aggro will be slower by the two additional mana necessary to play Burning Wish. More when you throw in Cursecatchers and whatnot.

I don't think Burning Landstill will work. The sorcery-speed drawback is simply too much a sacrifice in speed for a pure control deck in Legacy.

@crz87
If your environment is aggro like mine, stick to white or black. I have 8 Sword effects and 4 Blue Elemental Blast, 7 sources of mass removal, and 2 Humility altogether in my maindeck and sideboard. If black, stick to Engineered Plague, Planar Void, and Extirpate.

I always liked Braid of Fire, but I wonder how it is going to work when mana burn is removed in the M2010 rules. I mean, it works right now thanks to Sensei's Divining Top. Will it be banned? Hmmm...

Against Zoo, remember, Blue Elemental Blast is your friend. Kills everything but Tarmogoyf pretty much. Then the Humility hits the board. xD

@Shawn
I agree. I find Swords much more effective against aggro than burn. A red splash is unnecessary. Black is perhaps the best option, followed by green.

But I disagree on REB. REB is an amazing card. It is even better than Spell Snare in some matchups.

@Misplayer
I disagree. Engineered Plague is enough, provided you make sure a Lord of Atlantis doesn't hit the board.

I think you should cut Counterspell. Your deck does not look geared to find early UU; I mean, at least cut the Wastelands instead of pretending like you have some mana fixers. And the sideboard needs a bit of work.

@crz87
NLU is Next Level Blue, right? I personally cannot readily identify a single stable variant of NLU. Everybody seems to run it as they wish.

But yeah, splashing a tiny bit of red for REB is interesting. I mean, I could try UWgr for kicks. xD

@Jak.
OR you can just play one of those cards in Burning Wish's place and not splash red, thus sparing you the drop in mana consistency and the sacrifice in speed. ^^

@crz87
Glittering Wish sort of suffers from the same problems. I tried that route once. Did not work out well for me.

[gustha]

Just to change subject, has anybody seen this?

Goblin Chieftain 1rr
Creature - Goblin
Haste
Other Goblin creatures you control get +1/+1 and have haste.

Elvish Archdruid 1gg
Creature - Elf Druid
Other Elf creatures you control get +1/+1.
{T}: Add {G} to your mana pool for each Elf you control.

Merfolk Sovereign 1uu
Creature - Merfolk
Other Merfolk creatures you control get +1/+1.
{T}: Target Merfolk creature is unblockable this turn.

While I don't bother too much on the archdruid, and I'm meh about the sovereign, the chieftain ihmo needs some attention... As far as I can see, no good cards for landstill in M10, excpet maybe for:

Planar Cleansing 3www
Sorcery
Destroy all nonland permanents.

(akroma's vengeance that destroys planeswalkers).

[Elfrago]

Akroma's Vengeance costs 4WW. But this deals with Planeswalkers.

[Taishaku]

@gustha
YOU FORGOT GLACIAL FORTRESS! =DDD

Okay, it's not THAT great, given Wasteland and all that, but the art is gorgeous.

BUT... YOU FORGOT SILENCE!!! =DDD

It is strictly better than Orim's Chant for spell-stopping in that it does not target and it stops all players in a multiplayer game! =D

And there's the 3/4 flying Stalking Stones.



Anyhow, is the entire list out yet? Somehow, I feel blue and white control are really getting the short end of the stick. White Weenie looks nice for Standard though. Elite Vanguard and Veteran Armorer AND White Knight AND Stormfront Pegasus AND Honor of the Pure AND Captain of the Watch (a Lord and Siege-Gang in one!), all in the same set??? =O

Oh, and whoever developed Great Sable Stag needs to die. It's the "Knight" that green needed for all these years, coming finally as one creature in an environment where it will not shine because its creature type is ELK.

AND LIGHTNING BOLT? ARE YOU SERIOUS? LIGHTNING FRIKKIN' BOLT?

Oh, and in other news, Grim Monolith is unrestricted in Vintage. Meaning buying my playset while their prices plummeted was worthwhile! =D


We've got plenty of threads on M10, guys. Don't waste your posts on a deck thread. ~NC

[GGoober]

So I decieded to stick to UWb Landstill. Having thought about it, I should win the aggro matchups anyway without red, and control matchup has to be won via card advantage, and I don't want to lose to combo with UWr. This is my list that I'm possibly taking to my meta (ZooZooZoo, Deadguy, maybe merfolks/goyf sligh, aggro loam, Ichorid, ANT, Worb Thresh, Imperial Painter)

4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
1 Scrubland
2 Underground Sea
3 Tundra
2 Island
2 Plains
2 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Academy Ruins

1 Mystical Tutor
4 Brainstorm
4 Standstill
2 Cunning Wish
1 Fact or Fiction

4 Spell Snare
4 Force of Will

3 Engineered Explosives
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Vindicate
2 Wrath of God
1 Humility

2 Decree of Justice
2 Elspeth

SB:
1 Fact or Fiction (for useless wish scenarios)
1 Enlightened Tutor (against aggro, grabbing Still or Humility)
1 Pulse of the Fields (against aggro)
1 Return to Dust (against Painter/Stax/enchantress/random)
1 Path to Exile (against aggro/loam)
2 Extirpate (against combo/Ichorid)
2 Ethersworn Canonist (against combo/Enchantress)
2 Relic (against Goyfs/Tombstalkers/Ichorid)
1 Crucible (against Deadguy/mirror/dreadstill)
3 BEB (against Zoo). I might do a 2/2 BEB/Negate


So far, I've loved Mystical Tutor in Vindicate builds. I dislike the speedstill lists since I feel that it's too aggro-oriented i.e. Diabolic Edict is very narrow, especially since you can't target. Tutor grabs StP/Vindicate/Wrath/FoF/Wish/Decree/!!!!Brainstorm (which is surprisingly useful at times when you need to dig for a land).

I like MTutor more than ETutor in this build, i.e. This is a faster build, having answers with StP/Vindicate/Wrath, which is a hybrid with Wishstill and Speedstill. It's worked out good for me. I used to hate Decree, but with this build, I have a faster gold-fish rate. FoF is so damn broken. I would play with 2 but I really have no space. MTutor as the 2nd FoF is much better in my testing, being able to grab any answer I need.

Just a question, do you usually cycle decree for 3-4 tokens or would you save it for a bigger cycle when your opponent has no board? My experience is to cycle it fast, get some dudes out and answer the rest with StP/EE/Vindicate. The only problem I have with the build is the same with any landstill build i.e. if you don't hit your landdrops consistently, you're really screwed.

That's my optimized list for tomorrow. Any comments help with regards to the meta would be appreciated :)

[Jak]

@Misplayer
I don't consider those decks to be a bad matchup. Mostly because I am acclimated to an environment where the most popular decks tend to be aggro. But to say that Burning Wish for a Flamespout or Wrath of God is better than just running Flamespout or Wrath of God for these matchups is silly; obviously, Burning Wish will cost you speed due to its sorcery-speed nature, which is a drawback that Cunning Wish does not have.

I have no problem with Red Elemental Blast. I would go far as to say that it's better than Blue Elemental Blast.

I always felt that the splash should play only a supporting role. Building a deck around Burning Wish is not that.

I'm not talking about CounterTop... and how does Bolt remove Bridge From Below? Are we talking about killing your own token or Mishra's Factory? To be honest, I doubt they would care. You're paying 1-2 cards to remove a card that was probably just Dredged into the graveyard for free. I fail to see how Lightning Bolt being better than Swords effects figure into Dread Return.

I was kidding about the URw thing, talking mostly about how it sounds. I did not expect you to entertain it.

The Silver Bullet argument is flawed. If a card like Telemin Performance is so good, why not maindeck it or sideboard it in? I can see the appeal of the versatility, but to say you are not sacrificing is untrue. Your performance against aggro will be slower by the two additional mana necessary to play Burning Wish. More when you throw in Cursecatchers and whatnot.

I don't think Burning Landstill will work. The sorcery-speed drawback is simply too much a sacrifice in speed for a pure control deck in Legacy.

@crz87
If your environment is aggro like mine, stick to white or black. I have 8 Sword effects and 4 Blue Elemental Blast, 7 sources of mass removal, and 2 Humility altogether in my maindeck and sideboard. If black, stick to Engineered Plague, Planar Void, and Extirpate.

I always liked Braid of Fire, but I wonder how it is going to work when mana burn is removed in the M2010 rules. I mean, it works right now thanks to Sensei's Divining Top. Will it be banned? Hmmm...

Against Zoo, remember, Blue Elemental Blast is your friend. Kills everything but Tarmogoyf pretty much. Then the Humility hits the board. xD

@Shawn
I agree. I find Swords much more effective against aggro than burn. A red splash is unnecessary. Black is perhaps the best option, followed by green.

But I disagree on REB. REB is an amazing card. It is even better than Spell Snare in some matchups.

@Misplayer
I disagree. Engineered Plague is enough, provided you make sure a Lord of Atlantis doesn't hit the board.

I think you should cut Counterspell. Your deck does not look geared to find early UU; I mean, at least cut the Wastelands instead of pretending like you have some mana fixers. And the sideboard needs a bit of work.

@crz87
NLU is Next Level Blue, right? I personally cannot readily identify a single stable variant of NLU. Everybody seems to run it as they wish.

But yeah, splashing a tiny bit of red for REB is interesting. I mean, I could try UWgr for kicks. xD

@Jak.
OR you can just play one of those cards in Burning Wish's place and not splash red, thus sparing you the drop in mana consistency and the sacrifice in speed. ^^

@crz87
Glittering Wish sort of suffers from the same problems. I tried that route once. Did not work out well for me.

Okay, you seem to misunderstand he role of Burning Wish. The deck isn't built around it. As you can see from the list I threw together, Burning Wish acts as anything I want it to. Do I think it is slow? Yes. Do I think it is worth it? Yes. Going turn 3 Burning Wish--> turn 4 Firespout will win you the game against Merfolk, Elves, and Goblins. Sometimes a Turn 4 Wrath isn't possible because of Wasteland, Stifle, Daze, and Port so having cheap answers actually is faster. The versatility is amazing.

Now, Fire/Ice alongside Swords is amazing against Aggro. Burn is better most of the time because it can two for one and it is cheaper. In my list I was still running plenty of removal MD (4 Swords, 3 EE, 2 Wrath) alongside the Fire/Ice. Plus 3 Burning Wish for access to Wrath Vengeance, etc. The deck doesn't lose out on the removal.

The reason a Wish board is so good is because you can run narrow answers that win you the game. Holding off Tendrils or another Landstill variant long enough o B Wish for Performance will mill their whole library. The card would be terrible against Thresh, Eva Green , Goblins, or any other deck with more than 10 creatures. Even if you did cut the Burning Wishes in my list, you lose 3 Removal spells, 3 Draw spells, and 3 Win Conditions. It can act as all those cards.

Please think about what you are saying. Multiple times in you post you just keep saying, 'Why not run Firespout MD?' or 'If Telemin Performance is soo good, why don't you play it MD?'. It isn't possible without Burning Wish.

[Ectoplasm]

Regarding the post crz87 made, what's the general verdict on the 'speedstill' lists with the heavy black splash for additional removal? Is it even worthwhile since we have PtE now? Playing a zillion edicts seems inferior to just adding 4 more swords.

[GGoober]

I think Vindicate is much more Flexible than Path, although I can see Edicts getting replaced by Path instead of Vindicate. It fits the 3cc slot nice in Speedstill lists.

I'll post results tomorrow if I decided to play this instead of Belcher. If someone plays DStompy, then I won't play Belcher. I think it's much worse for Belcher to fight 3Sphere.dec than for Landstill to fight 3Sphere/Moon.dec :P

[klaus]

Regarding the post crz87 made, what's the general verdict on the 'speedstill' lists with the heavy black splash for additional removal? Is it even worthwhile since we have PtE now? Playing a zillion edicts seems inferior to just adding 4 more swords.

For reference, here's my current list (it's been working just fine for me):

4 Standstill
4 Spell Snare
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Vindicate
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Path to Exile
2 Kitchen Finks
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Sensei’s Divining Top
2 Jace Beleren
2 Elspeth, Knight’s Errant

4 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
4 Tundra
4 Mishra’s Factory
1 Dust Bowl
2 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
2 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Island
-
SB:
4 Engineered Plague
4 Relic of Progenitus
4 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Jace Beleren
1 Kitchen Finks
---

As you see I've cut Smothers and Edicts. This move seemed logical due to a number of reasons: more emphasis on UW = consistency and stability, Spellsnare (Edict/Smother no likey) and the fact 7 Swords alongside 2 EE & 4 Vindicate is more than enough removal most of the time. I really only wish for more against Tribal.dec and that's where those 4 Plagues come in.

I could write several essays on Jace and Finks but they've been discussed at length and were mostly discarded. Talking Speedstill, Finks is still my #1 weapon of choice VS aggro, while Jace is my #1 bomb VS control.
-
Anyway, I'm aware that the Speedstill approach is kind of misleading for the general discussion of topics in this thread since it's got a slightly different concept, which is why I'd suggest to continue the discussion via PM, if there's any interest.

[GGoober]

As promised, here's a report. I decided to play Landstill instead of Belcher and not betray Brainstorm and FOW. So here goes my report. Note the 1MD Mystical Tutor (MTutor). It was golden MVP all day.

(for more information for Houston Legacy, go to http://www.asgardgames.net/forums/in...27.msg2989#new)

Tournament 16: 06/28/09
Top 4:
1st/2nd split: Brian with UBr ANT, Chris Z with UBw Wishstill
3rd: Reed with Burn
4th: Andrew with Dragonstompy

Participants
Jeff - Team America
Brian - UBr ANT
Chris Zhou - UWb Wish-still
Dan - RGw Zoo
Patrick - Tokens bombardment?
Michael - LED Dredge
Reed - Burn
Joey - RGw Zoo
Andrew - Dragonstompy
????? - Red Death???

Who was the last guy?

Landstill is THE deck that I love. I felt so much smoother playing it. Man, it seriously hates out Zoo.

Here's my report for those interested:

DECKLIST:
4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
1 Scrubland
2 Underground Sea
3 Tundra
2 Island
2 Plains
2 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory
1 Academy Ruins

1 Mystical Tutor
4 Brainstorm
4 Standstill
2 Cunning Wish
1 Fact or Fiction

4 Spell Snare
4 Force of Will

3 Engineered Explosives
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Vindicate
2 Wrath of God
1 Humility

2 Decree of Justice
2 Elspeth

SB:
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Pulse of the Fields
1 Return to Dust
2 Path to Exile
2 Extirpate
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Crucible
3 BEB



MATCH 1: Dan with RGw Zoo

Game 1:
He wins the die roll and bolts, drop Nacatl and Goyf which I snared. He swings and Helix me bringing my life total down to 11. I swords Nacatl and he dropped Jitte followed by Helix bringing my life to 8. EOT I MTutor for Wish and proceed to stabilize with Pulse. He drops and equips Pridemage and I wrath the lonely cat. He draws land pass go, EOTFOF:
A) Elspeth
B) Vindicate
B) Standstill
B) Factory
B) Land
I take pile B. He was afraid of Elspeth beats but I think B was the stronger pile since it was card advantage and a beater with Vindicate against his next creature drop (I still have pulse).

Funnily, I topdeck Elspeth and dropped Elspeth and Standstill. He scoops.


Game 2: -1 Snare, -3 Vindicate, +2 Path, +3 BEB
I open with Wasteland, FoF, Standstill, Decree, 2 Plains, Tundra. Very weak hand but I kept it for some stupid reason. I guess I was afraid of missing Landdrops and losing because of it, and I figured that with all the newly boarded hate, I'll have a high chance of drawing them.

Game turned out to be alright as I expected. He plays Lavamancer and I path it, having bad experience with the Red mage. He lands pridemage and I waste Taiga since he didn't drop a land after my path. He gets stuck on no mana and my life went from 18/15/12/8 as 1/1 Ape gets in there with 2/2 cat. I play Elspeth and he plays Lavamancer. I made the mistake by FOF hoping to draw a path/swords/BEB where I should have cycled decree to chump and bought time since I had wish in hand. I wished for pulse next turn but he had Fireblast + REB to protect it.

Game 3: no changes to board
I open with StP, EE, Tundra, Factory, Humility, Standstill, Wish. Strong hand. He plays Nacatl and I StP EOT and drop Standstill. He cracks the still with Teeg (damn!) and I drew into StP which sends Mr T. to the farms. I land Humility not missing a land drop and the game ends there after he overextends and I wrath.


2-1



MATCH 2: Patrick with Tokens bombardment

Game 1:
I had no idea what he was playing as he opened with T1 birds. I guessed Survival/Rock. He lands Goyf while I play out my land drops against a 0/1 Goyf and 0/1 Bird. He plays Fecundity. I was lost. I played Elspeth and he swings in with 1/2 Goyf which I blocked and drew a card off Fecundity. I decided to Vindicate Fecundity before he had some card-draw shenanigan. I make him overextend and get 2 counters on a resolved Jitte before I wrath with him hellbent. I snared Goyfs and proceed to beat with factories, and land Elspeth drawing 2 FOWs as I swing in with 6 damage a turn.


Game 2: -1 Vindicate, -1 Humility, + 2 Path (no idea what he played but extra StP against Goyf is good.)
I kept an iffy hand of 2 Factories, Vindicate, EE, Path, Island, FOW. Topdecked a SS and things get better as he didn't play out anything for 2 turns. I beat with Factory and resolved Elspeth, Decreed and Standstill. His life went from 20/18/12/4.

I played him a couple of games later and realized his deck. It's really interesting. Garruk+Bitterblossom+Thrinax+Fecundity+Jitte+Goblin Bombardment. It made me want to make a deck with Fecundity. That was the one card that I was scared all day long. Card advantage!


4-1





MATCH 3: Draw into Top 4 with Andrew (Dragonstompy)

Playtested a game. It involves me playing against turns 1-2, floating white to StP Magus, letting Bloodmoon resolve after fetchin basic Plains and Island, and blowing up Mauler + Bloodmoon with EE, and Wrathing, StPing all his creatures, and landing Factories to win.

This matchup is not as unfavorable if you can fetch 2 basics. It's just a more troublesome aggro deck, but EE does a lot for the deck. Wish goes for Return to Dust, which is helpful.

5-1-1



MATCH 4: Reed with Burn

Game 1:
I hit myself in the face since I wasn't expecting burn. Worst matchup for Landstill but winnable with Wish-builds. MTutor was MVP all day.

He wins the die roll and goes with Spike + Marauder. My life total drops 20/17/16/13 before I land Standstill. Reed is inexperienced so I had to explain Standstill to him. He seemed not to understand that drawing 3 cards is a good thing as he's cool with Standstill. It was cute. I commented drawing 3 cards is huge. He cracks it with PoP for 4 damage, I'm at 9, then 5, and I wish and pulsed. For the rest of the game, he burned while I pulsed carefully. My life jumped like this:
5/9/6/10/7/3/2/6/14/11/8 and Standstill and his life was going liek 20/17/15/13/11/9/7/5. I'll let you figure what killed him. I believe Factory was involved while Pulsing away.


Game 2: -2 Wrath, -1 Humility, -3 EE, +3 BEB, +2 Extirpate, + 1 Fact (probably should have kept EE against Vortex, forgot about it, but BEB does it)

I open with super strong hate-hand against burn:
FOW, snare, 2 Standstill, MTutor (again, MTutor means Pulse is coming if I can protect it from REB, but apparently he didn't side them in).

He opens with Chain, Lava Spike, Fanatic. I hated but I FOWed fanatic because I needed to land Standstill not risking Fanatic coming in under Standstill and putting my life on danger. So my life went from 20/17/14/13/12/9/8 while I drew 3 off Standstill and laid another Standstill. He had another Fanatic under my Standstill but I played the Standstill since I had decree to cycle and chump. He cracks Standstill with PoP and I snare it, wished for Pulse and did the life dance from 12/9/13/12/9/8/5/9. He tried his best but it wasn't going anywhere as his life went from 20/18/15/10/5/0 (Elspeth was involved).


Comments:
MTutor is enormous. 1 MD felt right. I think 2 might be too much in theory but testing 1MD is golden. I was able to tutor for Cunning Wish for Pulse for the aggro matchups, and tutor for Vindicate for pin-point removal, or Wrath against swarm, or FoF when I needed cards. I really need to play 2 FoF, but the list is very tight at the moment. EE was amazing, and there were no dead cards at all in this build. Humility came down once and was amazing since my Zoo opponent (Dan) didn't expect artifacts/enchantments so didn't board in grips. Honestly, I might take the Humility out and play 2 FoF, and take Enlightened Tutor out in the SB for a free slot.

Pulse is stupidly good against aggro/burn. Against Zoo, they can't counter it, so it's golden. I think UWb does really well against Zoo, Goblins, Red tribal, combo to some extent if you have Negates in the board, and resilient to DStompy. It probably has bad matchups with Merfolks and Vial.deck, but Speedstill list is really strong against aggro. 6 StP effects was good. 8 is overboard since we have 16 ways of dealing with them (2 Wrath, 4 StP, 2 Path, 3 EE, 1 Humility, 3 Vindicate).

I love playing with huge card advantage, and recovering from card loss after removal. I love it when my opponents are hellbent and I have a full 7 card in hand with counter magic and a clear board. I love landstill and I love FoF <3

My list is a hybrid of Speedstill and wish-still so I hope you guys enjoyed the read. Cunning Wish is too valuable in the deck. Pulse saves lives and Return to dust is really strong against Stompy.dec or Stax. I tested a few games against Dredge and surprisingly it wasn't that bad Game 1. You need to FOW the discard, StP the first Ichorid if possible, and wasteland/Vindicate their mana hoping they never get a land, and wait until Cunning Wish for Extirpate on ichorid if you have EE@0 or Extirpate on Bridge if you don't have EE.



@Klaus: I like the new list, looks interesting and I like Kitchen Finks, but maybe it's you but I think there's too much aggro-hate. I would cut to zero paths in the MD, and run 2 Wish. You have 4 Vindicates, 4 StP, 2 EE to deal with aggro. Maybe a Wrathless Landstill is good. Wrath did help clear messy boards for me today, so depending on the meta, if there's tribal/zoo, wrath is better, and i would drop 1 Vindicate and play 2 Wraths, but 3 Path MD is good against aggro (which I boarded in today, total 6 StP effect) but I think dropping them for Game 2/3 is better since you can play better against combo/other non-aggro decks. Landstill can win the aggro matchups easily anyway.

I like 2 Jace. I really want to play them, and they're golden against the mirror or control.

[mossivo1986]

2 plains 1 island is the key to dragon stompy. You achieve this you win, if you don't you need to be able to win through their attrition which can be nearly impossible sometimes.

Team Awesome tried wish vindicate. In all of my testing I found both together to be too clunky. In my testing I found that either path was more playable in the vindicate slot because of efficiency; or that relic was simply better at doing what relic does best; hoze asshats for using their ass-hattery to ass-hat themselves into a better ass-hatting position. This was usually achieved with the power of blue cards like brainstorm and ponder, but sometimes LFTL was used behind this asshatting nonsense.

p.s. Ass-Hat...

[NQN]

Hi there, I played this list in two tournaments this week and went 3-0 and 3-1-1.
// Lands
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
1 [ON] Polluted Delta
1 [A] Underground Sea
1 [U] Scrubland
3 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (2)
4 [B] Tundra
1 [FUT] Tolaria West
1 [TSP] Academy Ruins
3 [A] Island (2)
3 [5E] Plains (1)
1 [MM] Dust Bowl

// Spells
3 [OD] Standstill
4 [MM] Brainstorm
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [AT] Swords to Plowshares
3 [FD] Engineered Explosives
2 [B] Counterspell
2 [SC] Decree of Justice
2 [TE] Humility
4 [DIS] Spell Snare
2 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
2 [JU] Cunning Wish
2 [A] Wrath of God

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [DS] Pulse of the Fields
SB: 1 [MI] Enlightened Tutor
SB: 3 [CFX] Path to Exile
SB: 2 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
SB: 1 [TSP] Return to Dust
SB: 1 [PLC] Extirpate
SB: 1 [10E] Crucible of Worlds
SB: 2 [LRW] Ajani Goldmane
SB: 2 [FNM] Engineered Plague
SB: 1 [4E] Blue Elemental Blast

The list is really good atm and the SB can be changed to whatever you expect. I turned away from Vindicates now because of the low blue count it acquires.(Does anyone need a Playset simchin Vindis?^^)

I lost to Goblins because he got nuts with me don´t playing a spell. The Draw was against Zoo because he killed my Elspeth before the turns were called but I already had Pulse so it was actually a Win for me :/

B2Topic: I like Ajani Vengeant and therefor like the Idea of an Uwrx LS version but I still don´t see why it should be better :/ We make ourselve more vulnerable against CB and Spell Snare and loose the Power of Pulse. Seems meh to me.

nqn


PS: I think I´ll cut TOlaria West. It always sucked in my openers and was never really useful in the past ~5 tournaments. Maybe I go for more basics.

[Waikiki]

For reference, here's my current list (it's been working just fine for me):

<llist>

I find the list very interesting. Only 1 thing bothers me. The blue count has this been a issue for you in the past?

[klaus]

I find the list very interesting. Only 1 thing bothers me. The blue count has this been a issue for you in the past?

Sometimes, yes.
I'm not sure whether upping the blue count would be beneficial, since I'd have to add suboptimial cards. I think 17 U cards is the bare minimum to run with FOW. The list above has 18, which, considering Jace and Standstill provide you with enough CA, are sufficient most of the time.

The only choice that I'd reconsider atm is that 4th Vindicate, which could easily be replaced by CS. But I'm hesitant to do so, since Vindicate is a crucial out against a resolved CB, whereas CS is not really.

[Mark Sun]

Hi there, I played this list in two tournaments this week and went 3-0 and 3-1-1.
<snip>

The list is really good atm and the SB can be changed to whatever you expect. I turned away from Vindicates now because of the low blue count it acquires.(Does anyone need a Playset simchin Vindis?^^)

I lost to Goblins because he got nuts with me don´t playing a spell. The Draw was against Zoo because he killed my Elspeth before the turns were called but I already had Pulse so it was actually a Win for me :/

B2Topic: I like Ajani Vengeant and therefor like the Idea of an Uwrx LS version but I still don´t see why it should be better :/ We make ourselve more vulnerable against CB and Spell Snare and loose the Power of Pulse. Seems meh to me.

nqn


PS: I think I´ll cut TOlaria West. It always sucked in my openers and was never really useful in the past ~5 tournaments. Maybe I go for more basics.

If you're serious about selling the Vindicates, shoot me a PM. I wouldn't mind getting a playset for future use somewhere, probably even add in a Watery Grave (I'm a cheap ass), Smother/Diabolic Edict mixture for a Speedstill variant.

For the deck that I have now (mossivo's shell with my SB), I'm also considering cutting Tolaria West/Dust Bowl for 2x Wasteland. Something about me, or my playstyle where I'm just not gelling with it (I get the same issue with TW in my opener as well). That can't really be fixed :P

I don't see the merit in UWrx Landstill either, but I'm willing to give it a shot.