DTB status

[SMR0079]

Funny how the last few posts have focused on the term linear rather than the data and conclusion that Dredge and Aggro-Loam belong in the DTB forum.

Typical.

[TorpidNinja]

@Sevryn: Your definition of "linear" is non-standard and mostly nonsensical. "Linear" isn't a strategy term; it's a card design term.

I don't see why it can't be both. Regardless of whether you agree or disagree with Sevryn's analysis, provided he's created a sufficient definition for his terminology (and I'm not saying he has - I'm just talking about terminology here) then why not address the definition rather than the term? I mean, there seem to be plenty of players making up words for their on MtG philosophies, so why can't Sevryn jump on the bandwagon?

[Nihil Credo]

I don't see why it can't be both. Regardless of whether you agree or disagree with Sevryn's analysis, provided he's created a sufficient definition for his terminology (and I'm not saying he has - I'm just talking about terminology here) then why not address the definition rather than the term? I mean, there seem to be plenty of players making up words for their on MtG philosophies, so why can't Sevryn jump on the bandwagon?

Because the word "linear" is already taken, of course. If he wants to define a new concept he should pick a word that doesn't already carry a specific meaning for anyone who reads magicthegathering.com.

[Nekrataal]

Funny how the last few posts have focused on the term linear rather than the data and conclusion that Dredge and Aggro-Loam belong in the DTB forum.

Typical.

Who said that Aggro LOam belongs in the DTB ? Not from my conclusions.

[SMR0079]

Who said that Aggro LOam belongs in the DTB ? Not from my conclusions.

Using the top 8 data from the largest 20 Legacy events listed on deckcheck - both Aggro Loam and Dredge meet or exceed the appearance threshold that other current DTB such as Merfolk, ANT, Gobbos, Landstill.

In order of appearance:

20-Thresh 13%
15- Countertop 9%
14- Zoo 9%
13 - Merfolk 8%
13 - Aggro Loam 8%
10 - ANT 6%
9 - Dredge 6%
8 - Gobbos 5%
8 - LAndstill 5%
* Percentages are rounded

I prefer using a metric that looks at large top 8s rather than smaller events or swiss appearance. Otherwise you just have to much variance. Minimally, events should be limited to those with 7 rounds or more, I think the cut off is 67 players? Correct me if I'm wrong on that number.

Interestingly, Threshold is the only deck that had more than 9% reach top 8. You could make an argument to against Dredge, but then you would also have to eliminate Gobbos and Landstill for having lower numbers. Deciding on a 5% cut off is reasonable to me when you account for the formats diversity.

[cdr]

I added a couple of events I had access to onto the T8 thread: http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...d=1#post418923

[Nekrataal]

Using the top 8 data from the largest 20 Legacy events listed on deckcheck - both Aggro Loam and Dredge meet or exceed the appearance threshold that other current DTB such as Merfolk, ANT, Gobbos, Landstill.

In order of appearance:

20-Thresh 13%
15- Countertop 9%
14- Zoo 9%
13 - Merfolk 8%
13 - Aggro Loam 8%
10 - ANT 6%
9 - Dredge 6%
8 - Gobbos 5%
8 - LAndstill 5%
* Percentages are rounded

I prefer using a metric that looks at large top 8s rather than smaller events or swiss appearance. Otherwise you just have to much variance. Minimally, events should be limited to those with 7 rounds or more, I think the cut off is 67 players? Correct me if I'm wrong on that number.

Interestingly, Threshold is the only deck that had more than 9% reach top 8. You could make an argument to against Dredge, but then you would also have to eliminate Gobbos and Landstill for having lower numbers. Deciding on a 5% cut off is reasonable to me when you account for the formats diversity.

When I do exactly that for the time period I have raw data for I have just 1! Aggro Loam list in the big tourneys in Top 8. My data with tourneys > 60 players:

Dima Game 1K Series - Legacy 05.09.2009
Dragons League Trieste 06.09.2009
Ovino 4, Milan 12.09.2009
Mercadiade 2009 - Legacy 29.09.2009
Master of Geddon II 04.10.2009
DragonsLeague Master of Geddon - Padova 04.10.2009
Bourgoin-Jallieu : Last Chance CdF Legacy 17.10.2009
Finale Coupe de France Legacy 2009 (Bourgoin-Jallieu) 18.10.2009
Alifromcairo Trophy 24.10.2009
The Reckoning 08.11.2009
Lotus Moxen Bazaar Legacy @ Jupiter Games in Vestal, NY 14.11.2009
Iserlohn Legacy Cup 2009 14.11.2009
Legacy Academy Trieste 29.11.2009
Bourgoin Jallieu - Legacy VII 29.11.2009
Year-end Legacy Manila 2009 19.12.2009

However after discussion with more ppl here in my playgroup I think that the DBT status should be done on different levels like shorter and longer time periods or smaller and bigger tourneys. All these results may be interesting a may be different AND valid. Since this is tiresome to do via Excel only a database driven application can help here ;) Would be great to get access to the deckcheck data.

[Nekrataal]

Using the top 8 data from the largest 20 Legacy events listed on deckcheck - both Aggro Loam and Dredge meet or exceed the appearance threshold that other current DTB such as Merfolk, ANT, Gobbos, Landstill.

In order of appearance:

20-Thresh 13%
15- Countertop 9%
14- Zoo 9%
13 - Merfolk 8%
13 - Aggro Loam 8%
10 - ANT 6%
9 - Dredge 6%
8 - Gobbos 5%
8 - LAndstill 5%
* Percentages are rounded

I prefer using a metric that looks at large top 8s rather than smaller events or swiss appearance. Otherwise you just have to much variance. Minimally, events should be limited to those with 7 rounds or more, I think the cut off is 67 players? Correct me if I'm wrong on that number.

Interestingly, Threshold is the only deck that had more than 9% reach top 8. You could make an argument to against Dredge, but then you would also have to eliminate Gobbos and Landstill for having lower numbers. Deciding on a 5% cut off is reasonable to me when you account for the formats diversity.

When I do exactly that for the time period I have raw data for I have just 1! Aggro Loam list in the big tourneys in Top 8. My data with tourneys > 60 players:

Dima Game 1K Series - Legacy 05.09.2009
Dragons League Trieste 06.09.2009
Ovino 4, Milan 12.09.2009
Mercadiade 2009 - Legacy 29.09.2009
Master of Geddon II 04.10.2009
DragonsLeague Master of Geddon - Padova 04.10.2009
Bourgoin-Jallieu : Last Chance CdF Legacy 17.10.2009
Finale Coupe de France Legacy 2009 (Bourgoin-Jallieu) 18.10.2009
Alifromcairo Trophy 24.10.2009
The Reckoning 08.11.2009
Lotus Moxen Bazaar Legacy @ Jupiter Games in Vestal, NY 14.11.2009
Iserlohn Legacy Cup 2009 14.11.2009
Legacy Academy Trieste 29.11.2009
Bourgoin Jallieu - Legacy VII 29.11.2009
Year-end Legacy Manila 2009 19.12.2009

However discussion with more ppl I think that the DBT status should be done on different levels like shorter and longer time periods or smaller and bigger tourneys. Since this is tiresome to do via Excel only a database driven application can help here ;) Would be great to get access to the deckcheck data. Maybe I can use the rss feed to build something up or talk to Evilbernd who runs the site since he lives nearby and I know him from some private tourneys he organized.

[Meister_Kai]

Hate to be an ass, but what is the status on the update? Can we expect it by the end of the month?