I think Mishra's is poor for several reasons. The first is that you are only running 14 black sources which is very low. I'm pretty sure you can't get turn 2 BB with such a low amount of black sources. Mishra and Wasteland have caused you to reduce your black sources which is terrible.Originally Posted by 3eowulf
Yes you are the beatdown vs. Goblins and Zoo. I'm not sure you can play any other role effectively - though your list might be able to.
Contagion removes another card in your hand which may leave you with too few cards in hand. I think Vendetta is very efficient for what it does. Its one mana to kill almost any creature in the format except for a few.
Sometimes it's removal, other it does only coupled with Contagion/Rancid Earth, still it makes combat much more favorable for me.
Although i usually can get BB on turn two, i sometimes struggle i bit to find the third black source. Maybe i should do some testing with more black sources and maybe another threat instead of Factories...
Contagion for free can, if not kill, at least neuter even 2 creatures.
Still i probably wouldn't run it without card drawing. That's why i use Infernal Contract...still no comments about it? I expected a lot of flaming for it's inclusion in a non-combo deck!
“My power is as vast as the plains, my strength is that of mountains. Each wave that crashes upon the shore thunders like blood in my veins.” —Memoirs
Contagion for free can, if not kill, at least neuter even 2 creatures.
Still i probably wouldn't run it without card drawing. That's why i use Infernal Contract...
Infernal Contract is pretty good draw, but I think its probably not playable against aggro. Contract might be better than Confidant in this deck - at least it puts 4 cards in your hand right now.
Looks like we have a common point
Do you have an updated list of your deck? I'd like to make a comparison...
“My power is as vast as the plains, my strength is that of mountains. Each wave that crashes upon the shore thunders like blood in my veins.” —Memoirs
Well its pretty much exactly as ObFreely posted on the last page with the addition of DuressLooks like we have a common point
Do you have an updated list of your deck? I'd like to make a comparison...
//Disruption
4 Duress
4 Hymn To Tourach
4 Sinkhole
//The Legion of Doom
4 Wretched Anurid
4 Nantuko Shade
4 Hypnotic Specter
4 Phyrexian Negator
//Removal
3 Vendetta
4 Diabolic Edict
//Mana
4 Dark Ritual
4 Wasteland
17 Swamps
//Sideboard
4 Infest
3 Dystopia
3 Pithing Needle
3 Chains of Mephistopheles
2 (Metagame slot)
I'm not sure about the sideboard, but that's basically what I ran at the Duel for Duals in February.
Last edited by AnwarA101; 05-17-2006 at 04:20 PM.
Which one removal spell has been cut; 1 Vendetta, or, 1 Diabolic Edict?
Also, what does the sideboard look like?
Maybe an updated list c/w sideboard would be a good idea.
Thanks
Nevermind... I see it above me there now... you must have done it while I was writing mine.
Last edited by worsel; 05-17-2006 at 05:11 PM.
How do you feel playing without card drawing? Wouldn't even Night's Whisper help a little?
“My power is as vast as the plains, my strength is that of mountains. Each wave that crashes upon the shore thunders like blood in my veins.” —Memoirs
This deck is all about tempo. If you are casting Night's Whisper then that means you are not casting a creature or not disrupting them. This deck must do that within the first few turns to survive. Suicide has an awful late game so it must win in the midgame. there will never be a point in time that you would want to cast Night's Whisper because you would want to cast Hymn or Sinkhole first or lay another creature.
Last edited by Krieger; 05-19-2006 at 05:23 PM.
I know it's about tempo, but i also know that while we can achieve a big tempo swing in the early game, in the mid game tempo tends to even out (due to our lack of spells/opponent having better ones).
I'm asking if a draw spell could help keeping the pace in the mid-game (when hymns or sinks are much less useful), sure i wouldn't play it earlier! (that's why not a full set of draw spells, and something that draws instantly and not in the long run like Arena or Bob)
“My power is as vast as the plains, my strength is that of mountains. Each wave that crashes upon the shore thunders like blood in my veins.” —Memoirs
I can’t think of any card that I would want Night's Whisper to replace. If you had Night's Whisper then you would lose a card that is strong and makes it so that you can survive the early game. I would be very hesitant to add it in. If you draw it in the early game it would be just clog up your hand. Against decks like Solidarity it would be as bad as drawing and Edict or Vendetta because if you do not put the right amount of pressure and disruption you will lose. If you could possibly suggest how to fit it in to the list without hurting your game plan please do so.
I'm working on a version of this deck now, I still think it is competent.
4 Black Knight
3 Nantuko Shade
3 Phyrexian Negator
4 Sarcomancy
4 Carnophage
4 Diabolic Edict
4 Dark Confidant
4 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Dark Ritual
4 Wasteland or Mishra's Factory, still deciding.
15 Swamp
The real secret here is Black Knight, which is amazing. I don't know if you'd still call this sui black, but it's aggressive and can kill early, I'm also testing between Vendetta and Snuff Out, maybe cutting something else for more removal.
Last edited by tylerwylie; 04-21-2007 at 09:40 PM. Reason: .
It looks like a Sui Black to me, and this is coming froma guy who played the deck since T2 days and still playing it. I found Theraphy to be better in the decks that runs 8 zombies. Edict is good, but it is not the best removal in the current format, and I'd rather run something like vendetta. I posted a similar deck in development forum couple month ago, it might be helpful.
Anyway, the problem with 8 zombies is that it suck aginst mass removal and goblins. Yes, you do have plague SB, but it does not help you.
She said, "You're broken."
"So is your face." replied the Tarmogoyf.
I sometimes sub out 24 cards from my Vaka Pox deck to make a Sui Black deck for casual play. You can only keep your opponents from going past their first land so many games before they refuse to play the deck for the rest of the day.
It's a lot of fun and a pretty good performer though not as consistent as Vaka Pox...
5 Swamp
4 Scrubland
4 Wasteland
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Polluted Delta
4 Dark Ritual
4 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Sinkhole
4 Vindicate
2 Gerrard's Verdict
2 Swords to Plowshare
3 Rotting Giant
4 Dark Confidant
4 Hypnotic Specter
4 Phyrexian Negator
Dark Confidant might be Nantuko Shade if I had any. I'm also considering making room for some Sarcomancy or additional Swords but I'm fairly sure all of the other cards are very optimal.
I will likely put in Judge Unworthy over Swords once Future Sight comes out.
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If your going to splash white, you might as well add a pair of jotun grunts...
Hi, im going to be playing sui black at the 4x tundra tourney at dragon's lair. My mana base is 18 swamps and 2 wastelands (not including dark ritual). Is it worth it for me to open up my self to wastelands and add 2 urbog, or should i run 1 more wasteland.
Oh and my creature removal is 4x diabolic edict, 2 ghastly demise, and 1 contaigon. Contaigon has been working for me because of its instant speed. Normally ill save it in my hand for the combat phase and contaigon two creatures netting me a extremely better board position. Also sui puts cards in the grave fast enough so ghastly demise has been working for me better then Vendetta.
For removal I run 4 Diabolic Edict 3 Vendetta, Ghastly Demise would work too. I'd run 4 Wasteland, easily if you want, I prefer running 3 Mishra's Factories instead, as it's another beater that can speed up the clock. I also run 2 Cabal Pits as a way to kill pro-black m-fer's.
In my opinion, the only thing that Suicide Black has over Red Death is Diabolic Edict. Although the Edict does not provide reach, it kills otherwise unkillable things (exalted, mongoose, mystic enf, TARMOGOYF, threshed-wearbears, etc).
A funny thing is that the only thing keeping suicide black from being a tier 1, 1.5 deck is reach. I just run out of gas sometimes playing sui-black, and the lucky threshold bastard just top decked a swords to kill my shade while he's sitting at 2 life and I have a handful of disruption. Thats where Red Death comes in, the expensive brother of sui black (estimated 350 dollars to build).
To the guy going to the 4x Tundra tourney:
If you have fetches, chain lightnings and a few badlands (maybe blood crypt) I suggest you play Red Death (go to legacy metagame forum), as it have that "POW" that makes it so much better. Ghastly demise... hmmm.... Whatever, its not that horrible.
At Tyler Wylie: Is 4 pieces of removal enough? I personnally think that you wouldn't want your opponents blocking your guys. Also, wasteland isn't that good without sinkhole to complement it. Just play swamps.
And finnally: NO to the card drawing strat. the only worthwhile CONSIDERATION is dark confidant in place of Anurid. We've probably been through this a million times, but BOB is not that bad in testing. It helps you survive mid-game/late game.
I hate popping up in threads that I haven't completely read, but I did a search and this card received no discussion: since lack of reach is a huge problem for Suicide Black, has Cursed Scroll been considered for the deck? It's slow as hell, but short of a Needle or a Deed there's not much the defender can do to stop it from dealing the final 4-6 points of damage. If you often find yourself just a couple of hits away from killing your opponent, Scroll can be a decent proxy for Red Death's burn spells.
Another option would be to sideboard the Scrolls and bring them in against control and Threshold, to finish them after they've dropped a bunch of 4/4 and removed your creatures (does Threshold keep in Needles against Sui-black? They hit Shade and Wasteland, but Thresh often has Control Magic and Engineered Explosives to bring in).
YOU'RE GIVING ME A TIME MACHINE IN ORDER TO TREAT MY SLEEP DISORDER.
Yes, I have played 2 scrolls in the deck before. I was very satisfied with the results, but I still didn't find that to be enough reach. A few problems with the scroll are:
1) 3 mana is too much because it restricts you from playing threats etc. and pumping shade.
2) 2 damage is too little for 3 mana
3) you need 9 mana to do what 2 mana does in red death
A really, really suicidal (it might work) idea is karvek's Spite lol! its like a fireblast!, but how many do you want in the deck? 4 is overcrowding, and at 2 you might not find it.
Wizards need to make broken black burn spells and more negators for suicide players.
I was thinking to solve this decks problem of lack of reach, instead of splashing red, we could use a small splash for white (not anywhere close to deadguy, something like 4-8 cards). This gives you swords(#1 removal spell printed so far), vindicate if you want, and a better sideboard. I probably wouldnt add anymore then 8 maindeck because it weakens the best card in the deck... dark ritual.
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