[Primer/Deck] Pox

[Hardcore]

That's incredible. Assume it's for Depths?

Yep, Depths is a baaad match - up so I figure it worth trying something wild. Maybe it will work (still untested).

[Claymore]

Thinking back to that heavy Legends deck with 4 chains, would Oppression be able to mimick Chains? The big hit is that it doesn't shut down Brainstorm/Jace, especially late game, but turning all spells into a negative for opponents seems interesting.

[Quitrex]

I think oppression is a fine substitute for chains, especially as long as you have dark rituals in the deck.

[Hardcore]

Not sure about that. If it worked it would be played. It does nothing if players are hellbent.

[Quitrex]

I mean, 'if it worked it would be played' kind of applies to the entirety of this archetype. I acknowledge that chains is likely better in 90+% of situations, especially draw step locking people with sanitarium, but if you don't just have 1400$ to throw at it or a proxy league, I think that oppression is a perfectly fine substitute since it serves a similar purpose of forcing decks to hit their critical mass of spells an honest and very disruptable way.

[kombatkiwi]

For once I agree with Hardcore, the fact that this does nothing to stop your opponent's topdecks makes it awful imo. It helps your opponent to get hellbent and then does nothing once they are so to me it seems more like a budget Liliana than a replacement for Chains.

i.e. Is this card really even better than Necrogen Mists / Bottomless Pit? The general complaint of this deck is "my opponent won because they topdecked their way out of a situation where they had no resources" and Chains helps to solve this problem while the 3 mana enchantments don't

[zenitramleirdag]

It looks like Reid Duke has picked Pox back up on MTGO. His list is very similar to his old builds with Waste Not and Fatal Push as the main new additions to the deck. He's also packing a set of Bobs in the sideboard that actually worked out quite well. It was definitely fun watching him play the deck again, so hopefully he posts some more videos.

https://www.reddit.com/r/MTGLegacy/c...3S&sh=367f3429

he mentioned he's experimenting with some copies of praetors grasp at the side, he said it can get rid of a jace..interesting..
also, no chains and no voids..

[Fjaulnir]

Well yeah he thought you could spend any color of mana to cast it; he thought you could cast the Jace yourself.

Lost Legacy is probably better for this reason (occasionally grabbing a Batterskull doesn't outweigh getting *all* copies of Jace/Show and Tell/...

[zenitramleirdag]

Well yeah he thought you could spend any color of mana to cast it; he thought you could cast the Jace yourself.

Lost Legacy is probably better for this reason (occasionally grabbing a Batterskull doesn't outweigh getting *all* copies of Jace/Show and Tell/...

i agree..the "making your opponent draw" is a bit of a bummer, but its effect can really be back-breaking against some decks..

[OmniStrata]

Thinking back to that heavy Legends deck with 4 chains, would Oppression be able to mimick Chains? The big hit is that it doesn't shut down Brainstorm/Jace, especially late game, but turning all spells into a negative for opponents seems interesting.

My substitute for Chains is currently Underworld Dreams. "But they're nothing alike!" you exclaim. Both cards punish you for drawing out of turn but the Dreams does something the Chains do not. They kill Jace, however, Underworld Dreams does allow them to keep the bonus cards they drew.

The old card I used to screw over top decked luckiness was Uba Mask. At 4 mana it's on the steep side but for top deck wars, drawing it late game is fine. You pretty much guarantee that bonus enemy draws do nothing to you on your turn and you're effectively safe from counter spells and instant spells. It's hilarious if they Brainstorm at end of your turn cause if they draw permanents, they're unusable.

[mykatdied]

I will follow up with the fact that Oppression is not even remotely comparable to Chains. Oppression doesn't punish top deck cantrips when the opponent is hellbent. At least Underworld Dreams turns Brainstorm into a bolt even though they really only draw 1 card. I would definitely play that before Oppression.

The suggestion of Uba Mask is certainly fine if I want that effect, although not easy to cast being 4 mana the plus side of it being 4 mana is that it is immune to abrupt decay which is definitely relevant in this new meta.

Personally I am lost with Pox as of late. I really enjoyed it when I had access to Sensei's Divining Top. I very rarely had less than a 50% win rate once I added it, but now I am quite concerned that the deck doesn't have the top deck power to keep ahead of an opponent. I may continue testing with Liliana, the Last Hope in place or Liliana of the Veil since we need every card more than ever at this point. There is some possibility that the deck should move in a direction of more permanent based cards like Night of Souls' Betrayal, the Abyss etc in order to essentially provide card advantage through repeatable/static abilities. Naturally many of these cards are not budget friendly, but it is better in price than buying dual lands overall.

[Quitrex]

The deck has roughly the same top deck power that put it on the map in Reid's hands in the first place. I'm inclined to think that you still want veil Liliana, since her main purpose hasn't changed at all and she still does everything this deck wants (being both hand control and board control with 3 relevant abilities) it just becomes more critical to recognize when the proper decision is 'do nothing with her.' if I didn't have a wedding this weekend, I would be sleeving something very close to the following list in Vegas.
2 cabal pit
4 mishra's factory
10 swamp
1 the tabernacle at pendrell vale
3 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
4 wasteland
1 nether spirit
1 crucible of worlds
3 cursed scroll
3 dark ritual
1 fatal push
1 grim tutor
4 hymn to tourach
2 innocent blood
4 Liliana of the veil
2 nether void
3 sinkhole
4 smallpox
1 the abyss
4 thoughtseize
2 toxic deluge

1 black sun's zenith
2 chains of Mephistopheles
2 ensnaring bridge
2 extirpate
1 night of souls' betrayal
3 pithing needle
3 surgical extraction
1 the abyss

The current projection is that the legacy meta is very full of storm decks, delved decks, and other decks that are trying to prey on those two (d&t and such) so even if you factor in the large number of people who are just playing the deck that they have, it's entirely likely that a good pox player who finds a list they are comfortable with will do very disgusting things to that field.

[Mr. Safety]

I have a legacy 1K coming up July 1st. This is my list for now, with any suggestions welcome.

2x bloodghast
1x tombstalker
4x dark ritual
4x innocent blood
3x inquisition of kozilek
3x thoughtseize
4x hymn to tourach
4x sinkhole
4x smallpox
1x pox
3x liliana of the veil
1x crucible of worlds
1x black sun's zenith

4x mishra's factory
4x wasteland
1x cabal pit
4x urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
12x swamp

Sideboard
4x engineered plague
3x ratchet bomb
2x surgical extraction
2x nihil spellbomb
1x lost legacy
3x pithing needle


I expect a well developed metagame with tier decks (shardless bug, grixis control, storm, death and taxes, eldrazi, show and tell, delver variants.) My list isn't optimal without Tabernacle, Chains, Abyss, or Nether Void but its the best I can assemble, barring purchasing some small time stuff like Deluge. Underworld Dreams is super affordable if that seems like a good option (mentioned above.) I also have Racksif anyone thinks that is a good direction.

Comments welcome, hope I get some lucky draws and pox the shit out of people.

[beez]

Looks Nasty as Hell. Good luck. They're gonna hate playing you as all Pox players love as one of the great attractions of playing the deck.

[hymnyou]

reid duke streaming pox for CFB

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CIGek9sdVdk

[Mr. Safety]

No joke, I was sleeving up my deck last night and I squeezed in a waste not to test out. I see reid's list and he is also trying it out. We'll see how good it can be. It seems like a good way to break the pox effects in your favor, but it could also do literally nothing. High risk/high gain kind of card.

[Claymore]

Looks like he never cast it and always cut it during board.

His deck seems to struggle with Vial so null rods and Needles seem important (Merfolk, DnT).

[Mr. Safety]

I wouldn't ever leave home without Pithing Needles, that's for sure. In the first 3 matches he continually talks about how bad a resolved Jace TMS is, losing some games because of it. Needle seems like the most efficient answer to that.

Any thoughts on 1-2 Syphon Life or Raven's Crime in the 75? Life would be for burn decks as a repeatable threat while gaining life and pulling out of range. Crime would be a way to continue attacking opponent's hand if Liliana has been killed. I watched Reid do a lot of nothing but drop lands in several games...lands that could have been working to keep his opponent off cards. As a long time 8rack player in modern, Raven's Crime is a crucial card to that decks strategy (because of Rack/Shrieking Affliction.) I'm not advocating Racks (although some use them) I just think a 1-of RC might be useful, possibly over the one-of-fun-of Waste Not.

[OmniStrata]

I wouldn't ever leave home without Pithing Needles, that's for sure. In the first 3 matches he continually talks about how bad a resolved Jace TMS is, losing some games because of it. Needle seems like the most efficient answer to that.

Any thoughts on 1-2 Syphon Life or Raven's Crime in the 75? Life would be for burn decks as a repeatable threat while gaining life and pulling out of range. Crime would be a way to continue attacking opponent's hand if Liliana has been killed. I watched Reid do a lot of nothing but drop lands in several games...lands that could have been working to keep his opponent off cards. As a long time 8rack player in modern, Raven's Crime is a crucial card to that decks strategy (because of Rack/Shrieking Affliction.) I'm not advocating Racks (although some use them) I just think a 1-of RC might be useful, possibly over the one-of-fun-of Waste Not.

Tom Ross's Pox deck used 2 Raven's Crimes [Rack based]. 1 in sideboard. My deck has Syphon Life backed by Crucible. I let Liliana carry the day and don't have space for Raven's Crime. I also pack the Sinkhole set so I'm not too concerned with cards in their hand if I can hammer their mana base down.

[Mr. Safety]

Thanks for that. I am working on getting 1x Crime maindeck (sub for Liliana #4, which I don't have) and 1x Syphon Life in the sideboard. Syphon Life seems like a great way to continue forward progress in grindy matchups (another threat) and a way to potentially get 1-2 time walks against burn (hoping they topdeck horribly lol). I don't see the point in dedicating a ton of space to burn when I may not even face it all day. I think I'll just accept the bad matchup and instead prepare for the blue-based mid-range decks I KNOW I'll face.

Watching Reid's list, he seemed to sideboard out Waste Not in a couple matchups, but I never got to see it actually *do* anything. The three times he actually attempted to cast it they got Force-ed. I don't know how to interpret that...does it mean that if its worth a Force of Will its a good threat? Or does it mean it was really the only reasonable target for Force of Will because everything else accomplishes the two-for one anyways? I'd like to test it anyways. Theory-crafting only gets so far; I need to see if it actually does provide enough value to be worth slots.

EDIT: Raven's Crime also means I'll be testing 1x Dakmor Salvage in the list as well, cutting a swamp (down to 11.) It allows me to Crime-lock my opponent's hand and actually "digs" 2-deep each turn for Bloodghasts.