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Thread: [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

  1. #1

    [Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

    After watching him go to the finals with this deck, I am convinced with proper tweaking (if possible?) this could be the deck to beat. I will easily say that he should have won the Grand Prix, as I for one can't name a deck that wins against Goblins with 1 land out other than 1 land Belcher. For those of you who havent seen it, here is what he ran:

    Lands:
    10 Swamp
    4 Scrubland
    4 Bloodstained Mire
    4 Wasteland
    1 Tainted Field

    Creatures:
    4 Dark Confidant
    4 Hypnotic Specter
    3 Nantuko Shade

    Spells:
    4 Duress
    4 Hymn to Tourach
    4 Sinkhole
    4 Dark Ritual
    4 Vindicate
    2 Gerrard's Verdict
    2 Engineered Plague
    2 Cursed Scroll

    Sideboard:
    4 Withered Wretch
    3 Pithing Needle
    2 Engineered Plague
    2 Darkblast
    2 Swords to Plowshares
    2 Phyrexian Negator



    Sorry if this has been posted beforehand, I've checked through the forums, and saw nothing even mentioning this powerhouse that stormed GP: Philly.

    Edit:Here is Chris Pikula's SCG write up of the GP and his deck. It is quite informative and provides much information not found in this post. - PR
    Quote Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin View Post
    The fairly obvious flaw in your reasoning is that Dark Ritual and Wild Cantor do produce mana. Pretending they don't won't change the function of the cards.

  2. #2

    There are lots of little things I would change about this deck due to my experience playing black disruption with a white splash.

    #1 - Add the 4th shade. He's the one kill method that can kill an opponent singlehandedly and you need kill methods like that so you don't kill yourself faster than your opponent under Confidant. It's also one of the best creatures ever printed, and one of the few that's a bomb early game and late game.

    #2 - I would add one more white source as I always played 10 and occasionally didnt find one. 9 is a little too few when all of them can be destroyed with Wasteland. If Crucible was in here, it would be easier to bounce back. Personally I loved Crucible because of the synergy with fetches and wasteland, and the fact that with Dark Ritual you can occasionally get a turn Crucible/Wasteland lock. I also played 6 fetches instead of the Tainted Field, which would be better if Crucible was in the deck.

    #3 - Swords to Plowshares should probably total 4 between main deck and sideboard. It's a powerful card and your best solution to many troublesome creatures. Darkblast is a good option though, which I haven't tested.

    #4 - Disenchant is usually better than Pithing Needle. It's a better option against some of the more threatening cards this deck could see, such as Scepter/Chant and Worship or Solitary Confinement. Part of the reason is that it can't be Disenchanted itself.

    Now the stuff that I strongly agree with:

    #1 - 4x Engineered Plague between main deck and sideboard. This doesn't only come in vs goblins, but also cards like Grim Lavamancer and Argothian Enchantress. It's really not a bad main deck card and it tested better than Jitte for me. Since this deck only has 11 (should be 12) main deck creatures, Plague is obviously the better option.

    #2 - Gerrard's Verdict. Main deck life gain is always good with Confidant, and there are times when I was not running it that I really wished I had over 4 Hymns in my deck. If these aren't main deck, they should be sideboard.

    #3 - Withered Wretch. Yes, it is good because it takes care of Reanimator and Dredge-a-tog and helps vs. Survival. It's also really handy just to have 4 more threats in your sideboard. These come in against a variety of decks just in place of dead cards.

    #4 - 2x Cursed Scroll. I'm not saying Cursed Scroll is necessarily the best card to run in this slot, but 2 is the right number. Multiples can be really terrible. Scroll is very good though and there needs to be threats in this slot.

    #5 - Dark Confidant. This is card is terribly underrated right now. It really is better than stuff like Phyrexian Arena because it's a good thing that it's a creature. It's also the cheapest one sided howling mine in print I believe, which is amazing. Also, it's a combo with Chains of Mephistopheles (one of my favorite sideboard cards) because only you can get card advantage. Chains wouldn't be a bad SB option since Threshold decks will surely be more popular now.

    These are just my initial thoughts, you can bet I will be testing this deck extensively in the future, so I'll have much more to report later on.

  3. #3
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    This is not a deck to beat. No offense to Pikula or his deckbuilding but this was really the case of Pikula just having a lot of playskill, a little bit of luck, and a little bit of knowledge of the format. I doubt a random player would have been able to pilot this deck to day two, but Pikula had enough skill where he could have won with just about anything. I just can't see this being tier one, or even 1.5, but more the kind of deck that randomly shows up and sometimes can win tournaments.

    Personally, I'd like to see a build with Suppression Field in it. That card rapes so much it'd be worth it to take out cards it hurts (Wasteland and Bloodstained Mire mainly).

  4. #4

    @Darkblast: I watched Pikula use one single Darkblast and one Engineered Plague to take out every goblin on the board-I assume this was a meta choice against the few Gobs that survive Plague, and that makes it a better choice than more StP's.

    @Nantuko Shade: I strongly agree that there should have been a way to fit in a 4th one.

    @Pithing Needle/Disenchant: To be honest with you, I think this was the 'in case I see random crap I need to deal with (tog? disk? dustbowl? fetchlands?)', but I rarely watched him side it in. Plus, 4x Disenchant will mean you'd have to up the White mana sources, and to be completely honest, 8 cards main have one white in them-with 4 ways to get a Scrubland or Swamp, and 1 natural draw, I am convinced the manabase only needs slight tweaking-as you said. Maybe one more Tainted Field? I dislike Caves of Kolios in this deck, especially Running Dark Confidant. If Disenchant is your bag, I highly suggest 2 Null Rod instead, to side out for Scroll. I could be an idiot for saying that though. Speaking of which...

    @Cursed Scroll: I couldn't see another card in this place. A way to deal colorless damage is second to none in a resource denial deck like this, where a White Knight could ruin your day. Also, it greatly helps Darkblast in killing Kird Apes and other 3 toughness beatsticks.

    @Withered Wretch: Don't, I repeat, DON'T forget it stops Crucible of Worlds dead in its tracks.

    @Squirrel: Don't forget, Suppression Field hits Cursed Scroll, Nantuko Shade, Withered Wretch, as well as the lands. 17 cards overall. Is that really better than Pithing Needle? I'd say no.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin View Post
    The fairly obvious flaw in your reasoning is that Dark Ritual and Wild Cantor do produce mana. Pretending they don't won't change the function of the cards.

  5. #5
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    @Squirrel: Don't forget, Suppression Field hits Cursed Scroll, Nantuko Shade, Withered Wretch, as well as the lands. 17 cards overall. Is that really better than Pithing Needle? I'd say no.
    Oh, I see I missed some cards. Nevermind then, that was just my ridiculous obsession with Suppression Field coming out again.

  6. #6
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    ...You act like this build has never been played before.

    This was the Original, ORIGINAL Amazing Results deck made by DaveDude 6 monthes ago with tiny tweaks. B/w Sui is FAR from DTB. Dark Confident makes it good, but it's still not amazing.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by troopatroop
    ...You act like this build has never been played before.

    This was the Original, ORIGINAL Amazing Results deck made by DaveDude 6 monthes ago with tiny tweaks. B/w Sui is FAR from DTB. Dark Confident makes it good, but it's still not amazing.
    OMG! Troopa... you may be correct to some extent. Except Dave's build was horrible and supported by make believe test results. Unfortunately, I think some jerk deleted Dave's original thread.
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  8. #8

    @Troopa: To my knowledge, I had never seen the deck before, sorry for my ignorance. The builds are different, however. And for some reason, this build stomps Goblins, Gro, and has a favorable matchup against Lanstill of all forms due to the resource denial/advantage.

    @Cynical Squirrel: It's quite alright. I'm obsessed with Suppression Field too. I just don't believe that it would be able to take the place of Needle in this deck's sideboard.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin View Post
    The fairly obvious flaw in your reasoning is that Dark Ritual and Wild Cantor do produce mana. Pretending they don't won't change the function of the cards.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by troopatroop
    ...You act like this build has never been played before.
    If it didn't have Confidant in it, no one has played this deck before. About a year ago I had a build roughly 8 cards off Pikula's maindeck. It was good, but not truly viable. Confidant is the missing piece to the puzzle. Recurring card draw is incredibly strong, and helps solve the deck's original consistency issues. The fact that it's also a beatstick is a huge boon also. Confidant alone makes the deck powerful rather than just playable.

  10. #10
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    Yeah, comparing this to whatever bad B/W aggro-control deck you tried to play two years ago is way off base. You might as well compare Black Crusade to old school Necro. +4 Ridiculously Busted card >>>>> -4 Ridiculously Busted Card. By leaps and bounds.


    Edit: Note that that was in general, not directed at Zilla.

    The deck's also not suicide, dammit.

    Personally, I'm looking forward to exploring the archetype, not least because of all the fun I have planned in naming each tweak. You can cut the White to get Deadguy Black Lager, add Red to get Deadguy Cranberry Ale. I'll probably think of a dozen more later. The possibilities are nearly limitless.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssasin
    I'm looking forward to exploring the archetype, not least because of all the fun I have planned in naming each tweak. You can cut the White to get Deadguy Black Lager, add Red to get Deadguy Cranberry Ale.
    I wish pikula had named the deck Evil Dead.

    It already has a boom-stick, cursed scroll. Or would cursed scroll be the necronomicon?
    Belcher, RUG Delver, Death & Taxes, Colorless Eldrazi, Goblins

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  12. #12

    I wonder if he tested Burning Wishes in his deck as a means to get more expensive cards and fetch some pyroclasms. I am almost positive he has to have, so I guess my question is what were his results and why did he go with white?

    Lightning bolt, for all intents and purposes, is a dumbed down StP. You do lose Vindicate, which is a huge loss but I dont know. Red offers soo many goodies.

  13. #13
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    The red splash would be terrible. Black needs that disenchant; as well as other relevant things. Also, burning wish would be far too slow. If discussion continues on supression field, you can sub (these are testing suggestions, I'll get around to them for myself eventually) nantuko shade for black knight. He dodges swords, has first strike, and a power of two. He owns white weenies and essentially removes every relevant goblin. Also, I know its terrible under supression field, but could umezawa's jitte be maybe worked in as a two of, or is it too high on the curve after equip costs come into play?
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    Quote Originally Posted by laststepdown
    @Withered Wretch: Don't, I repeat, DON'T forget it stops Crucible of Worlds dead in its tracks.
    Well, not exactly. If you give him any kind of priority, he'll be able to play lands from the crucible still.

    Also, I think he needs jitte in here somewhere. He doesn't have the mana to necessarily equip it, or the mana to even cast it, but jitte is still a powerhouse, and late game your mana will free up. i could definately see the scrolls being cut for jittes, especially since you have beaters that they almost have to block (hippies, and they WILL wnat to block your confidants)

  15. #15

    I think it's probably fair to assume that Pikula didn't play Plague Spitter or Pyroclasm (and therefore, Burning Wish) because he was leaning on card advantage in the Goblins matchup. If you kill your own creatures (all of which can generate extremely high card advantage given time), you'll probably lose. He'd have had to include larger creatures, and that would have sucked against everything else.

    That said, who the hell plays Gerard's Verdict? I would test out Cabal Therapy, to some extent, if you're a good player with a defined metagame.

  16. #16

    Running equipment in a deck with 11 creatures and only four cards to draw for more does not seem like a terrible good idea to me. I played the deck for a few hours yesterday, and I can say so much that it is actually a challenging deck to play - especialy during the first four turns, where you often have several options.

    (This is my first post on The Source and will post an introduction in the introduction thread asap)

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by martyr
    That said, who the hell plays Gerard's Verdict?
    People who like 2 for 1's.

    Also read as people who like pitching dead lands to gain life when their main draw engine tends to hurt them.

    I have tested and played the deck some games against Zilla, and I'm not sure this whole "Stuff Jitte into every deck with creatures evaR!" stigma that everyone seems to have works all the time. You have 11 Creatures... I'll repeat that. You have 11 creatures.... The deck wants to be disrupting and drawing and disrupting, not tapping out turn 4 to Jitte-equip it's Confidant or Hyppie.




    Edited By CorruptedAngel on 1132177576
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  18. #18

    I agree... that Jitte is not a neccessary auto inclusion in every deck supporting creatures. Decks such as AS can support it really well due to First Strike and Shadow and Protection from Mother. This deck wants to dedicate its mana into the Shade or actively ripping the other guy's hand apart, Jitte plays very little role in supporting that strategy.

    Verdict in conjucntion with Hymn is very deadly, actually. All these two for one card advantage eventually adds up, to a point where he's holding 7 cards in hand and still has a Hymn left while the other guy's playing off the top of his library. The lifegain CorruptedAngel mentioned is very important as well. The Dark Confidant hurts very much when ripping a E.Plague off the top. :D
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  19. #19

    Quote Originally Posted by effang
    Well, not exactly. If you give him any kind of priority, he'll be able to play lands from the crucible still.
    As long as you get rid of the 4 lands(IMO they are Wasteland, Mishra's Factory, Faerie Conclave, and Dustbowl) that can be a threat, when they get discarded/killed, you can remove them from game. During your turn, or during his upkeep/draw step, even during his main phase. Why am I telling you this? You should know this. I think it's a selective, reusable Phyrexian Furnace-but it has legs. It's a great drop against aggro decks, and against Crucible-abusing decks.

    Quote Originally Posted by effang
    Also, I think he needs jitte in here somewhere.
    What? Is this the magicthegathering.com message boards? What would you take out for it? More importantly, what 10 creatures would you put in? This isn't the proper archetype for equipment of any kind-it's resource denial. This format is Legacy-for the most part, equipment is too slow.
    Quote Originally Posted by TheInfamousBearAssassin View Post
    The fairly obvious flaw in your reasoning is that Dark Ritual and Wild Cantor do produce mana. Pretending they don't won't change the function of the cards.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by laststepdown
    Quote Originally Posted by effang
    Well, not exactly. If you give him any kind of priority, he'll be able to play lands from the crucible still.
    As long as you get rid of the 4 lands(IMO they are Wasteland, Mishra's Factory, Faerie Conclave, and Dustbowl) that can be a threat, when they get discarded/killed, you can remove them from game. During your turn, or during his upkeep/draw step, even during his main phase. Why am I telling you this? You should know this. I think it's a selective, reusable Phyrexian Furnace-but it has legs. It's a great drop against aggro decks, and against Crucible-abusing decks.

    Quote Originally Posted by effang
    Also, I think he needs jitte in here somewhere.
    What? Is this the magicthegathering.com message boards? What would you take out for it? More importantly, what 10 creatures would you put in? This isn't the proper archetype for equipment of any kind-it's resource denial. This format is Legacy-for the most part, equipment is too slow.
    I never said run the 4x full set. It could replace the cursed scrolls, like i mentioned. cursed scroll is late game, jitte is late game, jitte can get you life in a pinch.

    2x cursed scrolls for 2x jitte. try it first before you critisize. i know he's only running 11 creatures, what's your point? 4 of those fly, 4 of those are must kills for the opponent, IE must blocks, seems pretty good if i want to get some counters on my jitte.

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