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Thread: The current state of Magic

  1. #901

    Re: The current state of Magic

    What happens if they change the card back? Can they finally get the Reserved List white whale, or would the card back just be the signal of the end as the game collapses and burns to the ground?
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  2. #902

    Re: The current state of Magic

    Quote Originally Posted by Matsu View Post
    Can someone clarify Pokemon Online, maybe I do not understand it properly?
    The key thing that Pokemon does, that almost every other TCG with a paper presence doesn't is unify card packs. So, for every Pokemon booster you buy, you can enter the code and obtain that particular pack. Those online cards can then be traded in-game for cards that you need etc.

    Now, don't get me wrong - I have issues with the way that TCG plays, but they have the online experience absolutely spot-on. The Professor over at TCC had a video where he changed mid-stream from MTGO to the Pokemon TCG, and sent it to the guys over at Wizards.

    This is absolutely on Hasbro and Wizards, and it would be a shame to see the game die because the companies couldn't embrace the online game variants.

  3. #903
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    Re: The current state of Magic

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkenslight View Post
    The key thing that Pokemon does, that almost every other TCG with a paper presence doesn't is unify card packs. So, for every Pokemon booster you buy, you can enter the code and obtain that particular pack. Those online cards can then be traded in-game for cards that you need etc.

    Now, don't get me wrong - I have issues with the way that TCG plays, but they have the online experience absolutely spot-on. The Professor over at TCC had a video where he changed mid-stream from MTGO to the Pokemon TCG, and sent it to the guys over at Wizards.

    This is absolutely on Hasbro and Wizards, and it would be a shame to see the game die because the companies couldn't embrace the online game variants.
    You get another booster pack with the codes, but not the same pack.

  4. #904

    Re: The current state of Magic

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahab View Post
    You get another booster pack with the codes, but not the same pack.
    Depends on exactly how someone is defining "the same pack." If they mean "the same pack" as in you'll get a booster pack from the same set, then yes (e.g. a code from a Guardians Rising pack will get you a virtual Guardians Rising booster). If they mean the same pack as in the contents will be exactly the same, then no, because they're randomized for booster packs.

    Though if you buy a non-randomized product, like a theme deck, the code in that product will give you the exact same virtual cards as found in that product.

  5. #905

    Re: The current state of Magic

    The online Pokemon TCG is actually pretty good
    The only downsides are from like a hardcore grinder point of view (and this is just my understanding, I could be wrong about these):
    - I don't think you can really profit off of it (e.g. if you are really good at MODO you can sell surplus tix/chests to people, I don't think there is any pokemon equivalent of this because the prize product is locked to your account
    - There is no pokemon Online Championships / PTQ / Worlds-slot equivalent (i.e. it doesn't have any tie-in with the real-life game, which compounds the above point)

    In terms of bugs I think all the cards work properly (it's a much more simple game than MTG, no action on the opponent's turn etc) but I have seen the occasional lockup/freeze/crash on streams and I think you have to abandon the game when that happens (it's not like MTGO where you can reconnect to the gamestate you were at)

    Otherwise all the aesthetics and functionality are solid (but again, worth repeating that it is a much more simple game than MTG for getting it to work properly, and I have no idea about the economy comparisons because I have never considered seriously getting into PTCGO, but the pack-redemption thing seems like a no-brainer good idea)

  6. #906
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    Re: The current state of Magic

    Maybe this has been discussed before, but I didn't see it when searching the threads:

    I'm assuming the RL isn't going anywhere for a variety of reasons. I'm also assuming Wizards is not going to do things like print better versions of RL cards. I'm further assuming that basically every creative workaround to printing RL cards or removing the policy itself is off the table.

    Given this, why not advocate for an X+ "proxy" Legacy? And by "proxy," I really am just shorthanding "playtest card" per Wizards' definition (https://magic.wizards.com/en/article...ion-2016-01-14). I am 100% not referring to fakes, counterfeits, or other similar cards. This Legacy playtest card allowance would enable players to enjoy the format and slowly build decks while not worrying about the most expensive, non-reprintable cards. This would not violate any element of the RL and would simply require a modification of tournament rules to allow X+ playtest cards in Legacy decks. Has anyone pushed for this and found pushback from Wizards? Conflicts with policies that can't be resolved? A policy like this might lead to some secondary issues with the value of RL cards, an increase in counterfeits who are capitalizing on a reinvigorated Legacy, etc. But these secondary issues aren't necessarily strikes against the primary policy change of allowing playtest cards in Legacy decks.

  7. #907

    Re: The current state of Magic

    Quote Originally Posted by ktkenshinx View Post
    Maybe this has been discussed before, but I didn't see it when searching the threads:

    I'm assuming the RL isn't going anywhere for a variety of reasons. I'm also assuming Wizards is not going to do things like print better versions of RL cards. I'm further assuming that basically every creative workaround to printing RL cards or removing the policy itself is off the table.

    Given this, why not advocate for an X+ "proxy" Legacy? And by "proxy," I really am just shorthanding "playtest card" per Wizards' definition (https://magic.wizards.com/en/article...ion-2016-01-14). I am 100% not referring to fakes, counterfeits, or other similar cards. This Legacy playtest card allowance would enable players to enjoy the format and slowly build decks while not worrying about the most expensive, non-reprintable cards. This would not violate any element of the RL and would simply require a modification of tournament rules to allow X+ playtest cards in Legacy decks. Has anyone pushed for this and found pushback from Wizards? Conflicts with policies that can't be resolved? A policy like this might lead to some secondary issues with the value of RL cards, an increase in counterfeits who are capitalizing on a reinvigorated Legacy, etc. But these secondary issues aren't necessarily strikes against the primary policy change of allowing playtest cards in Legacy decks.
    It doesn't appear to be in the interest of WotC to allow proxy cards in sanctioned tournaments
    Perhaps it would be appealing to them in that it would enable more people to play magic (legacy/vintage) thereby potentially creating demand for non-RL cards

    I think the tournament logistics of this would be extremely unappealing
    Like if you just have a sharpied basic then it looks shit on coverage and it can also be hard for players to follow what's going on (fuck your handwriting)
    But if you have a printout of the entire card face and sleeve it then you have to be concerned about each sleeved card being marked for having different thicknesses etc

    The funniest shit would be if the loophole actually is:
    -> Here is a bunch of gold bordered power and duals, not breaking the reserved list because not tournament legal btw
    -> Oh by the way proxy cards now legal in tournaments if you use opaque sleeves or w/e

    But I can't see that ever happening

  8. #908

    Re: The current state of Magic

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahab View Post
    You get another booster pack with the codes, but not the same pack.
    Yeah, I should have been clearer that it's the same set rather than an individual pack.

  9. #909

    Re: The current state of Magic

    I think WOTC would make a new non-rl Legacy format before they allow proxies.

  10. #910
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    Re: The current state of Magic

    Quote Originally Posted by Von View Post
    I think WOTC would make a new non-rl Legacy format before they allow proxies.
    Yeah, maybe even call it something smart, like Vintage? J/K, I know what you meant. The only real option for a non-RL legacy format, one that would get the amount of support it needs to thrive, would be so close to Modern that I think it might falter heavily. There are already format variants that allow for a different card pool that plays on a different spin on set choices: 92/93, Pauper, EDH, Tiny Leaders, and even a newer variant I just heard about called pre-Modern (only sets pre-8th edition, I think with Legacy banlist.)

    Watching which formats have been successful due to community support, I'm fairly certain Modern and EDH will eventually supercede Legacy, causing it to go the way of Vintage.

    Look at the bright side, if Legacy becomes like Vintage all of us old dudes can get together, drink whiskey, and smoke cigars while we play the gentleman's format. Like an MtG speak-easy.
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    Re: The current state of Magic

    I honestly feel if Wizards ever started looking at supporting Pauper that format would take over. It's (relatively) cheep, it's full of busted cards and it has a great identity.
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  12. #912
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    Re: The current state of Magic

    Quote Originally Posted by Dice_Box View Post
    I honestly feel if Wizards ever started looking at supporting Pauper that format would take over. It's (relatively) cheep, it's full of busted cards and it has a great identity.
    Yeah, and the fact that it doesn't have planeswalkers makes it feel a little like how old magic used to in the days before Jace.

  13. #913
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    Re: The current state of Magic

    Quote Originally Posted by Dice_Box View Post
    I honestly feel if Wizards ever started looking at supporting Pauper that format would take over. It's (relatively) cheep, it's full of busted cards and it has a great identity.
    It's also easy for them to introduce new cards to the format using regular or masters sets. Back when I played a lot of Pauper it seemed like the format got a smattering of new, impactful cards every year with new printings in regular sets or downshifting in the masters sets. That adds up to a lot of novelty and diversity in the top tier.

    The only issue with formal support is the format will get more expensive. I may be misremembering this, but I recall I got about $10 richer right about the time CFB started running Pauper side events at GPs
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    Re: The current state of Magic

    Quote Originally Posted by ktkenshinx View Post
    Given this, why not advocate for an X+ "proxy" Legacy? And by "proxy," I really am just shorthanding "playtest card" per Wizards' definition (https://magic.wizards.com/en/article...ion-2016-01-14). I am 100% not referring to fakes, counterfeits, or other similar cards. This Legacy playtest card allowance would enable players to enjoy the format and slowly build decks while not worrying about the most expensive, non-reprintable cards. This would not violate any element of the RL and would simply require a modification of tournament rules to allow X+ playtest cards in Legacy decks. Has anyone pushed for this and found pushback from Wizards? Conflicts with policies that can't be resolved? A policy like this might lead to some secondary issues with the value of RL cards, an increase in counterfeits who are capitalizing on a reinvigorated Legacy, etc. But these secondary issues aren't necessarily strikes against the primary policy change of allowing playtest cards in Legacy decks.
    Forgive the double post.

    My play group started with unsanctioned tournaments with unlimited proxies to build interest. Some of us went nuts and built full decks right away, for some others it took about a year before they bought in, and the rest are either building very, very slowly, or content to stay with just proxies.

    Those of us with full decks don't really care about playing sanctioned Legacy at the LGS as long as we have an opportunity to play on a regular basis. We look at it as practice for when we travel to other stores in other cities and other states to play in sanctioned tournaments and win bodacious prizes. The bonus to full proxy is it creates a feeling of meta diversity. We get a lot of reps against a lot of different decks week to week because people can play whatever they want.
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  15. #915

    Re: The current state of Magic

    Quote Originally Posted by Dice_Box View Post
    I honestly feel if Wizards ever started looking at supporting Pauper that format would take over. It's (relatively) cheep, it's full of busted cards and it has a great identity.

    Not saying Pauper isn't a good format or anything, but I seem to recall feeling like the mana was super clunky when I tried to play it. Even though the decks have the potential to be cool, it always feels gimped to me, somehow.

    That being said, my brother made a pauper gauntlet that was pretty fun. I don't think it was all meta decks, though.

    Also, I would love to play storm in that format, but alas, it isn't legal...I do like how the banlist is honest about it, though - instead of being oblique and shitty about it like modern, where they ban most of the good cards but inexplicably leave the payoffs legal, pauper just says, "nope, storm cards are banned," which I find admirable, if annoying.

  16. #916
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    Re: The current state of Magic

    Quote Originally Posted by taconaut View Post
    Not saying Pauper isn't a good format or anything, but I seem to recall feeling like the mana was super clunky when I tried to play it. Even though the decks have the potential to be cool, it always feels gimped to me, somehow.

    That being said, my brother made a pauper gauntlet that was pretty fun. I don't think it was all meta decks, though.

    Also, I would love to play storm in that format, but alas, it isn't legal...I do like how the banlist is honest about it, though - instead of being oblique and shitty about it like modern, where they ban most of the good cards but inexplicably leave the payoffs legal, pauper just says, "nope, storm cards are banned," which I find admirable, if annoying.
    The mana *is* super clunky, it's one of the defining characteristics of the format.

    I played Pauper storm when it was legal - it's one of the most fun decks to goldfish, but honestly not too exciting to actually play. Ended up playing Infect and UR Cloudpost Control to get to play actual games where the opponent mattered more.
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    Yeah, an insanely powerful block which put the "derp!" factor in Legacy completely over the top.

  17. #917

    Re: The current state of Magic

    Banning all the Storm cards in Legacy would be great from the perspective of allowing non-blue decks to interact with combo successfully. But to honestly make that happen they'd probably have to ban a bunch of other stuff after that too, that Storm is currently keeping down, so doubt it happens.

  18. #918
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    Re: The current state of Magic

    Quote Originally Posted by kombatkiwi View Post
    It doesn't appear to be in the interest of WotC to allow proxy cards in sanctioned tournaments
    Perhaps it would be appealing to them in that it would enable more people to play magic (legacy/vintage) thereby potentially creating demand for non-RL cards

    I think the tournament logistics of this would be extremely unappealing
    Like if you just have a sharpied basic then it looks shit on coverage and it can also be hard for players to follow what's going on (fuck your handwriting)
    But if you have a printout of the entire card face and sleeve it then you have to be concerned about each sleeved card being marked for having different thicknesses etc

    The funniest shit would be if the loophole actually is:
    -> Here is a bunch of gold bordered power and duals, not breaking the reserved list because not tournament legal btw
    -> Oh by the way proxy cards now legal in tournaments if you use opaque sleeves or w/e

    But I can't see that ever happening
    Making Gold Border and CE legal wouldn't even be that big a deal. I mean we can already play with Delvers and other DFC cards which are essentially the same thing (assuming you don't play with checklist cards, I never have). I feel like simply having alpha cards legal is enough honestly.

    As for the proxy thing, yeah the worst is trying to watch a tourney on stream that allows proxies with just stupid sharpie ones. At least print something out and make a fucking effort. That said, with invocations (which all look the fucking same on camera) being legal who honestly cares at this point?
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  19. #919

    Re: The current state of Magic

    Just read Pete Jahn's "State of the Program" article this week. His opinion section is about Masters 25 and how it's a total crap set and Wizards has it priced too high, and it isn't selling, stores are losing money on it because it's ebay price is 60% of MSRP, etc. etc. etc.

    While this is just Tuesday in MTG world for most of us (WotC is run by incompetent morons at the corporate level and desperately needs to clean house) it's significant because Jahn is a huge apologist/enthusiast for the company. I mean, he actively defended the MTG Arena economy after the NDA dropped, to give you an idea where he stands on the fanboy scale.

    How many more bad quarters do the suits at Hasbro give WotC on this? And what kind of idiocy will they pull to try and "restore profitability"? I'm specifically looking at the super-low quality paper stock they switched to as an example.

  20. #920
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    Re: The current state of Magic

    WotC ignored for more than 10 years the potential of the growing market, which is online gaming, for a physical product, they barely ever bothered to advertise in mainstream media. MTG spreads mainly through mouth to mouth Propaganda and/or if people stumble into one of the local comic/larp/tabletop/etc shops around the globe.

    This is failing in advertising 101 anno 2018 and no one of these analog dinosaurs at WotC or Hasbro is able/willing to hire someone to break open their inbreed structures.

    Seriously, unless you hit "mtg" into google, stumble over their website or right into your local MTG shop, you prolly will never hear about the brand/game or ... god forbid ... try it.

    WotC is literally ONLY fishing customers in their own pool of players, without any serious effort to attract NEW people at all. The last TV commercial of MTG was like 5 years ago.
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